Youll be glad you did. The second is we are partnering with twitter for special coverage of the president ial debate this monday, starting at 6 00 p. M. Eastern on twitter. Until tomorrow, siayonarasayona. A city on edge and a nation divided. Lets play hardball. And good evening. Im Steve Kornacki in for chris matthews, who is in ireland to receive the tip oneil irish diaspra award. Meanwhile, charlotte, North Carolina, is bracing for violence tonight. The National Guard has arrived to try to prevent what would be a third consecutive night of unrest in the wake of policeinvolved shooting of 34yearold keith lamont scott. Demonstrations spiraled out of control around 8 00 p. M. Last night. Riot Police Deployed tear gas as
protesters vandalized a store. 44 people in total were arrested. Several were injured, and one man died late today after he was shot last night outside the omnihotel in charlotte. The citys police chief said this morning that they are trying to determine who carried out that shooting. Meanwhile, the governor of North Carolina declaring a state of emergency. He deployed the National Guard and this afternoon, attorney general Loretta Lynch also pleaded for restraint. She announced that she was sending the Justice Department to the city. The department of justice is sending four members of our Community Relations service to charlotte. But i urge those responsible for bringing violence to these demonstrations to stop. Because youre drowning out the voices of commitment and change and youre ushering in more tragedy and grief in our communities. And with charlotte on edge, city leaders are investigating the circumstances surrounding tuesdays shooting of keith lamont scott. Police say that scott did not heed their calls to drop a gun
and while scotts family insists that he wasnt carrying a firearm, a witnesss photograph obtained by wcnc television appears to show a gun at scotts feet moments after the incident. Police verified the gun in the photo is the gun they found at the scene. Police are also reviewing videos that captured the incident, which have not been made public. Police chief kerr putny described those videos today. The video does not give me absolute definitive visual evidence that would confirm that a person is pointing a gun. When taken in the totality of all of the other evidence, it supports what weve heard and the version of the truth that we gave about the circumstances that happened, that led to the death of mr. Scott. And nbc news now confirms that the scott family has seen the video of the shooting, this just in the last few hours, but
they would not say whether it supports the Police Account of what happened. Meanwhile the officer involved in the tulsa, oklahoma shooting of Terence Crutcher was charged late today with firstdegree manslaughter. Im joined now by dr. William barber with the naacp. Thanks for taking a few minutes. So the central dispute right now, the central factual dispute between the police in North Carolina the police in charlotte and the family of the man here who was shot involves whether he had that gun. The family said, no, he had a book. The police chief is adamant he had a gun. Based on what youve seen, that includes that picture that we just showed, based on what the police chief has said down there, is what the police saying, is it at least plausible to you that that version could be correct . Well, i met with more than 50 clergy today, diverse clergy, who have been involved in the protests, and 99. 9 of the protesters have been nonviolent protesters for justice. Those who have been violent have been a part of provocateurs, but the unrest is because theres been no transparency. What we need is not a military state, but a transparent state. The video could tell this. We understand from the police chief that there were video cameras on body cameras that were off. We know that three possible scenarios there was a gun, there was not a gun, the gun was planted, and there was something between the officers that caused that. Number two, there was a gun, but he had the right to carry a gun. You have to understand that North Carolina is an open carry state. You can carry open. If he had one, didnt mean he didnt have a right to carry. And the third is that our man was shot, who brandished it at the police in a violent way. We dont know which one of those scenarios are true, and the only way we can know that is through full transparency. Thats why the ncaap are calling for the take place to be released. Theyre public tapes. We disagree with our governor
who has fostered and passed a bill that goes into effect october 1, that disallows the ability to release taupes. And were calling for an independent investigation, both state and federal. Thats what needs to happen in order to have a sense of trust and transparency in the city of charlotte. The police chief has said his main objection to putting the tape out there is he said, for from the standpoint of the family here, from the standpoint of the family, he said, he doesnt want them to have to relive their worst moment as a family over and over in public, he says thats what the video would do. What we know tonight is that the family got an opportunity with their lawyers to view this video. The lawyers would not commit at their press conference this afternoon whether theyd make a statement after that. They havent so far. If the family were to come out now and say, you know, upon reflection, upon consideration, we would prefer this not to be released, would you go along with that . Well, i dont think thats the issue, would we go along with . Weve already heard reports,
