Repercussions as 2024 candidates and the white house respond to the recent Major Supreme Court decisions. We are moving forward with another pathway to debt relief. Reporter President Biden racing to find new ways to erase student loan debt, a decision that candidate donald trump praised in South Carolina saturday. They ruled against it, 100 against it, amazing. Reporter another controversial decision is stoking divisions over gay rights, the high court found that a colorado christian web designer has a free speech right to refuse to create gay wedding web sites. Its a real victory for religious liberty. Reporter it comes as trumps main rival, Florida Governor ron desantis is under fire for his campaigns new video posted On The Last Day of pride month. Attacking trump for his past support of the lgbtq community. The video then features a sequence showing desantis hard line drag shows, transgender policy, interspersed with images of shirtless men and photos of brad pitt in the movie troy. Transportation secretary pete buttigieg, the first openly gay cabinet member was asked to respond. Im going to leave aside the strangeness of trying to prove your manhood by putting up a video that splices images of you into oiled up shirtless body builders. Reporter then questioned how that benefits the public. Who are you trying to help, make better off. Reporter some of desantiss republican rivals pushing back. We should be talking about how do we embrace our differences. Reporter Log Cabin Republicans that represents lgbtq conservatives, calling it divisive and saying desantiss rhetoric has ventured into homophobic territory. An Official Tweeting in response to criticism, Identity Politics is poison. Thanks to Kelly Odonnell is political white house correspondent, and playbook author, eugene daniels, and robert gibbs, former White House Press secretary and Former Rnc Executive Committee member, jennifer horn. We saw reaction from both sides of this desantis ad. Im going to put up polling here, some of the latest nationwide polling on key lgbtq issues. The vast majority of supportive of gay marriage. Is this clearly tailored to a primary and then the general is trying to put the tooth paste back in the tube. Thats exactly right. This is what happens when you base your entire candidacy, which is what ron desantis is doing, on cultural politics, you can eventually go too far, and folks who would generally be in support, republicans who called it homophobic. Desantis is by all accounts kind of flailing up to this point. We have a lot of time to go. He is not where he thought he was going to be or where he wanted to be and when that happens, what we now know firsthand, people start to double down on things that got them to where they are, hoping they can stir up some more fervor, will that actually work in the primary, its very possible, in the general election, this country has moved further to the left. I guess closer to where the Democratic Party is, when you talked about samesex marriage, we talked about transprotecti those things. Going too far, its not hard to do that when it comes to some of these issues. Its clear to say this is trying to run a further right campaign from trump. He could go after trump on a mountain of issues, and yet he chose this, why. Whats the overall strategy when it comes to him taking on trump over this . You know what, i cant answer that question. It is so bizarre. We live in a time when even the majority of republicans embrace the idea of equal rights for lgbtq members of our society where, you know, marriage equality, was overwhelmingly supported by the entire country including republicans, and the idea running a conservative campaign, where conservatives are supposed to be about preserving rights and to run a campaign that talks about overriding rights or trying to limit the rights of just certain people in our community makes no sense, and ill tell you that that ad, that video that desantis ran and played on this, its not just ineffective. Its really genuinely dishing, the imagery and messaging behind this over maleness, this extreme masculinity, and relating that to, you know, somehow being the opposite of homosexuality. Its really disturbing. It undermines so much of what we are supposed to be as americans, and if i may very quickly, if ron desantis is trying to use that ad to make american voters, compare him favorably in some way to brad pitt, im afraid that he has failed quite badly. Robert, when it comes to Supreme Court rulings, we have Affirmative Action, student loans, lgbtq antidiscrimination. They were all wins for the right, but we know thanks to polling and the eroding trust f the court, how do you think the left will take these losses and which party ultimately benefits more . I think it benefits the Democratic Party and hurts the Republican Party. Look, the Supreme Court has now, both at the end of last term, and fully into this term, they have put their stamp on taking rights away from people, taking protections away from people after sort of 50 years of adding those protections for people throughout this country, and then you mentioned the way the court is taking into account the ethical challenges and Clarence Thomas and samuel alito had taking vacations by wealthy donors who happen to