Problems and with Mutual Respect and the upholding of the law for all, and respect for all lives. Thanks for watching. Im al sharpton. Hardball starts right now. Still out there. Lets play hardball. Good evening, im Chris Matthews out in los angeles. The manhunt continues tonight for the two men believed to have carried out the deadly terror attack in paris. The men are brothers both in their early 30s, born in paris to algerian born parents. One of them was convicted in 2008 for recruiting muslims to fight in iraq. There are reports that one of the brothers got training from al qaeda in yemen in 2011. Earlier today, two masked gunmen robbed a gas station northeast of paris. Police are going door to door in nearby villages searching for them. Also this morning in what may have been a copycat attack, a Police Officer was shot and killed by an assailant wearing a bulletproof vest. There are 88,000 security people taking part in the manhunt and investigation. And frances interior minister said that nine people were detained overnight for questioning. In paris today there was a remarkable site. The eiffel tower went dark. In tribute to the victims of the attack. Once again thousands poured into the streets in a show of solidarity. Three mosques were attacked around the country. Marie la pen, the leader ever the far right in in france called for a National Referendum to reinstitute the death penalty. She said it is islamists it
declared war against france. Im joined by Richard Engel in paris, and Pete Williams and also tom ridge, the former secretary of Homeland Security. Richard, the manhunt, hows it going . Well the french authorities believe that they have perhaps located the area where the suspects may be. But if you can listen to that sentence they dont know a whole lot. There was a dragnet under way. They hope that the suspects may be confined to an area north of paris, near a forest. But they are asking for tips. They are putting the suspects photographs on the television at the top of every hour. Theyre asking people to call in if they see or hear anything. They think they may have them cornered, but they really dont know. Tell us about the gas station holdup. What does that tell us about the
fugitives . We again this is based on one witness account. The gas station owner thought he saw people resembling the brothers description, involved in the stickup. He also thought he saw weapons and a car resembling the one that the suspects were using. But there have been so many rumors that have been floating around here because once the government activated the public there have been rumors on social media. Theres been a lot of misinformation. At one stage today, it was thought that the suspects were driving on a very main road on their way to paris. And we saw police here in paris scrambling to intercept these suspects. So frankly, we dont really even know if that gas station report is accurate. Its being treated seriously and that is one of the reasons that this manhunt is under way in
that area. But until they are found, we really wont know if they ever were in this neighborhood north of paris. Richard, tell us if you can about the crime scene in paris at the magazine headquarters. What does it look like to the people who came upon it . Today we spent a good deal of time at that corner. It is right in the center of paris. A lot of journalists have set up there. Their camera positions around it. But theres been a steady stream of people arriving bringing candles, flowers. I saw one person come today, she started crying as she was standing there quietly to herself. It has become a place where people come and say that they will not accept terrorism, that they will not be silenced. I saw one Woman Holding up a pencil. That has become a symbol of defiance against this act of
terrorism. So it is a memorial site now. Let me bring in Pete Williams. What do we know now about these people who are now fugitives . Two of them we heard about a third, a younger man who perhaps has turned himself in. Where does it all stand . In terms of the younger man, we just dont know. His friends have said he wasnt involved he was in school at the time. Theres suggestion that hes related to the two. But the french authorities have never made it clear what role they think he played. All day yesterday there was confusion about whether there were two people involved in the shooting or three. So we dont know about him. In terms of the older brothers theres a bit known about them because theyve been on the french radar for some time. Ones 34, ones 32. Was convicted in 2008 after he was arrested in 2005 planning to go to syria, and then into iraq to join in part of a cell of people that was recruiting young people from france to go fight against the u. S. In iraq. His lawyer said at the time that he was relieved that he was arrested because he got cold feet. But apparently during the 18 months that he was in prison he was changed. He came out perhaps much harder according to some of his friends. The Terror Police in france had him under some surveillance but as one of the officials and richard can probably pick this up today they eventually decided he wasnt worth watching anymore. Let me get back to richard on that, then ill go to tom, the former secretary for Homeland Security h war, they said. Then when cherif was put in jail, he was actually put in a prison cell with one of the most notorious algerian terrorists in custody in this country and became much more radicalized while incarcerated. It sounds like the worst case of people going to prison and coming back the worst criminals in the world because of the company theyve been forced to keep. Tom, thanks for joining us. Here we go again. It must resonate all through your being the challenge of surveillance, of security against the rights of freedom. Especially with the immigrant populations who are always sensitive to being profiled. Youre absolutely right. First of all, i think we finally have to admit to ourselves its a global scourge, number one, but the greatest notoriety is when they kill innocence in the western world, beheading journalists or humanitarian aid workers, going into the parliament in canada or assassinating cartoonists. The question is how do we minimize and reduce that risk . Is it a question of more surveillance . Is it a question of profiling . These are debates were going to have. But i also think it calls now more than ever for louder more sustained voices within the Muslim Community to assist us in this effort in finding solutions and reducing the risk that these