with the lawyers contradicting what the police chief and the narrative has been giving out. The first day, there was a gunman. Now its inconclusive. The reality is, across america, we know that where there is tends to be video, there tends to be a different reaction. In tulsa, for instance, we had a video, its out, theres been an indictment, theres been a very different response. The reality is, we need to be able to see these videos, we need to know what is happening in this particular situation. Remember, this is a city where a few years ago, jonathan pharrell was killed, a Young College student who got in an accident, was asking for help. He was shot unarmed. Later on, the officer was indicted, was prosecuted, but there was a hung jury. And theres been no attempt to retry, in fact, claim that the jury had spoken. Theres a lot of distrust. And in this area, where we have all of these cell phones and videos and different pictures,
we need the evidence to be out there, so that there can be some sense of transparency and we must have independent state and federal investigations. And the story obviously reverberating far outside North Carolina politically at the height of this campaign season. The president ial candidates are reacting to the policeinvolved shootings in charlotte and tulsa, as well. Donald trump who yesterday said that the officer responsible for the shooting death of Terence Crutcher might have choked and received pushback after making that statement, the pushback coming from the police union that endorsed him last week. The fraternal order of police reminding trump last week that he must be mindful of the Due Process Rights of innocence including Police Officers. Trump who has touted law and order reacted to the scenes out of charlotte with the call for a National Anticrime agenda. How can we lead when we cant even control our own cities. Our job is not to make life more comfortable for the violent disrupter, but to make life more comfortable if the africanamerican parent. More Law Enforcement, more community engagement, more the effective policing is what our country needs and we need it quickly. Reverend, donald trump has said he is trying to reach out to black voters. This is part of that effort. Whats your reaction to what youre hearing from him this week . Theres so much hypocrisy and insult in what donald trump said. He is a man who has enflamed racial tension, applauded members of his rallies, who have actually hit africanamericans. He has joined in this narrative that somehow, to be against Racial Injustice and against racism engaged by police is to, in fact, be antipolice, when, in fact, the black community and the White Community that is also marching with black lives matter and the naacp and the latino is not antipolice, were antibad police. In fact, good police are antibad police, because it
makes it bad for all good police. Remember, his campaign started talking about overturning the 14th amendment. When he reaches out to the black community, he doesnt say the things in front of the black community he says in front of the White Community. For instance, in front of the White Community, he questioned the birth of the president. He didnt do that in front of the black audience. In front of the White Community, he talks about rolling back obamacare, but in front of the black community, he doesnt they will them that that means that 3 million black people will lose their health insurance. In front of the White Community, he talks about Public Education and vouchers. In front of the black community, he doesnt say that that will lead to more poverty schools and resegregated schools. He is exactly the wrong one, based on what hes done already. And even today he floated frisking, when in fact frisking has been found not frisking, excuse me, profiling, and stop and frisk, has been found unconstitutional, and not effective. And so, actually, his proposals alone we need trust, we need transparency, we need better training, we need more than just
discussion about racism, we need racial transformation. And we need to understand something. This is very simple. Thats why you see Black And White people together with these protests. A badge and a gun, the ability to serve a warrant and take a persons Family Member out of their house. The ability to use lethal force is too much power for a bigot, for someone that is trigger happy, and for someone that does not understand that their first role is to protect and serve, not to shoot and kill. All right, reverend William Barber from North Carolina, thank you for joining us. Appreciate it. Thank you so much. And as the reverend just said, donald trump has advocated the controversial policy of stop and frisk in response to the news this week. That policy was put to use by the new York Police Department to search citizens without cause up until the end of the year 2013. Trump again defended the practice this morning, clarifying that he only wants it implemented in the city of chicago. But stop and frisk worked. We had tremendous shootings, numbers of shootings. Now, chicago is out of control. And i was really referring to chicago with stop and frisk. If they see a person, possibly, with a gun or they think may have a gun, they will see the person, theyll look, and theyll take the gun away. Theyll stop, theyll frisk, and theyll take the gun away. And they wont have anything to shoot with. How its not being used in chicago is, to be honest with you, its quite unbelievable. But many have pointed out that stop and frisk didntner work as trump described it, according to a report by the new York State Attorney general, only 3 of the nearly 2. A million stops between 2009 and 2012 resulted in actual convictions. The Brennan Center also reported the that the end of the policy did not result in a surge in crime. Furthermore, the practice was not limited to guns, as the New York Times pointed out. Officers often searched the subjects pockets for contraband like drugs, without any legal
