But Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi has claimed hes descendant from the house of the prophet himself, from mohammed. So he has claimed a theologic theological that very few of his predecessors in this organization have been able to do. So his death is not just symbolic. Its actually going to be a hammer blow to this organization. By the way, in terms of the command and control, look, there was very good reporting done by the Guardian Newspaper in about 2015 that baghdadi had been injured, very severely injured actually, in a u. S. Coalition bombing sortee. This was not an attempt on baghdadi. This was not an attempt to kill him, but it was an accident. They got him but they werent even trying to get him. He was in traction. He hurt his arm, his back. He was out of commission for a while but was still very much the going concern for this organization. Hes still the commander of isis. So i dont quite agree that hes not somebody who is not in direct control of the organization. You know, he does. He commands a lot of authority from the rank and file not just by the way in syria and iraq. But, remember, isis has fanned out throughout the world and, you know, the thing that i would emphasize to your viewers is the deadliest attack, the deadliest foreign jihadist attack that isis planned and perpetrated was executed after the collapse of the socalled caliphate, after t they lost their, you know, putdtiput putativestate building enterprise. That was the sri lanka attack. So isis still very much has a loyal following not just in syria and iraq but around the world. Baghdadi was a lightning rod. He was somebody able to galvanize, to convince people that this was still a struggle worth joining. His death, i think, is actually a little more significant than just, well, you know, theyll find somebody to fill this role. No. They will, and if theyre smart as an organization, theyve already lined up several people to fill his shoes, but this is somebody who claimed a kind of theological and islamist pedigree that is going to be hard to replicate. So, you know, in terms of his demise, in a way, i think its worse for the organization than the demise of zarqawi, who was the founder of isis. Michael, thank you so much. Again, that was Michael Weiss of the daily beast, coauthor of isis inside the army of terror. And, again, breaking news at this hour. The white house has announced that President Trump will make a major announcement at 9 00 a. M. On sunday, and nbc news has now confirmed the likely topic of those remarks, a u. S. Military operation that targeted isis leader Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi. Id like to bring back courtney ku kube, our pentagon correspondent. Courtney, what can you tell us about the details of this special mission . So we dont know a lot of details of the mission yet. We know that in recent days, some u. S. Intelligence gathered what they called actionable intelligence about where baghdadi may be. They spent some time confirming that intelligence and then the mission was launched late saturday night, early sunday morning local time here in iraq, into a place in northwestern syria. Its one of the areas that is still inhabited by isis. Its not necessarily held by them as, like, a caliphate or as a land that they own and they govern, but there is still an isis presence in that area. So we know that there were a number of u. S. Special Operations Forces. We think these are the most elite of the task force. They went in on helicopters. There was also fixedwing jets and some u. S. Drones that came in across the border from turkey into syria and launched this raid. We know that there was some fire from the air to the ground, but we dont have a really good sense of exactly whether the mission was to target a convoy, whether baghdadi was in some static area when they went after him. We do know there was fire from the air. At least one or more helicopters landed, and they were able to gather some intelligence. Now, the u. S. Officials i spoke with said that the intelligence included some sort of forensic evidence on the target, Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi. This is very similar to what we saw in the bin laden raid, youll recall. They took photos of bin laden to confirm that it was, in fact, him who they had targeted. We dont know what other possible intelligence they may have gathered at the site. It all happened very quickly according to the officials i spoke with, and there are no reports of any u. S. Casualties in the mission. So, courtney, baghdadi has reportedly been in hiding for the last five years. Any details on how he may have been located there near the Turkish Border in syria . Reporter no. And, you know, its funny. Its a question that we ask probably well, frequently of u. S. Military officials. Do you know where baghdadi is . There have been rumors for some time. Of course there was a time where we know he was in iraq. He gave his one of his most famous speeches at a mosque not far from where im standing right now in mosul, iraq. But hes believed to have been hiding and moving throughout parts of northwestern and at times even Eastern Syria throughout the time of the u. S. And the Coalition Efforts in syria. Of course they were constantly putting pressure on him and on the leadership. So when youre the leader of a Terror Organization like isis, youre going to have to constantly be on the move so that you arent captured. But we dont know much about exactly what it was they found. Its not an area where theres a u. S. Military presence, so Something Like this would tend to be overheard with an intercept or whatnot or some kind of human intelligence they gather on the ground that theyre then able to exploit and determine whether its Strong Enough evidence that they go in for a raid like this. Courtney, is there any information about other members of isis who