Responded carrying out bombing raids against isis targets. Italy warned that isis is at the door now of europe. Maria with the american state department. This is getting close. And i think the italians, you know, who had some land in Northern Africa over the years before, are beginning to feel them at their curb side now. What do we do as americans when we look at 21 christians beheaded for the purposes of humiliating us, the christian world, the western world . Its aimed at us, those pictures. I think it underscores to people that it isnt just a fight in iraq and syria and its not just a fight about dropping bombs on terrorists. Its how we stop the causes that lead to extremism in a place like libya, where theres no governance, letting isis grow and flourish there, which is what we saw with this awful situation. But its a longer fight, fighting them on social media. Theyre using social media to get converts to their cause and to spread their hatred all over the world. This week, well have over 60 countries in washington to talk about combatting this violent extremism together in the longterm. How do we win . How do we stop this . I see the shia militias coming out of baghdad. The sunnis hate them. Theyre loyal to isis rather than go with the shia. You have the kurds, and the egyptian air force, but i dont see if i were isis, i wouldnt be afraid. They can keep finding places to hold executions and putting the camera work together, getting their props ready and killing people for show and nothing we do right now seems to be directed at stopping this. Well, i think theres a few stages here. Right now what were doing is trying to take their leaders and their fighters off the battlefield in iraq and syria, where they flourish. Are we killing enough of them . Were killing a lot of them and well kill more. So are the egyptians and the jordanians. But we cannot kill our way out of this war. We need to go after the root causes that leads people to join these groups, whether its lack of opportunity for jobs, whether were not going to be able to stop that in your lifetime. Theres always going to be poor people and poor muslims, and the trumpets blowing and theyll join. We cant stop that, can we . We can work with countries around the world to build their governance and their economies. Youre right, theres no easy solution in the longterm to preventing violent extremism, but if we can help countries around the world to build their governance and their economies. Youre right, theres no easy solution in the longterm to preventing violent extremism, but if we can help countries work at the root causes of this. What makes a 17yearold kid pick up an ak47, instead of trying to start a business . Maybe we can chip away at the problem, while going after the threat, taking on isil in iraq, in syria, and helping our partners around the world. This sounds like were going to get rid of juvenile delinquency in america by erasing poverty. Sure, over time. But the American People are getting humiliated morally by this. Seeing these pictures, and what are you supposed to say and do about this . Theyre watching right now. What do they do to stop these indecent killing of people . The burning alive of the good pilot, the whatever they did to the American Woman over there, whatever they did, whatever theyre doing to these people, beheading them, what are we doing to stop this . It sounds like we cant stop it. They should know that the United States military is taking direct action in iraq and syria. Were taking their leaders out. Were taking out their financing, their training camps. This is a long fight, chris. But i also think, not to take it to politics for a second, but they should tell their elected leaders to support the aumf that we sent to congress. Im with you on that. I think theres a lot of politicians left, right, and center hiding in the bushes right now. They dont want their fingers on this war because theyre afraid it might not be pleasant. War is never pleasant, chris. Thank you for joining us. Im joined now with evan coleman and michael kay, former british officer. Evan first, to answer my complaint here, americans watch television, they watch it on their computers, iphones, they get these pictures from isis and libya of people being executed, burned alive, whatever else. This is going to continue and i wonder how the American People will react to this. They dont want to become passive, useless, morally somehow compliant in this. Because if you dont do anything, most americans say, if were not doing anything, were part of the problem. Your thoughts . Back in 2004, we had a similar problem. Fallujah under control of al qaeda in iraq, they took it and turned it into a slaughter house. It took a lot of u. S. Military force to get them out of there. And we ended it. We ended that period of executions. What we found there was horrifying. Im not a big advocate of putting american boots on the ground when theyre not absolutely necessary. But i think we have to really carefully weigh our options here. Back in 2005, president bush said there were 160,000 iraqi troops ready for action. Many of whom were ready for independent action. That was ten years ago. Theres still no iraqi army. If were relying on the iraqi army or Syrian Rebels to take care of this problem, it will never get fixed. So whatever we choose, whatever strategy we choose, lets at least choose a strategy thats not doomed from the start. And anyone that has looked at the last five to ten years of iraqi history and think or syrian history and thinks this strategy is going to work is a fool. Let me go to michael kay on that point. That is the quality of the iraqi army. Its apparently now getting smaller. Ever since they were overrun a while back by isis, they havent been in a fighting mood and have been replaced, overwhelmed now by the shia militia, who are the real people fighting isis. And thats a tough one. What side are we on with that one . The shia militia or with isis . And what are the sunni thinking . Would they choose the shia against their own religion . Would they . Just going to your initial point of the height of the training and equip program in 2008 and 2009. There was over 200,000 in the iraqi army, which is a