Later this evening, the st. Louis county prosecutor will announce the grand jurys decision. While none of us knows what that will be, our shared hope and expectation is that regardless of the decision, people on all sides show tolerance, mutual respect, and restraint. Together we are all focused on making sure the necessary resources are at hand to protect lives, protect property, and protect free speech. Joining me on the ground from the Justice Center in clayton, missouri, right now is msnbc reporter tremayne lee and also nbcs legal analyst lisa bloom, and director of the black Law Enforcement alliance. Also with us by phone is congressman Emanuel Cleaver who represents parts of central missouri. Tremayne, we just heard the press conference moments ago. What is the mood where you are right now as the crowd there and really everybody across the country awaits this announcement at 9 00 . Here were outside of the courthouse in clayton, and its pretty calm heras people are awaiting this announcement in about two hours. Just about ten miles from here in ferguson, people are already gathered. There are reports of helicopters flying around. I heard one a few minutes ago, whether it be a Police Helicopter or news helicopter. But folks are awaiting this announcement. It will inevitably spark some sort of demonstration, whether its an indictment or not. So folks plan on using to opportunity, especially with the Holiday Weekend coming up, to make sure they continue to push and get out there and call for justice for mike brown and others who have been sorry go ahead. Tremayne, can you still hear me, tremayne . I can hear you. Im back. Let me ask you a question about the timing on all this. When there were protests and demonstrations this summer, to the extent there was trouble with the protests, it seemed to come later at night, the fact that the decision has been made to announce at night has people saying, why not wait until morning . Was that addressed at the press conference we just heard . It wasnt really. Governor nixon said it was up to the grand jury. But we need to keep a few things clear. While there was some violence, people have this perception that the crowd of 5 or 600 turned on police or property. And that never happened. To the point that later at night and into the early morning, there were some problems. On the two days of looting where police stood back and allowed the crowd to do what they wanted, there were some issues there. So whether or not well see a repeat of what we saw in august is yet to be seen. But those days were spawned organically. Folks poured out of those apartment complexes that lined the road. Three and a half months have gone by. People are more organized. Its yet to be seen whether well have the same type of spontaneous combustion we saw before. Those who are committed to the causes will take to the streets one or another. But now were just two hours away, well see how folks respond. Lisa bloom, lets just go through the range of possible charges here against officer wilson. Its a wide range of possibilities, starting with firstdegree murder. Thats charged with the suspect knowingly causes death after deliberation. And get death or life in prison. Seconddegree murder, knowingly causing the death of another person without deliberation. And voluntary manslaughter, a penalty of five to 15 years in jail. Unvoluntary manslaughter firstdegree, for recklessly causing a death. Carries a maximum penalty of seven years in jail. And finally, involuntary manslaughter, seconddegree, covering criminal negligence, carries a maximum pent of four years. Or, no charges. Is there a sense, if the grand jury were to return an indictment, where in that list the charges would fall . I would say seconddegree murder or voluntary or involuntary manslaughter. This case has never been a whodunnit. He picked up the gun, pointed it at mike brown and pulled the trigger intentionally. The only question, why . Did he do it in defense of himself . Or in defense of another . We know there was a skirmish at the car, mike brown then pulled away and ran a substantial distance away. Six witnesses have said mike brown was shot with his hands up. Darren wilson is accountable for every bullet that he fired out of his gun. Did he fire the final fatal shots in anger . In hostility because of an emotional disturbance . If so, that would be murder or manslaughter. Or did he do it because he was afraid for himself or afraid for another . Thats something he would have to persuade the gorgeous to get a no indictment. Congressman, you represent a different part of missouri, more the western part. But obviously this is your home state, this is your home region. When youre looking at the crowds gathering in ferguson, im curious what youre thinking right now and what youre expecting to see tonight. Well, i was in ferguson a week ago. And i think one of the things that has to be emphasized over and over again and that is that there are a lot of very educated, very socially minded young people, who have gone through all kinds of training, in order to present their case through direct action, through nonviolent direct action, in a way that delivers the message and as clearly as possible, and that is that they are angry over the fact that we have not only Michael Brown who has been gunned down, an unarmed African American teenager, but its happened repeatedly. We had one yesterday in cleveland with with a 12yearold shot and killed with a toy gun. One of the things to be noted, its been somewhat out of the discussion, and that is, no matter