may have been captured or killed in this raid . Reporter there isnt. We know that he was if in fact this turns out to be baghdadi, which it seems like theres a pretty high confidence according to officials im speaking with. No one wants to say jackpot quite yet, but we know there were others who were killed in this raid, who were with baghdadi, but we dont have good fidelity yet on exactly how many were killed or who they may have been. In a case like this, he may have actually been traveling with family, you know. We just dont know. We know very little about how hes been living these past few years when hes been on the run. There was a isis put out a video earlier this year. I think it was april, that appeared to be him. You know, it was a question if it was him or not. That was really the first sign we had he might be alive, and any kind of indication of his role in the organization to right now. In this case, he was praising this attacks that had recently occurred in sri lanka. So we know very little about it. Its similar again to bin laden. Youll remember that after the bin laden raid, the navy s. E. A. L. S were able to pull a number of videotapes and his diaries and whatnot, and we learned so much about how he had been living, and it was fascinating to learn, especially for people who really followed this, you know, the ins and outs and minutia of this on a day to day basis. It was fascinating to see him living in a compound in pakistan as an old man. So thats one of the things that im really going to be looking for in the coming days is were they able to figure out anything about how baghdadi had been living in recent days and weeks, who he was traveling with, and exactly what his role was in the isis organization. Was he still running day to day opps, or was he for all intents and europurpose just a figurehe but not actually involved in the ground day to day. Courtney, thank you. Id like to bring in now someone from the counsel on foreign relations. Gayle, what is your reaction to this possible death of Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi. Its a very symbolic moment and so much sacrifice has gone into making this possible if this is what has actually happened tonight. I spent so much time with young people who have lost friends, young people from syria who have lost friends, lost loved ones in the fight against the Islamic State since 2014. From kobani through all these towns that dont sound like very much to a lot of americans, but have meant so much both to u. S. Forces and to the syrians who have really given their lives to back the Islamic State into a corner where they no longer held physical territory but, instead, were capturing the imagination of those who followed them. And as somebody who spent so many years talking to young women who have given so many of their years to fighting isis, if it turns out to be true, it is really a significant moment. But i think it is not the end to the fight against the idea that the Islamic State represents. What impact will al baghdadis possible death have on the Islamic State . Its so interesting. In the spring, i was in holcamp where so many folks whose husbands who belong to the Islamic State, so many women from around the world who belong to the Islamic State themselves were there. What is fascinating is that a lot of moms talked to me about the baghdadi video that came out in april. And they talked to me about how their children, at the very end of the u. S. Backed fight against the Islamic State, their children had starved. Their children had gone hungry. Older people had starved actually to death while baghdadi got fat is what they were talking to me about. That, you know, this guy got fat and makes a video while our children dont have juice, dont have food, dont have enough to eat. And they were talking to me about whether they thought he was the right person to have led this physical caliphate. And i do think that if it turns out that he is gone, it is another blow to the idea of the Islamic State and what he represented. But it is not the end. Now, when President Trump tweeted yesterday evening that something very big has just happened, did you have any indication that the news was about this possible raid or the raid that took place . Many folks have talked for months, as richard was talking about, where is baghdadi, what is he up to, and certainly i think all those of us who have spent days and hours and particularly minutes in the last couple of weeks trying to figure out what is happening on the ground in syria and talking to people all across the region, i dont think it was a huge shock. But i do think it is a very symbolic moment because he represented to a lot of people this idea of the caliphate that brought people from all around the world. I mean when i was in holcamp in may, it was like the United Nations of isis. So many people. You had people from seychelles, people from egypt, young women from germany who talked to you about why they had found this idea so attractive. It all went back to this moment in 2014 when al baghdadi from mosul really made this call for them to come. So i dont think the symbolism of this moment can be underestimated. But i just caution folks against thinking that this is the end because its much easier to take physical territory back. Its much easier to end a terrorists life than it is to end the idea of what the Islamic State represented to those who may follow it. What does this news say about trumps approach to isis . I think its you know, this is a continuation of policy thats gone on for years. I mean one thing i would say is first of all, this is the Second Administration that felt it was elected to end wars in the middle east rather than begin them. And really an administration that had pushed very hard for the end to the caliphate and had given folks the resources. But having spent a lot of time with the