To watch them up close bear their pain, bear their grief with dignity and not succumb to the temptation of wayward words and inflaming tensions has made me a better activist, a better person, a better commune indicator. I thank these families for making it a better america. Thanks for watching. Im al sharpton. Hardball starts right now. Who you gonna call . A hawkish hillary or a dovish rand paul . Lets play hardball. Good evening, im Chris Matthews in new york. Let me start with the wild possibility that we may have to choose for our next president between a democratic hawk and a republican dove. If you want to see a
transformational election in our country, let the democrats put forward a war hawk like Hillary Clinton. You will see a transformation like you have never seen. What will this do to mix up the decision after lee elections voting against a war can we choose a democrat who voted for the war and sounds hawkish today who takes a harder line on putin, iran, syria . How will republicans behave in the booth if forced to vote for a republican, rand paul, who thinks the u. S. Is too warlike . All of this is possible. It could happen if Hillary Clinton sticks to the hard line she voiced in a recent interview with the atlantic and rand paul win it is the republican nomination. Think it cant happen . It can. The big question is how party line voters will deal with it. Will democrats get hawkish . Will republicans get suddenly dovish . Talk about changing partners. David korn is here from mother
jones magazine. Lets watch more of senator paul when nbcs Chris Jansing interviewed him. Lets listen to senator paul. The American Public is coming more to where i am and those people, like Hillary Clinton who fought her own war, hillarys war. People will find and i think that scares the democrats the most. In a general election, were i to run, there is going to be a lot of independents and some democrats who say, you know, we are tired of war. We are worried Hillary Clinton will get us involved in another middle eastern war because shes gung ho. I hear this fellow and i think wait, thats me talking. We disagree on many domestic issues but war and Voter Suppression are the problems i have with the right. The way they try to keep minorities from voting and they get us into war and we are stuck
in a war in a country like iraq. Mr. Mr. Corn, what do you think when you heard paul talking . You have heard what senator clinton has been saying. I dont think democrats are scared of rand paul as a nominee. I think they would love him to be the nominee. I find it really hard to believe the republican establishment will allow him to become the nominee. Its almost inconceivable. That said, rand paul would have a hard time keeping onethird of the Republican Base which is the hawkish National Security part of the party. Whatever he may pick up or believes he might pick up from independence, hes going to lose a lot of republicans should he be the nominee. Very few real democrats are going to go rushing into the arms of a guy who wants to destroy government and make
abortion illegal just because hillary talks tough. Let me go back to gene on that. Hillary will probably be the nominee. You put them together. Shell probably be the nominee. Shes been hawkish, i think, always i have always sensed she was a hawk. I dont know when i first got that sense. Shes talking that way now. She is talking in a hawkish fashion. What david said is basically right except we dont quite know what circumstance wills look like if these two were to be the candidates. How messy will it be in iraq and syria . How deeply will we be involved . If we are involved in a messy conflict as we seem to be sliding toward, lets face it. And if rand paul is a candidate saying i will end this war and Hillary Clinton is the candidate saying weve got to push ahead, that does change the dynamic. Isnt there a difference . I think there is. Between a gut defense of america
against a treacherous attack on us, killing the journalist and this geopolitical ambition to rework the middle east. Those seem different. Maybe one is no smarter than the other. Gu gut blood wars like launching against isis now as opposed to the grand notion that got us into the huge mess in the last 10, 12 years which hillary supported which is working the middle east to our advantage which was a terrible idea. I agree. I think Hillary Clinton is, has always been a hawk or hawkish. One reason might be she might make a political calculation that the first woman president to be elected maybe has to be seen as tougher than less tougher, but i dont believe shes a neocon out there look ing to start war. Given the circumstances we saw in libya and iraq in 2002, her preference might be to support
something. I dont think shes actively looking to start wars to fulfill grand strategic ambition the way the neocons are. What about gene is right that the circumstances in the world will define what voters want in terms of a hawk, a dove or both. What scares me rs gene, is we all lov all lived through this. I watched jack kennedy become president. He made great decisions like not bringing in air power in the bay of pigs, getting us through the cuban missile crisis without a nuclear war going hot because he didnt have to prove his guts. He proved it in the south pacific. Lbj has to prove his guts. That got us into vietnam, 500,000 troops for all those years. A guy trying to prove he has the stones. I dont want a president who says the first thing i have to do is prove im tough. Thats the road to perdition. Look what it set us through. W. Wanted to be a tough cowboy. Lbj wanted to be a texas cowboy. How about less cowboy or cowgirl, if you will, for me . I would rather be Angela Merkel if you want to be a woman leader who knows how to put it together without war. Shes a tough leader, too. Hillary clinton has been secretary of state. Shes shown herself on the international stage. The