Good evening. Im Chris Matthews in washington where the big news in the republican race is the new john kasich, ted Cruz Alliance to deny trump the nomination but questions whether it can last. In pack to pack strepress relea it was said the goal is to have an open convention according to row, our campaign will focus time and resources in indiana and in turn, clear the path for governor kasich to compete in oregon and new mexico. Well, a few minutes later weaver wrote were comfortable with our delegate position in indiana already and given the dynamics, well shift resources west and give cruz, the Cruz Campaign a clear path in inldiana. Cruz insisted he wasnt telling supporter to vote for cruz, only that he would not campaign in indiana. So the voters have to figure this out. Trump labeled the agreement collusion and said it was a
horrible act of desperation. Did you see the news today where they ban together and collude . Its collusion. Boo if you collude in business, if you collude in business or if you collude in the stock market, they put you in jail but in politics, because its a rigged system, because its a corrupt enterprise, in politics youre allowed to collude. So they colluded and actually i was happy because it shows how weak they are. It shows how pathetic they are. Well, were waiting right now for a Live Campaign event from both cruise and trump we expect any minute now but now a quick personal note. Tomorrow i will be off for my usual role anchoring Election Night coverage with brian and rachel. My wife kathleen is a candidate for u. S. Congress and tomorrow is the primary election so
naturally ill be with her and our family on our big night. For todays big stories, the alliance of kasich and cruz. Ted cruz was asked this morning about the deal with kasich and said it made sense to both campaigns. Lets watch the senator. We had conversations and both campaigns agreed to focus on energies, were focussing energy on the state of indiana and governor kasich is focussing energies elsewhere. I think that is a decision, an allocation of resources that makes a lot of sense and devoted to the principle of beating Hillary Clinton in november and turning this country around. John kasich meanwhile insists he wasnt telling supporters not to vote for him. Lets watch. My team met with the people and said its fair. I dont see this as any big deal other than the fact that im not doing to spend resources at indiana. Hes not going to spend them in other places. So what. Whats the big deal . Ive never told them not to vote for me. They ought to vote for me. Im not over the campaign and spending resources. We have limited resources. Well, thats honest. We have limited resources, running out of money. Charlie, advisor to john kasich right here and ricks National Political director, an honor to have you guys on. The Blues Brothers are back, charlie. You guys are running the show. Let me ask you about kasich. I keep hearing cruz, kasich, is this kasich, cruz or cruz, kasich. Who is on top . Who is the boss . Listen, speaking for john kasich, he will not be Vice President for anyone. He says he has a better job than that now as governor of ohio and he does but plans to be president. So listen, this is nothing unusual. Who do you want okay. Mr. Trump acts like he discover there had is gambling in casa blanca. Campaigns in multi candidate races frequently cooperate ad
hawk on a temporary basis and an estate or two the trump people and the kasich people. Maybe will be forced to because this is hardball. What is your candidate . Do you think of the double teaming of trump as hes about to win, it looks like, five states tomorrow and my hunch is this isnt going to work. Hes going in indiana as well in and knock the opponents. Indiana is ted cruz to lose. He said he will win indiana. Elope on it . Yeah. Try it here. Ignore that . I like at this trump is ahead. I look at this and say its falling apart. There was a month ago why did you say its cruz to lose 41 33 out there. Ted cruz said he would win weeks ago. Polls. When you start to smile the only poll that counts. Never smile on hardball rick. Advice to a newcomer. When you smile i know youre bsing. A recent poll has cruz in a margin of error. Its not impossible for cruz to win, but listen, it doesnt
matter. Your voters are going to vote for kasich. You cant go to a voter that likes moderate or traditional republican relatively conservative like john kasich and say by the way, vote for the most right wing guy running. How do you get a voter to do that . We have a relatively low vote total, around 20 . If we dont campaign or advertise, it opens the field for cruz. Youre talking right now, charlie. What do you tell the voter, who is your republican and moderate reasonable republican. You tell him to vote for cruz right now, go ahead and do it. Were not asking go do it. The 20 for kasich that are dedicated to kasich to vote for cruz. Were leaving the field open for the undecided and people that might have reservations about trump to go to cruz. So you want them still to vote for your guy in indiana. I think if they are for him, they should vote for him but the point is you know what happens in the last week of a primary. This is where im getting confused. Do you want the kasich voter to
vote for kasich or not . I do but its the question the governor does, as well. The arrangement is who will do advertising and campaigning in the different states at the different times. Do you want the cruise voters to vote for cruz in oregon . Sure. If somebody is already for cruz you wont change falling apart. You know what i found interesting thats a hell of a deal. Indiana money is good because he stayed back and did a fundraiser but doesnt want their vote or maybe he does. I dont think anyone really knows but i think this deal is falling apart already and at the end of the day, youre going to see donald trump has a movement going on. There are just today 8 million more people have voted at this point already in 16 40 states already done, too. Well, at this point in the math 40 out of 50 are done. 60 higher turnout. This is a movement out there. What do you think you got 38 of all those votes. Thats really a crowning whats the kasich game . The kasich game is to get to the convention where donald
