Injury on whether or not to indict a Police Officer. They have new footage of wilson entering the Police Station after the haug shooting. The post dispatch obtained record gds of police calls and reports that the fatal encounter happened in less than 90 seconds. Also overnight, Ferguson Police chief tom jackson told our st. Louis affiliate that if the grand jury does not return an indictment, officer wilson may immediately return to duty. But he says wilson could be fired if there is an indictment. A decision could come in day now. Joining us now from ferguson, missouri, msnbcs trumain lee. Not only the audio and video, but specifically what the chief said about the possibility of him returning to work . Reporter good morning. Right now its a cold, quite morning in ferguson, as everyone is still on pins and needles waiting for word of the grand jurys decision. The audio and video recording dont add much. You get a chance to watch him and see him moving in and out for the very first time in live motion. The idea that Darren Wilson if not indicted could return to the streets will certainly cause controversy. The legal democrat will determine if the prosecution could move forward. But in the community, hes guilty. Im sure hell be guilty once the jury makes the decision. Hell be guilty after that. The idea that hell return to the the community is fuel on the the community thats been on fire for more than 90 days so far. Trimaine, thats really useful. Thank you for helping us with that. Theres guilt by a legal system, but theres also a question of perception and emotion within the context of community. Trymaine lee in ferguson, missouri, thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. Now to breaking space news. On wednesday a small spacecraft landed on a comet. The first time scientists accomplished such a fete. The European Space agency launched the craft philae more than 10 years ago. It traveled more than 4 trillion miles. The target, a block of ancient ice and cosmic debris 2. 5 miles long and speeding through space at 75,000 miles an hour. On wednesday it landed, and its already sent back photographs of the comets surface. Thats where technology is today. A spacecraft is riding a comet 317 million miles from earth. It took ten years to get there, and its able to send pictures that reach earth in less than half an hour. The scene at the esa on wednesday was one of jubilation. So its a real accomplishment. But it leads us to ask, well, why . Why do this . Why spend ten years and almost 2 billion sending a little box hundreds of millions of miles into space to see what a comet looks like up close . To borrow a phrase from fred whipple, its just a big dirty snowball, isnt it . One, its just kind of freaking cool, and two, scientists are hoping to learn more about the beginnings of life. Comets are thought to this be the oldest bodies of the solar system. Leftover from when it was formed 4. 5 billion years ago. A time when huge masses of gases and rocks were hurdling into each other all the time and you know, making the planets. A major question from the time is how did earth get its water . Water is not only essential to life now, but it is also likely the oceans is where life first began on this planet. Somed comets, the giant speeding snowballs that slammed into the earth and became the ocean. Science is searches for answers. Some hints, at least, to some of the enormous questions from the surface. And one of them is how did life on earth begin . The beginning of life is one of the biggest Unanswered Questions in science. Another one, how did the universe begin . What sparked the big gang . Beginnings, or put another away, creation with a capital c. Science is one way of seeking answers in what seems like chaos. Religion is another. Consider the opening texts of the book of genesis. In the beginnings the god created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty. Darkness was over the surface and god said, let the water you should the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear, and so it was. God called the dry ground land and the gathered waters he calleded the seas and god said let there be lights in the vaults of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred signs and days and years. He also made the stars. God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, and god saw that it was good. Science and religion in this case, christianity, may have very different creation stories, but that doesnt mean theyre mutually exclusive. Take it from this guy. The peoples pope himself made headlines when he said, quote, the beginning of the world is not the work of chaos that owes its origins to something else, but drives from a supreme principle that creates out of love. The big bang that is today considered to be the origin of the world does not contradict the creative intervention of god. On the contrary, it requires it. The pope spoke about evolution. Evolution in nature is not opposed to the notion of creation. Because evolution presupposes the creation of beings that evolve. This is not a radical departure from the catholic church. Previous popes have said the scientist theory of evolution does not necessarily contradict the churchs seeking on creation. But the vatican has a pretty bad wrap when it comes to science. You condemn the scientific findings of one dude named galileo and you cant live it down for 400 years. Is there an epic struggle between religion and science . Must one vanquish the other . Or can the coexist . Or perhaps as