The only thing keeping him from the white house now is a candidate whos not yet entered the race, either another republican or democrat Hillary Clinton. A number of the potential republicans may have been scratched from the race by the mere fact of jeb bush entering it today. I think of mitt romney whose best argument for running was if jeb decided not to. Same for Chris Christie who has enough baggage from the bridge mischef. The announcement today jeb bush has taken a first step gives this race a shape it doesnt have just yesterday. Its now bush against the hard right. And a bush in theera ratce ahea a clinton. Michael steele and joan walsh, both are msnbc political analysts. I want you both to talk about analysis first and then attitude. Ill start with joan now that you said yes. Thanks, joan. When you look at this as a person who studies politics and has a view, what do you see happening because of this pretty much statement im running for president today out of nowhere it came . Obviously hes trying to line up big donors behind him. Theres been a lot of talk about the donors want to coalesce around someone. They dont want mitt to run against jeb against christie. Hes stepped out, not waiting for someone to be anointed. So thats one thing. I this really does make it almost impossible for rubio to run, or certainly to win, or to run incredibly. Jeb is leading him in florida. You know, hes more likely to beat Hillary Clinton even in the state of florida. So i think this really leaves rubio in the dust. I dont know what it does to the rightwing of the party. I believe that even though hes a conservative as far as im concerned, hes very conservative. Hes too moderate for the republican base. So i see a path for him to win the nomination of the big party donors. Winning over the base is another question. He certainly doesnt hate hispanics. Hes married to one. Hes probably the most proimmigration guy in either party. Let me ask you about the deepdown reason. We can be cynical if we want to. I dont want to be. The decision to run for president , stick your head in the furnace, going to get hit from the hard right on all kinds of reasons, his family. Theyll find everything. From listening to him for years, i sort of like him. Immigration is real with him. Its his family. His wifes from mexico. His kids are hispanic. Hes very much in love with the his his panic people. Education, vouchers, common core. We wants our educational system to advance people and to assimilate people. He wants to shake it up. He wants it to be a vehicle for america to become more america. Right. And you lay out exactly some of the motivations that have shaped, certainly since hes been governor of florida, shaped his politics over the last seven years or so. So now the test for jeb is to navigate the early and tricky waters in the conservative base. Theyve already started coming out. Even a few weeks ago, there were folks lobbing the bombs. I think jeb bush in coming out today before christmas, has the opportunity to create a Sister Soldier moment in the party on those two points immigration and education. And personalize the narrative in a way that no republican has been able to do so far. Why did the underwater walrus speak so quick today . [ laughter ] could you clarify who that i be . Rush limbaugh. Why did he feel the need to make that burping sound . Hes already cooked up a Conspiracy Theory on why jeb is running for president. Lets listen. You want to know why jeb bush is thinking of running . Ill give you including the fact that he may actually want to be president , he may want to do this, but hes also being looked at as a saviour by the bigmoney donor class. And the consultant class, the establishment of the party, to head off the tea party. Theyre going to pull out all the stops to make sure that a tea party type conservative doesnt get the nomination. But why let me ask you a question. Maybe its too logical to ask a question about Rush Limbaugh except ratings or whatever. Im not a media critic, but i dont get this guy. Hes the leader of the Republican Party to many peoples minds. Rush limbaugh says theres something wrong with heading off the tea party, when everybody watching this says a tea party person cannot be elected president of the United States against Hillary Clinton. Somebody who buys the pile of that stuff. Why would he want a tea party person to be the nominee if they will most certainly lose . Why would he want that . Is it better for his audience if theyre really angry with hillary as president . I dont think anybody as any idea what that man believes deep in his soul. You gave him soul. Im being charitable tonight. Thats a leap of faith before christmas. Its the holiday season, chris. Im feeling kind. But i dont know what he really believes, but this is the role he plays. And this is the role that he wants to play, to rile up the base, to represent the Tea Party Wing of the party. And you know, on one thing, i hate to say t but i kind of agree with him, that jeb bush is the candidate of the Desperate Party donors who really dont want to see god forbid ted cruz or maybe even worse to them, a rand paul. And they really do want to head that off. I would argue thats all true, i think. But michael, isnt he also the hope of the suburban moderate republicans who read newspapers and actually believe in a little Less Government than democrats . I think jeb touches on a number of, you know, elements in the Republican Party. Not just, you know, the suburban moderate republican. And i think when you hear a Rush Limbaugh and you juxtapose it against a jeb bush, that goes to my first point. Thats what hes got to navigate. How many