trump does not get 1237 on the first ballot and Everybody Knows hell lose votes on the second ballot and third ballot because a lot of people are not for him after they are no longer bound and at that point, you have an open convention and they will pick up a lot of party regulars. And you expect trump to take the loss . Take the loss and walk out of cleveland a loser, a loser . I do expect him to lose. Do you expect him to accept that. Rick will tell you they will get 1237. Your candidate walk away as a wounded dog if he lost the convention. Multiple past 1237 well get there. If he doesnt get the 1237. Were not going to see that. Trump had strong had some strong attacks on both kasich and cruz today. Lets watch him. I think he loves this stuff, attack from a defensive position. Here he is. I was called and they said sir, kasich we call him one for 41. Hes won one race in 41 states, one. Okay . States and islands. So i call him now, i have a new nickname for him, 1 for 41. Hes a stubborn guy. Hes like if you have a child, just says i want it, mommy. I dont care, mommy. Hes eating today, stuffing his i never saw bites this big. Hes pushing it in with his i never saw a guy eat like this. I watch cruz this morning and hes all mixedup because hes losing so badly and when hes under pressure, hes like a basket case. He was a failed senator. Couldnt get anything passed, nothing. All he is is a guy that will go down and stand and fill buster for a day or two and the other senators look, when is he getting off the floor, jim . Guy is a pain in the [ bleep ]. Does he rehearse this stuff, rick . Where does it come from the about he had a nickname, little marco, lying ted and now 411. Uhhuh. They seem to stick. Look, he has the he has the finger and the clouds. So the american people, republican primaries like trash talk, name and give me a break. All the guys that i thought was like you, all the candidates you like, reasonable republican, jeb and walker and all, all got blown away by the republican voter. What happened . There is pop lose movement but hes gotten 38 of the vote. Not a majority. Not going to get a majority of the delegate. One vote that counts. Its who on however many ballots it takes gets 1237 delegates. This lid on cruz, how many delegates he can get. Everybody knows on the second
and third ballots, trump loses a lot of votes because they are not for him bound by state law. And by the third ballot how do you keep the 200 or so delegates available unbound to go to trump . Because they dont like trump. They want a winner. Thats why john kasich is the only one to win the election and delegates care about electability. Casey, youre out there covering this. Give us a sense what is happening out there. The question right now is what are these outside groups going to do as this starts to unfold and do they have enough money . This is in many ways this kind of desperation ploy born of the fact that there are all of these multiple paths for trump that rick was talking about to get to 1237. The needle is much smaller, you know, they really have to thread the needle if they stop him and actually get to the open convention and i have to tell you, chris, i talked to john kasich today at his event in rockville not that far from here and, you know, those of us that
covered him for a long time know him to be a happy warrior, this guy that has a smile and joke and he was not that way at all today with me. It was the opposite. It was clear that it almost seemed as though he was being dragged into something here. You know, i asked him about donald trump and what you just played where he is making fun of eating habits and, you know, there was no crack to the facade. He said no comment. I just i dont want to talk about it. The only time i got him to crack a bit is when we talked about california, which i think is starting to emerge as really the alamo for this, and the real test of whether or not this alliance can possibly hold and i think there is a lot of skepticism because there isnt deep well of trust here, right . If anything, neither one of these camps, you know, the opposite set of feelings. Not like its built on a Strong Foundation here. Thanks for that. Let me check with your guy,
happy that cruz temporary ad hawk thing. A lot of campaigns do this. A lot of resources and rather than spread and fight over the states, you go ahead and make a deal. Were you part of it . No, i wasnt but im happy to hear about it. These kind of coalitions, i remember and arkansas regan gained up and denied conley, baker and regan ganged up on bush and denied him all by four. Not on television. Well. This is happening on television. Here is the difference, in the era of super pacs, if you make an arrangement like this you have to put out a press
release because the super pacs dont know what to do. You cant talk to them. Its a crazy system. Kasich was with him two days last week in a good mood before anybody questioned his table manners. I dont blame him for being upset. Why . Its personal. Kidding. Why is this guy going after table manners, sweating abilities. These campaigns are playing to lose. Were playing to win. Youre enjoying this, arent you . How can i not . Its high school, some of this, going after eating habits . I know were playing to win and well get to 1237. We demand donald eat in public for the next week and well see what people think. Its hard to get your picture taken while eating. You seem to enjoy this. Youre not as much as you usually are. Were waiting for donald trump to take the stage and pennsylvania. Well be real. He called the alliance between ted cruz and kasich collusion. Im calling it thelma and luis and later this hour, well talk to someone who could be Hillary Clintons short list on the list, should she win the nomination. Castro is on the list and really there and coming up at the top of the hour, the twohour town hall doubleheader. Chris hays sits down with Bernie Sanders and at 9 00 eastern Rachel Maddow interviews Hillary Clinton. Were talking about republicans mainly. This is hardball a place for politics. Why do some cash back cards keep throwing obstacles at you . First they limit where you earn bonus cash back. Then those places change every few months . I think ill pass. Quicksilver from capital one puts nothing in your way. You simply earn unlimited 1. 