Listened in on the president s july 25th phone call, the call. Telling investigators that that call was, quote, unusual and inappropriate and it shed light on other possible motivations to hold Security Assistance. Also transcripts just released frod white house adviser tim morrison. He confirms the testimony of ambassador bill taylor telling investigators that the ukrainians were told that military assistance, not just the white house meeting, was conditioned on a public announcement of political investigations that the president wanted. Now, that news breaking even as a saturday deposition was just wrapping up. Office of management and budget official mark sandy you see there, defying white house orders to testify, speaking with congressional investigators for roughly 5 1 2 hours. The omb is at the center of this investigation, this inquiry that actually held up because it is agency that actually paused and stopped the military aid being paid to ukraine. Were going to start with msnbcs Garrett Haake on capitol hill whos been reporting on this all day. Garrett . Richard, rule number one of washington scandals is to follow the money. Thats why democrats wanted mark sandy up here on the hill a top budget official. They hope he can show them something, some piece of evidence that no other witness could. Tonight, another crack in the white house impeachment firewall, with career budget official mark sandy defying the white house, spending more than five hours behind closed doors with house investigators. We want to know exactly how the president translated his political objective to shake down the Ukrainian Government for the favors he wanted, translated into the budget process. Reporter sandy on the hill to offer insight into the decision to delay military aid to ukraine. Aid that included weapons like this, antiarmor systems and mor tars, and u. S. Military trainers which were eventually delivered but democrats allege the 400 million of military aid was held up by the president who tried to use it as leverage to pressure ukraine to investigate former Vice President joe biden and his son, hunter. Republicans today digging in in defense of the president. You know, thats a thing about facts. They dont change. We have the call transcript, we have the two individuals on the call, President Trump, president zelensky, there was no link, pressure, or pushing whatsoever. Reporter in public hearings this week, three veteran ghats voicing their concerns about the president s conduct. Late friday a fourth diplomat describing a phone call he overheard between President Trump and Eu AmbassadorGordon Sondland the day after mr. Trumps phone call with ukraines president. State Department Official david holmes telling investigators he could hear the president s voice through ear piece of the phone asking about the investigation. Holmes testified sondland later said the president did not give a blank about ukraine, but only cared about the, quote, big stuff, meaning the bidens. Reporter richard, if you thought this week was crazy on the impeachment front, consider next week. Eight witnesses will testify in public over three days. Three of them listened to that phone call back on july 25th. And then theres the aforementioned Gordon Sondland. Hell testify on wednesday. If the fact that hes already changed his testimony once is any indication, hes expected to be grilled by lawmakers from both parties. So much happening, garrett. You dont know whether to look forward, backwards, or straight ahead. Lets look at saturday only. What was the outcome of testimony . Whats the word on the street there at the capitol . Reporter early word is sandys testimony was very technical. A lot of focus on the budget process, what it takes to move money like that 400 million to ukraine, and what it would have taken to stop it. Governments dont just venmo this type of money back and forth. Theres a lot of Technical Work that has to be done. The lawmakers wanted to dig into that process to understand what levers essentially the white house used to hold up that aid. Nbcs Garrett Haake on capitol hill. Thank you so much, garrett, for that report. Lets head to the white house now where nbcs Mike Viqueira has been following todays developments. Mike, how has the white house if at all to what has happened today as we get transcripts as well as from the testimony that happened on the hill today . Reporter we havent heard direct reaction to the latest transcripts that have been released, but republicans even before this ukraine scandal broke and even before all the things weve been talking about, even going back before the mueller report, theyve always been plagued by this fact that they are not on the same page message wise as the president. Just when you think they have a communications plan, the president walks right into it and detonates a bomb. We saw that with the testimony of Marie Yovanovitch yesterday, the Ukrainian Ambassador that the president recalled on the strength of those rumors in what she termed smears put forward by the back channel of Rudy Giuliani and the individuals that he was dealing with within the ukraine. The republican defense all along we heard from jim jordan in garretts piece, has been one about process, complaining about the closeddoor testimony. Now its moved into public, theyre still complaining saying how can there be a quid pro quo bribery, extortion, whatever you want to call it, if military aid in the end was not withheld and there was never an investigation announced by zblenlelensky or a else in ukraine, something that was demanded according to the testimony of Administration Officials themselves. And then, of course, theres