Transcripts For MSNBCW Hardball With Chris Matthews 20140822

MSNBCW Hardball With Chris Matthews August 22, 2014 23:00:00

Organizers say they must stand together and educate the youth. Register eligible voters and continue the conversations toward equality. These are little steps that can be a big step toward change we need. And that we must work for. Thanks for watching. Im al sharpton. Hardball starts right now. Obamas war. Lets play hardball. Good evening. Im Chris Matthews in washington. Let me start tonight with the killers. The thousands of them who have joined up to maraud across borders, murdering anyone who refuses to share their fanatic creed. The only question is how we eradicate this isis bunch. Experts say we cant do it by the air strikes we have been training on them. We cant be sure the president will keep those forces in the air over iraq. The dilemma is here. It stares us in the face. Do we escalate the war in isis or let it continue to the death or hit a little bit more and let them continue on their murderous path . Do we do a little or do everything . There is a lesson we have learned again and again. When we leave a country the land is controlled by those who stay there. Richard engel is nbc news chief Foreign Correspondent and has more from turkey. Reporter chris, they are dropping hints. For two days in a row white house officials, military officials suggesting quite overtly that the United States may have to start preparing for the fact that the u. S. Mission will be expanding significantly. It wont be just about air strikes against isis in iraq but across the border into syria as well. It seems quite possible, maybe likely that those could be happening according to officials we have been speaking to. The reason is the current policy isnt working. Isis operates on both sides of the border. Its in syria and in iraq. If the military is just attacking in iraq, clearly thats leaving a very large part of the organization untouched. Things changed just last month with that raid. That secret commando raid thats only now coming out, a few details are emerging. What was significant is defense secretary hagel said although the rate didnt succeed in recovering hostages it went smoothly. That means when u. S. Fighterer jets, u. S. Attack helicopters entered syrian air space, they werent attacked. The syrian air defenses, which as we have been talking about as being sophisticated didnt target in. Didnt lock in on american jets and seemed to ak by es to their presence as long as they were going toward the isis stronghold. It could have been interpreted as a green light that if the u. S. Wants to car rery out operations against isis in syria, the Syrian Government wouldnt mind. Thank you, richard. For more on the threat from isis, im joined by nbc political analyst colonel jack jacobs and evan coleman, an nbc news terrorism analyst. The same i have been having in my head for days. How do we win a limited war, go from limited air strikes to crushing the enemy as secretary of state john kerry put it the other day . I will start with jack jacobs. How do we do both keep it limited and win all out war to eradicate isis . The irony is our ally in the whole thing has to be syria. Right. Just a couple of months ago people were talking about how we needed to squash assad. We need to be on the side of the rebels. Exactly the opposite is going to be the case if we want to go after isis. Our ally has to be assad. Otherwise we wont be able to do it. It will require not only air assets but on the ground. That means assad. Who fights from the iraqi side if we have assad with us at least by implication on the syrian side. Who takes on isis besides us on the iraqi side . The only allies there its not baghdad. We have been relying on baghdad for some time to no avail. It has to be the kurds. We have to have more advisers on the ground. More special forces and special Operations Forces inside iraq in order to train the persshmerga. P i have a picture now which shows how much territory in iraq and syria isis has taken over. Look at the before and after here. You have syria and iraq. Now look at the big splotch. They have as much territory as either the syrians or the iraqis have. How do we eradicate that from the world map with limited air strikes . I will tell you how you dont do it. You dont focus isiss forces in iraq which is the most ridiculous strategy i have heard of. It would be Like Fighting world war ii by only fighting germans in france and avoiding belgium and germany. There have been are people suggesting that we dont know enough to strike where they are located in syria or we dont enough about whether or not they are trying to strike the United States. Its clear that the u. S. Government has been aware for some time that these individuals were torturing a u. S. Hostage. They were making ridiculous demands and apparently intended to execute this man. They have been attempting to carry out terrorist attacks in western countries including theUnited States and various different locations in europe. Why its taken to this point to launch air strikes in syria is difficult to understand. This is a very serious problem we have. To let it metastasize to this point before taking real action, this is not the way the Foreign Policy is run. Today Deputy National security adviser ben rhoads refused to rule it out in syria. I dont want to get ahead of decisions the president hasnt been presented with specific military options outside of those that are carrying out the Current Missions in iraq. We would look at whats necessary in the long term to make sure we are protecting americans. You heard the president say we will be relentless against isil. Well do whats necessary to protect americans and see justice is done for what we saw with the bar baric killing of jim foley. We are going to consider whats necessary to deal with the threat. We are not going to be restricted by borders. Here is a holistic question for you, colonel