Logic to it. A chance to apologize to margaret. Head to bloomberg politics. Com right now. Until monday, sayonara. Hardball with Chris Matthews is next. Why does trump stay mum . Lets play hardball. Good evening. Im Chris Matthews back in washington. Five years ago, donald trump marched into National Politics trumpeting the charge that the president of the United States might well be a usurper, that barack obama wasnt who he said he was, a naturalborn american. Trump has never given up his insistence on this critical point, demanding the president produce his birth certificate, raising in all manner of ways his public doubts that the man in the white house is truly one of us. Well, now we are being told by his surrogates that trump has
surrendered this argument, that he now believes the president was born in the United States. Here is former new york mayor Rudy Giuliani last night on hardball. I confirm that and donald trump now confirms that. When did he do that . When did he do that . When did he do that . Tto years ago. Three years ago. He has now accepted that birtherism was nonsense . When did he do that . Chris, Hillary Clinton he did not do that yet. Im waiting for him to do it. I want to know whether you believe your candidate for president believes he would succeed a legitimate president or not. Does he believe he would succeed a legitimate president . Donald trump believes now that he was born in the United States. But that issue when is he going to say it . That issue was raised originally when is he going to say this president is legitimate . This is a fundamental question, mr. Mayor. Is the president of the United States legitimate or not . Do you believe it . If you believe it, why doesnt
your candidate state it . He believes it, i believe it, we all believe it. This morning Kellyanne Conway says her candidate now believes president obama was born here. The birther comment that we were just talking about, Rudy Giuliani goes on and says donald trump now will say that he believes that president obama was born in hawaii. He doesnt say it himself. Why not . You have to ask him. Why wont he come out and own that position, that yes, president obama was born here, i was wrong to go with the birthers . So he believes president obama was born here. I was born in camden, by the way, new jersey. He was born in hawaii. But the point is, what kind of president has he been. Well, she couldnt answer that one. I understand why, because trump hasnt. Starting in 2011, trump led the birther charge. Lets watch trumps long history of questioning Barack Obamas legitimacy to be an american president. Why doesnt he show his birth certificate and you know what i wish he would, because i think its a terrible pale thats hanging over him. Nobody ever comes forward. Nobody knows who he is until later in his life. Its very strange. He may have one but theres something on that birth certificate, maybe religion, maybe it says hes a muslim. I dont know. I have people that actually have been studying it and they cannot believe what theyre finding. You have people now down there searching in hawaii . Absolutely. And they cannot believe what theyre finding. I still would like to see his college records. I would like to see a couple things. Trump comes along and said birth certificate. He gave a birth certificate. Whether or not that was a real certificate because a lot of people question it, i certainly question it. A few years ago, you led the Birther Movement. It turned out not to be true. According to you its not true. I dont know. He released his birth certificate. If you believe that, thats fine. I dont care. Its an old subject. Whether or not he did that, who knows. A lot of people dont agree with you on that, by the way. Despite giulianis claim that donald trump has turned his back on birtherism two or three years ago, the republican nominee has never publicly repudiated his past comments. I asked trump about it back in december and he refused to answer. Here goes. Is donald trump honest when he says that barack obama isnt a legitimate president . So its a good question. I didnt say you couldnt. You cant stop me. I should no, i cant. I should not tell you this but i do watch you a lot. I knew you were going to ask that question. I dont talk about that anymore. I dont answer because you know what, if i do answer thats all people want to talk about. We catholics believe in confession. You say youre wrong and move on. You really believe this guys not a legitimate president . This week trump told nbc news when asked about the president s birthplace, again, i dont talk about it. He refused again on tuesday to change his tune when asked about bill oreilly. Lets watch. So you think your birther
position has hurt you among africanamericans . I dont know. I have no idea. I dont even talk about it anymore. I know but its there. Its on the record. I dont know. I guess with maybe some. I dont know why. I really dont know. But i dont think, you are the first one thats brought that up in awhile. I dont think so. So what evidence is there trump truly has given up on the birther Conspiracy Theory . Im joined by nbcs katy tur outside trump tower in manhattan, msnbcs joy reid and congressman, can you speak as Rudy Giuliani did last night, saying trump no longer believes in this nonsense that this president snuck in the country, that hes an illegitimate leader . I hate to repeat a lot of what you already had, but the reality is this was started by Hillary Clinton. First of all, we are not
