Not a lot of banter. Focused on the competition. Watch mondays episode. Time to say sayonara. Coming up, hardball with Chris Matthews. Bernies roman holiday. Lets play hardball. Good evening, im Chris Matthews in washington, just four days of the new york primary, Bernie Sanders has taken his message overseas to the vatican. Speaking today at a conference, hosted by the pontiffcal associates. Using familiar themes, he slammed wall street, big bangs and citizens united, but reframed his message to restore the soul of this country. But as both pope john paul,
ii and pope francis have warned us and the world, the con questions have been more dire than the disastrous effects and falling Living Standards of working class families. Our very soul, our very soul as a nation has suffered. As the public has lost faith in political and social institutions. As pope francis has stated, and i quote, profoundly stated, man is not in charge today. Money is in charge. Money rules. Well, but as of late friday, vatican time, as far as we know, no meeting has occurred between pope francis and Bernie Sanders. The pope is scheduled by the way to leave for greece early in the morning. Its unlikely theyll get together. Joining me now is ann thompson. Thanks for joining me over there. Its late at night. Why did did he get invited by the pope . No. He got invited by the bishop that runs this. This is not an invitation from pope francis. Its not even necessarily approved by pope francis. The pontiffcal academy is a think tank that operate here at the vatican. The first one was founded back in the 1500s. This was was 1594. A group of people from all over the world, some are catholic, many are not. They come together to discuss big ideas, if you will. What they were discussing today is the 25th anniversary that saint john paul, ii wrote about the worlds economy after the fall of communism. What has happened in the world socially, economically and politically in the last 25 years, and then secondly, what
his catholic teaching done about the issues and what can it do in the future. So this is like an italian or catholic renaissance weekend. Exactly. Thats a good way to think of it. Okay. Great having you on the show. But what is interesting okay. What is interesting is that pope francis sent a handwritten message to the conference today, apologizing for not going. Now, all week long, weve been told by papal spokes people that the conference was not on the popes schedule. He in this handwritten note said he had hoped to stop by earlier this evening, but because he has got an early flight to lesbos, greece, he just could not fit it in. And i think its unusual for two reasons. One, a handwritten note. And two, we didnt think he was at least we were told by his official spokes people he wasnt going at all. Note, also, this letter was addressed to all the participants of the conference, and not just one individual. Thank you so much, ann thompson, reporting from rome. Any way, the brawl in new york, of course if youve watched it, the nastiest to date. Last nights debate was nasty. In a new tv ad hammers wbr id wbr2742 home his attacks. Lets look. Wall street banks shower with speaking fees. What do they get . A rigged economy. A corrupt finance system. While washington officials are paid over 200,000 for a speech, they oppose raising the wage to 15 an hour. b clinton has widened her lead over sanders, now up by wbrid wbr3042 17 points, 57 to 40 . Im joined by Barbara Boxer who supports Hillary Clinton. You think somebody would tell the ad writers that u. S. Senators are not allowed to take speaking fees for any reason. Its against the rules for decades now. They act like this is the norm thats responsible to what they call a rigged economy. Well, absolutely. When Hillary Clinton took fees, it was legal. She was not part of the government. The whole thing is outrageous. And all i could say about my friend, bernie, and boy, ive worked with him forever, and ive worked with hillary forever. Here is a guy who promised to never run a negative ad. I just went through my notes. He promised it. All his people. Bernie, he talks about himself in the third person. Bernie sanders has never run a negative ad. Here it comes. There is one thing worst than a
negative ad, and thats when somebody does it when they promised they wouldnt do it. I hope he comes back from rome happier. He was so grumpy. Ive never seen him this way. The minute hillary was prepared to speak, call on me, call on me. I have never seen anything quite like it. I know. It was, to me, the defining moment as to why, you know, lets come together, lets get behind hillary. And i think just judging from some of his outrageous attacks on her, both personally on television, his brand is being damaged, and i think the new yorkers are going to choose hillary very strongly. Let me ask you. I hope so. The poll support what you said, she is up well above double digits. I Read Everything today, like you Read Everything. It looked to me like people think hillary was damaged, even though he was a bit tough on her, to put it lightly, very
tough. And this is his last chance. He does need to do well in new york. He is damaging her down the road. Do you believe that . He is putting permanent wounds on her the republicans, like trump or cruz will exploit . Of course theyre going to exploit it. But hillary will stand tough and stand tall. She has gotten worst. The bottom line is everybody is attacking her. Every republican candidate. And Bernie Sanders said he would not. It is stunning to see this happening to my friend, bernie. As i say, i hope he comes back, having been in the holy land, very in the vatican, i hope he comes back with a different attitude, with a more centered attitude. With a more reasonable attitude. She really held her ground. And i was just very proud of her. And you know, i cant get over the fact that he said she was unqualified. I have to say rhetorically, does anyone think he would have said joe biden was unqualified if joe biden was running. Joe biden supported the war. Joe biden, you know, lived by the Campaign Finance system. So it was just a terrible thing to say about her. And that kind of kept got the ball rolling downhill. We need to come together. We all want the same things. A better life for our people. We dont have to attack people by income groups or whatever. Lets just work together. Because when we do, you know, thats what makes america great, to quote is someone else. The great senator from the state of california. Its always great to have you on. Thanks for coming on tonight. Thanks so much. By the way, Hillary Clinton in a positive tv ad. Well see who is winning nationally. Touting her endorsements from new york newspapers, like the daily news. Here is what she does. You get endorsed, you sell it on tv. Here it is. On tuesday, weve got wbr id wbr5395 a big b
