Transcripts For MSNBCW Hardball With Chris Matthews 20200216

The president ial candidate and resurfacing allegations over alleged treatment of women. Add to that rumors of a potential big name pick for vice president. Who might that be . And the first voting in the west for the democratic primary has started. Which voters will show up in force in the first test of minority voting . Plus, attorney general william barr. His next moves and what it means for what was a venorated government institution, the department of justice. Early voting but not anymore. The Washington Post reports on lawsuits filed against candidate Michael Bloomberg throughout his career. Saying they allege, quote, women were discriminated against at bloombergs Business Information company. Including a case brought by a federal agency and one filed by a former employee, who blamed bloomberg for creating a culture of Sexual Harassment and degradation. Now, that report also says a number of the cases have either been settled, dismissed in bloombergs favor, or closed because of a failure of the plaintiff to meet filing deadlines. The cases do not involve accusations of inappropriate sexual conduct. The allegations have centered around what bloomberg has said and about the Workplace Culture he fostered. Related or not, and also today, the drudge report says bloomberg is now considering Hillary Clinton as a potential running mate. Judge also saying the campaigns polling found they would be a, quote, formidable force. In this scenario, they say bloomberg may change residency from new york and instead go to colorado or go to florida to help in swinging some potential swing votes. Joining me to talk about this founder of the law firm Midwin Charles and associates. And cohost of the democracyish podcast. Josh lederman, National Political reporter for msnbc. Josh, lets start with this reporting on Michael Bloomberg putting those two together. What do we know . Well, we know that Michael Bloomberg has been under attack in a drip, drip, drip fashion over the last several days. Really, richard, as he started to climb in those national polls, it seemed like more of a potential threat not only to his democratic rivals in the primary but potentially to the president himself if he were to win that primary and face off with trump. So we have seen these recordings from comments that bloomberg has made years ago about africanamericans. About housing policy coming to light. Now, these allegations regarding his conduct towards women coming up. And we should point out a lot of these have to do with things that happened, allegedly, decades ago. At least many years ago. Things that had been reported previously, including that lawsuit. The Bloomberg Campaign seemed very ready to respond when these new allegations came out this morning. They quickly put up a video of women who have worked for him. Attesting to the fact that he has supported women in the company that he ran. And also, when he was mayor. Midwin, these go back a bit as josh has been saying. What do you know about these cases . And what might you be looking at, legally, from the perspective of what we know today and based on all the years past since then . One of the things i think is interesting about these cases is a lot of these women have signed nondisclosure agreements, ndas, right . So when you sign a nondisclosure agreement, what you do is you are essentially saying that you are not going to talk about, you are not going to disclose the allegations that arose. Youre not going to disclose what sort of agreement it is that youve reached with the other person. But let me just say one of the reasons why we are seeing Michael Bloomberg face a lot of these sort of drip drip stories is because, to date, he has not been vetted. He is someone who has sort of catapulted himself into the polls because hes been blanketing the entire country with ads, which is fine. But at the end of the day, hes got to earn everyones vote and do the same work that all the candidates have been doing. He hasnt participated in the debate. He has not yet sat down for a National Interview with anybody. So its its almost like we dont really know who he is other than these sort of news stories that are coming out, drip, drip, drip. And so the whole purpose of a primary is so that we can get to see who the candidates are. And how they look, particularly when compared against one another. Its why we do the debates. And i think we all can agree that, you know, its helpful to do that. Its helpful to see that. Particularly, the voting public. Stick your head out too far, its going to get whacked basically. As bloombergs numbers are getting better, he is starting to see part of that. Danielle, part of this. You are used to seeing this. As midwin was lamenting here, this is what he is facing at the moment now that his numbers are rising. There still is, aside from these allegations, there is a concern weve been talking about since the day he entered the race and how will this affect the africanamerican vote based on comments coming out earlier this week, as well as stopandfrisk. And when you balance that to communities of color, how does that balance out . You know, midwin and i were having a conversation earlier and we were saying black people are always faced with having to pick the the best of two evils, right . Like, the best person. There is nobody on that stage right now that has a good record in terms of the black community. Exactly. But thats always its always always. Its always the black community thats just like, well, you cant have everything. And were like can you not do black face . Can you not throw black men up against the wall . Like, is that so hard to do . Look. Research is a part of the political game. But at the end of the day, Michael Bloomberg, one, he needs to face up to his record. And just for me, im sorries dont really work. What i would like for him to do is create policies and missions around creating more equity in the black community. Closing the racial wealth gap. Talking a talking about our Public School system. Talking about healthcare disparities for poor, black women. I would like some plans that warren has put together. And dont try and tell us, oh, well i did this thing but wasnt really sure of the outcome of what was going to happen with stopandfrisk. Yes, you did and its intended outcome was to traumatize and harass generations of black and brown men in america. Here is part of the reason why, speaking of polls, lets go straight to one thats happening right now. Because today marks the first day of the voting in the west. The first time, also another swing state we are talking aktd and thats nevada. Early voting kicking off today. The caucus officially happens in a week, though. These voters ats libraries in east las vegas, well, we might have those pictures of those voters for you shortly. Theyre outcasting votes. Nevada will look completely different than iowa, as you might already know. Especially on demographics. Iowa is more than 90 white. Nevada is nearly 30 latino, 10 black, 10 asianamerican pacific islander. If you do your math there, it is a majority minority state. The first one so far. And when you look at this, quote, asianamericans are the Fastest Growing ethnic group in clarke county. To serve a large filipinoamerican population. A fact that many folks dont know. I didnt know. Joining us right now, john ralston, editor of the nevada independent. To our conversation, john, you and i have talked many a time about the recent elections over the last decade or so. Whats different this time, voting now starting today . Well, early voting has never existed before, richard, for the caucus. I mean, its antithetical to a caucus. Sounds like it, yeah. Yeah. Where you go in and you and there is a whole bunch of people. And