This week, the great thes pooen rory omalley plays king george in hamilton gives a review on how Hillary Clinton and donald trump performed in the first president ial debate. Rory omalley is great. A little proclinton, maybe. But he is really good. Ill be back tomorrow, same bad time, same bad channel. See you tomorrow. Sayonara. Hardball with Chris Matthews is next. He cant get over pinpoint lets play hardball. Good evening. Im Chris Matthews back in washington. Well, theres a wellknown rule in politics, when youre in a hole, stop digging. One guy doesnt seem to know this wellknown rule. His name is donald trump. He cant stop saying that he won a debate that voters by two to one give to his opponent. He cant stop talking about a former beauty pageant winner. Cant stop acting like baghdad bob, remember him, the iraqi who kept said he was winning the war against the u. S. Invaders. And saying that north korea won the olympics. Well, because he keeps going over it and over it, trump has trapped himself in a political Twilight Zone, where he blames everyone he can, anyone he can think of, as responsible for monday night, a night he claims desperately to have been the winner. Well, if he won, you have to ask, why did he look for so many people to blame . As i said, while trump has been spinning his performances of victory, an online poll shows that 52 of Hillary Clinton won the first debate, 26 say neither one, and down in third place, 21 say that trump was the victor. Now trump is dismissing the debate as a rigged deal. Heres what he said this afternoon. During the debate the other night, she was saying, oh, no, she never said that. She said it, i mean, she said it. And then i had to put up then i had to put up with the anchor
and fight the anchor all the time, on everything i said. What a rigged deal. So its lester holts fault, now. Boy, hes blaming everybody. This comes after trump confidants this week have been airing their grievances about the candidates lack of discipline. On trumps debate prep with former fox news chairman roger ailes, the New York Times reports that, quo, mr. Trump found it hard to focus during those meetings that left mr. Ailes discussing his own problems as well as recounting political war stories. Well, Rudy Giuliani didnt have anymore luck once he took over for ailes, quote, with mr. Trump receiving so much conflicting advice in those sessions, he absorbed little of it. Meanwhile, trumps feud with former Miss Universe, alicia machado, has now entered its third day, with trump doubling down on his assertions about Alicia Machados weight. Last night on fox, trump defended his behavior and suggested he is the victim, because he says he saved machados job. Take a listen. She did not do well. She had a lot of difficulties. And, you know, they wanted to fire her. I had nothing to do with this person, but they wanted to fire her. I saved her job, because i said, thats going to be ruinous. And ive done that with a number of the young ladies, where i saved their job. And you know what happened . Look what i get out of it . I get nothing. I saved her job because they wanted to fire her for putting on so much weight. And it is a beauty contest, you know, say what you want, bill, they know what theyre getting into. Its a beauty contest. And i said, dont do that. Let her try and lose the weight. Can you imagine i end up in a position like this . So thats the way it is. Well, now nbc news has obtained an internal Trump Campaign memo that advises surrogates out there on how to respond to questions about the beauty contest winner, alicia machado. Joining me right now is nbcs katy tur, kathleen parker, opinion writer for the washington post, as well. Katy, give me a sense, just, you
know everything about this fight. Im trying to keep up with it. Trump, ill start with my role. When youre in a hole, stop digging. Why does he keep talking about a beauty contestant, what, 20 years ago. Why does he keep wrapping himself in this Twilight Zone existence that he cant win. Theres no way he can win this argument. Theres no way that people are going to change their minds. He looks like the bad guy in this incident. Why doesnt he let it go . Its the same thing he did with judge curiel, when he was talking about how he wasnt fair and he was biassed and he shouldnt be presiding over the Trump University case. Its the same thing he did with the gold star families, and khizr khan. Now hes doing it with machado. He doesnt have the ability to let things go when he needs to let them go. He wants to defend himself. And oftentimes, when he does that, he digs himself into a deeper hole, as were seeing with machado. Im not sure how women will react, those suburban women that he is trying to get, when he says that he was actually protecting this woman, because she got too big. And for that matter, the president of the Miss Universe pageant told the washington
post at the time in 1997, the idea she was going to be decrowned or lose her job was bogus. That wasnt happening. This was already debunked 20 years ago. Donald trump is continuing his narrative, and so is his campaign. Kellyanne conway saying that this morning on the view. Im not sure why the campaign is Going Forward with it. Theyve even released this internal not released, weve obtained this internal memo that says wherever surrogates are asked about machado, they should instead pivot to Hillary Clinton, saying that she is trying to present herself as some sort of feminist champion, and that is a joke and encouraging those surrogates to say that Hillary Clinton attacked Monica Lewinsky and jennifer flowers and paula jones. They are enabling this story to live longer than it should. Conservative talk radio is already getting upset about this, including an iowa talk radio shows, steve deace, saying that donald trump doesnt have the ability to let go and that he keeps digging himself into a