have business in front of court. I think the real challenge here for the republican side is to try to navigate a judiciary that is, again, been focused on taking rights away. I think this will also on the left and on the democratic side, get people excited. Most of the Court Campaigns have been run on the republican side to get Republican Voters excitedment i think when you look at whats been taken away, the Dobbs Decision is the big one. These cases at the end of this term are going to be used inside the elements of the Democratic Base to get them fired up, underscore the importance of what 2024 really is all about. Eugene, black voters are grappling with the Affirmative Action ruling. I want to play reaction from Louisiana Residents over the weekend. Reporter we will not go back. I will be dead in my grave before i be a slave again. Its going to be very difficult for you to get everybody in america to buy into a color blind society. I went to a Public School in New York City so its not like i went to a Private School that, you know, maybe my application would have looked, you know, like that, or i didnt have parents that went to college, you know what i mean, like legacy, i didnt have any of that. So, you know, it definitely breaks my heart to see that thats happening. Reporter when you look at the polls, unlike abortion and student loan forgiveness, Affirmative Action splits voters down the middle. Do you think the decision from the conservative majority will hurt republicans at the ballot box . If democrats do what they should be doing, and what they say they want to do, which is make it an issue, right, the base of the Democratic Party is older black voters, its not the left. Its not young voters. Its actually older black voters, and specifically older black women. Those are some that we saw speaking just now, and so if this issue is if democrats want to make this an issue like they were able to do it with dobbs in the midterm, they can do that. There is a place for that. Like the woman said, we dont live in a color blind society. Black people know that. White people know that. Everybody knows that. Most people know that in this country and believe that, whether or not we should do anything to fix the historys ills. That is what Affirmative Action is trying to get at. The Supreme Court is saying that essentially race, especially in Higher Education is a thing of the past, also something we know isnt true, so democrats can take all of that and head into 2024, firing up their base. Anger and fear, fear of rights being taken away are both motivating factors for voters, but somebody has to point the voters in the right direction. Tell them who to be angry at and tell them what you would do if you were to give them more power, if democrats had more power in washington, d. C. They had a lot of things to do in that vein, but they seemed to be a part of that moving further toward that and making the Supreme Court more of an enemy for the Democratic Base. Jennifer, some political pundits say this race is either about trump or not trump. Im not sure if you saw from the rally in picking, South Carolina, over the weekend, i mean this is a very friendly district for him. He had a huge raucous crowd, they booed Lindsey Graham on and off the stage, calling him a traitor. Were you struck by the reception here at this rally. What does it say about the larger state of the Republican Party right now, and really the demanding lead that trump has. Well, i did see some of the coverage of the rally, and none of it surprised me, this is exactly who the Republican Party is today x if you look at the numbers, donald trump, despite being twice impeached and twice convicted, all of the other problems he has, he is holding over 60 of the republican primaries still as of just a couple of days ago. This is who the Republican Party has become. They are fighting to take rights away from people, to limit the rights of others, to, you know, to attack and assault the minority, you know, with policy, the minority in our country. This is who they have become. And donald trump gives them voice for that. And thats the conflict, by the way, that you see between trump and desantis. Desantis is trying so hard to outtrump trump. He just cant do it. Theres no way to get past that. The only good thing that i see in this gop primary right now is that at least not that either one of them, unfortunately, really has a chance to win anything, but at least governor christie and will hurd are giving voice to some of those principles or pushing back, i guess, against the ugliness that the trump and Desantis Campaign are running on. Robert, i got less than a minute with you. But President Biden will be heading to South Carolina soon as well. Do you think it can be seen that hes sort of had a rough week after all of that student loan debt, Affirmative Action, the lgbtq case, those are considered loss for the left, do you think he can use that to galvanize people . Hell use it to galvanize. I dont think any of the losses at the Supreme Court were unexpected. I mean, theres good reporting on just how much time the white house spent over the last few months after hearing lots of those arguments getting ready for what happened at the end of the term, but as everyone on the