then you you separate and theres viability. But the the dnc, the Democratic National committee, insisted on making caucuses more accessible. So one of the ways the party here came up with to do that was to have early voting. So essentially, you have a hybrid going on now, right . People are voting today and the next three days afterwards. Theyre just going in and theyre filling out paper ballots. And then those results are going to be mixed in on caucus day a week from today. They have to be put in the exact precincts to determine viability. Its not a normal ballot, though. Youre not just voting for one candidate. In fact, you have to fill out your first three choices, at least, or the the the ballot is not valid. So its a caucus with early voting, with new rules. So it should be fine. Josh, john says it should be fine. For some reason, im thinking are they trying to outdo iowa here . Josh . They certainly are and that he have been pretty outspoken about that. And look, i think there is some trepidation in the party right now given what a debacle the Iowa Caucuses were. That could replicate itself here. We saw the New Hampshire primary went off without a hitch as far as the number crunching there. But we also saw the democrats here in nevada take steps to distance themselves from the process used in iowa by getting rid of any kind of app. They knew the word app was going to make people really concerned. And so theyve emphasized that while theyre have some type of an ipad situation to help people do some of the mathematics, theyre not going to do the kinds of things in iowa that led to that to be such a disaster. Yeah. Folks do not want political appnea happening again here. John, when you look at this, i mention a majority minority state. This is this is nevada and South Carolina, put together, the candidates are surely facing a new test, right, about what those of color might see in their candidates. What are you looking for in nevada . Well, you are already seeing it. And just real quickly to joshs point, the the state party here has taken almost all of the technology out of it. Theyre not just using paper ballots and ipads but the lines were so long today, richard, that a lot of the places took away the ipads and just used paper ballots. So far, the turnouts been huge. No major problems. Having said that yeah. Will latinos show up . Thats one of the questions, right . Whether latinoamericans will show up there in nevada. You have the culinary union, which is the Largest Union in the state. Its about half latino. They are driving their folks to the polls. They have a great turnout operation. Now, they have it indoors. Theres been a big scuffle about them coming out essentially against bernie sanders, who they say is going to end their healthcare. But they havent endorsed anybody. Meanwhile, this is kind of a last stand for joe biden. He knows that he has to get a high africanamerican turn oout. He had two very prominent africanamerican elected officials endorse him on the eve of the caucus. He was campaigning in the Africanamerican Community today. So so the demographics here, of course, are very different than iowa and New Hampshire, which are 90 white. And you pointed out what the what the count is here. John ralston, always a great pleasure to talk to you. Of course, josh lederman, as well. Thank you both for your reporting there. Now, the limits to the powers of the presidency are being tested it would appear again this week. Attacked federal prosecutors over sentencing recommendations for his longtime ally roger stone. Bill barr hit at his tweets. That while barr appointed a u. S. Attorney to view the case against michael flynn. Plus, the weekended with the dropped charges against andrew mccabe. And we learned the judge in the mcca mccabe case was like a, quote, banana republic. Criticism about barr using the department to help the president politically. Heres barr addressing that concern in senate testimony. All right. We do not have that sound byte. But barr there defending that he was not asked. Barr graces the house judiciary at the end of next month to testify. Joining us now, democratic congresswoman Sheila Jackson lee, who sits on the house judiciary committee. Always a pleasure, representative, to have you here. How are you doing . Richard, good to be with you. Im doing wonderful. Thank you. And thank you for really explaining what were facing here in america. That was just a partial list, as you know, of what are some of the concerns that have come up especially from your side of the aisle here. Who should let me ask you this first should Congress Bring the four attorneys related to the roger stone case, the u. S. Attorneys, should they be asked to come to congress to testify . I think at some point. Obviously, you know that the judge will be hearing this case shortly. And i would not like to intervene in the judicial process. And i think the judge is well qualified to probe what happened. We heard in your earlier presentation that one of the judges indicated that the actions dealing with the Deputy Director of the fbi was like a banana republic. Heres what were grappling with and heres what the American People are facing. Weve always had the comfort of knowing that the department of justice were the peoples lawyer. I remember in the history of civil rights, we always knew that they would come to rescue those civil rights marchers and those who suffered in the south when they were protesting for simple, basic rights. Now, we have a situation where it is dominated not by the highest Law Enforcement officer of the nation, the attorney general. But its a sidebar conversation for the white house, the president of the United States, running and ruining a place where people seek refuge for justice. And i think its important to say to general barr that his obligation to the congress and three equal branches of government is to tell the truth. And so what we expect, on march 31st, is an attorney general that will come and tell the truth. Then after his testimony or after the judge deals with the roger stone case, i absolutely think it is appropriate to listen to those lawyers and the one that walked out to find out what happened. What will you, specifically, ask the attorney general when he comes before congress . What would you like to ask specifically . Richard, if i might say, things that American People dont think of because there is so much noise around the president s friends. But i really want to find out whether this country is prepared for the 2020 elections. Whether we will have the debacle that we had in the 2000 election and other elections. Whether the russian bots will be taking over. Whether they are prepared for a secure election. And why have they not promoted the congress insisted on the United States senate to pass the Voting Rights act . But in adigdition to that, i wi be interested in why jesse lou was summarily removed. Im confused and baffled about why there is a back channel for rudy giuliani, not affiliated with the government, to provide information directly to general barr on the opponents of the president. That is clearly a situation of abuse of power and its a confusing as to what good is it for the American People . What is the Public Interest . And speaking of and then finally go ahead. Speaking of confusion, what happened this week between the president and the attorney general . What do you make of it . Is it a true disagreement . Was it kabuki theater . What is your point of view on this . Well, by your work, shall you be judged. I am only reminded of the 19pa19 19page memo i think it was 19 pages that general barr citizen barr wrote to say the president has no limits on his or her power. And obviously, that was evidence in his misinterpretation of the mueller report. Keeping it from