question of having to appear tough is more a question for campaign than if they were to become president. Im not sure she would have to demonstrate something about her own firmness just for that sake. Her instinct is fairly hawkish. You know, as she looks at the middle east and the projection of u. S. Power. Its an interesting moment now. There is a lot of chaos overseas that has americans pretty worked up or at least upset or concerned. They are looking towards obama. What they want is for our president to take care of it. They dont want war. I think they are tired of war. At the same time they dont want chaos. It really leaves open for a very skilled politician to figure out how to deal with a public that wants a leader that will deal with this but without bringing us into a quagmire of a war. Not an easy calculation. Im not sure rand paul has a better sense of how to deal with this politically than anybody else. The Egyptian Military that we are paying most of their bills. The saudi air force, we are giving them fire power. Same with jordan. Why dont you guys get together and lead your air force in the attack on isis . Why do we have to do it from here . You guys dont like isis. Show it. Contrast between clinton and paul on Foreign Policy can be stark. Clinton include as memo to president obama about russian president Vladimir Putin and writes, dont appear too eager to work together. Dont flatter putin with
highlevel attention. Decline his invitation for a president iallevel summit in moscow in september. Contrast that give no quarter approach to rand pauls comments about dealing with putin. Some are so stuck in the cold war era they want to tweak russia all the time. I dont think thats a good idea. Gene . The question of how to deal with putin when Hillary Clintons book was written rand paul was speaking. We seem to have gotten past that. Putin has entered a new phase in his relationship with the west and with the United States. No president will be sitting down and having a friendly tea with him soon. But it does Say Something about the instincts of the two people. Lets look at the latest polling on this. We have an nbcwall street journal number that says 9 of the country want us more active in Foreign Policy and 47 less. Thats pretty clear that the people who want to yell geronimo are few in number. There is no support out there for the john mccain, Lindsey Grahams of the world who basically want to turn to war whether in syria, iraq, as soon as you can, as fast as you can, whenever you can. They are not that. At the same time we see obamas numbers have gone down a bit with the rise of the international conflict. Syria and elsewhere. I think the u. S. Expects their president to deal with stuff overseas. We want a leader who comes across as tough, hawkish in rhetoric, but doesnt bring us into war and finds another way of dealing with the situation. Thats whats hard in these circumstances and could be even harder in 2016. Talk loudly and carry a little stick . Could be. Anyway, gene, we are the same age. I remember that great character in arsenic and old lace charging down the stairs like charging up san juan hill. That reminds me of Lindsey Graham and john mccain lately. Great men but they are getting whacky sometimes. Thank you both. Coming up, american and British Intelligence are closing in on the man thought to be involved in nurd of james foley. Remarkably they say they have i. D. d the mass jihadist seen in the gruesome video of the american journalist execution. What a story that will be. Plus, Michael Brown was laid to rest in st. Louis. Will the anger of the Africanamerican Community lead to an increase in voter turnout in november in the Africanamerican Community . I hope so. The prosecutors in the Bob Mcdonnell case accused the former governor of stonewalling today, refusing to answer questions in the courtroom. Finally, you may not have known his name but you knew his
voice. Its saturday night live that was the great don pardo, the vintage voice of saturday night live. This is hardball, the place for politics. Needed a new factory, but where . Fortunately, they get financing from ge capital. Were part of ge, a company thats built hundreds of factories. So we can bring in experts to help them evaluate costs, incentives, and zoning to make a decision that would make their founder proud. If you just need a loan, just call a bank. At ge capital, were builders. And what we know, can help you grow. Morning, hank. What a day, huh . Hey morning, hank. [ male announcer ] for people who dont have allergies everyday, just on allergy days. [ sneezes ] [ groaning ] [ male announcer ] new qlearquil. The powerfully effective, take it only when you need it, so you can be you again, allergy medicine. Boo haha. All right, see you, buddy
[ male announcer ] and introducing qlearquil nighttime, the new allergy medicine for night. Qlearquil. Powerful sinus and allergy medicine from the makers of vicks nyquil and dayquil. I know you are thinking of me and praying for me. I am so thankful. I feel you all especially when i pray. I pray for you to stay strong and to believe. I really feel i can touch you even in this darkness when i pray. Well be right back. Shopping online is as easy as it gets. Wouldnt it be great if hiring plumbers, carpenters and even piano tuners were just as simple . Thanks to angies list, now it is. Start shopping online from a list of toprated providers. Visit angieslist. Com today. With the top speedou compare of comcast the top speed of business dsl from the internet. Phone company well, theres really no comparison. Why pay more for less . Call today for a low price on speeds up to 150mbps. And find out more about our twoyear price guarantee. Comcast business. Built for business. Welcome back to hardball. The murder of james foley, an innocent civilian killed only because he was an american increased calls for america to