decision to make. The New York Daily News and the New York Times already made theirs. Both endorse Hillary Clinton for president. Clinton is supremely knowledgeliable and results driven. New yorks choice for president , Hillary Clinton. Im joined by the former president of the naacp, and vis visiting professor at princeton. Let me ask you about these ads. Do you think theyre fair . Going after hillary saying she is bought . Jeff weaver is out there saying she wbrid wbr5705 has a pact with the devil, the other bad guy saying she is a bought woman. I mean, how personal can you get in a campaign, except somebody has been bought, on the take . She needs to release the transcripts. Okay. What do you mean she needs to. When is bernie going to release his tax returns . That should be done by the way, the argument my wife is rg working on. Fair enough, its fair for 2015. I know all about this. The day youre supposed to bring in your tax returns. Is jane sanders still working on 2012, 2013. She is pulling together the fires. It has been an extraordinary year. Youre buying that they couldnt just xerox their old tax returns. Theyre the most normal couple that has run for president. What is complicated about showing your old tax returns . What . Getting back through the files. Lets talk about the issues, the big issue here. 225 bucks. I dont think you believe it. 225,000, and they bring you back three times. I know there is a who pays you for a sfeech and brings you back again and again, unless theyre investing in say. She sold her soul . Its not sold her soul, its very, very curious that she
wont wont release it. I say it on the air whenever i think of it. If its better than it looks, theyll show you. If it is worst when it looks, they wont. If a politician is keeping something from the public, whether its tax returns, auto speaking transcripts, they know putting it out will be worst than keeping it private. They know the hit they take, the assumption that its worst. Thats why they keep it. It is worst. Let me ask you about this. Are you a democratic . Of course. You are not a socialist . I am a its as a big word this year. Whats the difference between a socialist and democratic . A lot of people are voting and youre hearing these words, not in a cold war sense, but what does socialist mean to you . In this race what does it mean to you . Bernie is not a socialist. He is a democratic social list. Were new deal democrats. No, no, bernie was asked last night, are you a democratic, he hedged it and said im running as a democratic. He is a democratic. He still says he says im running as a democratic. Bernie is a democratic. He has never run as a democratic. He has he has never run as a democratic. Jesse jackson in 1988, which primary which primary . He ran the democratic, who delivered vermont for him . Bernie sanders. Why did he stray from the democratic party, because of the establishment, conservative democrats in vermont did not like what this young turk, who was for Jesse Jackson was about. You know, gets into real early fights. Thats when he realized he was a socialist, when he was reject rejected by the party. He was an independent, and this comes up for youre talking about im raising this issue. If someone cares about the future of the democratic party, no matter who wins, they want unity come the fall, right. Sure. Im not sure, listening to
radio and watching this, people are saying things from the bernie side of things, well, a lot of our young people are not really democrats, we dont flow if theyre going to back hillary if she wins the nomination. What do you think . Activists, you cant lead them but you cant control them. What is your hunch about the people youre working with . Do you think there will be a problem . Folks who im working with, you know, i think intend to support the democratic come this fall. But when i talk to a lot of young activists, theyre talking about jill steen in the green party. The reality is that we cannot command and control young activists. We need to respect them. Thats why hillary and bill disrespecting them when. In philly, black lives matter. That guy was coming at him, too. Im not defending his words. Then ashley, the former,
black lives matter, down in she was so dismissive of. You cant do that. I know. Also an older person younger person thing going on. You cant put somebody down just because theyre younger than you. Any way, thank you, ben. Thank you. You have case to make. Democracy, a better fight. Donald trump makes his case against ted cruz and the delegate process, come july in cleveland. Can they nominate someone other than trump i. E. , still on top with votes and delegates, how do you fight the word democracy . Also on the show, the bill clinton factor, one of americas most popular politicians, awful quiet in this campaign. He doesnt want to make news. Somebody said dont make news. But he is out there. Lets take a look right there at the role of the former and possibly future occupant of the white house. You know, the first spouse gets
to live there too. On this friday night, the empire state primary will tell me something i dont know, which is always great. I always learn something. This is hardball, the place for politics. Ive been blind since birth. I go through periods where its hard to sleep at night, and stay awake during the day. Learn about non24