significant amount. Today we see the iraqi army has around 45,000. The ministry of interior forces in iraq have around 45,000, and you have Popular Mobilization forces, shiabacked, coming up from the south and iran. And theyre comprised hezbollah and the baiter organization. Actions have consequences. Theres a reason for lack of governance and thats because of a natoled air campaign in 2011 which wiped out of all of the government structures from the army to police and created this security vacuum. I had the pleasure of interviewing and meeting al sissi, the egyptian president last april in cairo. We told me, one of his big concerns on his eastern flank, he had an insurgency brewing and same thing on the western because of actions we took without a rebuilding program post the air strikes. The situation in libya is very complex. You have two main islamist groups. The libyan dawn is backed by qatar and one of the main islamists from libya hides in qatar at the moment. You have islamic groups and the regional backing of iran, saudi, qatar, and the uae. Again, going back to the holistic approach, were running around like headless chickens at the moment. Were reactive. We have to take a proactive stance, engage politically, and make sure were not creating governance vacuums like in 2003 in iraq and 2011 in libya to start with. I want to go back to evan on that, because, you know, we were warned, you know, that we were breaking apart these governments. We broke apart certainly the government of syria. Weve been doing that in the process of doing that. We eliminated the government of iraq, which was a dictatorship, but it held the sunni and shia together. We had gadhafi, who was a bit of a clown, but better a clown than what we have now. We had the front line states against israel which were basically a joke, they were no threat to israel, certainly not even a strategic threat. Now we have this hell broken loose. We can use the term of jeb bush, relitigate it. But what do we do now . The countries are broken. Its extremely difficult and disappointing when you look at libya, which showed some promise. It looked like some of the fighters there might be proamerican or prowestern and i think some of them are. In libya, we did half the job. We bombed targets, once gadhafi crumbled, we disappeared. And said to the libyans, you do everything yourself. And how we expected people that had no history of democratic governance to come up with a democratic government overnight that would function perfectly, again was the ideal of a complete fool. You cant just bomb people. You have to bomb people and then provide some kind of framework for moving on. Same mistake in iraq in 2003. We destroyed the iraqi infrastructure, wiped out the army and had no blueprint to the move forward. I want to go back to marie. You were shaking your head. It seems like colin powell was right. He said you broke it, you bought it. Weve broken all these governments from iraq, afghanistan, libya, half a government and whats left in syria and theyre all broken apart, and weve become the gendarme and were fighting isis. Isis is here. Until we get rid of it, its going to be here to stay. My question, where do we go from here . I think what everyone was saying is too simplistic. In libya and syria, we supported people who were rising up in their own country to try to get a better future. I remember the time people saying we were too slow to support them. What government . Libya . In libya and syria. Around the middle east, when we were talking about the arab uprising, different than iraq. Complete different. People were saying america should stand by these people looking to stand up against gadhafi. The question is, what we do now. I can guarantee you there are people at the state department and across this government working with the libyans to help them chart a better course, but we cant do it for them, nor should we. And it is very complex. Were paying the price of their disaster. We are paying the price. Chris, if i can certainly, michael. If i can jump in, in terms of where we go in the future, having spent a bit of time in cairo, one of the things we need to do is look at egypt as a strategic pivot. They went through an important revolution, which turned away an islamic caliphate proposal from morsi. I think thats important in the ideology were looking to fight at the moment. We need to empower al sissi. And take away the idea of Central Government like in afghanistan for the last ten years. What i mean, empowering kabul to reach out to the districts when youre looking at a country that binds tribal entities that Transcend National boundaries. We need to go back to a decentralized templates that recognizes the cultures and histories of entities in these countries for hundreds of thousands of years. That would be a good place to start. This is not going to end tonight or for months or years. Coming up, jeb bush doesnt want to talk about iraq and afghanistan. The republican frontrunner is delivering a Foreign Policy speech this week, but he said he wont talk about the past. Can he refuse to talk about his brothers wars . Plus, its the best of times and the worst of times from Hillary Clinton. Polls show she faces no competition for the democratic nomination. But being so far out in front means that every meal ticket in the party is looking to her for a job. And 40 years of saturday night live was celebrated last night, including appearances by dozens of former cast members. Also a few surprise guests. Next question. Next question. Yes, tina . No, its sarah. Sarah palin. Yes, sorry. Sorry. Oh, my gosh, of course, governor palin, welcome. I was just curious, jerry, how much do you think Lorne Michaels would pay me if i were to run in 2016 . Run for president , sarah, i dont think theres a number too big. Anyway, well have more of the highlights coming up. And let me finish tonight with the horror we face on the nearest tv or laptop, its isis. This is hardball, the place for politics. Shopping online is as easy as it gets. Wouldnt it be great if hiring plumbers, carpenters and even piano tuners were just as simple . Thanks to angies list now it is. Weve made hiring anyone from a handyman to a dog walker as simple as a