go after the terror group responsible. The president gave voice to desire for revenge last week calling isis a cancer that has no place in the 21st century. Officials left open the possibility of expanded air strikes against the group in syria. What is the administration prepared to do . General martin dempsey, chairman of the joint chiefs said he would oppose air strikes because there is no evidence isis is plotting against the United States in this country. Meanwhile today in what could be a remarkable feat of intelligence nbc learned u. S. And british counterterrorism officials have identified the man with a british accent in that gruesome video showing foleys murder. Can we get him . Bobby gaush from quartz and brian from the center for american progress. Bobby, what do you think of the question of whether we are going to catch this guy . There are a limited number of british accented islamists over there. They have pretty good intel. Maybe the way j. Edgar hoover knew all the communists in the United States including his agents pretending to be communists. They seem to be fast on the trail. They have known for a while there is a stream of british nationals going to syria via turkey. They know who the channels are, who is firing the young men up. They know the supply chain. Theyve also got plenty of voice. This particular character is a failed rapper and v. J. Or deejay. They have a lot of voice tape. They have been able to match it to the tape from jim foleys murder. They have narrowed down the possibility. They have one guy. His name is abdul majid, abdul bari. He lived in london in an upmarket neighborhood. Quite popular with american
expats. Its not the place you would normally expect radical islam. Where is where are his roots . In middle east . His father was egyptian. Im not sure what nationality his mother was. His accent is pure british accent. Nothing to suggest he was isolated away from the british community, unable to sort of adjust himself. He was a vee krs dst jay and a rapper suggesting he embraced western life. You are willing to risk your life which has some admirable qualities even if i dont like the cause. To be an executioner is an escalation in your moral commitment beyond what most of us can imagine. To be so committed to your
hatred of the west that you would execute someone in a staged event, a snuff movie for the world to see. It takes a certain character to go that far in your hatred. Whats scary about this is u. S. Officials and outside experts estimate there are perhaps 3,000 people from western countries canada, europe, the United States. Maybe a hundred from the u. S. Perhaps 700 from france. These people are connected by the internet. A lot of these guys are tweeting and facebooking their way to the battlefield doing horrific things. It is an awful situation. We need to get a grip on it. Not everybody likes living in america. They dont like the pace of life, competitiveness. They think we are too chauvinistic. I dont think we are worse than anybody else. There is a difference between going back to the homeland or feeling fealty to the culture and coming out and declaring
war. On meet the press yesterday, mike rodgers put in stark terms the threat posed by isis. Lets watch. Its gone unabated for nearly two years. That draws people to join the fight. They see it as a winning ideology, winning strategy. They want to be a part of it. That makes it dangerous. They are one plane ticket away from u. S. Shores. Bobby, what do you make of that . Thats a stark challenge. I respect mr. Rodgers as chair of the committee. What damage can one person do . 9 11 was an almost Alistair Mclean event. The idea of ark straiting attacks on pilots, killing flight attendants, organizing it so you knew there were only a few men on the plane. They did all the casing. That was an elaborate conspiracy to commit a horrible attack on the United States. Thats not to say somebody who doesnt like us couldnt do something. Do you think this is an overstatement of the danger here . He has more access to intelligence than you or i do. I hope what hes saying is based on something hes seen or heard. Its worth remembering isis is far more sophisticated than al qaeda was which is somebody to be concerned about. It has a larger pool of people to choose from when it comes to picking people for operations against the west. The last point thats worth making is this is the 21st century. You dont have to come to the american mainland to hurt american interests or americans. Even in the middle east there are a huge number of american institutions, organizations. American individuals, hundreds, thousands of American Kids go to the middle east to study arabic for instance. Egypt, jordan. The student to do harm to america and americans exists all
over the world, much closer to where some of the people operate than we think. To make the point that bobby made lets listen. This weekend kier simmons spoke to muslim extremists in london who defended isis. Chillingly, the killing of james foley itself. Lets listen to the strong, i would say, frightening opinion here. There are a lot of people who would feel the Islamic State has a right to defend themselves. Killing a journalist isnt protecting yourself. Who is really to blame for the death of james foley . I believe it is the Foreign Policy. Its the man who put the knife in his neck, surely. Well, the thing youve got to ask is why was this particular man chosen . It seems he was chosen because he was an american citizen. There is more of that attitude, brian. Its frightening. One of the guys says he blames us and they have the right to do it. It was basically the message this is justified. This is fair revenge, if you will. Its crazy. I think what needs to be done here is there are counter radicalization efforts in communities in the United States and in europe. Some of our best allies are leaders in the muslim communities there. They have worked with the u. S. To counter