going any further give me the evidence. In 2008 where did she say this . I actually have seen the memo which is an interparty memo. Where is it . I will absolutely get it to you. What is the memo . It said we need to question his who is this from . Its something from the Clinton Campaign. From the Clinton Campaign itself. And you have seen this. I have seen a copy of it. But let me no, no. You cant say Hillary Clinton is the mother of the Birther Movement without some evidence. You knew you were coming on this show. Why didnt you bring it with you . I may even have it in my briefcase. I dont know. Come on, this is a live show. We have an hour. Find it. Im dead serious. If you can find it in your briefcase, something from the Clinton Campaign, not some blogger out there, but somebody who actually worked for Hillary Clinton under her direction who said the president wasnt born in this country, that would be news. If you can produce it. If i can see that, maybe the heading like the c has been removed from it as hillary has
said. What . What is this . What are we talking about . Lets talk about fact and evidence. It was an allusion to classified material. Give me vidence. Let me get back to your candidate. Is your candidate, donald trump, you are a Senior Adviser to him, does he believe the president of the United States is a legitimately elected leader of our country, yes or no . Im going to quote Rudy Giuliani last night with an answer of yes. And that he is legitimate. How do you know he believes that . How do you know trump believes that . Because hes not hes not focusing on this. Hes focusing on jobs, focusing on education and safety. Hes moved on. You know, it might be a hot topic in Marthas Vineyard where Hillary Clinton has been but on the streets of baton rouge that was a nice try. That was a nice try. I know why youre here. You got to defend rudy. You have taken the oath. Joy, i was in philly yesterday with a nice audience of people trying to build the citys image up. Its something i really believe in. It was a mixed audience
racially, ethnically, if you will. There are a lot of people that care about this issue. When you say the president of the United States is a fraud, the first africa ncnamerican president is a fraud, he somehow snuck in this country from kenya or somewhere else and assumed an identity and somehow got himself elected under false pretenses, thats a hell of a slam job because i think i know why people do it so when they look at the faces of the president s 20, 30 years from now, they wont really see obama there. He will have an asterisk next to his name because he snuck in. Thats what rudy has been pushing. Your thoughts . Absolutely. I think your guest there as well as Rudy Giuliani, first of all, giuliani put out two completely false statements, one of which you disproved with the montage claiming donald trump renounced birtherism three years ago. You showed him talking in december. And what Jack Kingston just said inventing a memo in which the Clinton Campaign created the Birther Movement. The politifact article where
they created this new con sfespy theory, you can look this up, its easy, they debunk that particular theory as simply not true. When you talk about the belief in the Birther Movement and what its done for donald trump, its quite clear there is a substantial percentage of both republicans and specifically Trump Supporters who believe that barack obama is a fraud, that he was born in kenya, that he has this as Newt Gingrich called it this anticolonial mindset, hes an antiamerican mindset that comes from some sort of leaning that he took over from his father. A movie was made about it. It is an article of faith among enough republicanbased voters and enough Trump Supporters that i think donald trump doesnt want to walk away from it. Its the reason hes popular with them. It rocketed him to the top of the pile amongst 17 republican candidates for president and it has created and built his cult of personality because not only does he say it, not only does he allude to it but he tried to
humiliate the president much the United States, the first black president , which is something that deep down, a lot of far right republicans wanted viscerally. Not just to see the president made illegitimate but to see him humiliated. We had george romney, who was born in mexico. No one ever asked him to prove he was an american. We had john mccain, war hero, also mr. Trump has never, donald trump has never apologized for putting down his service, born in the canal zone. Nobody has ever asked him to prove his americanism. This is an attempt to humiliate the first black president of the United States. Joy, let me say this. I have been involved in this campaign and i have never heard this as an issue. Jobs, the economy, safety, national security, thats why donald trump has the following that he does. I have to just say respectfully, to broad brush millions of americans as being racist because something you have did i say that . Interpreted as racist. I think you have. I think you have implied that. The reality is people are not supporting donald trump for the reasons that you mentioned. They like what he is saying about the economy, of creating jobs. They know their Household Income how did donald trump become a popular figure in the Republican Party . Because hes talking about jobs. Because people believe in the birther theory. You cant discount this. There is plenty of data in social science to back this up. There were a lot of letters going around. I never signed that. Most of us never participated in that kind of discussion. Thats you. Thats you. What attracts me to donald trump, i think millions and millions of americans, is his position on jobs and the economy. We will talk about jobs some other night. Let me ask you about this. Because you are a loyal member of the house as a republican and you had a leader there, speaker john boehner, asked a very direct question. When are you going to disabuse the American People of this nonsense about the president being illegitimate. He said im not here to tell my caucus members how to think. Was that an abdication of leadership . Are you abdicating leadership . You think its right personally