ground for doing so. And as weve reported, the policy disproportionately affected africanamericans and other minorities. Over half of those stopped in 2013 were black. Nearly a third were hispanic. The judge who overturned the practice called a eed it a polio indirect racial profiling. Joined now by a. J. Delgado, former adviser to the Trump Campaign, and nina turner, an msnbc political analyst. A. J. , lets start with you. Donald trump introduced the idea of stop and frisk this week. He says now he was only talking about chicago. Heres what im curious about, the politics of this. I went back and looked, in new york, when this was a major issue a few years ago, 67 of black new yorkers said that they were opposed to this policy. So heres donald trump, who says hes out there reaching out to black voters. This is the policy he proposes. This is not going to help him with black voters, is it . Well, i resent the implication that a law and order candidate or pushing law and order policies is somehow
antithetical toll american community. On the contrary, they go hand in hand. But a. J. , i just what im asking about. Im not making that implication, im just giving you the poll numbers. The policy was in place in new york, twothirds of black voters were opposed to it. He says, i want the policy for chicago now. Im saying, wont that hurt him with black voters, since we have policyi inevidence it was very unpopular with black voters . I think it was unpopular, because they were fed misinformation from the media as far as how stop and frisk actually worked in the community. When you look at a place in chicago or ohio where mr. Trump was speaking. By the way, at an africanamerican outreach event, which we greatly applaud him for. When we look at a place like chick, where they basically stopped using stop and frisk. The numbers are the Police Department has decreased its usage by about 80 . I think the Africanamerican Community in chicago, if you would ask them, are you perhaps in fauvor of looking at this policy, with using it quite heavily once again . I think we might be surprised to see what they say. Its time to put an end to the
violence, there, steve. And when you see children being shot on the streets, africanamerican children, who should be safe, i would be curious to see how africanamericans would feel about an actual policy proposal, not one like Hillary Clintons, but one like donald trump that might help the community. Stop and frisk here in new york basically over a generation, you did see a big drop in new york and nationally in Violent Crime in the 90s, the early 2000s, stop and frisk was in place. Of course, critics of the program say, hey, its been out of existence in the city in a major way in the last few years. The crime rates havent spiked. But you look at whats going on in chicago. Could there be some positive from implementing a program like that in terms of the crime rate . Not stop and frisk. And even mayor de blasio who has talked about how crime has gone down in new york over the last three years, it was very clear that was unconstitutional and it was a racist policy. We know that disproportionately africanamericans and latino folks were stopped and frisked,
as if they are somehow more criminal than somebody else. And what i will say is that if a Community Speaks up, the Africanamerican Community was polled, and it wasnt the skewing of the mainstream media, in that they do not like that policy. Now, chicago does need some help. Theres no doubt about it. Theres no way for us to spin out of that. That the violence in that city and some of the violence that we see in cities all across this country need to be addressed, not when were in crisis, but copping to the table together. But stop and frisk is not the type of policy that should be used to really bring about the peace and trust and accountability that we need in our communities across this country. Well, meanwhile today, Donald Trumps running mate, mike pence, said that this country should put an end to the debate about institutional bias or racism. Those are his words there, within Law Enforcement, after tragedies like this. Heres pence. Donald trump and i believe that theres been far too much of this talk of institutional
bias or racism within Law Enforcement. That Police Officers are human beings. And in difficult and life threatening situations, mistakes are made. A. J. , let me ask you about that. When you look at we just put the stats up there, the stop and frisk program, how that disproportionately affected africanamericans. We look at these officerinvolved shootings, how they disproportionately, when you look at the statistics within affect africanamericans. Isnt race some component of this . Yeah, always there is. But listen, at the end of the day, when you have a policy like stop and frisk, whether it was disproportionately affecting certain communities or certain people look at it that way, lets take a look at the actual stats. You had hundreds. In one year alone, in 2014 in new york, i think it was 400 guns were taken off the streets because of stop and frisk. So whether we can get into a debate about whether it
disproportionately impacts racial communities or not, it does remove crime. And pence has a point, but donald trump also said that tulsa, the officer there, did behave inappropriately. He criticized her. And i dont think those are mutually exclusive. I think pence is absolutely correct that we need to stop this talk of institutional racism in our Police Departments. None of these brave officers