hole. As you said, chris, when youre digging a hole, stop digging. Yeah, the question i have to ask is a very political one. It is not a moral one. In this sense, baghdad bob, we laugh about him, because he was the iraqi official who kept saying theyre winning a war theyre clearly losing. Kim i dont thijongun is sayin the olympics. You lose credibility when you say things are that they clearly arent. Hes going to be the bad guy, the heavy in this case, and thats the way its going to be. Reporter but let me counter let me give you a counter vision on that. What donald trump has been doing this sort of thing, since this campaign started. He often talks about crowd sizes being much larger than they actually are. He did it again today, saying there are thousands of people inside this venue, when the place only holds about 1,200, maybe 1,800 people, and there were only a little bit more than a thousand people here. He said there were 3,000 people waiting outside, when there was not anyone waiting outside. He has been presenting things that arent true as fact, now, for quite a while. It hasnt done anything to crack his credibility, with his base of supporters. That is why he won the primaries. What he has not realized, and thats because the polls are very tight, its potentially going to hurt him in the general election. Well have to see how it plays out. This has been such a topsyturvy campaign, but the polls are so close. And chris, if theres one thing that ive learned on this campaign l, its that donald trump pays attention to the polls, more than he pays attention to anything else. More than he pays attention to his advisers or his kids. If he stays close in the polls, hes not going to see a reason to change. If he drops down, then were going to see more debate prep. Then we might see him stray or get away from these negative topics. This thing is particularly bad, because there is so much past, you know, so many past comments from trump out there, that are
negative towards women. Theres countless howard stern interviews, where he talks about women, saying that, you know, its hard to be a 10 if youre flatchested. This enables his detractors to go out and dredge all of this stuff back up, present it, and say, donald trump is not a champion of women. He was in another business, its clear. Anyway, Trump Supporters have had to defend the candidates behavior this week. This a speech to the log cabin republicans last night, Newt Gingrich told catch this who were. Youre not supposed to gain 60 pounds during the year that youre Miss Universe. I dont think anybody gained 60 pounds. Asked about trumps behavior on fox last night, Kellyanne Conway tried to refocus the debate on Hillary Clintons negative ad campaign. Heres kellyanne. Yeah, im just wondering why shes spending tens of millions of dollars in negative ads and negative mail pieces and never putting together because shes killing him with women. And she sees an advantage there and shes trying to exploit it. And my question to you is whether he needs to come up with a better answer than telling
fox friends, well, she gained a bunch of weight when she won Miss Universe and she was a real problem. Well, now were conflating different things. What i would say to that is this. That he should speak to americas women based on the issues about which they care. Well well talk about that right now. Heres how conway, conway herself, kellyanne, defended trumps treatment of machado, the beauty contestant on the view today. In the past, hes called her an eating machine. I feel uncomfortable with it as a woman, but im curious allow you felt about those comments . Well, i dont discuss peoples weights and their looks. Im sure on your twitter feeds right now, you have viewers discussing my looks and my intelligence. Did you reprimand him for that and say, listen, why are you saying women are fat and why are you calling women fat pigs . Yes, i did. Whatd he say . That he gave that particular woman a second chance. She obviously has a troubled past that i wont get into. So what . Well, hold on that has nothing to do with her being fat or skinny. This is going into a terrain where its fairly clear, kathleen, that trump cant win. And poor kellyanne, who ive known forever, she now has to flack this. Thats how you break your pick, when you go into a political argument on behalf of a candidate with an unwinnable argument, it undercuts you in all arguments. People say, if youre willing to defend that, we cant really rely on what youre telling us. Yeah, i feel sorry for her. But look, the reason he is doing this and the reason he cant let go, this is a psychological question. Which one . Well, no, he is developmentally a child. Thats why. Hes like the child who falls down and stands up and says, i meant to do that. And he cant admit ever being wrong. Hell never apologize for saying something that was rude or crude. Because in his mind, hes never wrong. You know why cant he pull back its a problem. Hes immature. Can he pull back and say, its a beauty contest, i dont set the rules, its based on