by calling 8448442424. Or visit my24info. Com. Ted cruz made an appearance with jimmy fallon, and among the topics discussed were cruzs debating skills. And this. One of your skills i would say is that youre fantastic at debates. Youre good at that. Now, and which is all great, but my question to you ill tell you, in college, that really attracted the women. It really did. It was you know, if you want to argue about nato policy in a bar, i mean, its a great pickup line. Yeah, look at this, guys. Youre not going to believe this. This is in your year book. They wrote this about you or you wrote it . Sadly that was me. You wrote this. I mean, really, this is fascinating. Ted hopes to attend princeton
university, law school, harvard. Check. Achieve a successful law practice. Check. Pursue his real goal, a career in politics. Check. Run for and win president of the united states. [ applause ] thats unbelievable. Thats unbelievable. That is totally utterly believable, jimmy. Thats what i thought of the guy the day i saw him. Well be right back. We have a rigged system. The republican system is rigged. Okay, its a rigged system. And you look at colorado, where theyre having a big march later or something is happening. But the people are angry. I would have done great in colorado. The people didnt know in colorado that their vote was being taken away from them, and let me tell you, you have some angry people in colorado right
now. If you want to know the truth, its a beautiful thing to watch, because they are 100 right. Welcome back, donald trump has come back with a rallying cry he thinks is a winner, democracy. On stage, on television, and op ed, frontrunner rallying against the corrupt and rigged delegate process of the republican party. He said were not seeing a proper use of the rules. Theyre supposed to reflect the decision of the voters. It is being rigged by Party Operatives by delegates who reject the decision of voters, political insiders have had their way for a long time. Let 2016 let the American People finally got theirs. While trumps opponents say the rules are the rules. I understand that sometimes people may not like the process, but the facts are the process was very open and transparent for all to see and all to follow. Now if a campaign doesnt stay
up on that, then thats on them. Not on us. I understand that when you dont get the outcome that you want in any scenario, circumstance, whether a sporting event or political contest, immediately cry foul and blame the process. When the process has benefited them, they dont seem to complain too much. Well, jim richards, the editor in chief endorsed Governor John Kasich for president , or for the nomination at least. Colleen Mccain Nelson is for the wall street journal. I want you to all deal with this political question, which trump is raising. He is arguing the word democracy out there. I sort of go along with him, which is it is very hard to tell the American People after years and years who decides the nomination, even though it is technically decided by the delegates at the convention. After years and years of learning that, we tell the American People, well, its done by the delegates it he convention, unless you have requisite number, majority of
delegat delegates, you dont win, even though you could be ahead. Reeducate the American People and how its easier to be trump. Thats what i think. What do you think . I think for once, donald trump might have a bit of a point. And i think the same point extends over to the other side of the ticket, you know, with the super delegate debate thats been going on over the past few weeks there as well. The problem with it is, its difficult to address what seemed to be flaws in the system, you know, six or seven months out before the general election is about ready to take place. So again, there might be some legitimacy there, but the time to have that conversation and the time to think about overhauling or tweaking the system is problem not now. Ed, your view as chairman, youre not taking sides, but youre going to deal with the fights as they approach the convention. Ill tell you, look, donald trump learned a lot from this. He needs to have a deeper
organization Going Forward if he is going to not only win the nomination, but you nate the convention and particularly, to win the general election. Well, suppose you were in Reince Priebus shoes, theyre probably too small for you, and you had to announce sometime in cleveland, a week before, yes, donald trump has 1,100, blah, blah, blah number of votes, and he is close to getting the majority, but were going to have a vote. If he doesnt have the 1,237, all bets are off. All bets are not off. The last time it happened, tom dewey, he was close, got closer on the second and won on the third. That could happen with donald trump as well. If you want a really good precedent ed, youre great at this. Youre pro at this, but youre the first person who has ever said that to me. I consider myself a bit of a historian. Youre going back to 48, you werent born yet. Youre telling me with casualty, doesnt everybody know this. Compare it to the 1968 convention, my first convention, 21yearold, and ill tell you, it was almost the same. Take out the personality, three parties, one governor recently reelected coming in late, saying i got the polls, i can win. And the middle, someone says i got the silent majority, called it that later, and on the right, you had a solid conservative named Ronald Reagan back then. Now its senator cruz. Very much the same if you take out the personality. Results could be the same. First ballots. Lets bring in colleen. History is there, but if you have to cite it 40 or 50 years, thats history. Oh, that happened before i was thinking about it, therefore, thats history. Right. How do you make the case against democracy if he yells democracy. A lot of voters are surprised
to learn that the person who gets the most votes doesnt necessarily win. Doesnt necessarily get the most delegates, and so trump is making a compellin