Reverend al. Hardball will have full coverage of the speech next. Chris jansing, thank you for your time tonight. And thanks to you for watching. Im al sharpton. Hardball starts right now. Congress backs the president on war. And this is hardball. Good evening, im Chris Matthews in washington. President obama is just about to dress the country on the votes by both houses of congress now, supporting his decision to arm and train Syrian Opposition forces for the battle against the terrorist group isis. The senate just voted. 7822 to authorize the arms and training. The house voted yesterday also in support of the president s position. Senator angus king of maine joins us now, hes an independent to alines with the
democrats. Senator king, what does this mean . Does this oh, lets go to the president. International coalition to degrade and ultimately destroy the terrorist group known as isil. France will join against isil targets in iraq and as one of our oldest and closest allies, france is a Strong Partner in our efforts against terrorism. Were pleased that french and American Service members will Work Together on behalf of our shared security and our shared values. Broadly, more than 40 countries, including arab nations have offered assistance as part of this coalition. It includes support for iraqi forces, providing humanitarian aid to iraqi civilians and doing their part in the fight against isil. Here at home, im pleased that congress, a majority of democrats and a majority of republicans in both the house
and the senate have now voted to support a key element of our strategy. A plan to train and equip the opposition in syria so they can help push back these terrorists. As i said last week, i believe that were strongest as a nation when the president and congress Work Together, and i want to thank leaders in congress for the speed and seriousness with which they approached this urgent issue, in keeping with the bipartisanship that is the hallmark of American Foreign policy at its best. These Syrian Opposition forces are fighting boat the brutality of isil terrorist and the tyranny of the assad regime. We ramped up our assistance, including military assistance to the Syrian Opposition. This new effort will provide training and equipment to help them grow stronger and take on isil terrorists inside syria. This programming be hosted outside of syria in partnership with arab countries and it will
be matched by our increasing support for Iraqi Government and Kurdish Forces in iraq. This is in keeping with a key principle of our strategy. The American Forces that have been deployed to iraq do not and will not have a combat mission. Their mission is to advise and assist our partners on the ground. As i told our troops yesterday, we can join with allies and partners to destroy isil without american troops fighting a war in the middle east. The support from Congress Shows americans that were united in confronting the threat of isil. With their barbaric murder of two americans, they thought they could intimidate us or cause us to shrink from the world, but today theyre learning the same lesson as terrorists who have gone before. As americans, we do not give in to fear. When you harm our citizens, threaten the United States and threaten our allies, it unites
us. We stand together to defend this country that we love to make sure justice is done, as well as joining with those who seek a better opportunity for a future with dignity for all people. These air strikes continue, were taking out their terrorists, destroying their being haves and equipment and stockpiles, and we salute our dedicated pilots and crews who worry carrying out these missions with great courage and skill. As commander in chief, i could not be more proud of their service. As i told some of our troops yesterday, the American People are united in our support for them and for their families, and as we go forward as one nation, id ask all americans to keep our forces and their families in their thoughts and prayers. Thanks very much. Senator king, we just heard the president there. I was wondering if we had a vote in the u. S. Senate on whether to authorize the air strikes, the combat by the United States, would it have passed anywhere near 7822 like the measure did
on arming the opposition groups . Well, my first thought was isil did the impossible. It generated 78 votes on anything in the United States senate. That ought to strike fear that theres that kind of almost unanimity. I dont know. I think the important phrase the president used, tim, was the important phrase he used, im sorry chris. Going back in time. The important phrase he used was an element of my strategy. The rest of the strategy, i think, is going to come before the congress sometime after the elections in november or december when we have to talk about an authorization for the larger air strikes, the whole strategy in iraq and in syria. That could be a different discussion, a different debate. I think it will still be a favorable one, but i think congress has a role to play there and well have to step up. Lets talk about the vote you made tonight. Do you have a sense and im not being unfair here, i dont think. But maybe i am. Do you have a sense of the politics of syria, the various