the public eye and reporting that all was well, nothing had occurred, and lets put it in the dustbowl. Director mueller had to come out promptly and say that was not accurate and finally, in the last report, said if i could have exonerated this administration, this president , i would have done so. So what i would say to you is that this is going to be a challenge but its the responsibility of congress to accept the challenge and to engage in oversight of this particular attorney general. And expect for him to tell the truth. Thats what we will be looking for at that time. You may have read that there are some reports that the attorney general continues to review cases, review some sentencing. What will it take for you to want to bring forward the attorneys, the four related to the roger stone case, many of your fellow democrats are saying we need to bring them before congress. We have questions. Well, i dont think we should rule it out. We have to see what the chairman of the committee will assess that is needed. But i would say to you that i dont think itd be appropriate to bring those lawyers in before the court has had a chance to proceed in the court proceeding. Because if no one else believes in this system of justice, i do. And due process is important. Equal protection under the law. But there is no doubt that these lawyers would have vital information. They walked away from the case. And one lawyer, richard, walked out of the department of justice. And i want to make this point. General barr said hes being bullied by the media. Hes being bullied by congress. And hes being bullied by any array of people. He is not being bullied. Hes being challenged by lawyers with moral integrity that have worked for years in the department of and justice. And they are stunned at the present behavior and actions in that particular department. And i view them as american heroes, just as i did Lieutenant Colonel vindman. They are refusing to go along with the kabuki show, as you said, because they want to be what the American People want them to be. And that is lawyers in the Public Interest for the Washington Post<\/a> reports on lawsuits filed against candidate Michael Bloomberg<\/a> throughout his career. Saying they allege, quote, women were discriminated against at bloombergs Business Information<\/a> company. Including a case brought by a federal agency and one filed by a former employee, who blamed bloomberg for creating a culture of Sexual Harassment<\/a> and degradation. Now, that report also says a number of the cases have either been settled, dismissed in bloombergs favor, or closed because of a failure of the plaintiff to meet filing deadlines. The cases do not involve accusations of inappropriate sexual conduct. The allegations have centered around what bloomberg has said and about the Workplace Culture<\/a> he fostered. Related or not, and also today, the drudge report says bloomberg is now considering Hillary Clinton<\/a> as a potential running mate. Judge also saying the campaigns polling found they would be a, quote, formidable force. In this scenario, they say bloomberg may change residency from new york and instead go to colorado or go to florida to help in swinging some potential swing votes. Joining me to talk about this founder of the law firm Midwin Charles<\/a> and associates. And cohost of the democracyish podcast. Josh lederman, National Political<\/a> reporter for msnbc. Josh, lets start with this reporting on Michael Bloomberg<\/a> putting those two together. What do we know . Well, we know that Michael Bloomberg<\/a> has been under attack in a drip, drip, drip fashion over the last several days. Really, richard, as he started to climb in those national polls, it seemed like more of a potential threat not only to his democratic rivals in the primary but potentially to the president himself if he were to win that primary and face off with trump. So we have seen these recordings from comments that bloomberg has made years ago about africanamericans. About housing policy coming to light. Now, these allegations regarding his conduct towards women coming up. And we should point out a lot of these have to do with things that happened, allegedly, decades ago. At least many years ago. Things that had been reported previously, including that lawsuit. The Bloomberg Campaign<\/a> seemed very ready to respond when these new allegations came out this morning. They quickly put up a video of women who have worked for him. Attesting to the fact that he has supported women in the company that he ran. And also, when he was mayor. Midwin, these go back a bit as josh has been saying. What do you know about these cases . And what might you be looking at, legally, from the perspective of what we know today and based on all the years past since then . One of the things i think is interesting about these cases is a lot of these women have signed nondisclosure agreements, ndas, right . So when you sign a nondisclosure agreement, what you do is you are essentially saying that you are not going to talk about, you are not going to disclose the allegations that arose. Youre not going to disclose what sort of agreement it is that youve reached with the other person. But let me just say one of the reasons why we are seeing Michael Bloomberg<\/a> face a lot of these sort of drip drip stories is because, to date, he has not been vetted. He is someone who has sort of catapulted himself into the polls because hes been blanketing the entire country with ads, which is fine. But at the end of the day, hes got to earn everyones vote and do the same work that all the candidates have been doing. He hasnt participated in the debate. He has not yet sat down for a National Interview<\/a> with anybody. So its its almost like we dont really know who he is other than these sort of news stories that are coming out, drip, drip, drip. And so the whole purpose of a primary is so that we can get to see who the candidates are. And how they look, particularly when compared against one another. Its why we do the debates. And i think we all can agree that, you know, its helpful to do that. Its helpful to see that. Particularly, the voting public. Stick your head out too far, its going to get whacked basically. As bloombergs numbers are getting better, he is starting to see part of that. Danielle, part of this. You are used to seeing this. As midwin was lamenting here, this is what he is facing at the moment now that his numbers are rising. There still is, aside from these allegations, there is a concern weve been talking about since the day he entered the race and how will this affect the africanamerican vote based on comments coming out earlier this week, as well as stopandfrisk. And when you balance that to communities of color, how does that balance out . You know, midwin and i were having a conversation earlier and we were saying black people are always faced with having to pick the the best of two evils, right . Like, the best person. There is nobody on that stage right now that has a good record in terms of the black community. Exactly. But thats always its always always. Its always the black community thats just like, well, you cant have everything. And were like can you not do black face . Can you not throw black men up against the wall . Like, is that so hard to do . Look. Research is a part of the political game. But at the end of the day, Michael Bloomberg<\/a>, one, he needs to face up to his record. And just for me, im sorries dont really work. What i would like for him to do is create policies and missions around creating more equity in the black community. Closing the racial wealth gap. Talking a talking about our Public School<\/a> system. Talking about healthcare disparities for poor, black women. I would like some plans that warren has put together. And