people, especially the young women who were the ground force in the fight against the Islamic State, i just want to take a moment to remember the more than 10,000 young people, women and men from the syrian side, along with the fewer than five, but still every gold star family is a tragedy in the United States, american whos were killed in the line of battle, fighting the Islamic State. This is a real victory that was five years in the making. If you think that this started in the summer of 2014, in the fight against kobani, a town nobody had heard of before the fact that this group of this band of kurds that people didnt really know who they were, then joined by folks from the Free Syrian Army and folks from the iraqi, kurdish side who came together to fight the Islamic State on the ground while the americans came from the air. This was the first time they handed a real defeat to the Islamic State. So this is a moment that is five years, a halfdecade in the making. Gayle, thank you. That was gayle lemmon of the council on foreign relations. Id like to go now to katie bow williams, reporter from defense one. Katie, what are you hearing about this latest news . Yeah, i started getting indications that this operation was under way and that baghdadi was the target certainly earlier this evening. What were hearing right now is that this was originally intended to be a capture mission, but that baghdadi actually detonated a suicide belt that he was wearing at the time in order to actually prevent his own capture. And so i think, you know, right now the sense that im getting is that the official word of confirmation has not yet come down, but theres certainly a high degree of confidence within the pentagon that this was, in fact, baghdadi. And if that is true that baghdadi detonated his own suicide vest, what does that mean symbolically that he would not allow himself to be captured and killed . Actually, thats exactly the point. You know, it has more to do with the sense of like, are you going to be able to count yourself as having been martyred for the cause, or were you killed by the enemy, in this case the United States . So its actually not uncommon for senior isis leaders to be sort of constantly wearing a suicide vest and to try to take their own lives as a way of preventing capture. Its a huge its a rhetorical and propaganda value for isis to be able to say, no, we didnt baghdadi was not captured or killed by the american forces. He martyred himself for the cause. So i think one of the really interesting things to watch in the coming days is going to be how isis responds to this as an organization. They have shown obviously a great deal of resiliency as an organization losing Senior Leaders before this. Baghdadi was obviously not the first head of isis. They had already lost a previous leader of the group to a u. S. Strike, and they were able to reconstitute, reform, and obviously survive as a powerful force after that. So i think how isis itself plays this strike and who sort of steps up to take the mantle is going to be really interesting to watch. We dont really know who is next in line here at this point. But we do know that there are still tens of thousands of isis fighters spread across iraq and syria who have sort of gone underground since the Trump Administration and the Coalition Officially announced the defeat of the caliphate itself. So who steps up here, i think, is going to be a really interesting thing to watch in the coming days. Now, al baghdadi obviously a highvalue target for the u. S. , a 25 million bounty on his head. How will the organization be affected with new leadership here on out . I mean thats sort of the big question is because we dont know who this is going to be, its a little bit tougher of a question to answer. Isis now at this point is unlike in sort of 2014 when they were holding territory, they were in some ways mimicking governance. They were running a sort of statelet. Now they are an underground insurgency. If you talk to pentagon officials, intelligence officials, they are all warning that isis is still a powerful force, that its fighters still exist within iraq and syria, sort of operating in theyre sort of seeded throughout the population operating underground, but that doesnt make them not a threat or not dangerous. And so i think to sort of understand whats going to happen next and the effects that baghdadis death is going to have on this organization, its hard to tell precisely because its not a you know, sort of a National Level organization in the way that it was in 2014. All right. Katie, thank you so much. That was katie bo williams, reporter at defense one. We will bring you much more news on this breaking news story in a bit. Colon cancer. Im not worried. It doesnt run in my family. I can do it next year. No rush. Cologuard is the noninvasive option that finds 92 of colon cancers. You just get the kit in the mail, go to the bathroom, collect your sample, then ship it to the lab. Theres no excuse for waiting. Get screened. Ask your doctor if cologuard is right for you. Covered by medicare and most major insurers. Great riches will find you when Liberty Mutual customizes your Car Insurance, so you only pay for what you need. Wow. Thanks, zoltar. How can i ever repay you . Maybe you could free zoltar . Thanks, lady. Taxi only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Hendless shrimp even hotter . S you bring back Nashville Hot oh yeah its back. Crispy shrimp. Tossed in a spicy rub. And drizzled with sweet amber honey. More shrimp more ways. Endless shrimps just fifteen ninety nine. Hurry in. I wanted more thats why ive got the power of 1 2 3 medicines with trelegy. The only fdaapproved 3in1 copd treatment. Trelegy. The power of 123. Trelegy 123 trelegy. With trelegy and the power of 1 2 3, im breathing better. Trelegy works 3 ways to open airways, keep them open and reduce inflammation