jacobs. Nobody asked you the big picture question. I will. Would we be better off if we had that clown gadhafi, assad, his son, Saddam Hussein . Wouldnt we be better if we left it as it was . The short answer is absolutely yes. The most surprised guy in the world when we showed up in iraq to topple Saddam Hussein was saddam hoo sane. Hes saying, im on your side, trying to get rid of the guys in iran and youre coming to get rid of me. It doesnt make sense. Its easy to be sanctimonious and say Everybody Needs a republican form of democracy. We see what happens when we try to force it on people who dont want it. It turns out that the enemy of our enemy is our friend and vice versa. It was a very bad thing. The original sin was going into iraq. This has not helped. It may be the arab spring and all the nonsense since that time would have happened anyway. But unlikely to have happened as quickly as it did or when it did if we hadnt bothered to topple Saddam Hussein and been on what a lot of people think is the wrong side in egypt. I still consider mubarak a friend of the United States even if our government doesnt. Let me ask you this. The pottery barn rules. Colin powell saying if you break it, you bought it. I think w. Broke it but i dont think obama bought it. If he goes into iraq its not to save iraq no matter how many times he says hell bring the three sides together sunni, shia and the kurds. I think there is an obama war. They killed an american because he was an american, a christian, they did it to get us. That was a National Attack on our country though it was done there. Do you think obamas got the blood in him to fight an obama war over there against isis now . A real war. I hope so. Again, i find it difficult that its gotten to this point so quickly. Look. These folks wanted to strike us for some time. We should have come to this realization a long time ago. In order to fight these folks we have to get serious. I understand when people say, look, we dont want to get involved in iraq. It was such a mistake. This is not the same conflict. There are distinct u. S. National security interests at play now. People are being trained to come back and launch targeted attacks in the u. S. Homeland. This happened long before we launched air strikes. It was something they planned for a long period of time. It involves essential u. S. Security interests. I hope president obama realizes that. I hope the whus realizes it. What we have seen so far has been an insufficient response, not a serious enough response. They need to change the tempo now. Let me go back to jack on this. It seems to me the neocons in the Defense Department and the Vice President s office and who write on the on sed pages relentlessly know more about the middle east than i do. They are hawks about israel and i accept that. If they really cared about the future of israel, just that country, why allow all this stuff to come apart . It seems israel was more secure before the rejumbling, whatever you 52card pickup. Throw everything in the air and see what comes down. It was much better off. Why did they go after the secular governments that were no threat to us or really deep down to israels existence. They were never a threat. Its a very significant issue here. In fact, the only people we have heard from on our side in all of this is israel. All of the people who were a threat in the region, the other people, arab countries, nothing. All the people who were also a threat europe, nothing. In fact, we did it all wrong. Now we are going to pay for it. I agree with evan that we are supposed to do something. We have to do something. We have to think strategically, not just tactically. Trust me. I think the political imperatives will drive the president to do little or nothing. Evan, your thoughts. George bush, sr. , he and jim baker were fantastic at putting together the arab league. They got the first gulf war paid for by the japanese and germans. The checkbook powers they were called. They got everybody together against saddam hhussein. Is there a way to gather the forces of the arab states to go after isis . The most important thing we can do aside from any kind of military action is to galvanize sunni resistance within syria and iraq. In other words galvanize individuals who may be sunni insurgents who may not have liked the maliki government but realize isis is a fanatical movement thats a posed to their interests and ours. We have to gall va are niez them, make sure they are armed and ready to confront isis. Unfortunately when you see incidents like what happened in iraq today where you are see 50 sunni are individuals who were at a mosque being massacred by shiite militiamen, thats what we dont know, what will prevent us from galvanizing sunni support for fighting against isis. Without that, no amount a of military power, pill tear strikes will make the difference. The person who can bring the sunnis to the side is the war against isis will be the greatest people of our time. It will be a challenge given the atrocity that happened with the shias killing 50some sunnis. Thank you, colonel jacobs. Im afraid well be back to you a lot in the coming weeks and months. Evan kohlman, good to have you on. Thank you. It looked like a war zone in ferguson. After a heartfelt visit from the attorney general eric holder and the beginning of a grand jury investigation into Michael Browns shooting, things look very different, at least for now. On wednesday, president obama called the killers of james foley unfit for the 21st century. Then he played a happy round of golf. His critics say the president doesnt care how he looks. And scenes from a marriage. The melodrama from richmond is the stuff of soap opera. Today former Virginia Governor Bob Mcdonnell testified there was no quid for the quo he got from businessman johnny williams. Is the jury buying that . Remember how the Blues Brothers got back together . It feels like 2012 now that paul ryan is pushing former