dont try and tell us, oh, well i did this thing but wasnt really sure of the outcome of what was going to happen with stopandfrisk. Yes, you did and its intended outcome was to traumatize and harass generations of black and brown men in america. Here is part of the reason why, speaking of polls, lets go straight to one thats happening right now. Because today marks the first day of the voting in the west. The first time, also another swing state we are talking aktd and thats nevada. Early voting kicking off today. The caucus officially happens in a week, though. These voters ats libraries in east las vegas, well, we might have those pictures of those voters for you shortly. Theyre outcasting votes. Nevada will look completely different than iowa, as you might already know. Especially on demographics. Iowa is more than 90 white. Nevada is nearly 30 latino, 10 black, 10 asianamerican pacific islander. If you do your math there, it is a majority minority state. The first one so far. And when you look at this, quote, asianamericans are the Fastest Growing<\/a> ethnic group in clarke county. To serve a large filipinoamerican population. A fact that many folks dont know. I didnt know. Joining us right now, john ralston, editor of the nevada independent. To our conversation, john, you and i have talked many a time about the recent elections over the last decade or so. Whats different this time, voting now starting today . Well, early voting has never existed before, richard, for the caucus. I mean, its antithetical to a caucus. Sounds like it, yeah. Yeah. Where you go in and you and there is a whole bunch of people. And then you you separate and theres viability. But the the dnc, the Democratic National<\/a> committee, insisted on making caucuses more accessible. So one of the ways the party here came up with to do that was to have early voting. So essentially, you have a hybrid going on now, right . People are voting today and the next three days afterwards. Theyre just going in and theyre filling out paper ballots. And then those results are going to be mixed in on caucus day a week from today. They have to be put in the exact precincts to determine viability. Its not a normal ballot, though. Youre not just voting for one candidate. In fact, you have to fill out your first three choices, at least, or the the the ballot is not valid. So its a caucus with early voting, with new rules. So it should be fine. Josh, john says it should be fine. For some reason, im thinking are they trying to outdo iowa here . Josh . They certainly are and that he have been pretty outspoken about that. And look, i think there is some trepidation in the party right now given what a debacle the Iowa Caucuses<\/a> were. That could replicate itself here. We saw the New Hampshire<\/a> primary went off without a hitch as far as the number crunching there. But we also saw the democrats here in nevada take steps to distance themselves from the process used in iowa by getting rid of any kind of app. They knew the word app was going to make people really concerned. And so theyve emphasized that while theyre have some type of an ipad situation to help people do some of the mathematics, theyre not going to do the kinds of things in iowa that led to that to be such a disaster. Yeah. Folks do not want political appnea happening again here. John, when you look at this, i mention a majority minority state. This is this is nevada and South Carolina<\/a>, put together, the candidates are surely facing a new test, right, about what those of color might see in their candidates. What are you looking for in nevada . Well, you are already seeing it. And just real quickly to joshs point, the the state party here has taken almost all of the technology out of it. Theyre not just using paper ballots and ipads but the lines were so long today, richard, that a lot of the places took away the ipads and just used paper ballots. So far, the turnouts been huge. No major problems. Having said that yeah. Will latinos show up . Thats one of the questions, right . Whether latinoamericans will show up there in nevada. You have the culinary union, which is the Largest Union<\/a> in the state. Its about half latino. They are driving their folks to the polls. They have a great turnout operation. Now, they have it indoors. Theres been a big scuffle about them coming out essentially against bernie sanders, who they say is going to end their healthcare. But they havent endorsed anybody. Meanwhile, this is kind of a last stand for joe biden. He knows that he has to get a high africanamerican turn oout. He had two very prominent africanamerican elected officials endorse him on the eve of the caucus. He was campaigning in the Africanamerican Community<\/a> today. So so the demographics here, of course, are very different than iowa and New Hampshire<\/a>, which are 90 white. And you pointed out what the what the count is here. John ralston, always a great pleasure to talk to you. Of course, josh lederman, as well. Thank you both for your reporting there. Now, the limits to the powers of the presidency are being tested it would appear again this week. Attacked federal prosecutors over sentencing recommendations for his longtime ally roger stone. Bill barr hit at his tweets. That while barr appointed a u. S. Attorney to view the case against michael flynn. Plus, the weekended with the dropped charges against andrew mccabe. And we learned the judge in the mcca mccabe case was like a, quote, banana republic. Criticism about barr using the department to help the president politically. Heres barr addressing that concern in senate testimony. All right. We do not have that sound byte. But barr there defending that he was not asked. Barr graces the house judiciary at the end of next month to testify. Joining us now, democratic congresswoman Sheila Jackson<\/a> lee, who sits on the house judiciary committee. Always a pleasure, representative, to have you here. How are you doing . Richard, good to be with you. Im doing wonderful. Thank you. And thank you for really explaining what were facing here in america. That was just a partial list, as you know, of what are some of the concerns that have come up especially from your side of the aisle here. Who should let me ask you this first should Congress Bring<\/a> the four attorneys related to the roger stone case, the u. S. Attorneys, should they be asked to come to congress to testify . I think at some point. Obviously, you know that the judge will be hearing this case shortly. And i would not like to intervene in the judicial process. And i think the judge is well qualified to probe what happened. We heard in your earlier presentation that one of the judges indicated that the actions dealing with the Deputy Director<\/a> of the fbi was like a banana republic. Heres what were grappling with and heres what the American People<\/a> are facing. Weve always had the comfort of knowing that the department of justice were the peoples lawyer. I remember in the history of civil rights, we always knew that they would come to rescue those civil rights marchers and those who suffered in the south when they were protesting for simple, basic rights. Now, we have a situation where it is dominated not by the highest Law Enforcement<\/a> officer of the nation, the attorney general. But its a sidebar conversation for the white house, the president of the United States<\/a>, running and ruining a place where people seek refuge for justice. And i think its important to say to general barr that his obligation to the congress and three equal branches of government is to tell the truth. And so what we expect, on march 31st, is an attorney general that will come and tell the truth. Then after his testimony or after the judge deals with the roger stone case, i absolutely think it is appropriate