the pope suggested, support and enrich each other. Joining us now, bill nye. Oh, i was like, wait a minute. I dont think thats the title. Yolanda, associate professor at princeton theological theater. And michael pepper, theology professor and contributor for common wield magazine. Maybe ill start with you, have been flubed the title. Because theres a creation very sus creationism discourse that sets up this dichotomy. Well, you tell me. One of the great discoveries in evolution. When we have organizations like msnbc or the catholic church, its top down. Its 61. Its top down. Theres somebody at the top. And he or she has people working for him or her. Thats not how nature works apparently. Instead its bottom up. This is to say you have a bunch of designs. You see which make it to the next generation. And thats where we all are today. So its a different way of organizing things. So you could argue there that these things are separate and have nothing to do with each other. But the problem, everybody, comes when up religious beliefs that you want to tell other people how to live and so on, and then you get to disagreements in the middle east, in ireland, in south america, people disagree about these details. So i love the idea that creation in the context of evolution is somehow socialist and that creation in the context of religion is some thousand aauthoritarian. Thats just my Political Science behind. You couldnt have this coffee mug without an organization. Without a corporation. I mean, you cant just have just go ahead and start messing around. There has to be top down some place. This is how humans get things done in large groups. Theres tribes and leaders of tribes. Thats all good. But in the big, big picture, evolution is a bottomup process. As much as i love hearing you read the bible, it brings joy to my heart, i was thinking theres a small vocal minority of people that are troo iing to say theres no space for there to be distinctful faith and science. I think the vast majority of us love science. And the bible, we understand it not to be a science textbook, right . That it isnt trying to tell us, you know, the origins of the universe. Its trying to point to something. And as i was thinking about this comet, right . And what it reveals and the awe and the mystery, thats something that science and religion share. So instead of creating this dichotomy, i think its just a very small, unfortunately vocal minority thats trying to say, wow, how can we talk about these two contradictory things . Weve always talked about them. Okay, so michael, i want to push on this a little bit. Precisely what yolanda laid out here. The sense of awe seems to be animating forces of most world religious practices and of the scientific method. But the challenge it seems to me, thats a quite important one, is what counts as evidence . And so that in the context of faith, there are faithbased claims that do not require empirical evidence to hold them. But in the con terks of science, there must be empirical evidence in order to falsify or confirm a claim. Thats right. In a christian tradition we would say there are multiple valid ways of knowing. And scientists links to one valid way of knowing. And that serves as a benefit to society. In fact a christian tradition, we are not antiscientists. I know you said galileo. And thats an easy one. But george is the founder of the big bang theory. Hes a belgian priest. He just recently receiveded a medal. A vatican astronomer, holder of themeteorite. If thats in part because of the organization that institutes the catholic church. And the the relatively more democratic with a d version of particularly american conservative religious thought. Sat on a stage. That seems not incompatible. And then it does begin to feel like that. In since we evaluate claims. So if someone claims the earth is 6,000 years old, there is nothing to support that idea. And so my concern, as i may have mentioned many times is young people. You dont want to raise a generation of science students that doesnt understand the idea of evolution. Natural selection, sexual selection, analogy, all these fabulous things. So thats where it crosses the line for me. They have a big curriculum. They have dvds. They have quizzeses that look just like science. And so, its this abandoning your Critical Thinking skills. Abandoning your ability to reason that is trouble. So when we come back, i want to talk about this question of young people and how we balance skepticism that science gives us and the value of hope and faith that comes to us from religious practice together into one soup generation of post millennials. I just love it. Sheila you see this ball control . 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But anyone can help a foster child. In his essay message in the stars. The minister conducts a thought experiment. What if god decided to prove dramatically irrefutably that god does exist . By arranging the stars to read god is. He imagines the hope and terror, regret and joy that such a message would bring. He fantasizes that god would rewrite the message in all the the different languages in the world so on my given night you might go up and see it in french or arabic, god is. And then he imagines this, i would have a child look up at the sky some night, just a plain, garden variety child with perhaps a wad of bubble gum in his cheek. I would have the child turn to his father or maybe with the crazy courage of childhood, i would have him turn to god, and the words i would have him