panel has said, now its time to take those words and those actions of the Supreme Court and get people fired up. I have no doubt South Carolina holds a special place for joe biden, resurrected his entire campaign. Eugene daniel, robert gibbs, thank you all. What mike pence is and isnt saying about the post election call he made to the governor of arizona. The intense man hunt underway after a mass shooting at a block party left two dead and dozens injured. And the Largest Military assault in decades, details on the air attack launched by israel. Were back in 60 seconds. Tack ly israel were back in 60 seconds when you really need to sleep. You reach for the really good stuff. Zzzquil ultra helps you sleep better and longer when you need it most. Its nonhabit forming and powered by the makers of nyquil. Up at 2 00am again . Tonight, Try Pure Zzzs all night. Unlike other sleep aids, our extended release melatonin helps you sleep longer. And longer. Zzzquil pure zzzs all night. Fall asleep. Stay asleep. vo this is sadie, shes on verizon. And shes got the new myplan, so she gets exactly what she wants and only pays for what she needs. She picks her perks and saves on every one. Make your move to myplan. Act now and get it for 25 when you bring your phones. Its your verizon. Mike pence has responded to reporting from the Washington Post that just after the 2020 president ial election, donald trump attempted to pressure Arizona Governor doug ducey Into Overturning state Election Results. The former Vice President was pressed on whether he personally influenced ducey at the biddings of his then boss and 2024 rival. I think the record reflects i did check in with not only governor ducey but governors in states that were going through the Legal Process of reviewing their Election Results. But there was no pressure involved. You are clearly saying you did not pressure the governor, but were you being pressured by mr. Trump to get those to influence doug ducey, and did you talk about this with the Special Counsel . No, i dont remember any pressure. Lets discuss this with lisa rubin, and msnbc legal analyst. Good to see you. Lets talk about a couple of things there in that piece. Pence said his call to ducey was to get an update. He passed information to trump that confirmed the Election Results. Overall, how significant is this interview and our understanding of what went down . I dont know that its that significant in terms of what went down. I do think its significant in terms of pence trying to do two things, even more politically than legally, trying to placate people who are still sympathetic to trump. He asked me to make some phone calls, and i did what he asked and reported back to them, but hes trying to preempt any accusation of wrong doing by him by saying things like i think the record reflects i made these calls. Former Vice President pence may beware, for example, of phone records that would show he reached out to people like Brad Raffensperger or brian kemp. Like a call log, we dont have an Audio Recording that we know of . Farce we know, there is no Audio Recording. The reporting over the weekend indicated that at least on governor duceys side, there was no Audio Recording of the phone call with trump. That doesnt mean necessarily that there is no recording with pence. On the other hand, i think mike pence is smart enough to know that the evidence at jack smiths disposal includes things like phone call records, right, Cell Phone Data or even text data that would indicate a reach out from one side to the other. Event if you cant see the content, in some cases, the frequency of contact, how long those phone calls lasted may be indicators of an effort by the white house to both collect and provide information to governors like then governor ducey. Pence didnt answer the question of whether he had spoken with Special Counsel jack smith about this. The Washington Post writes its unclear if ducey has been contacted by smiths office. They report that investigators in the Special Counsels office have asked witnesses about trumps calls with governors, including the one to ducey, according to two people familiar with the matter. How important would it be for the Special Counsels office to hear from pence and ducey directly on this . I think it would be important for a couple of reasons. One thing that i found particularly significant about pences interview yesterday is his telling cbs that he reported back to the president that there were no fraud in the states whose governors he reached out to. Thats an indicator of trumps intent. If trump knew at the time that pence was making those calls that the governors werent finding fraud and nonetheless, he reached out to a variety of actors in those states to continue to pressure them, to either send forth alternate electors or do other things to put in question the legitimacy of the results of the election, thats particularly significant, and similarly, i think it would be significant for investigators to hear from then governor ducey about the contents of the call. Based on the Washington Posts reporting over the weekend, it sounds like that call was a direct Dress Rehearsal for the call with Brad Raffensperger who said i just need you to find me 11,780 votes, sounds like what he said t