to listen to those lawyers and the one that walked out to find out what happened. What will you, specifically, ask the attorney general when he comes before congress . What would you like to ask specifically . Richard, if i might say, things that American People<\/a> dont think of because there is so much noise around the president s friends. But i really want to find out whether this country is prepared for the 2020 elections. Whether we will have the debacle that we had in the 2000 election and other elections. Whether the russian bots will be taking over. Whether they are prepared for a secure election. And why have they not promoted the congress insisted on the United States<\/a> senate to pass the Voting Rights<\/a> act . But in adigdition to that, i wi be interested in why jesse lou was summarily removed. Im confused and baffled about why there is a back channel for rudy giuliani, not affiliated with the government, to provide information directly to general barr on the opponents of the president. That is clearly a situation of abuse of power and its a confusing as to what good is it for the American People<\/a> . What is the Public Interest<\/a> . And speaking of and then finally go ahead. Speaking of confusion, what happened this week between the president and the attorney general . What do you make of it . Is it a true disagreement . Was it kabuki theater . What is your point of view on this . Well, by your work, shall you be judged. I am only reminded of the 19pa19 19page memo i think it was 19 pages that general barr citizen barr wrote to say the president has no limits on his or her power. And obviously, that was evidence in his misinterpretation of the mueller report. Keeping it from the public eye and reporting that all was well, nothing had occurred, and lets put it in the dustbowl. Director mueller had to come out promptly and say that was not accurate and finally, in the last report, said if i could have exonerated this administration, this president , i would have done so. So what i would say to you is that this is going to be a challenge but its the responsibility of congress to accept the challenge and to engage in oversight of this particular attorney general. And expect for him to tell the truth. Thats what we will be looking for at that time. You may have read that there are some reports that the attorney general continues to review cases, review some sentencing. What will it take for you to want to bring forward the attorneys, the four related to the roger stone case, many of your fellow democrats are saying we need to bring them before congress. We have questions. Well, i dont think we should rule it out. We have to see what the chairman of the committee will assess that is needed. But i would say to you that i dont think itd be appropriate to bring those lawyers in before the court has had a chance to proceed in the court proceeding. Because if no one else believes in this system of justice, i do. And due process is important. Equal protection under the law. But there is no doubt that these lawyers would have vital information. They walked away from the case. And one lawyer, richard, walked out of the department of justice. And i want to make this point. General barr said hes being bullied by the media. Hes being bullied by congress. And hes being bullied by any array of people. He is not being bullied. Hes being challenged by lawyers with moral integrity that have worked for years in the department of and justice. And they are stunned at the present behavior and actions in that particular department. And i view them as american heroes, just as i did Lieutenant Colonel<\/a> vindman. They are refusing to go along with the kabuki show, as you said, because they want to be what the American People<\/a> want them to be. And that is lawyers in the Public Interest<\/a> for the American People<\/a>. So i think those lawyers are going to be very important to the judiciary committee. I think it has to be in time. Think the chairman, with members, will make the decision when that is appropriate, along with our leadership. But what we want to do is get on with the peoples business, really. Have this election but show the American People<\/a> that we can do better. From the great city of houston, texas, representative Sheila Jackson<\/a> lee. Representative, thanks for spending time with us. Thank you. Have a wonderful evening. Still to come, well tell you about the fallout from another Michael Bloomberg<\/a> controversy. This one, concerning stopandfrisk, as we were talking a moment ago. But first, a new feud between President Trump<\/a> and john kelly and the convoluted feud between the president and bill barr that has already taken a new turn in the past 24 hours. And before we go, reminder for you to catch the democratic debate this wednesday from las vegas. Live coverage starts at 9 00 p. M. Eastern right here on msnbc. Limu emu doug [ siren ] give me your hand i can save you. Lots of money with Liberty Mutual<\/a> we customize your Car Insurance<\/a> so you only pay for what you need only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. When youyou spend lessfair, and get way more. 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Plus 0 interest for 36 months. Ends monday to have public statements and tweets made about the department, about our people in the department, our men and women here, about cases pending in the department, and about judges before whom we have cases, make it impossible for me to do my job. Im not going to be bullied or influenced by anybody. Attorney general bill barr quote of the week there. But there is also white house dheefor chief of staff john kelly. The atlantic reports in a wideranging speech, kelly was highly critical of trump on north korea, immigration, and more. Kelly is making the case that he spoke truth to power inside the Trump Administration<\/a>. The trouble is Many Americans<\/a> wont be convinced. Theyd likely ask why someone who held so much power couldnt quash the policies he is criticizing. Lets go to peter nicholas, White House Reporter<\/a> for the atlantic. Midwin charles, attorney and founder of the Midwin Charles<\/a> and associates. Host of the daily podcast and host of the democracyish podcast, cynthia, former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst. Peter, lets start with you on this. You have the exclusive reporting on this. And we just touched on this at the very surface. What else was said . And what else was the energy here that kelly was trying to present . He presented himself pretty well as the antitrump in some ways. He took issue with many of trumps most controversial and highprofile policies. Including north korea. Trump has tried, through personal diplomacy, to convince north Korean Leader<\/a> kim jong un to give up Nuclear Weapons<\/a>. John kelly, who was chief of staff for almost a year and a half at the white house, made clear that was a fools errand. That north korea was never going to give up its Nuclear Weapons<\/a> and that, in fact, kim jong un was buying time, in essence, to continue the program. While trump was negotiating. He also talked about Lieutenant Colonel<\/a> alexander vindman, and was portrayed him as a person who was acting on principle. Trump fired vindman. Was very upset about vindmans role and testimony in the impeachment trial. Kelly made clear that vindman was somebody who was following orders, who was acting in principled fashion. So he drew a fair amount of distance between himself and Trump Administration<\/a>s policies. And its one of very few times weve heard people at that high level who worked in the white house really speak out forthrightly about what happened inside. Cynthia, how do you juxtapose these two . So you have general kelly and youve got the attorney general here talking