running mate mitt romney to make a go of it in 2016. This is hardball, the place for politics. New polling in the senate race in new hampshire. According to a new poll gene shah sheen leads scott brown by just two points. Shaheen 46 and the former massachusetts senator brown at 44. If brown wins in new hampshire, expect the republican sweep on election night. Well be right back. Each years wont have a claim. Thats why allstate claim free rewards gives you money back for every year you dont have one. And why if youre part of the other 5 , allstate offers claim rateguard. So your rates wont go up just because of a claim. No matter what comes your way, your home protects you. Protect it back allstate Home Insurance from an allstate agent. Thats why i always choose the fastest intern. R slow. The fastest printer. The fastest lunch. Turkey club. The fastest pencil sharpener. The fastest elevator. The fastest speed dial. The Fastest Office plant. So why wouldnt i choose the fastest wifi . I would. Switch to comcast Business Internet and get the fastest wifi included. Comcast business. Built for business. Welcome back to hardball. Its been 13 days since that august 9th shooting of Michael Brown in ferguson, missouri. The past seven days have delivered brutal images. We have seen local police with semiautomatic rifles, flash bombs going off in the streets. Protesters writhing from teargas and throwing molotov cocktails at the police. Attorney general eric holder was on the ground during the height of the tensions to assure the community out there that their voices will be heard. There is calm on the streets right now. The National Guard is leaving. The question is how do things stay calm and what happens now. Craig melvin has been out there and delivered exceptional coverage for us all week long. He joins us on the ground. Craig, thank you. Congratulations on great reporting. Your sense of it as an observer, put it together. Is there a trend line here or is it in cycles . How do you see it in terms of the Community Reaction . I think, chris, we are finally at a point where the violent image you were talking about, clashes with police, i think we have seen the end of those. I believe that right now behind me on the street there are not so many protesters, maybe 10, 12 protesters. There seems to be a small block party behind me over the past 30 minutes or an hour. Playing music across the street. Serving barbecue over there. Not a Single Police officer is visible for me at least. I can see about a block in either direction. There are a number of community meetings. There is a peacefest scheduled for this weekend. The parents of Trayvon Martin are going to be in town. You get the sense now that the community is past the anger stage and to grief trying to make sure Something Like this doesnt happen ever again in an American City to a young black boy or any young person for that matter. With me is captain johnson of the police force out there and of course eric holder. I think they are real people. Thats my view. Can you analyze quickly what the impact was . The jenltlemen i mentioned. I think when we look back on th this, the eric holder visit will be a pivotal moment. Before the attorney general is when things were at their worst. The teargas, 70 arrests monday, nearly 50 on tuesday. Talking to folks after the attorney general left town, they really started to feel like, at least they told me they felt they were assured that there was not going to be railroading. There is a genuine distrust here of not just folks who make the rules but enforce the rules as well. When the attorney general talked about the parallel investigation being fair, that did a great deal to assuage the fears and concerns here. Captain johnson really does walk on water. I spent time with him earlier this week. Seeing folks come up to him and thank him. A lot of folks in the neighborhoods a block away. Folks would come up and thank him. Business owners thanking him. You have to wonder what would have happened had they tapped captain johnson four or five days sooner. So true. Moral authority is a great thing. Thank you very much for reporting on it. Last night on all in with chris hayes jay nixon discussed appointing a special prosecutor to take over for Bob Mcculloch who has taken heat from local leaders and activists due to his family ties with the police out there. Here is Governor Nixon giving his verdict. We have a local elected prosecutor. No, i wont take him off the case. Youre saying it now. You are not going to appoint a special prosecutor. No, im not. Plus, in this situation you have the secondary advantage of having attorney general of the United States and the Justice Department doing a parallel, dual investigation. Significant amount of public attention thats going on. If we trust all the processes my sense is the public is going to get what they need which is transparency and justice. Joining us now for more on ferguson is msnbc political analyst and former philadelphia mayor ed rendell. You have had all the positions. Whats your view of the way the case is being handled . Is it adequate for the community out there . We dont know how they are feeling day to day. Is it adequate to them to know you are getting dual investigations here one locally from elected officials and one from washington. Is it adequate . It is. In one sense. I think the people of ferguson have confidence in eric holder and the fbi and their impartiality. They will give a fair investigation. But they cant lodge murder charges against the policeman. The only thing they can prosecute is violation of the civil rights act. Although that carries a significant punishment its not exactly the same. Usually in these cases the federal investigation is a backstop that waits until the local state investigation is completed and finished. I have no doubt that mr. Mcculloch is a good prosecutor. He was head of the d. A. Association, the

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