what the grand jury does tonight, the fbi and the Justice Department are in fact conducting a parallel investigation. So a grand jury doesnt mean that this Police Officer wont be indicted. It means that the grand jury is not going to indict. Now the prosecutor doesnt need a grand jury in order to indict. The fbi doesnt need the grand jury in order to present information or evidence to the Justice Department for an indictment. So, this is not necessarily the end, no matter what the grand jury does tonight, whether they say issue a new true bill, which means they will not recommend indictment. Or if they say that its involuntary manslaughter, which is probably the only charge, i think, they would probably do. Congressman, im curious as to your response to the Governors Press conference. He had already called a state of emergency. In terms of the public statements hes made, how he handled himself tonight, how hes prepared the government in missouri for the decision tonight, what is your assessment of that . Well, i would have preferred that the governor not necessarily called out the national guard. However, its difficult to know exactly what to do if youre in the governors seat. So i think hes looking at, you know, the possibility that something could go wrong, something could go badly wrong, and he would end up being blamed. Now, i think the governors comments tonight, i would like to have been involved in helping him or his staff craft what he said, because i think one of the things that is extremely important, and it is that young people understand that their pain is not wrong. So we need to let them know not only that we understand their pain, but all decent americans, black or white or brown, should also feel the pain of a family and a community of a young 18yearold kid shot down. And so i think, if i had been involved in the drafting of his comments, it would have been along the lines that, look, i understand youre hurt. I understand that theres a lit any of these kinds of things happening around the country and we got to make sure that we deal with Law Enforcement at the same time that we deal with the anger that young people are feeling. Mark, let me ask you, theres been a lot of attention from the president of the United States, president obama on down to making sure to making statements in advance of this decision tonight, trying to emphasize to the protesters, not to turn violent in any way. Everybody wants to. Wants to avoid that. How does Law Enforcement draw the line between actions that are designed to prevent violence from happening, and actions that end up almost encouraging that kind of response . Well, its very difficult, and its a very thin line often times. But lets be clear about something. Youre talking about Law Enforcement professionals, who are supposedly well trained to address and deal with these type of situations and just as importantly, theyre paid to address these situations. Law enforcement is there and they dont get paid for what they do. They get paid for what they may have to do one day. This is one of the difficult positions theyll be put in tonight. But there should be no concern about Law Enforcements perspective on this. What should concern folk is the priorities of the local government there in st. Louis. It appears to me clearly that the priority is the protection of certain people and certain property, over justice. If you dont understand the nature of the complaints, of the concern, and of the passion that people feel, the protesters feel, then you can never effectively engage and resolve these issues. And i wonder, mark, when you look back to what happened this summer, its been several months now, and theres been communication between Law Enforcement and members of the community in advance of tonight. If theres one key lesson that you hope that Law Enforcement and local government could take from this summer, what would it be . Lets be clear about something else. This has been the most inept governmental and Police Response that ive ever witnessed. Perhaps in modern history. Definitely as it relates to dealing or addressing issues of unarmed civilians being shot by the police. So its difficult to find a lesson or something you could take out of this, that is in any way positive. Its been bungled from the very beginning. It really is a lesson in what not to do when responding to these types of incidents, who not to have speak for you, who not to have represent you. It really is a classic case of what not to do. It should be a textbook case for Police Departments, police agencies, and Law Enforcement agencies throughout the nation of what not to do. Because this is an atrocity, what has disorder up to this point. Im talking about both the governmental response, the prosecutors response, and the Police Response that occurred over the summer. All right, thank you all. Appreciate you joining us tonight. We continue to follow the developments out of ferguson. Well be staying with the story throughout this hour as we await the grand jurys announcement. This is hardball, the place for politics. D titans. For respawn, building the best Interactive Entertainment begins with the cloud. This is titanfall, the first multiplayer game built and run on microsoft azure. Empowering gamers around the world to interact in ways they never thought possible. This cloud turns data into excitement. This is the microsoft cloud. Youre down with crestor. 