in very different ways. And and you even hear in the reporting, according to our good friend here, peter, is that he, during the Senate Impeachment<\/a> trial, kelly actually told a reporter that lawmakers needed to hear from witnesses. This is not a person that is following the Trump Administration<\/a> songbook here. What is bill barr doing . Well, bill barr oh, sorry. Sorry, go ahead. No. Theres two different cases. The case of barr, to me, is barr just trying to cover himself because he has a revolt going on in the department of justice. And he has a revolt in the United States<\/a> Attorneys Office<\/a> in d. C. , which has about 300 hours. And he h lawyers. And he has to figure out some way to get things back under control. But dont kid yourself. Bill barr is the guy who lied about mueller and the mueller report. Bill barr is the guy who said there was spying when there wasnt. Bill barr is the guy who opened up this intake process for giuliani. Bill barr has done nothing when federal judges are attacked. Hes done nothing when the president attacks jurors. He as upended the stone and flynn prosecutions and now it appears that he is trying to basically for other prosecutors who will come in. So i have absolutely no trust in bill barr. And i personally believe this business about im trying to push back on the president is is just fake and ridiculous. And my hunch is that nobody seriously within the department of justice or the United States<\/a> Attorneys Office<\/a> in d. C. Believes it. And while i am on a tear just for a moment. Kelly left the white house in december of 2018. And now, suddenly, he does not believe in the racist comments. And, oh, i think the mexicans are coming here for jobs. And i dont think we need a fence from sea to shining sea. And i dont believe that theyre rapists and murderers. And and and oh, this north korea thing was just wrong and it was never going to work anyway. And isnt vindman great . Well, you know what . Too little, too late. He should have said something when we needed him to speak up. He had an obligation and maybe he couldnt do it when he was inside the white house. But he should have resigned and the minute he resigned, he should have had something to say. Quickly here, midwin. Cynthias had her release. I agree with cynthia. I was just about to ask does he have a book coming out or something . Like, is there a reason why we are just now hearing about this . I mean, i think perhaps one of the most astonishing things with this Trump Administration<\/a> that weve seen is how many people really have no character and no integrity. How dare you . How dare you wait all of this time to tell the American People<\/a> some of the most important, some of the most damning things about this administration with respect to north korea and with respect to this president. Danielle, you heard Sheila Jackson<\/a> lee, she is saying we dont need to have in question those four attorneys. I am going to wait for the doj to fix itself. I jut dont understand what were waiting for. Maya angelou said when people show you who you are, believe them. How many times does bill barr have to lie to the American People<\/a> before people realize he is a liar and a fraud, just like the man he works for . This is not the department of justice. The department of justice has fallen and we need to understand that and move on from there. In your reporting, what concerns you the most from this article . Well, can i Say Something<\/a> about bill barr, though, for one second . Yes. I appreciate the passion i just heard. But i will say my sense is trump may well not appreciate those comments that barr made about tweeting. That when bill barr says that tweeting is making his life impossible, my sense is that trump is going to push back on that and already has. He issued a tweet the next day basically defying what bill barr had asked for. So trump tends to be somewhat thin skinned. And when when his aides, who he sees them all as his political appointees, expected to do his bidding. If they are going to show any sort of resistance, trump may bridle at that. And i wonder how secure barr may be in his job. Do you think he might resign . I think trump may well have decided that we dont quite know yet but i thought barrs comments on trumps tweets hit trump where it hurts. I mean, trumps tweeting is so fundamental to his pore sersona political persona and the way he communicates. I thought that was a pretty direct attack that we shouldnt ignore or downplay. I dont know that that has any significance. At the end of the day, the concern is that bill barr has, for all intents and purposes, not been acting as an attorney general. Hes been acting as an attorney specific for donald trump. And he has sort of weaponized the department of justice as though they are a personal law firm to donald trump and co. Donald trumps friends. And that really is the most important thing here. Not so much how donald trump views the comments made by bill barr. Panel stays with us. Peter nicholas, thank you for your great, exclusive reporting. You have to get this article in the atlantic. I appreciate you for stopping by. Cynthia as well. Coming up, Michael Bloomberg<\/a>, the candidate haunted by the Michael Bloomberg<\/a> of yesterday. How the former new york city mayors past policies and the framing of them could hurt his chances with a diverse electorate. G to repair dry, damaged hair without weighing it down . Try pantene daily moisture renewal conditioner. Its colorsafe formula uses smart conditioners to microtarget damage helping to repair hair without weighing it down. Try pantene. Be stronger. With nicorette coated ice mint. Layered with flavor. Its the first and only coated nicotine lozenge. For an amazing taste. That outlasts your craving. Nicorette ice mint. Excuse me. Uh. Do you mind. Being a motour . What could be better than being a motour . The real question is. Do you mind not being a motour . I do. For those who were born to ride, theres progressive. I do. Dad not cool. O, son. You know whats not uncool . Old spice after hours. And jazz. Dad, i prefer ultra smooth, it handles sweat without all that. Jazz. Youre right son. Redefining the frontrunners in the race. All the candidates are now facing the South Carolina<\/a> primary and the never caucus. And the stakes are high with both states saturated with diverse voters, particularly latino and black communities who many would say have been hurt by recent gop policies. Make no mistake, next saturday will be about the black vote and the timing couldnt be worse for mike bloomberg, who continues his apology tour for once supporting the Controversial Police<\/a> tactic of stopandfrisk. Ruled unconstitutional because it targeted minority communities. After a 2015 audio recording of him surfaced just this week, bloomberg apologized again. And then this week, also, the New York Times<\/a> asked the cofounder of the black Voters Matter Fund<\/a> to talk through her thoughts about bloombergs stopandfrisk and the state of the 2020 leksz. When asked about how she thought race and racism were being discussed among candidates she said i think what we are experiencing in this moment, that there is always a residue much racism. Part of what we have seen is a boomerang effect from white politicians that saw or see black people as expendable. Including with bloomberg. We see how insidious racism is in this country and how much it is embedded in the beliefs and the white leadership in particular. Natasha brown, cofounder of the black Voters Matter Fund<\/a> and the woman who said that very thing this week joins us anyway. The rest of the panel back with us right now. Natasha, as you look at what we are seeing and and Michael Bloomberg<\/a> is the focus at the moment. Of course, as you know because were looking