speak would make the angels gasp. So what if god exists, he would say . Is what difference does that make . The essay is a reminder to me in the struggle between religion and science, most people are not seeking the message of the stars, but instead want to understand what difference those answers make. What does it all mean, and how are we supposed to live with one another . So thats part of what i wanted to come to you on. Lets talk about just the environment to begin with. Sure. So if i am to believe that god is the creator, does that change my relationship of either dominion or stew wardship towards the earth . In other words, what difference does that make . If we are to move towards Climate Action and social injustice, care for the poor, religious communities are going to have to be involved, and not just progressive ones, but conservative ones as well. Religious groups have shown, starting with especially the Civil Rights Movement in the United States that coherent narratives and cohesive communities that religious communities can bring about are essential to any kind of social change in the United States. I think thats starting to happen. And not to be too catholic here. We want to say the pope is writing on ecology. This is unbelievable. Really. If you think of what you may imagine a pope to do. Hes reading, what is the problem presented to humanity in my time, my few years here as pope. And the problem is one of environmental degradation. Hes trying to deal with it. And that feels like part of the residual value that remains, no matter what ones claims, empirical claims about the capacity to organize activity towards justice or towards inequality. We also know religion has a long history of promoting and creating inequality. So part of what im thinking is, do we want to give our children a god to strive towards in order to do good, or eliminate a god divisive on identity . Its the question of do we have to make a choice, right . So do we want to affirm that its called faith for a reason. Its not certainty. Its faith. You believe. You hope. You wish. You pray. But do we also want space for proof and empirical evidence . We want to give our children both. We want them to have the mystery, the wonder, the the awe. The awesomeness tos a spire to something something beyond and above them, even as we want them grounded in the the tools to do that. I want children to aspire to be astronauts, right . Wouldnt that be a cool job . Wouldnt it be great to be bill nye the science guy . I want them to have a sense of calling and vocation, that god put me on the earth to do something and that im important and unique and i can be a steward of this earth. Instead of creating contradictory spaces, i want to create a space to allow both to be a part of the conversation. And bill, in your book, you really think of children as being the sort of whats at stake . We were looking at this politico story from march that is talking about the vouchers going to private school ls. These vouchers go to schools where they nurture disdain of the secular world. Distrust of momentous discoveries and hostilities towards mainstream scientists. They distort the basic facts, teaching that theory is highly speculative because they havent been elevated. People confuse the words laws and theorys. Its bombshell time. So for me as a scientist, it sounds like what youre trying to do is take your religion and get it to fit in science and understanding. Im not the first guy to point this out. Altruism, community, tribalism exists in species way less complicated than humans. The argument you have to are religion in order to be philanthropic, in order to care about your fellow species, person. That is reasonable, but i dont think its backed by a scientific observation. So we have disagreement here. We will not mix church and state. Right . So i am all for engages religious communities. Clearly people get so much support e out of their communities and stuff. But the claim that we have an issue with is that because religion provides this h community, therefore we have to have religion, furthermore, we have to have my specific religion. And then to get to these school people. The vouchers are just a way to as scientists i just wonder. Is there really no evidence that theres a transformative capacity for religious belief in the human life that cant be accounted for purely through the kind of empirical evidence we typically think of. You tell me. So heres the bat flying around at night. Doesnt get enough to eat. Comes back to the roost. The other bats regurgitate with their mosquito barf and the other lives through the night. Why do they do that . The pope is given them an authorization. Or because its deep within them and if they dont, they eliminate too many genes. You have to stay afterwards. Its a huge question. Thank you to bill nye and michael pepper. Everyone, be sure to check out bills new book, undeniable evolution and the science of creation. Somehow were going to make the transition from god and science to the photo of Kim Kardashian that broke the internet. Stay with us. Its going to be quite a show. Woman everyone in the nicu all the nurses wanted to watch him when he was there 118 days. Everything that you thought was important to you changes in light of having a child that needs you every moment. I wouldnt trade him for the world. Who matters most to you says the most about you. At massmutual were owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. 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