appearance, theres this prejudice towards thin, its been going on for a while. Im there doing a job, or should he just say, you know, i wasnt at my best that time. I should have been much more compassionate and empathetic and stop being such a bad guy pip mean, how do you step back from these situations, which are embarrassing in 2016, when your number one target are women, young women, in the suburbs, and youre trying to win them over, and they do worry about these issues of weight and everything, and are very sensitive points. They just are in our society. And he didnt create that. My reporting tells me that inside of Trumps Campaign, at trump tower, theres not a sense of stepping become. What they really are, are frustrated. Theyre frustrated in their minds. Why are we talking about this crap . They think that trump left a weapon on the side, that he didnt go after the clintons, that he didnt pivot. I spoke to Rudy Giuliani a few minutes ago. And he says, theres so much trump could say about the clintons past. Why . Thats been and of course, people likeNewt Gingrich are saying to the Trump Campaign, hey, maybe this is because they know look, im not into morality on this program. Im talking about politics. Three marriages, newt. Three marriages, trump. Three marriages, whos the other guy . Giuliani. I dont hold that against them at all. But these are glass houses. Why do they want to talk about this stuff . Because theres nothing else to talk about. Thats true. Theres no policy to talk about, so lets talk about fat women, you know . lets talk about clinton. The notion that theres a treasuretrove we all saw what happened. The republicans impeached bill clinton, right . They spent a whole summer going after him. Okay, okay. They may have had an argument morally or whatever, they had a case. But look what happened. The republicans lost the congress. I mean, Hillary Clinton got elected to the senate, because she stood up to this. And she show eed guts and poise and everybody else looked like a crazy person. The evidence is, hillary knows how to handle this topic, right . Right. She knows how to spin it right back at the other side, and shell look good. Nobodys going to blame her for bill. She didnt actually do it. What do you think they think . What did they ive been speaking to them for the last few hours. And my sense is, because of the way that that machado question came at the end of the debate, they all walked out into the spin room frustrated that trump dit come back in a certain way. Ever sin that night at hofstra, theyve been talking to each other, when it comes to st. Louis on october 9th, hes going to come back katy, my general notion is that trump is making the same mistake tuesday, wednesday, thursday, that he made on monday night, which is playing defense on personal history stuff. If he spends time what he should be talking about are jobs, the trade deals weve made, immigration, which is right illegal immigration, very unpopular, and stupid wars weve been fighting. Go to your bases, dance with the ones that brung it, stop playing on the enemys territory. Your thoughts. Whats he up to . Thats what hes trying to do. And he tried to do that today
here in new hampshire. He tried to move on from that subject. And they came out with a whole, you know, a cache of new or a cache excuse me, a cache of new very catchy talking points, saying that Hillary Clinton is corrupt and follow the money and then talking about the five people that got immunity. That being said, theres an issue that we arent really talking about here when it comes to trump and women. And thats not just his words about women. Its how his supporters behave and comport themselves at these rallies. You have many supporters wearing shirts that i couldnt repeat to you on camera, talking about Hillary Clinton and Monica Lewinsky. You have shirts that say, trump, that b. You have children calling Hillary Clinton a bwo. A couple ofays ago in florida, i saw a shirt that said, i wish hillary married o. J. These are images that are out there, and its not just the candidate, its the campaign
supporters that are pushing this narrative, that he is not a champion of women. And when youre trying to target suburban women or women who dont think donald trump is stable, they dont think hes trustworthy to get into the white house, they dont think that his interests are their interests, they dont think that hes going to fight for them, or maybe theyre weary of how hes treated women in the past. Nothing he can do now is going to fix that if you still see supporters at rallies wearing shirts like this and using terminology and chants like the ones we hear. Im just echoing in my head what he said to me back in march when i had my last interview with trump. He talked about, there has to be some sort of punishment about abortion. Here he is talking about weight issues, eating disorders, things like that. Are all on peoples minds. It is a crying situation we have to face in our society, that people do mothers worry about it, their kids worry about it, mothers worry about their kids. Too much of it. Its like the barbie doll debate. Why do we have a barbie doll with a certain notion of what a womans supposed to look like. This is sensitive stuff, and when he starts talking about punishing a woman for gaining weight, hes right back into that problem area he got into when he talked about abortion, punishing people because of the situation they find themselves in because of eating situations, not even disorders, he just doesnt like the look. And this is a problem for him. Talk to any human being, and most voters are women. Somebodys got to tell that to him. Most voters are women. Okay, thats all im saying. Katy tur, thank you. You got a hell of a story out there youre following. Robert costa, another case of that. And kathleen, great columnist. Coming up by the way, the number of newspapers youre in now, how many now . Oh, gosh, i cant keep out. 500 . I think youve got the record. I know thats the case. New evidence that Hillary Clintons strong debate performance is paying off with voters. Weve got the latest battleground state polling and its good news for Hillary Clinton. Thats why its bad news for trump. Plus, trumps team is taunting Hillary Clinton with bringing up bill clintons infidelities. Now the Clinton Campaign is warning that that strategy will backfire. I think theyre right. So how should Hillary Clinton respond if trump does go down that road in the next debate . And libertarian president ial candidate gary johnson told me last night that Hillary Clinton would pushing the nuclear button. I thought that was the big news last night. And by the way, he didnt come up with a single world leader he liked, even called it another ale