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Request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider the ultimate arena for business. Hour after hour of diving deep, touching base, and putting ducks in rows. The only problem with Conference Calls eventually they have to end. Unless you have the comcast business voiceedge mobile app. It lets you switch seamlessly from your desk phone to your mobile with no interruptions. Ive never felt so alive. Get the future of phone and the phones are free. Comcast business. Built for business. I do not want people in this community to think they have to barricade their doors and take up arms. We are not that kind of a community. I do not want people to accidentally shoot or arm someone out of fear. This is not the time to turn on each other. It is a time to turn to each other. We are one community. Welcome back to hardball. More now on tonights big story out of ferguson, missouri, where a grand jury has reached a decision in the shooting of Michael Brown. That was st. Louis county executive charlie dooley, calling for calm as we await the grand jurys announcement set for 9 00 eastern time. Michael browns case has exposed deep and profound wounds in a community that has experienced harassment and prejudice. The refrain from the protesters, they want justice, but dont trust the Justice System to carry it out. So what happens now . What justice are we talking about . We have a reporter on the ground in ferguson. In terms of defining, we hear the refrain yesterday, what does that mean to protesters . Specifically what would they define as justice in this case . A number of protesters are hoping for an indictment, but its still unclear what the decision will be. Theyre also calling for justice not just in mike browns case, but for Police Brutality all across the country. Theyre taking his case to stand for a National Issue that they want to say black lives matter. And so theyre taking to the streets already. Were seeing small crowds gather in front of the Ferguson Police department and we expect the numbers to grow as night falls. And as authorities said earlier today, they reiterated they wanted peaceful protests, they wanted things to remain calm, but they also said they do not want to see damage to property and they will not allow any type of violence. So well see as the night falls. Thank you, amanda live from ferguson. Im joined by michelle bernard, president of the Bernard Center for women, a special assistant to president obama on matters of faith. And the Orlando Police chief. Michelle, let me start with you on the issue and we heard from amanda saying protesters looking for at the very least an indictment here. I wonder, is there any room, because theres certainly a possibility this grand jury is going to say, we looked at the evidence and we dont think there should be an indictment here, we dont think this officer should be tried for manslaughter or anything along the lines. Is there any room to say, they looked at this, the evidence is out there and theres no room to proceed. Is there room for that conclusion to be reached by any of the protesters, do you think . I think the only way that anyone whos looking at this literally and objectively can reach the same conclusion is if we know a little bit actually, a lot more about the facts. There are many people out there, who i completely disagree with, i want to say that first, who have referred to Michael Brown who got what he had coming towards him. All these talks about him somehow accosting the Police Officer, damage to the Police Officers orbital socket, that may or may not be true. Honestly, we dont know yet. We need to have the evidence. If this officer truly and objectively had reason to believe that he was in eminent danger or in fear of his life or the fear of others and that was the reason why he had to shoot someone who had their hands up and from some accounts was running away from him, i think that maybe people maybe people will reach that conclusion. Its difficult, weve heard the evidence i mean, we dont know what the grand jury has heard yet. We only know what we have seen and read from witnesses that day. At least from what ive seen from six people, six witnesses who say that Michael Brown had his hands up in the air and was compliant with the wishes of that Police Officer. I dont know how you can account for all of the bullets that tore through his body that day. Joshua, from the other standpoint on this, lets say if there were to be an indictment tonight f the grand jury were to come back and say we think a case should be tried on the following charge. Given all the skepticism about how the prosecutor has handled this case, the protesters dont feel his heart has been inn making a case. If theres an indictment, do you think they would have any faith in the prosecutor to try the case . I think it would be a step in the right direction. It would help to have the evidence brought out into the open in a full and open jury trial, and for folks to be able to see exactly what facts occurred on the ground. I think another challenge is the prosecutor himself. I mean, as we know, grand juries are almost entirely controlled by the prosecutor. And this is a man who is so close to Law Enforcement, he might as well be coming into work in a blue uniform and a badge. His father, his uncle, his brother, all work for the st. Louis county Police Department. His mother was a clerk for the Police Department. Theres a reason why people are skeptical and smelling something rotten in the state of missouri. From a Law Enforcement background here, how in a case like this, this is going before the grand jury. We dont know yet and maybe we will find out, but we dont k