Articles of impeachment over to the senate. The standoff comes as congress departs for a holiday recess, look at the calendar, almost three weeks effectively freezing the state of play on this constitutional moment. Pelosi says shes weighing a delay in order to get a fair trial in the senate and wont select impeachment managers until she knows how the senate intends to conduct itself. But Mitch Mcconnell contends its decided House Democrats are afraid to bring their case. Speaker pelosi suggested that House Democrats may be too afraid too afraid to even transmit their shoddy work product to the senate. Well see whether House Democrats ever want to work up the courage to actually take their accusations to trial. Well, according to politico the politico magazine, an emboldened pelosi was dismissive of mcconnells charge saying fear is never a word used with me. You should know right away im never afraid and im rarely surprised. In an interview with the Associated Press the speaker said of trump, hell be impeached forever no matter what the senate does. Hes impeached forever because he violated our constitution. Im joined now by richard senator blumenthal of connecticut, a member of the Senate Judiciary committee. Former senator Barbara Boxer of california, and noah feldman, professor at harvard law school, one of the witnesses to testify to the House Judiciary Committee earlier this month about the legal arguments on impeachment. I want to start with senator blumenthal about this. Where do you stand on the constitutional question . Does pelosi have the prerogative to hold back the articles . This decision is indeed Nancy Pelosis to make. And her position is fully understandable that she wants some assurance there will be a full, fair, honest trial with witnesses and documents. After all of the extraordinarily able work done by the House Committee and the courage of those dedicated Public Servants who have come forward. She wants to make sure that we will have more than the sham charade that Mitch Mcconnell is promising. Keep in mind he has said theres no chance donald trump will be removed. He has promised he will take his cues from the white house, and he has enablers in my republican colleagues. He cannot do this sham without their 51 votes. But i will tell you something, chris, theres a court of appeals here. Its the electorate, the court of public opinion, and theyre saying 51 of all American People want those documents. More than 60 of republicans, and the fact of the matter is my republican friends and colleagues are doing a little soulsearching. Courage is contagious, and theyre going to be going back to their home districts, their states this holiday for two weeks, and theyre going to be hearing about those 71 of americans who say we need documents and witnesses. Barbara boxer, former senator of california, let me ask you a question. This is about guts, its about nerve. How long can nancy pelosi, the speaker as a person because shes making this decision personally, how long can she hold those documents . When they get back to the house coming back into session next year january 7th, first tuesday back, how long can she hold onto those documents politically and get away with it . Well, its a great question, but right now i think senator blumenthal is right. For her to just send those articles over to the senate after the foreman of the jury essentially stepped out to the microphone and said theres no difference between the way i feel and the way trumps lawyers feel, what shes done is remarkable. And i dont think shes out there on her own, chris. I think she is i know how she works. Shes got people around her who understand the constitution, who understand the gravity of the situation. The last point i make right now is when i sat through that clinton impeachment it was it was horrible. I as a democrat, obviously, i was so disappointed and so upset. You know, trent lott and tom daschle worked hand in glove. And they, guess what, what had witnesses. And those were three witnesses and they took depositions, and their testimony was used in the trial. So nancy what shes doing here, speaker pelosi, what shes doing here is shes shining the spotlight where it needs to go now, and thats on Mitch Mcconnell who calls himself the grim reaper. But he better step up to the plate and stop playing party politics. Let me go to the same question to professor feldman. Right or wrong she says im not sending over the documents. How long can she get away with it . If its two, three months, does she even hold the sort of damocles she can at any moment impeach the president. Does she have that authority . Under the constitution the house has the authority to impeach. The impeachment proffer takes place when someone from the house goes over to the senate and impeaches the president at the bar of the senate. Thats the way its always been expressed for a couple of hundred years. So until she does that, hes not technically impeached. When we stated the president s been impeached thats a kind of shorthand. We mean the house has voted to impeach him, but the actual impeachment takes place when the articles go over there. Im just asking because this is hardball, and its not just about the constitution but in the constitutional framework. If Mitch Mcconnell plays the usual way and says nothing, he doesnt speak again on this subject, he says im waiting for the documents to get here, pelosi, what leverage