states would Rush Limbaugh carry if he ran . But thats not the point. Its what a Rush Limbaugh can do to frame an argument that jeb bush doesnt want to make. Or shouldnt have to make. So the question is, how does he get out in front of that and pull the party towards him as opposed to having it pulled away from is that smart . I think its very smart. I was looking for that thing that would start this engine and change the pair dime, this is it. The other element is rand paul, another piece out there that could have an interesting juxtaposition in terms of the base. I think theyre the two strongest candidates right now. I dont know whos going to win the general election. Its two years from now. We dont know. We just dont know. But we now know that theres one guy in the race. And as they say in massachusetts politics, usually democrat politics, the shape of the field determines the victor. Depends whos running. So obvious, but depends whos running. Now we know hes running. Means romney and rubio are probably not running. And christie with taint on him from indictments of people around him, he cant run. Which means its going to be jeb bush, in all likelihood now against somebody on the right. Somebody that may not be despicable on the right. Rand paul is not despicable. Ted cruz fits that category. This could be interesting. I think certainly one way that he does win the nomination is the way mitt romney did, if a bunch of Tea Party Folks or rightwing folks jump in, if ted cruz and rand paul start firing at each other and rubio gets in because hes mad that this happened, you could see that rightwing base, which definitely outnumbers at this point, the jeb bush wing of the party. Split the vote, circle the firing squad again and make room for another relative moderate. Hes not a moderate to me. What do you make of the fact that, lets see, howard dean endorsing last week and al franken from minnesota, a serious legislator. Hes endorsed hillary. Theyre not in the middle of the road. Theyre on the Progressive Side of things, both of them. The democratic wing of the democratic party, theyre backing hillary. Is this a way to staunch or stanch, however you pronounce the blood flow to Elizabeth Warren . Are they building a case to stop that movement to warren . I think they are. I think they also, you know, senator franken said today he knows Elizabeth Warren. He truly believes, as i do, that she doesnt want to run and shes not going to run. And so its a way to get people to get serious about whos in the race. I dont know who else may run. And Hillary Clinton may well have a challenger, but i think it also means that senator franken speaks for me in a lot of ways at this point. Hillary clinton is probably the most progressive person in the party who could get elected president. There may be people that are closer to us ideologically, but they would have a harder time running. I like the way you talk. Heres al franken. He seemed almost like spencer tracy. [ laughter ] no, really hes become the eminent squeeze. Here he is on msnbc today. I think that hillary would make a great president. I think that, you know, im ready for hillary. I mean, i think that weve not had someone this experienced, this tough, and as shes very, very impressive. Why is it smart for jeb to get in early and hillary to wait . Well, if that was enthusiasm, okay, ill take it. It was cerebral. Oh, is that what that was . It was spencer tracy. Oh, okay. But i want to pick up with i think hes very purposeful in the way hes very deliberate. Hes not cracking jokes. He was very, you know, let me be careful with every word i say. I got it. But this, i want to pick up on. I want to pick up on what joan just said about hillary and her situation. The problem that hillary has right now is that, Everyone Wants to focus on my conservatives. My ted cruzs and all the folks on the right. Shes got a similar problem on the left. As much as you can get al franken out there and others to sort of be that progressive voice on the left, thats not necessarily reflective of hillarys base. So hillary has to naveigate on the war, on wall street, just as jeb bush is going to have to navigate on education and immigration. Youre right, michael. Nobodys fighting with you. I know. But i just feel like i want to fight right now. Oh, okay. Merry christmas, buddy. And i do think shes got to reconcile herself with people like me on the war, and on wall street. I think you can be a moderate democrat without being in bed with wall street. But you better not be too entangled with them socially and the rest of the business. And it looks like youre showing for them if you start hanging out with them. Thank you both. Very smart tonight. Coming up, a horrific scene in pakistan where the taliban attacked a school and killed more than 140 people, most of them children. Well have the latest on this nightmare next. And the big debate in this country over torture. We have new polling on what may be the Biggest Issue of our time torture. This is hardball, the place for politics. You dont need to think about the energy that makes our lives possible. Because we do. Were exxonmobil and powering the world responsibly is our job. Because boiling an egg. Isnt as simple as just boiling an egg. Life takes energy. Energy lives here. Chris christie is taking a pounding on twitter because he sat at a luxury box with Dallas Cowboys owner jerry jones on sundays cowboys eagles game up in philly. Christie has been under attack by eagles fans who are known to get easily riled up. One councilman called christie a creep and told him to go home. The governor took to the radio to fight back. This was his quote. When youre across