few clicks. Buy their services directly at angieslist. Com no more calling around. No more hassles. Start shopping from a list of toprated providers today. Angies list is revolutionizing local service again. Visit angieslist. Com today. Well, new polls from nbc news show Hillary Clinton with strong leads over possible competitors for 2016. In iowa, secretary clinton has a 56 point lead over biden. Bernie sanders is close behind these two with 7 . Jim webb of virginia hanging in there with 1 . Hillary clinton is still on top with 69 in New Hampshire, but sanders has a slight edge over the vp among registered voters. Well be right back. Welcome back to hardball. For mainstream republicans, theres a battle between the old and the new. Jeb bush is the old. Scott walker is the new kid on the block. Bush and walker are the only gop president ial hopefuls to reach double digits in the first three 2016 contests, including iowa. The new poll found a similar story in New Hampshire and south carolina, making them the frontrunners. But jeb has the baggage of the bush family name and an historic record of that. Reminders of w. s Foreign Policy are haunting his younger brother. In 2013, he was put on the defensive about his brothers handling of the war in iraq. And here was his response. A lot of things in history change over time. I think people will respect the resolve that my brother showed, both in defending the country and the war in iraq. That sounds like e for effort. Anyway, last week we asked how jeb would handle iraq and afghanistan differently. The former Florida Governor said that he wont heres a new phrase i dont like relitigate. Hes not even a lawyer. Lets listen to jeb. I wont talk about the past. Ill talk about the future. If im in the process of considering the possibility of running, its not about relitigating anything in the past. Its about trying to create a set of principles and ideas that will help us move forward. Well, jeb also said he wont look backwards when it comes to Foreign Policy, but will focus on the future. Lets watch. We have some big, hairy, complicated things we need to fix, and one of those is what the role of america is in the world, to protect our safety and security, but also to promote security and peace around the world. I think we can be a force for good. Hairy problems. Anyway, heres the question. Can bush hide from bushs war . Michael, contributor to the daily beast and ron reagan author and msnbc analyst. Good to see you back with a tan. Youve got a famous name, but youve never ran for anything. How can bush run from bushs war . I dont get it. How does he not talk about it . Hillary has to talk about her positions in the past, doesnt he . Yes, its amazing politicians dont want to talk about certain subjects. Scott walker doesnt want to talk about evolution. Marco rubio doesnt want to talk about how old the earth is and jeb bush doesnt want to talk about the past. I imagine hes being selective. Hell want to critique the obama administration, which would be delving into the past. And his governorship of florida, which is also in the past. He doesnt want to talk about things in the past that are uncomfortable to him, afghanistan and iraq, but he wont be able to avoid that because were still dealing with the fallout from iraq and afghanistan. Hell get leeway in terms of critiquing his brother personally. People understand its family and that would be awkward for him. But he wont be able to distance himself from those wars. Hell have to demonstrate that he understands that list brother made mistakes. And he cant say mistakes, because a passive voice wont work. What do you think of the u. S. Policy toward iraq starting in 2001 . Just ask him about the policy. Dont even mention his brothers name. Just ask him that. But hes going to say, or he should say, if hes being honest, i supported it, because he did support it. He signed that pdac letter bill crystals . Yes. He came out for the iraq war, and he has since spoken in some of the clips that you played in favor of the war. So thats a position hell have to defend and talk about all the consequences of the war, including isis, that you talked about in your first segment. Isis grew out of that war. I think iran, everybody watching this show, maybe not, some people on the hard left are proclinton will say, i dont want a real contest in 2016. I want the republicans to put up a joker, a clown who cant possibly win, therefore our candidate will walk into the white house. I think the American People deserve a freaking choice for once. Of two people they can imagine as president , then they watch the debates and make up their mind. But a lot of people are hoping jeb bush will turn out to be the guy not like his brother, more like his father, more of a realist, and less of a crazed ideologue who sits around waiting for cheney to tell him what to do. But hes going to have to grapple with the recent past and deal with the blowback that weve experienced. Isis is a perfect example, of course from the wars in iraq and maybe less so in afghanistan. These are realities that hes going to have to grapple with. You mean to tell me, if it hadnt been for us breaking up iraq and then almost breaking up syria, and breaking up libya, if we hadnt created that running room for isis, if we hadnt turned those generals and all the other officers out of the iraqi army and sent them out there for nowhere, that there wouldnt have been a recruitment by the extremes of islamism . You mean it has a cause and effect, bad Foreign Policy leading to worse consequences . Are you arguing that . Eventually there would have been an isis because the situation in the middle east is what it is. But it might not be in iraq or syria right now. It precipitated that. There was no al qaeda or isis in iraq before we invaded. Thats simply a fact. So we created the animosity, hostility and the brokendown government. I look back at this and say, give me the generals, the army in egypt, like sadat and those people. It was about their country, it wasnt something that we had to contend with. Your thoughts . There arent any good choices. Michael kay knows what hes talking about, saying we should buddy up with al sissi, but hes a pretty bad dictator. Th