does she have at that point . If she says im not negotiating, im not sitting here with Chuck Schumer saying who wrng you gg us two people, we want and well give you, you give me a couple of bidens and maybe a whistleblower. He says im not going to negotiate that way, guys. Whats the pelosi operation there going to look like . Well, she doesnt have any formal leverage sorry, forgive me. I think she has no formal leverage. The only leverage she has is to hope theres a response from the senate and eventually to impeach when the time comes. Senator boxer, you have a thought there because i wonder if this becomes a standoff its a barricade situation. Shes saying were barricading up, were not giving you the document. The danger of a barricade, the i know this from irish history, the danger of it is eventually you have to break out of your own barricade. Im talking politics, barbara. Pure politics right now. No, i hear you. Her leverage, that is pretty straightforward to me. Its the people. The people want to have witnesses. There are polls that show that. Her other leverage is there are several members of the United States senate who know theyre in a tough spot. Theyre up for election in purple states. They will fight for a fair trial. So i think the genius of this she wont wait forever, but the genius of this is to put the spotlight on the process, and if Mitch Mcconnell says this is it, i think that therell be a lot of pressure on those purple state senators. So if she didnt do this, lets just take it that way. If she had just sent it over, okay, just sent it over then i dont think anyone would even be tuning into this because Everybody Knows we dont have the two thirds vote, so no one would be paying attention to Mitch Mcconnell. I agree with that. And the way he runs the senate, which is as my good former colleague, whom i miss, will tell you is with an iron fist, and hes the selfdescribed grim reaper. Let me ask senator blumenthal. Youre on the judiciary committee. Suppose Mitch Mcconnell, we know what he is. Sometimes hes elmer fudd, sometimes bugs bunny. I dont know what hes up to with this one. Suppose he comes back like bugs bunny and says you want two witnesses, i want joe and hunter biden. By the way, i also twanlt want the whistleblower. What do you say if he says heres the deal i want all the witnesses, not just yours . How do you respond . Well, chris, thats a great question. What we have ultimately is the power to call for a vote and put our republican colleagues on record. And thats exactly what we will do because they will be judged by senator, theyll say you protect the bidens, you protected joe biden, top of the class right now in terms of the polling. Youre protecting your possible nominee, youre protecting his son and youre protecting the whistleblower. And how do Democratic Senators respond to that . Im just gaming this out. What the American People want what the American People want and what we want is witnesses who have relevant evidence. Trump has blocked everyone of the up to 12 witnesses that were sought by the house. He has blocked every single document that was sought by the house. Every single one of them from the office of management and budget, the department of state, the department of energy, the department of defense. Those documents, those witnesses we will vote to have. Hunter biden has no direct evidence as those witnesses that we want mick mulvaney, john bolton, robert blaire, michael duffy, every one them responsible officials who have knowledge of this corrupt activity, bribery, soliciting something of value namely an investigation of his political opponent in return for an official act, his releasing that money, our taxpayer money to support an ally fighting for its life, ukraine. The Washington Post and thats why we want those documents and witnesses. This out, tonight the Washington Post is posting an article by former senator jeff flake. Republican of arizona. He addressed his old republican colleagues saying, quote, President Trump is on trial but in a very real sense so are you. And the Political Party which we belong. He warns, quote, the danger of an untruthful president is compounded when the coequal branch follows that president off the cliff into the abyss of unreality and untruth. If there ever was a time to put country over party, it is now. And by putting country over party, you might just save the grand old party before its too late. Senator flake conclusion by saying, if theres ever a time to put country over party, its now. Professor, thank you. How do you resolve this . How does this come out of the wash in two weeks . Now, the recess is not until the first or second week really in january. This could go on. How could you see it resolved . I think its only resolved by some negotiated solution in the senate where the senators figure out exactly what the procedure is going to be and come to terms with whos going to be called. And then the articles will be transmitted and the trial is going to happen, and that has to happen. Its necessary under the constitution at this point for there to be an actual trial in the senate. So i see a resolution coming when a negotiated solution is reached, which will have to be reached. Senator blumenthal, how do you get republicans to look at this as a conscientious decision that they really are jurors, theyre not just politicians . Well, of course Mitch Mcconnell has said he is not going