the river from philadelphia as a neighbor, you should have a little more common sense and respect for the rest of us. I have a big nose. Hes got a fat [ bleep ], its what life deals you. I dont know what that has to do about whether you root for the cowboys or the eagles. And i dont know about his nose. I dont know who this guy is. Theres lots of people who attempt to use me to increase their own fame. This guy today has used me to increase his own fame. Hes in newspapers all over the country. Good for him. Thats his job. Hes got to get somebody beside his parents to know who he is. So thats good. That was classic christie, to go after somebodys motives. Pretty restrained by his standards, some might say. Well be right back. And cialis for daily useor you. Helps you be Ready Anytime the moment is right. Cialis is also the only daily ed tablet approved to treat symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently. Tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. Do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. Do not drink alcohol in excess. 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Were learning more about that nightmarish attack on a school in pakistan today. At least seven Pakistani Taliban militants stormed the militaryrun school and killed 145 people, nearly all of them young students. As one parent described it to the associated press, my son was in uniform in the morning, hes in a casket now. My son was my dream. My dream has been killed. The taliban claimed responsibility and said it was retaliation for the militarys campaign against them, which began in the summer. In london, secretary of state john kerry condemned the attack. The images are absolutely gutwrenching. Young children carried away in ambulances, a teacher burned alive in front of the students. A house of learning turned into a house of unspeakable horror. Prime minister shareef said, these are my children, it is my loss. Well, this morning, wherever you live, wherever you are, those are our children. And this is the worlds loss. President obama said in a statement, our hearts and prayers go out to the victims, their families, and loved ones. By targeting students and teachers in this heinous attack, terrorists have once again shown their depravity. We stand with the people of pakistan and reiterate the commitment of the United States to support the government of pakistan in efforts to promote peace in the region. Richard, if you can, tell us what happened in that school about 17 hours ago. Weve spoken to military officials, weve spoken to survivors, witnesses. This attack unfolded and it was a massacre. It was a bloodbath, unfolded over about eight hours. It began local time around 10 40 in the morning. And a lot of the students were in assembly. Some taking an kpamp. Others were attending a career fair. And gunmen, all of them wearing suicide belts, cut through a fence, climbed over a fence, stormed into the assembly. At least one of the suicide attackers blew up his device. And then the others, at least six at this point, started opening fire indiscriminately. Then they fanned out through the classrooms. This was a large compound that had grades 1 through the end of high school. Most of the classrooms that they went to, were of the older students, the ones who were 16 to 18. And the militants just went room to room, firing as students tried to hide under their desks. They were shot in the legs, they were shot in the head. A lot of the students tried to barricade themselves into the classrooms. The militants forced their way in and continued their murder spree, for about an hour. Until the commandos arrived in helicopter. They landed in a soccer stadium not far away. They commenced an assault on the compound. But a lot of the rooms had been boobytrapped and it was difficult to enter. And a gunfight then lasted for the next seven hours or so as the military tried to clear the building. And then ultimately they did kill all of the militants, but the death toll was horrific. About 142 killed over 130 of them, students. While youre on, i want to ask you, youve lived in that region. Youre a great reporter over there. What can you tell us about the thinking of a person who would do this and believe they were the good guy . The logic is one of an eye for an eye, at least in their minds. The Pakistani Military, about six months ago, in the spring, began an offensive in northern waziristan. And this offensive in North Waziristan has been devastating. Weve seen images come out of there of some villages that have been flattened. All of the people forced out. And this part of North Waziristan is a taliban stronghold. So from their perspective, they believe that the Pakistani Military is killing our children. Were going to respond by targeting their children. And this school, weve called it an armyrun school. Its not a military academy. The students there arent learning to be cadets. It is a school that is a public school. Its open to civilians. But primarily it is for the children of the military. So, you asked what the logic is. The logic is, you kill us, well go find your children. Michael, your view and feelings about this. Well, chris, it goes without saying, my feelings are horror and astonishment. And just deep depression also that this is just seems to be something were spending almost on a daily basis, talking about stories like this, where suicidal fanatics are killing innocent people in places like schools or in, you know, coffee shops as we saw in sydney. This is the product of something that, you know, from the this is sort of the backlash to something that the u. S. Thinks is a good thing, which is this milit