The latest Political Developments of the day and interviews with top newsmakers are featured. The 06day period. This needs to be over with soon. I think its been very bad for the country and were at a point in this inquiry where they can wrap it up. Mayor, i know youve said and i said we want to see this come to closure soon here. Mayor . Yes, we do. Its about time that it ends. I also think and i hope the Special Counsel is sensitive it as we are. We do not want to run into the november elections. So you back up from that, this should be over with by september 1st. I think it needs to end very soon and it needs to end very soon because the nature of whats taking place here is irregular and thats being kind. From lock her up to wrap it up, that sounds like lawyer speak for we might be losing. The latest evolution of their messaging strategy from no dough lugs to collusion isnt really a crime to lets call the whole thing off, we see more signs today mueller is zeroing in on another trump ally, roger stone. Hes being investigated for communicating with russians over stolen emails. He seems likely to become the probes next target. One of his close allies, the monterey madam, testifying before a grand jury in the investigation today while another one of stones allies is being held in Contempt Of Court today for refusing to comply with the judges order to testify, which means hes choosing potential jail time over cooperating with robert mueller. Here to help us understand all the days developments, joips advance, former u. S. Attorney now law professor msnbc contributor, Frank Figliuzzi former assistant director for Counter Intelligence at the fbi and msnbc contributor. On set with Us White House reporter from the Washington PostAshley Parker and correspondent for the north county times. Joyce, let me start with you and the machinations of this for a nonlawyer and someone outside this court, it seems like a bizarre, bizarre trial with a very interesting character as a judge. Tell us what it means that they were on pause for so long, do we know what they were doing and what are the scenarios for what could have been going on. We dont know exactly what was going on, but this really isnt at all unusual for a tl l trial. Sometimes when you get to this point and even earlier on in a case, issues can come up. There can be the need for a lot of back and forth between the judge and the lawyers as they sort out legal issues. And sometimes you can see juries either sitting in a courtroom or back in the jury room wondering what the delay is about because the judge doesnt necessarily share it with them either if its purely a legal issue about admissible evidence. Here we had a little bit of a Curiosity Thinking that perhaps it might involve jurors who had begun to deliberate prematurely. The rule is that the jurors arent supposed to begin to discuss the evidence until the trial is complete and until theyre all in the room together. They are admonished not to talk in twos or threes, but only to deliberate as an entire group. We dont know for certain there is any problem along those lines. The judge did give an additional
instruction that they are back in the room and listening to evidence or it looks like the parties agreed the case was ready to move forward. Frank, i know we were pinging you all day with questions about your theories of what this pause could have been about. Can you share them with our viewers . Well, my first thought was indeed what appears on its face, that some juror may have been reported as saying or doing something inappropriate, but as joyce said, this happens all the time. It can be remedied. The key for me on this is whether there is any appealable issue, but it sounds like there is no disagreement between the defense and the prosecution on this. It sounds like it was an amicable agreement to resolve it. And if this is what happened, we move on. And dont forget, there are alternate jurors that if indeed this continues to happen, thats why you have alternates. You can insert someone and dismiss the juror who is causing an issue. That may have been it. We may be wrong. There may have been Something Else going on as well. Joyce vance, let me ask you to weigh in on the other story
we mentioned at the top of the show, this ruling that this conversation could be sealed because of concerns about gates testimony in the context of the larger ongoing investigation. This, i think, is very interesting. We also heard this week that it was possible that gates wouldnt serve any jail time at all at the end of these proceedings. And youll remember that he was indicted along with manafort for the whole kit and kaboodle. I dont think its by testifying in the manafort trial. The government Didnt Need Gates to prove this case. They must be getting assistance from him on Something Else and that Something Else is the content of those six sealed pages of the transcript from yesterday. Gates was around for the republican convention. He may know details, for instance, about how the Republican Party platform was
softened towards ukraine. He could know about money donors to the inauguration. He could know about contacts between people involved in the campaign and russians. So there are a lot of possibilities for what he might be able to narrate. Well just have to remain curious a little bit longer. Frank figliuzzi, he was around on the campaign when figures like carter page were also swirling around, that rather chaotic campaign. George papadopoulos was around that campaign. It started as a Counter Intelligence investigation, something that you know a little bit about. How would you use rick gates in the larger investigation into potential collusion or conspiracy with the russians to impact the 2016 campaign . What questions would you have him answer in exchange for what joyce just described, potentially no or little jail time . So i never thought that rick gates was all about a White Collar Crime case against manafort. He can answer the key question, the umbrella question of what this is all about, which is to
what extent did this campaign collude with an adversarial government to impact the outcome of an election. And did the president of the United States have as his Campaign Chairman an agent of a foreign power. Thats what gates gets to the heart of. Thats what hes answering. And i believe he knows the answers to those questions and has already provided them to the mueller team. And you reminded us today that gates was around a lot longer than manafort was. Theres been a lot of fire attacking manafort saying he wasnt around long, he gets the papadopoulos coffee boy treatment. Rick gates was and they havent done as nearly a effective job as distancing themselves from the transition, he was around the white house, he was in and around until he was indicted. Rick gates is a survivor. I remember on the campaign the president wants him gone, the president wants him fired, then
there he was. Not only does he have this perch, but hes there through the rest of the campaign. The convention is mentioned. Ment he had a role on the inaugural committee. Through President Trump he was deeply involved in the daytoday business of the white house, spotted on those 16 or 18 acres. Really, as you said, up until the day he was indicted. This is another reminder of how deep the tentacles of muellers probe. Do you have any sense, mike schmidt, there is any growing anxiety about all these fronts theyre managing now since the manafort trial . The ruling yesterday there is a value gates has to the larger investigation, we havent heard much from cohen this week. That is obviously ongoing and unfolding. Is the president there sort of