to be impartial. In fact, he is going to put the president in charge of his own defense and in charge of the by, in effect, his being the president s defense team. How do we force our republican colleagues to search their conscience . Well, ultimately its public opinion, and the court of public opinion, that is the ultimate Appeals Court here. And i firmly believe that my republican colleagues are going to be under enormous pressure as Barbara Boxer has just put it so well. When they go home over these next two weeks, when they hear over the next two, six, eight weeks from American People who want a full, fair trial. And ultimately there will be some negotiation, but it cant be the kind of trap that Mitch Mcconnell is trying to set, and it cant be the charade or sham because we should absolutely refuse to be part of this complicit scheme. And it is ongoing. Thats what comes across so dramatically in the house impeachment articles that the president is continuing to solicit help from the russians. He is continuing to sustain and support these crackpot conspiracies about the ukrainians not the russians attacking our country, and it is a danger to our National Security that we must resist and reject. Well, maybe one of your colleagues, senator Mitch Mcconnell of utah is going to stand forth and be a profile in courage, mitt romney rather. Mitt romney, he could make a difference. Blumenthal of connecticut, always great having you on. And my friend Barbara Boxer, please keep coming back. Its great having you on. Professor, i was so impressed by your testimony. Thank you for coming here on hardball. Again, a perennial request for your presence here. Coming up, an influential evangelical magazine receives the wrath of trump for an oped calling for his removal from office. Christianity today cites trumps abuse of power, his lies and his, quote, grossly immoral character. Plus, how trump is continuing to weaponize the Justice Department. Bill barrs partisan investigation into the origins of the russian probe now reportedly has former cia director john brennen in his crosshairs. We got much more to get to tonight. Stick with us. 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The my account app makes todays Xfinity Customer Service simple, easy, awesome. Not my thing. Welcome back to hardball. Christianity today, an influential evangelical magazine, is calling for President Trumps removal from office. In a surprising editorial, the magazine describes the president as, quote, a nearperfect example of a human being who is morally lost and confused. The magazine calls for his removal because, quote, we believe the impeachment hearings have made it absolutely clear in a way that the Mueller Investigation did not that President Trump has abused his authority for personal gain and betrayed his constitutional oath. The impeachment hearings have illuminated the president s moral deficiencies for all to see. Well, the editor edited the piece by asking their evangelical readers this. If we dont reverse course now, will anyone take anything we say about justice and righteousness with any seriousness for decades to come . The piece struck a nerve with the president , of course. In a string of twitter attacks trump accused the magazine of being a far left magazine or very progressive that, quote, knows nothing about reading a perfect transcript of rather a routine phone call. Thats the president s tweet words. He added the fact is no president has ever done what i have done for evangelicals or religion itself. Thats trump talking. Despite what the president might say there, however, christianity today was founded in 1956 by the reverend billy graham who wanted to, quote, plant the evangelical flag in the middle of the road taking the conservative theological position, but a definite liberal approach to social problems. According to exit polls, by the way, 80 of white evangelicals voted for President Trump. And for more im joined by the person who wrote that editorial. Mark galli i editor in chief of christianity today. Hes retiring in a few days. Mr. Galli, thank you for joining us and i really want to know about your thinking, your feeling, your moral sense about this whole question of the president. I want to preface this by saying i watched the whole day of hearings two days ago and i didnt hear a single republican member of the house say one good word about the president s basic goodness, his honesty, his character. No defense of him as a person, as a human being under god, nothing. And i felt that to be a very serious deficiency on the part of those who defended him. Your thoughts about your own thinking . Yeah, my thinking runs along the same lines. Its not just republicans, of course my constituency is evangelical christians. Mr. Trump is obviously willfully ignorant about christianity today because were hardly a progressive or leftist magazine. Nor are we particularly a political magazine. Were a religious magazine with theological and spiritual purposes. In fact, id like to emphasize the point of this editorial was not to enter the political fray as to raise the conversation above the political fray and rest it on an ethical and moral basis that i would hope an evangelical audience could resonate with and appreciate, and actually because its in the middle of a partisan political debate. A lot of people are missing that. But a careful reading will indicate we dont have any politic