right for trump to accuse this president of being illegitimate . Is that morally right to do that to a president when you know its not true . He is not doing that. He is accusing it was a discussion but hes moved on. Its really not about i want to go to katy tur. You are the great reporter covering this guy. Why is he hiding . Why is he staying mum . Because in this case, silence is not consent to this president s legitimacy. He has raised the issue. He is mr. Birther. Now hes gotten to be mr. Quiet. Reporter let me address what mr. Kingston was saying it was not an issue of this campaign. Donald trump may not be making it an issue on the campaign trail on the stump, but i have to tell you, his supporters believe its an issue. When you ask them about president obama, not just a handful, not just a few, many of them say that they believe he was born in kenya. Hold on. Im telling you im there every day on the campaign trail. I talk to supporters every day. That doesnt show up on every poll. Please dont interrupt me, sir. Please dont interrupt me. Let me tell you what donald Trump Supporters tell me on the campaign trail. Let her report here. Let her report here. Reporter let me tell you what donald Trump Supporters tell me on the campaign trail often. They often say they believe he was born in kenya, they often say they believe hes a muslim. Some of them go on to say hes an undercover operative, a manchuran candidate. That being said, donald trump has not backed away from this. Let me finish this, mr. Kingston. Donald trump has not backed away from this because hes never backed away from any statement on this campaign trail so far. The only thing we have heard him back away from was to say he regrets some of the things he said during this campaign season, but he never specifically said what he regretted. We asked him repeatedly as chris just showed, i asked him last year, where he stands on the Birther Movement right now. He was asked as late as last week on his own press plane by the press pool. He said he doesnt want to get
into it because he believes its going to become an eeissue. The reality is its become an issue regardless of it. I spoke to a senior aide who said he was asked about it again, he would come out and say he does not believe obama was born overseas, that he believes he was born in hawaii. The issue is whenever anybody asked him this he refused to back down from it. I understand you may say, mr. Kingston, the polling doesnt agree with me but i will tell you as somebody who has been doing this now for 14 straight months, i think we are going on 15 months now, that is the same conversation i have had with supporter after supporter in city after city in this country. Doesnt matter if we are in the south, in the west, inthe east, the north. Every city i have been to, there have been people who have said exactly those words. You want me to believe people come up to you unsolicited, unprodded, and say the reason why reporter yes. Katy, come on. Reporter you dont have to believe me. Im telling you the facts of what happen in the field. Omar mateens dad, did he come rushing up to you also and say im for hillary because im protaliban . Reporter i wasnt in orlando when he was there. Im sorry, sir, he did not. I want an answer from you. You are a surrogate for trump. Be a surrogate. Do you believe the president is legitimate . Yes. Do you think somebody running for president should admit that . Anybody . Forget the name trump. Anybody. Should they begin the campaign by accepting the legitimacy of our political process and that we do have a legitimate president . Unless they have hard evidence to the contrary. Trump has never said he has hard evidence. He never claims he needs any. He just says well, i have suspicions. Did you watch those tapes we just showed here . Where he said he had people working on this down in hawaii . He didnt have anybody working on this. It is such a big issue. Why wasnt it asked the other night . It will be asked no doubt if its the issue katy and others believe that it is. It will be asked. Theres no way in hell we are
going through three hour and a half debates without this coming up again and again until your guy and you convince your guy to put it behind him. Let me say this. The people who are supporting donald trump have seen their Household Income drop from 57,000 to 53,000. They have seen jobs go away. Let me go back to why i think this matters. Joy, i want you to pick up here. You were very strong before and i believe every word you say because we are friends and i know what you think. I know what you have been through in life and everybody else knows this story. When you go into the inner city and the Africanamerican Community and you talk to people, you dont have to go polling this baby. You talk to people of either party, the minority republicans of the black community, and you talk to them about this president , theres pride in their eyes. The idea of saying hes some kind of thief in the night, he snuck in, his resumes are phony, he really didnt go to these schools, really didnt get these grade, really didnt get blind selection as editor of the harvard law review, none of that ever happened. Thats what trump does. He does it over and over again. None of this mans accomplishments are true. Thats the point. Absolutely. Chris, i can tell you, you can count on one hand the number of prominent africanamerican republicans who are coming forward and supporting donald trump. When i talk to black republicans w