the hearsay argument. That has been sort of blown up itself of the testimony of david holmes yesterday, having overheard according to his account that conversation between the president and Gordon Sondland. Add to all this President Trump today sort of playing the economic card. He says that if there is an impeachment, the dow, which is at 28,000 now, the highest ever, there will be the biggest fall. Its called the depression and not a recession, says the president. Whether that actually happens, of course, is an open question. We can have our own skepticism about that. But that is what the president part of what the president has been trying to say. We should be working on other things, the economy is great, hey, dont Pay Attention to the stuff that democrats are trying to put forward, richard. As you look ahead, as we were talking about with garrett here, Gordon Sondland, you have vindman also whos going to be testifying. But these are two big witnesses, right . Right. When it comes to the white house, how are they preparing, if at all, the idea of war room being banties around, dont have one, they cant say preparation that youre hearing . Reporter its like saying at the outset, there isnt a lot of coordination in terms of the message and what coordination there is is sort of whatever the president sees on fox or whatever hes watching and he decides to tweet. Thats sort of the direction it goes. Its very ad hoc and seat of the pants. You can see that when the hearings are taking place, the republican from new york trying to interject, trying to provoke adam schiff into admonishing her in public, she being a female lawmaker. You see allies and surrogates outside the white house tweeting about how poorly shes being treated. You know, everybody from steve bannon whos got a war room at the socalled Breitbart Embassy on capitol hill and other outside groups are trying to, you know, put forward these talking points, put forward these defenses and arguments to defend the president. But it really does have an ad hoc quality to it. And Gordon Sondland, that is going to be key testimony there. Hes at the center of all of this and he has already changed his testimony a couple of times. Hes amended it. Vindman is still serving as the ukraine expert here at the white house on the National Security council. Mike viqueira at the White House Joining us. Joining us now is Jill Winebanks, nick ackerman, former watergate assistant special prosecutor as well. Andrew, since we were talking about Gordon Sondland coming on wednesday, is this going to be the testimony of all tmz so far to date . Well, i think its shaping up to be that way, certainly, after david holmes testimony last night on capitol hill, of course mr. Homes is one of bill taylors aides in kiev. According to his Opening Statement, he basically confirmed bill taylors testimony from last wednesday, which was that he overheard ambassador sondland and President Trump discussing these investigations. They used crude language that was included in that Opening Statement as well. But in addition to that, Gordon Sondland during his initial testimony and deposition, did say the words i cannot recall very often. And then he had to amend his testimony before the transcript ended up being released. In that addendum he submitted to the house intelligence committee, he actually told investigators that he communicated directly with a senior ukrainian National Security official by the name of Andriy Yermak and told him that the ukrainians likely wouldnt receive that military aid until and unless the ukrainians publicly committed to those investigations that the president was seeking. Thats obviously something that democrats are going to try to draw out at this hearing. Mission to getting him to talk about more of the specifics of that conversation that he had with President Trump that david holmes relayed to investigators last night. Nick, for Gordon Sondland, because theres already statements that hes made that are not jiving well with what were hearing from others who have given testimony so far. Does this mean that if youre a democrat setting sitting on the intel committee, youve already got him . Got him pretty good. Hes going to be sitting down with his lawyer this week and his lawyer is going to tell him, you got to get your act together here and tell the truth because otherwise youre going to wind up being charged with obstructing congress and being a radiometric with roger stone. So there is a great incentive now on Gordon Sondland to come clean and tell the truth. I mean, i think hes at least got some outs here. He said he didnt recall certain things. You can see his recollection has now been refreshed because hes heard of this other testimony. Hes looked at phone records. I mean, i would love to see Gordon Sondlands cell phone. You and a couple other people. Right. Because that may tell you a lot here. If theres a lot of calls on there at that time, if they are the calls were talking about, and youve got holmes testimony, he has really got to do a lot of soul searching this week in determining what exactly hes going to say to the Congress Next week. Democrats have not already asked for these phone records, they definitely have done so now based on what happened this week. Jill, were on day 53. What chapter are we in in the impeachment inquiry . Were getting close to the end of the beginning. Its been very effective. I see so many parallels to what happened to watergate on your screen you just had, expletive deleted, that was a big thing in the watergate tapes. Follow the money, of course, was part of the watergate case. But these witnesses are going to have to come clean, and