factions that were talking about aiding and arming, giving arms to and training and perhaps even paying them . Do we know these people that were giving guns to . Well, there is an effort to the term they use is vet. To find out who they are, to check them out, talk to contacts in syria. So theres that process. I dont think anybody can make any guarantees about these people. Syria is one of the most complicated places on earth. There are Something Like 1,200 different opposition groups. So just imagine trying to sort that out. But thats certainly one of the tasks that were going to have as we go through this process. The last thing we want to do is arm people who will turn around and use those arms against us. So that is the first step in this process, and i think we do know how to do it. I dont think its going to be foolproof. But i think theres a reasonable chance that were going to be able to do that successfully. What do you think of this historically . Heres the United States, which
won independence by beating the hessians. Now were clairing war on isis but not having an army of our own willing to go in, because the American People dont support it, to have to go out and scramble and recruit, muster really, an army of people we dont know and hope after we train them, theyll fight the war we want them to. Isnt that an odd situation . Well, theres a difference between syria and iraq. In iraq, there is an army. Theres the iraqi army and theres the peshmerga, the kurdish army, and they are fighting for their own country. These people that were talking about in syria are syrians. And i dont think were approaching this way because of domestic politics, although i suspect thats in the back of the president s mind. But the real reason is, trying to do it ourselves isnt going to work. We know that, weve learned that. Its got to be, this has got to be a war involving the local
population of that region, particularly sunnis. This cant be viewed as a western war on islam. If it is, thats what isis wants. Thats why the crucial element of this, there are two things. One, its got to be a Real Coalition. We have to have people who are going to be in there fighting, theyre just not holding our coat while we do the fighting. And the second piece s the government in baghdad has to be inclusive and give the sunnis in northern and western iraq some loyalty to baghdad instead of to these guys in isis. Do you see any evidence and again i dont want to be too tough here, but its hardball, do you see any evidence that the jordanians are being threatened by isis, or the saudis, or the emirates, any of the sunni powers that are normally with us, do you see any evidence they want to get on the fight on the ground . Take the Ground Campaign to isis . I dont know about the ground part. I think theres evidence that theres going to be air support from those countries, but i think thats whats going to be developed over the next few days. And thats why this vote today in the congress was so important. If we had backed off of this, then i think forming a Real Coalition would have been almost impossible. Theyd have said, what do you expect us to do when youre not going to step up . So i think the vote today is a big plus for the president and secretary kerry to go to those countries and say, okay, were committed, where are you going to be . And my sense is, chris, that its starting to build. Some momentum on this coalition is going to build. But thats an absolute necessity. If that doesnt happen, its a fools errand. Were not going to be able to dislodge these guys. We have to have a coalition and have the support of the people on the ground in those two countries. We keep hearing around the edges from the administration, the chairman of the joint chiefs and the Vice President backing it up, that if worse comes to
worst and we cant win through the air, that well go in on the ground. What do you think about the American People, they say we cant beat isis from the air, and air campaigns rarely complete the job, would we go into syria . I dont think so. Now, i was in that hearing from general dempsey said, i would recommend some additional u. S. Troops i dont think the president would accept that recommendation and i dont think the American People are there. But my ultimate reasoning on that is, it wont work. Its not going to be successful. We cant police this area of the world. Weve spent the last dozen years learning that, and i dont think we need to relearn it. So yes, general dempsey opened that door yesterday, and i do think we need a plan b, what if it doesnt work . But youre right, theres no such thing as a surgical war, no such thing as solving this with just air power. Its going to take boots on the
ground, but they shouldnt be our boots. Theyve got to be the boots of the kurds, and the iraqis and the syrians. We got to make somebody else hate them as much as we do. Thank you very much, senator. Before todays vote, senator rand paul delivered an empassioned speech against the arming and training of the rebels. He said americans should stop listening to interventionists who were wrong about every Foreign Policy decision of the last decade. If you look at so heres rand. Who are we really arming . What will be the result . Where will the arms end up . Think about the insanity of this. We are giving weapons to people fighting in trenches with al qaeda. This administration and its allies have been on both sides of this civil war. Its messy, its unclear. There are bad people on both sides. We need to stay the heck out of