at nevada and South Carolina<\/a>, theres a bigger discussion to be had. But lets start with Michael Bloomberg<\/a> and the stories of this week. Were now on a saturday. And as we look back at what happened, where do we end up on this weekend with Michael Bloomberg<\/a> . You know, i think what were going to see is were going to see more stories come out that weve what were hearing now from this week. Part of what has happened is he has not been under an examination. He has not participated in the debate. Hes not made himself available. Hes not done a National Interview<\/a>. So he hasnt been kpanexamined his candidacy hasnt been examined. So you are starting to see someone whos been very comfortable in his position of power. Here it is hes the 12th wealthiest man in the world. Not just in america but in the world that has not had to be accountable even for his own campaign, he said himself. And has been doing that. He is going to fund his campaign himself. And in funding his campaign, there is no accountability of ive got to appeal to this particular group so i can get my campaign financing. And so i think that part of what is happening is that what were going to see, i think there is going to be more thats coming. That unearths things that he said in the past and not and the not not so past. I want to go to some new polling here from the quinnipiac, specifically, among black voters. And bloomberg, when you look at the numbers here, a big jump for him. Now, at 22 . That is up 15 percentage points. Im not sure if we have that graphic. And before that, for joe biden, hes gone down 22 . Danielle, what are we seeing in the balance here . It was thought that joe biden had the black vote tied up. Uhhuh. Joe biden hasnt had anything tied up. Okay. This entire election season. So but in terms of right. But in terms of the in terms of the black vote right now, like we were saying, you know, black folks are pragmatic voters. One, were not a monolith but we are also very pragmatic. When you look at the policies coming out of this administration, the White Supremacy<\/a> that is on the rise in this country, the hate that is on the rise in this country. We are looking at that and saying, wait. We cannot tolerate. We will not be in existence if donald trump is able to steal another four years in the white house. Its just not going to happen. So when you look at somebody that has unlimited funds, right, ive said this earlier. I said he could spend bloomberg could spend 2 billion and still be worth 59 billion. Right . So people are looking and saying if you can buy these media ads, if you can buy radio, if you can buy television, and you can convince people and play trump at his own game and play it better, then were saying maybe hes somebody that we need to be paying attention to, right . Because were looking at a catastrophe that we are living in right now. We are looking at all of our agencies having been gutted by this administration and the harm that it is doing to people of color, to undocumented folks, to black folks, so when you put those things in front of black voters, we are saying to ourselves. You know what . He may be the lesser of two evils, right . We may look at stopandfrisk and redlining and nobody is overlooking those things but at the end of the day, were saying trump is a lot worse than bloomberg could possibly be. Do you know what i am saying . So its a false choice that black people are always given. Thats right. Over simplification of what might be driving any voting group. Let me touch on that because everyone talks about the black vote. The black vote. And i think she is correct when she says the black vote black people are not a monolith. And one of the reasons biden had been doing well in all the polls is i had been asking all along, who is being polled . Ive never been polled. The black women in my book club have never been polled. No one in my familys ever been polled. So we had always been saying that measuring the black vote with how biden is doing is incorrect. Its the wrong thing to do. There are a variety of different black people, just as there are variety of different white people. You got your trump voters. Same thing with the black community. You know, we are dynamic. We are multifaceted. And i think its wrong to constantly talk about it from the perspective of the black vote. However, she is correct when she talks about black people are pragmatic voters. You saw it in 2016 with 94 of black women voting for hillary and i think 88 of black men voting for hillary why . Because we saw that threat from day one and we tried to warn america. No one listened. Right. Natasha, what the panel is saying here is this voting group, picky shoppers. Dont think that theyre already decided on one candidate or another. I agree. You know, the part that i do want to say that while black voters are practical voters, we are also, when it comes to race and racism, thats a very serious issue for us. And so and oftentimes, thats why i think when we are talking about bloomberg, yes, this idea that he could beat trump, thats one piece. But its also the devastating impact that the criminal Justice System<\/a> has had on us. The devastating impact that stopandfrisk has had on us. We cant minimize how that would impact how voters will show up to the polls. And i think when we are talking about even whats practical and pragmatic, i want to take us back to a time when there was a favorite candidate that was running, that was part of the clinton machine. And there was an africanamerican male that most people said it was not practical or pragmatic to vote for a black man. But because there was something that he gave that was beyond just getting the seat but giving a level of hope, we supported him. And i think that the same thing applies here. That is, one thing that, yes, we are certainly looking for a candidate that can beat trump. But we are also looking for a candidate that is actually going to help in the best interest of black america, really be able to advance our advance ourselves in our communities. That is a factor, as well. And i think thats a missed opportunity when we go with this this framework, this narrative of who did the black people like . At the end of the day, part of what has happened with bloomberg, and he has benefitted from the fact, that many of the black people, they have been seeing these commercials that are running every five seconds. He spent 300 million on commercials and theyre seeing commercials with him with obama. All these wonderful things. And there has not been a critical examination of his record. As that unfolds, i think youre going to see a drastic dropoff in support for bloomberg. Natosha brown, thank you so much. From the black Voters Matter Fund<\/a>. The headlines you may have missed including an update on the deadly coronavirus with the first reported Death Outside<\/a> of asia. Those topics and more with our panel. Thats why im partnering with cigna to remind you to go in for your annual checkup, and be open with your doctor about anything you feel physically and emotionally. But now cigna has a plan that can help everyone see stress differently. Just find a period of time to unwind. A location to destress. An activity to enjoy. Or the name of someone to talk to. To create a plan that works for you, visit cigna. Com mystressplan. Cigna. Together, all the way. Visit cigna. Com mystressplan. Applebees new irresistabowls now starting at 7. 