youths, who we better not think of them in western terms, because they do not embrace western values but quite frankly we know most muslims dont abide by the perverted and distorted interpretation of the koran. Let me get back to that problem. What do we do . If the talk now is of profiling in france and i can certainly understand, well talk about that later in the program with marie la pen and the national front. That would be one of the battle stations you take we have too many people who arent loyal to the republic. What should we do about them . They have capital punishment. I can understand that right now. Given the American Experience people come to our country, by and large, want to become americans, want to be treated like americans and should be. Then how do we make sure that some who come here without that intention are watched . Who have a negative intention toward our country. Chris, i think the answer to your country is really embedded in the way you ask the question. The bottom line is that in a democracy, a Multicultural Society like the United States and i think we do a much better job of integration and absorption, but you share values, and you tolerate people and you tolerate diversity and you accept freedom of speech. And any country, france great britain, United States we draw a horrible conclusion that says that anybody that embraces religion has adopted the mindset of these zealots. We have to start with that premise and not categorizing all muslim sbos one. Beyond that we need to reach out and start working much more closely, intimate way with the Muslim Community. One would wonder whether or not these zealots made their intentions known in their community and whether or not a fear of retribution or for whatever reason Law Enforcement authorities in france were not informed of that. Was there a disconnect between the Law Enforcement in that community and if there was, why did that exist. There are so many fundamental problems in terms of integrating that community into any democracy. Were going to have tho wrestle with it because its with us for a long long time. Lets go back to Pete Williams about the question of eric holder going over there and getting together with the interior minister in france pulling together a summit right now. What can be gains boo iy a gettingtogether of the western powers . I think part of the issue and this is something that holder has talked about before is this balance between on on the one hand and tom ridge went through this when he was homeland secretary the United States wanting to know as much information as possible for example, about people traveling, trying to get lists of passengers before the plane takes off. As opposed to the european approach, which has always been much more oriented toward privacy. And this is a continuing dialogue between the u. S. And the rest of europe especially. Although, as these attacks increase in scope in europe
that mood is very much beginning to change and the officials there are much more willing to share information. So thats one thing, information sharing. But secondly the mere fact theyre getting together goes back to what secretary ridge was talking about, that it is a global challenge. Ask and third, on this point of surveillance, it really say manpower issue. If you have an increasing number of people coming into your country that you think might be a terrorist, and you want to keep an eye on them 24 hours a day, there simply are not enough federal agents and police to do that. You have to make decisions about who are the biggest risks. It appears that the french decided that this young man, for whatever reason these two were not as big a risk put their attentions elsewhere, and now theyve got this decision to live with. And thats why we are. Thanks so much Pete Williams, Richard Engel and tom ridge. Coming up the attack in paris has united many in the creative community. Here in the United States jon
stewart and conan obrien are among those defending the right of free speech around the world. Plus some of the right led by Lindsey Graham of South Carolina are saying that president obama is personally to blame for the terror attacks. These are pretty strong statements and there are going to be more of them. And later new trouble for new jersey governor chris christie, a federal prosecutor hit his Reelection Campaign with a subpoena. More on his tactics coming up on hardball. And republicans are building their stockpile of arguments against, guess who . Former secretary of state Hillary Clinton. They must expect her to run. Theyre not waiting for the announcement. Theyre prepping for it right now tonight. This is hardball, the place for politics. Theyre still after me. Get to the terminal across town. Are all the green lights you . No. Its called grid iq. The 4 51 is leaving at 4 51. They cut the power. Itll fix itself. Powers back on. Quick thinking traffic lights and self correcting power grids make the world predictable. Thrillingly predictable. President obama made an unplanned stop to the French Embassy within the last hour. The president was returning from his trip in phoenix when he stopped by the embassy here in washington. In washington, to pay respects to the victims of yesterdays attack. He signed a condolence book and