their civil war. Then, as isis grows stronger are, or they not quelled, then what happens . Then they come back again and again. Theres already the drum beat. Theres already those in both parties who insist that we must have american gis on the ground. Im not sending any american soldiers. Im not sending your son, your daughter, or mine, over to the middle of that chaos. Joining me now senator roger wicker. Thank you for coming on tonight. Glad to be on, thank you. I dont think thats the popularity opinion of either party. Very much an isolationist statement. Where do you think that fits into republican or anybodys thinking today that things are too messy, too hard to pick sides, we better stay out . Well, let me just say, there were 12 republican votes against the resolution, 10 democratic votes and i dont think most of those people would agree with
the language of senator paul. I think there were budget reasons, a number of doubts about the strategy that caused those no votes. What do you make i want to ask you the same tough question. Because i dont know the answer. Do we know syrias politics . Our country is pretty much 50 50, left, right. But finding people that are willing to take on this fight against isis and we can arm and train them. Those are very, very good questions. And one thing that your viewers need to know. This is a threemonth authorization. This expires mid december. In that time, the president has an opportunity to get the coalition going, to answer some of the questions that have been asked about whos going to participate. Which arab nations, which muslim nations are going to step forward and actually be involved
in this war. And then the president will have an opportunity to come back during the lame duck session after the election and make his case for a more permanent authorization. This i think was viewed by a lot of the people who voted yes, as not wanting to turn our back on the commander in chief, not wanting to send a signal that were not willing to stand up against a group that he says weve got to crush, that the secretary of state said we have to use all of our powers. That the secretary of defense said theyre unlike anything weve seen before. So if theyre that serious, i think 78 members of the senate and about that percentage of the American People want to give this commander in chief an opportunity to make the case and to show us over the next three months that he has a plan that can win. And a plan that if hes
successful, he can hold those gains, unlike we did with the gains we had after the surge. You know, i was thinking about the whole idea of training another army, the british were able to do it after india. Couple hundred years, they developed that relationship. But bought into democracy. And that worked. But were in iraq and afghanistan for a number of years. Paid their salaries, gave them uniforms and rifles. American gis teaching them. They folded when isis attacked them. And there was an amazing attack in 74 and 75 and they folded. How can you create the willingness to fight and die for a cause in somebody else besides the person who really has that fight in their heart . Well, i think the mistake made was after the surge, which wasnt successful, i think the mistake was made by president
obama in not following the advice of his generals. I do believe we could have negotiated a status of forces agreement. We could have gotten the maliki government which was in charge at the time to allow a residual force to stay there, i think that history will determine that 15 or 20,000 american troops would have prevented this sort of disaster with large portions of iraq taken by terrorist groups. Thats a good argument, but it would mean that we would be doing a good portion of the fighting ourselves again. I dont know that that would be the case. But let me say, weve kept residual forces in europe and its worked. My son was stationed in korea. Our troops arent fighting there. But they are a stabilizing force, and i honestly believe we could have kept a stabilizing force there and we would not be
having the chaos. Ive got to go now. The president needs to convince the American People that if he is successful within his wildest dreams, and we actually gain every goal that he wants to, that we wont throw it away yet again, and were being called on a few years from now to take this hill a third time. I understand that. In germany, we were fortunate when the germans lost hitler, they quit. It didnt continue to be a battle. Of course we had the communists on the other side. Anyway, thank you, senator. Coming up, congress has approved the president s plan to arm and train the moderates, but critics warn our new allies may come with deadly baggage. As weve been talking about, this is a tricky one. This is hardball, a place for politics. When fixed income expes work with equity experts
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government of sy