99. Now thats eatin good in the neighborhood. Hello, i saw you move in, and i wanted to welcome you to the neighborhood with some homemade biscuits oh, thats so nice and a little tip, geico could help you save on homeowners insurance. Hmm cookies uhh, biscuits. Mmmm, is there a little nutmeg in there . Oh its my mums secret recipe. You can tell me. Its a secret. Is it cinnamon . Its my mums secret recipe. Call geico and see how easy saving on homeowners and condo insurance can be. Ill come back for the plate. Saving on homeowners and condo insurance can be. Wherever we want to go, we just have to start. Autosave your way there with chase. Chase. Make more of whats yours. Well, theres a new show that premieres sunday on msnbc. Its called whats eating america and it will follow chef Andrew Zimmern<\/a> as they travel the country exploring immigration through the lens of food. And heres a quick look for you. Food trucks are one of the cheapest entry points into the food business. Perfect for recent immigrants like mohammad earfan. Howd you start the truck . I work for six, seven months. Then i learning everything. I buy one and then i buy other one. I have six now. You have six trucks . Thats the american dream. Yes. Mohammad wheres my buddy . There you go. Good luck with everything. I think people forget that immigrants are the ones that dont give excuses. Theyre actually blessed with opportunity to belong to a new place. They dont want to take anything from anybody. They only want to be part of it. I asked him what was his secret. And do you know what he said . I worked hard. You can watch the Series Premieres<\/a> of whats eating america, thats sunday 9 00 p. M. Eastern on msnbc. Thats why i like Liberty Mutual<\/a>. They get that no two people are alike and customize your Car Insurance<\/a> so you only pay for what you need. Almost done. What do you think . I dont see it. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. When youyou spend lessfair, and get way more. So you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one. For small prices, you can build big dreams, spend less, get way more. Shop everything home at wayfair. Com no. Uh uh, no way. Come on. No. No. N. Ni ni, no no only discover has no annual fee on any card. If youre living with hiv, and ask your doctor about biktarvy. N. Ni ni, no no biktarvy is a complete, onepill, onceaday treatment used for hiv in certain adults. Its not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights hiv to help you get to and stay undetectable. Thats when the amount of virus is so low it cant be measured by a lab test. Research shows people who take hiv treatment every day and get to and stay undetectabe can no longer transmit hiv through sex. Serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. Rare, lifethreatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. Do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. 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Twins grandparents we want to put money aside for them, so. Change in plans. Alright, lets see what we can adjust. Wed be closer to the twins. Change in plans. Okay. Mom, are you painting again . You could sell these. Lemme guess, change in plans . At fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan. News about the 2020 election drove the headlines. Facebook changed its policy on paid political messages friday after Michael Bloomberg<\/a> exposed a loophole by promoting his campaign by popular instagram personalities followed by millions of younger people. The messages are now allowed through what they call branded conduct. I can pay you money as influencers and this doesnt count as a political ad. What do you think . I think its problematic. Everything that facebook pulls out is problematic. If you have the two of us or anybody else come out there that you know that you see talk about poll tickets and do those things that, is an ad. I dont understand why facebook, its such a struggle for them to get their policies together so that theyre not interfering in a negative way in our election cycle. They dont care, it money. At the end of the day, that is whats behind all of these refusals to do Fact Checking<\/a> with their ads. Its all about money for them. Its unfortunate because this is playing such a huge role in our democracy. Ten years ago social media, instagram, facebook, it didnt have the sort of power it has now. I always say if donald trump ran for president 10 years ago, 12 years ago, he would not have won. I think social media has really changed the landscape. I also want to point out what bloomberg is trying to do is smart in the sense where hes utilizing social media and some of these candidates need to get up on social media, tick tock, all of it. They need to do it. They need to do more of it. How does dc interface and get it right. What will happen next . What dont we know about it . Theres a new threat emerging for sanctuary cities as reported when we look at the l. A. Times on the front page report willing Law Enforcement<\/a> officials in the city are pushing back against new ice plans to deploy dags additional resources. When we look at nevada and look at the high latinoamerican voting bloc, what this means. I think that it means that this administration is doing anything that it can to terrorize the latinx community. We need to Pay Attention<\/a> to what this president is doing and the parameters needed to be put in place in states to protect this community under siege. We have an election and a consensus going on. For a long time the Republican Party<\/a> always stood for states rights. That was a hall mark conservative value was that the state had rights and the federal government should not intrude upon them. Here you have with this administration a complete opposite. Im going to go further and say this isnt just to terrorize the latino communities, its also for trump to score political points with his base bus cruelty is the point. The more he can show he is cruel against immigrants of color, also very important to point out, bass yecause you never see talk, its always the brown immigrants, its to make sure absolutely. About 500,000 of them right now. Having a good time illegally here from europe. No one bothers them. But trump has to always make sure he keeps his base on lock. Why . Because it isnt growing. And he knows that. So these kind of things, they excite his base and keep his base co lalesced around him. It helps the base and potentially affects the latino voters showing up. I think that its all about suppression and it is about cruelty and cruelty is the point and those are the things that voters keep in mind when they are going out right now in nevada and will be in South Carolina<\/a> on super tuesday, who the democratic nominee is going to be is not as important as what donald trump is doing at this very moment. Thats why the two of you will be watching the numbers when they come in. I really appreciate you showing you on a saturday night. That wraps it up for us this hour. Ill be back tomorrow at 2 p. M. Eastern. In the meantime follow me on twitter, instagram and facebook. Let me know, you have a good night. Good morning oh no, here comes the neighbor probably to brag about how amazing his Xfinity Customer Service<\/a> is. Im mike, im so busy. Good thing xfinity has twohour appointment windows. They have night and weekend appointments too. Hes here. Bill . Karolyn . Nope no, just a couple of rocks. Download the my account app to manage your appointments making todays Xfinity Customer Service<\/a> simple, easy, awesome. Ill pass. Tonight on all in. Id be able to do it if i wanted. I have the absolute right to do it. New alarms over the president s abuse of the justice department. Hopefully somebody is going to look at the other side. Tonight chuck rosenberg. Plus is there really such a","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia802805.us.archive.org\/1\/items\/MSNBCW_20200216_000000_Hardball_With_Chris_Matthews\/MSNBCW_20200216_000000_Hardball_With_Chris_Matthews.thumbs\/MSNBCW_20200216_000000_Hardball_With_Chris_Matthews_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240618T12:35:10+00:00"}