i think nick is correct. Sondland doesnt have much left to hide because there are two people left in addition to holmes who may corroborate what holmes said. And so he cant get away with lying anymore. Hes going to have to tell everything. If he doesnt want to be indicted for the perjury, because even saying i dont remember, i dont recall does not mean its not perjury when youre having a conversation like the one that he reportedly had. Thats something that you would remember and juries are willing to say if you said i dont remember it, we dont believe you. Even that could be perjury. If he wants to get a deal, he better come clean and do it fast. If you look at what came out today then, andrew, the hundreds of pages that have been mentioned, again, just several hours into this from Jennifer Williams as well as timothy morrison, both of whom will be testifying as has been said this coming tuesday, what do you think their role will fit as the prosecutors in this case, the democrats there on the intel committee, are pushing for. What is the relevance . It underscores the entire National Security apparatus, including political appointees at the white house, within Vice President pences office, and within the National Security council were all aghast that this Ukrainian Military aid was put on hold. The white house budget official who testified today, even he as basically the number three official at omb, being a career official, not a political appointee could not himself pinpoint by twhooi aid was put on hold. That is a key blind spot for democrats right now because they have not been able to get the politically appointed omb officials in for testimony. These are the people who apparently had actually signed off on the hold that the president had ordered on the military aid and implemented it. Theres a lot of budgetary processes as garrett was just talking about that need to be implemented at that point. Democrats have not been able to hear that testimony and its a big blind spot for them heading into this week. Jill, reflect on that, the money trail that andrew is talking about . Well, its very important and i think we can assume that if the continued hold on all the witnesses continues, that the congress can safely assume that its because it would be incriminating to have their testimony. The president would not be withholding evidence that was helpful to him, and it is a logical thing to conclude its against their interests. And i think that will perhaps fill the gap. It would be better to have people come forward and be honest. Starting with someone whos a career employee and someone who knows the procedures, maybe boring as its described in technical, but thats where you start, and then you go from there. Once you understand the process, you know who are the witnesses that you should be asking for. Obviously we know that mulvaney would be one of them, and that means the courts have a very Important Role and must act expeditiously because the decision about whether people can continue to ignore subpoenas, which i believe will be answered they cannot, is important, and it needs to be handled fast. So lets count on the courts to come forward and be significantly honest in this. Nick ackerman, when you look at the money trail here, the question might be mick mulvaney, acting chief of staff for the president of the United States, hes the head of omb, and what was said today, again, when we learned from what holmes said, which we dont know at the moment, follow the page 1 trail. I think thats right but a lot of it can be followed just by documentation. There has to be memos that came over. There has to be directives that came over. The whole idea behind this, its so out of the ordinary in the first instance. This is money that had to go to ukraine. They were being in a real war with the russians. They needed this aid. Everything weve seen shows that this is the leverage that donald trump was using as part of the his bribery scheme in order to get the ukrainians to do his bidding and open an investigation into the bidens. All he wanted was the ukrainians to announce the investigation so he could use that throughout the campaign. All right. Thank you so much, andrew december dero, Jill Winebanks as well as nick ackerman. Great to have all three of you. Straight ahead well look at the case against donald trump in the words of three people who offered compelling and damaging testimony this week at just the start of the public phase of this process. Nyquil severe gives you powerful relief for your worst cold and flu symptoms, on sunday night and every night. Nyquil severe. The nightime, sniffling, sneezing, coughing, aching, stuffy head, best sleep with a cold, medicine. Wheyou want relief. Fast. Only thermacare ultra pain relieving cream has 4 active ingredients to fight pain 4 different ways. Get powerful relief today, with thermacare. Make familysized meals fast, and because its a ninja foodi, it can do things no other oven can, like flip away. The ninja foodi air fry oven, the oven that crisps and flips away. Welcome back. We want to focus now on the case against donald trump made by three dedicated Foreign Service professionals in more than ten hours of public hearings that happened just this week. We want to bring you some of that. Here it is in their own words. And so even though President Trump was saying repeatedly that there is no quid pro quo, ambassador sondland relayed to you that the facts of the matter were that the white house meeting and the Security Assistance were conditioned on the announcement of these investigations. Is that your understanding . Thats my understanding. He described conditions for the