you have one witness that says this is what happened. Did and then you have another witness that recalls, well, no, thats not how i recall it, it happened this way. Someone writes a report and says, well, we believe this one, we dont believe that one, thus its perjury. The example, no crime. If it had been said, president says go easy on him which the president says he didnt say stop it, dont do it, so no crime. However, It Didnt Take place according to the president. According to comey it did. Now of course, if it didnt it wouldnt have mattered. But youre right. Im thinking my cousin vinny. Why are they acting out how the president might perjure himself in interview after interview after interview . This cannot be said enough. They believe the only thing that matters is public opinion. And if they can muddy the waters and make it more difficult for the average voter, the average voter will put less pressure on the House Of Representatives and the president will not face
perjury trap because theyre going to have to say to the public, look, heres why he cant do this thing, that most people would say if he did nothing wrong why cant you answer. That would be their strategy for ignoring a subpoena . The president would have to explain. He can say this is a witch hunt over and over again. The average person will say, just go and answer the questions. If you have nothing to hide, thats what i tell my 6yearold. Ashley parker, roger stone seems to be the person in the swirl today on the Collusion Side of the investigation, the Manhattan Madam went in and testified, another former aide is being held in Contempt Of Court today. Does that trigger any anxiety around the don Junior Circle or the jared circle or any of the other individuals who were in the room with the russians who promised dirt . I think right now yes and no. Roger stone is pretty loyal to the president. They have a very complicated love hate relationship that goes back decades. Far as we know. But stone sort of understands the psychology of President Trump better than most people in
that orbit. And he said publicly so far hes not going to testify against the president. I think thats probably viewed as reassuring, although this white house understands that people can flip like, for instance, Michael Cohen. Michael flynn. And michael flynn. And rick gates. So and pretty much everybody except Paul Manafort has flipped. So theyre aware that people can change when theyre getting pressed by the feds. When you have someone, self described colorful character, practitioner of the dark arts like roger stone who relishes in that image and plays up that idea of himself, its never great if he ends up going before muellers team. He does have these long ties to donald trump. It doesnt seem like a good fact, good piece of the pattern. The person who arguably was around him in the context of politics the longest was the colluder. Right. Not a good fact. Not a good fact. Frank, what would you do as an investigator if you were able to put roger stone in the
category of people who you can prosecute beyond a reasonable doubt if you were able to do that, able to charge him . Where does he fit into this collusion puzzle . Yeah, i think weve been because theres been so many people to focus on, weve been ignoring the significance of stone. Stone is a significant player here because, lets not forget, the whole connection to russian social media propaganda, the connection to julian assange, the wikileaks issue, hacking, all of this is encircling stone. And mueller is getting closer and closer. Lets not forget that the Manhattan Madam was interviewed first voluntarily by the mueller team, and then put in front of a grand jury. That tells us she said something very significant, very worthwhile, and likely against stone or someone else being targeted by the mueller team. So this is a man to keep watching. Im beginning to envision a Cafeteria Table in a federal prison where one guy says to the other guy, hey, what are you in
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moffa and george toskas, the sources said. Joyce is back. Ashley is on set. You believe it to be an important piece of all this. Why . Once again, nicolle, we are seeing not oversight, but rather complete attempts to obstruct by calling as witnesses under subpoena to the hill people who some of whom are career Public Servants. Jonathan moffa, for example, is a longtime career Intelligence Analyst in the Counter Intelligence division of the fbi. Hes very smart. Heeds been with this case since day one. So what theyre doing is they have identified him by name. They are going to call him to the hill under subpoena. They are going to threaten contempt if He Doesnt Spill Everything he knows as sensitive as it is about this case, and its shameful that theyre going to attack a Public Servant for political reasons. Thats what were going to watch happen here and i hope it doesnt happen. Mike schmidt, how do they
destroy the credibility of the fbi attacks land at the fbi . Some of these people were, are highly regarded figures who had the bureaus interest in mind and they are now political chum in the water for rudy and the president. Look at the damage theyve done. The director, the deputy director, the general counsel and the top Counter Intelligence agent. So, in that sense theyve cleared out the folks the closest to this investigation. I think the fbi is as good enough of an organization that whoever replaced those folks are probably as capable. But what a deterrent and what a success it has been to hollow out the agency in the way that they have. But is there any fear all those people did that we just named, theyve scrutinized the fisa application. Theyve scrutinized the dossier application. The surveillance was fruitful enough to continue to reauthorize it. Is there any change how they go about doing their jobs because of these attacks . I dont think so. Theyre probably a little more
nervous. Do you really want to be on a big case now if youre a line fbi agent, you may get called before congress, have Hundreds Of Thousands of legal bill turnout like pete strzok with millions of dollars of legal bills. There is a deterrent to get if involved. If youre the republicans i can see why theyve done that. The fbi has been the greatest gift to donald trump in this story. The page and strzok text messages, between the agent leading into the investigation in which he expresses an tiptrump bias. Thats what an important thing for trump trying to turn the narrative in the other direction. Frank, do you want to get in on that . Its a good question as to whether or not people will think differently or do their business differently in the fbi. And the one thing that i can think of is actually unfortunate, which is that now fbi professionals have to start thinking politically. How is this going to be perceived on the hill . How is this going to spin politically . Should we be doing something to counter political appearances . I can tell you thats not how
fbi professionals thought in the past. They just go about their business. The unfortunate by product of this is we are now going to have fbi professionals at all levels thinking about political repercussions and trying to figure out what the game is going to be on the hill. Is there anyone in the white house thats concerned about any of this, that they see, is