5 cash back on every purchase, everywhere. You cant dodge the estion. Whats in your wallet . Eating as your insurance companys. Now claim calls are eating into work. And you dont know if youll get an insurance check or a severance check. The Liberty Mutual mobile app makes filing and tracking claims fast and easy. Liberty mutual insurance. Oment turns romantic why pause to take a pill . Or stop to find a bathroom . Cialis for daily use is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. Tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. Do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas for pulmonary hypertension, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. Do not drink alcohol in excess. Side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. To avoid longterm injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. If you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. Ask your doctor about cialis and a 200 savings card. I need to keep organized,ause anything that makes my life easier, im using. Hey cortana, remind me we have a play date tomorrow at noon i need that in my world. Shoshow me more like this. E. Show me previously watched. Whats recommended for me. X1 makes it easy to find what you love. Call or go online and switch to x1. Only with xfinity. But donald trump when it comes to religious, he said learn, ted you got to learn to cut deals with the democrats and to go along to get along. Well, let me be very, very clear to the men and women of indiana. I will not compromise a way your religious liberty. Thats ted cruz moments ago at a Campaign Rally in indiana next weeks fight. The alliance between cruz and kasich is proof that politics can make strange bed fellas. The cokoch brothers are signali they are not happy with the 2016 republican options. In an interview with abc yesterday, charles koch called the leading republicans bad role models and said hes open to
supporting Hillary Clinton. Here it is. Youre role models and youre terrible role models. So how i dont know how we can support him. Is it possible another clinton could be better than another republican . Its possible. Its possible. You couldnt see yourself supporting Hillary Clinton, could you . Well, her we would have to believe her actions would be quite different than a rhetoric. Let me put it that way. Well, the Clinton Campaign was quick to decline koch support saying not interested in endorsements that deny Climate Science to make it harder for people to vote. Well, they turned down votes as the wall street journal reports ceos have concerns about the tone of the campaign. Executives worry for now the rhetoric of the election discussion could weigh on Consumer Confidence and derail a sweeping 12 nation trade back. The chance pacific partnership
and that many businesses support. So they are worried about the money taken together its the latest indication that members of the establishment wing of the Republican Party are not readily to fall in line not yet. Im joined by ron kessler who is a trump supporter. Susan paige the washington burro chief and msnbc eugene robinson. So what do you make of this gene, because it looks like were at the short hairs, if you will, down to the reality of the election and looks like this is a final moment last chance saloon on the republican side with the odd teaming up of cruz and kasich and Business Leaders saying we might go with hillary. Look, i see this not as an 11thhour move or 10thhour move. I think the window has closed frankly. You know after tomorrow night very closed. Exactly. Exactly, two days from now well probably be talking about how donald trump swept five states and is that much closer to the
1237. And, you know, lets not pretend that doesnt potentially have an impact on what happens in indiana and down the line. Its serial, isnt it . Its serial. It does build. Momentum does still count, i think. Of course, who knows. Its a lot. It does. Five states tomorrow, they are not they are regular im an easterner, i say regular states. Pennsylvania is very regular. Rhode island is a little different up there and connecticut is wealthier. Delaware is pretty good bellwether of the country. These are pretty good states to judge the mood of the country and all going to go for trump. They come on the heels of a big victory in new york and got a lead in delegates. Whatever the republican establishment, whatever ceos think, people are going and voting for donald trump and giving him delegates and thats what made him a front runner. You see these republicans, i think, coming to think its not only possible but that trump
could be the nominee, likely trump will be the nominee and what does that mean for me . Maybe i support hillary. Maybe it means they focus might be more hawkish for them. Ron, you can define the capital of the United States, 435 representatives. Define the establishment, which includes the wall street journal readers, editors of the wall street journal. That world of the koch brothers. What is that world and why are they all against trump . You have different factions. What is the establishment faction . The establishment is a dinosaur as they have conventional wisdom. They dont understand that donald is a totally different phenomenon. I look at donald as a reporter. I first got to know him two decades ago when i did a book on palm beach called my midlife crisis and drink more champagne and go to more parties. We went down on this plane with my wife pam and he was imitating the nasal constructed tones
condemning his club beca