expressed his solidarity with the french people. And well be right back after this. To your company, your customers and all your data. Stopped by the embassy here in dge from aig is more than insurance. Its Proactive Technology and specialists to help keep you ahead of the curve. Claims specialists and advisors to protect you as cyber risks evolve. Cyberedge to help you change the internet of risk into the internet of opportunity. Shopping online is as easy as it gets. Wouldnt it be great if hiring plumbers, carpenters and even piano tuners were just as simple . Thanks to angies list now it is. Weve made hiring anyone from a handyman to a dog walker as simple as a few clicks. Buy their services directly at angieslist. Com no more calling around. No more hassles. Start shopping from a list of toprated providers today. Angies list is revolutionizing local service again. Visit angieslist. Com today. In this country, we just take it for granted that its our right to poke fun at the untouchable or the sacred. But todays tragedy in paris reminds us very viscerally that its a right some people are inexplicably forced to die for. Welcome back to hardball. Conan obrien there, one of many comedians expressing solidarity with those murdered at that satirical magazine. They all stepped out of their comedic roles to reflect on the power of free speech and satire. Our hearts are with the staff of charlie edbow and their families tonight. I know very few people go into comedy as an act of courage, mainly because it shouldnt have
to be that. It shouldnt be an act of courage. It should be taken as established law. But those guys at hedbo had it and they were killed for their cartoons. Im a satirist who deals with this subject particularly, its kind of scary. Tina fey was at a Television Critics press conference was asked about the attacks and their effect on free speech particularly satire. She said we all Must Stand Firm on the issue of free speech. Were americans. Even if its just dumb jokes in the interview, we have the right to make them. And cartoonists around the world weighed in as well. This was a portion of the report by nbcs lester holt. In an expression of solidarity cartoonists around the world have penned their own tributes. Je suis charlie reads this one. Another shows a paintbrush writing the words down with
terrorism. And this one shows a weeping charlie brown. Joining me now is liz win stead, cocreator of the daily show. And ted johnson, Senior Editor of variety. Liz, what do you feel about these people who went to work the other day in an editorial room thinking about how to be creative and sarcastic, doing what we do for a living in many cases and getting gunned down for that . For that. I feel how so many of those comics expressed it brilliantly. I think, for me if feels like when you deal with sacred cows and you are a satirist and your goal is to not just be funny, but to expose hypocrisy, and now when you look at the world, chris, you know what its like. When you add the internet and twitter and facebook and so much rage and anger and youre taking all that on it feels extra
scary. Bill maher was right. It feels like when you see hypocrisy in the nra, whether its zealots from climate deniers. Whether its the antiabortion zealots. When you want to take the sacred cows on and you see every step of the way that theres been violence even in our own communities, it feels really scary. Ted, youre thinking about the community in l. A. , in hollywood. Yeah. This is coming just on the heels of what happened with the interview. I think the worry certainly is of danger over you know even satire. Theres a lot more arab terrorists out there, even if theyre only a small part of the community than north koreans. Exactly. But theres also this counterworry that yes, theres awareness, yes, there is this unity in the wake of the paris bombings, but this is going to make studio executives this is going to make financiers even
more skittish to take on some of these projects. Theyre not going to even finance them in the first place, theyre not going to green light them, because theyll look at it and say, its just not worth it. Some of these projects its hard enough making money, but when you add on top of that the idea that you face this little from terror so all the bad guys are going to be gary busey . I was thinking of true lies the schwarzenegger movie where they show a terrible portion of a terrorist. Theyre not good guys. Let me talk to you about sarcasm in satire. We all grew up with it. I remember going to a Football Game back in the 60s where holy cross played harvard and somebody from harvard, some wise guy was running around dressed like the Cardinal Cushing of boston shaking holy water on everybody. And then we played army in west point and i had some friends of
mine, went out there and made fun of the soldiers at west point and we got away with it. I mean, this hij inks is sort of who we are. Its not just professional. Its the way you get through life laughing at things. Thats right. And i think that the second theres a Chilling Effect i mean i personally the studio system and hollywood havent been green lighting all sorts of edgy comedies for the most part. Theyre always pretty safe in that which is why these interesting places you know like the satirical magazine in paris, are independently run. Like some of our best social critics are the ones who have done it on their own terms and have been able to do it on their own terms. Prediction now. It seems like taken, the first was great. They had to find the weirdest
bad guy, so they get the albanians. You got to find the most exotic bad guys. I think well see more of wall street financiers as the bad guys. Thats always the easiest one to fall back on. Or the amish because they have zero technology. Great movie. And the amish looked very good in that movie. I hope we can maintain our freedom to be sarcastic. And i hope we keep it.