The dutch people today paid tribute to their own. Six days of confusion and indignity ended at last. A solemn procession across the dutch countryside. The sight of 40 hearses tell one painful fraction of this story. But the dignified science of those who stood and watched tells another. I couldnt say goodbye. Theyll be in my heart forever. Two more ukrainian fighter jets were shot down. Many wondered if whoever shot down the malaysian plane would lay low. Today they got their answer. This airport is open. Theres no reason whatsoever for the mistake in faa decision. Asian authorities have now lifted their ban on the flights to tel aviv. I think security is overreacting. I feel very secure. One plane did land. Secretary of state john kerrys jet. Through the dawn of a 16th day, the shelling shows no sign of ending. And hamas sees no ceasefire unless the israeli blockade is lifted. We need to find a way forward, and its not violence. Good morning. It is a busy thursday, july 24th. Welcome to morning joe. With us on set we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle, senior Political Editor and White House Correspondent for the Huffington Post sam stein. John heilemann and thomas roberts. Youre here and not running in. I know. Thank you for that. We gave you some time. Also with us from washington, senior fellow and former deputy of secretary defense ian brzezinski. I know him. So much news to get to. Well begin with a situation in the middle east. Late last night the faa lifted a ban on american flights into tel aviv. Critics of the administration accuse president obama and the faa of enforcing the ban as an economic boycott. But former new york mayor Michael Bloomberg who flew in a show of solidarity to israel was
outraged when asked if there were ulterior motives. If youre not safe here, i dont know where you feel safe. I think the administration is reacting in political reaction. Political reasons for that . Of course. Why would you think that . Why would you accuse your agencies by asking the question youre implying that our government does things for political reasons. Maybe every once in awhile they do, but its your job to prove it. I personally take it as an offense. Okay. Lets try and understand whats going on here. I believe the former mayor who you know i love went there critical of the restrictions. Correct . Are we all in agreement of that . Some fear with Benjamin Netanyahu and is critical of the restrictions. So whats with being so
difficult on the questions . Why go . Well, i think he was making a straightforward point. Whats his point . He thinks that the restrictions are mistaken but not driven by a political motive by the administration or faa to try to punish israel for what its doing. But whyd you laugh when you watched that . I didnt laugh. Its always interesting to see two great men in a state of haggling on television. Whats the haggling over, sam . I have no idea. I think they were in agreement there. What happened . It was a weird interview. I dont know what to say. He had a long flight. Didnt feel safe. Its an 11hour flight. I think he accused wolf to drum up a controversy when hes asking a question to a politician who has direct ties to washington, d. C. Whats this about . Exactly. And then the blames wolf for asking him a question. I saw that live yesterday. I was amazed. John kerry claims headway is being made in a ceasefire. But leaders are casting doubt on a potential breakthrough. One member says it will take at least 15 days to neutrali izize tunnels in the country. Until then the bloodshed will continue. 724 palestinians dead. 29 since midnight alone. This morning a school in gaza was hit by incoming israeli fire. A boy lo man lost his sons, mother, sister in a fire over the weekend. I found my mother was thrown in the wreckage of the flat. And i found the leg of my son coming out of the wreckage. So i realized at this moment that nobodys going to survive from inside. The allout assault on both side continues so much so that an astronaut tweeted this photo taken from the International Space station of explosions and rocket fire. Lets go now to gaza. Ayman mohyeldin is standing by. We saw part of our interview with that grieving father and husband. Bring us to the latest so far today. Reporter good morning. As it has been, every morning you wake up and you get a sense of what happens overnight. Most of the time its some disturbing news as results of the overnight air strikes. This morning has been no different. Todays concentration was in the southern part of gaza. We are getting preliminary reports from eyewitnesses and residents in the area in the southern part of gaza that overnight at least several
israeli shells landed in a neighborhood killing up to 40 people. Again, were still getting the initial reports. According to eyewitnesses on the ground, palestinian eyewitnesses on the ground. Overnight there was intense shelling. A group of families huddled together to try to make their way out of that scene of where the shelling was taking place. According to some of those who survived, they, too, were under attack. We dont know what the motivations were or whether or not there was gunfire being returned back. But horrific descriptions were getting about what may have happened overnight. The death toll you mentioned now well above 700 on the palestinian side and at least 35 israelis killed. The humanitarian situation continues to worsen. I know it sounds like were saying it over and over again. But the u. N. Is making an appeal for the international community. Today the spokesperson frp one of the agencies here said, quote, there is no place safe left for any civilians in gaza. It gives you a sense of the desperation that even the u. N. Is working under as one of their own facilities today came under attack by israeli fire. Mika . All right, ayman, thank you so much. Well have guests on both sides of this conflict out here. Moving on now, the eu will be debating sanctions against russia today amid fresh concerns about how much that countrys aiding prorussian separatists in Eastern Ukraine. The rebels say this video which nbc news could not verify shows the wreckage of the ukrainian fighter jet. Its one of two taken out near where flight 17 went down one week ago. The two war planes were shot down from russian territory. A leader of the rebels now says they had possession of the bukMissile System that was used to take down flight 17. The crisis led to a brawl in ukraines parliament. Lawmakers fought in the aisle over a president ial decree to call up more reserves to defend the border against russian troops. The majority of the lawmakers approved the measure. Lets stop right here. Want to get to ian. First of all, what do you make of the reaction in ukraine . The downing of the jet liners . Then i want to back up to the big picture in what were waiting to see from europe, specifically germany. Ian . Well, mika, good morning. Its been six months since russia invaded ukraine ab annexed crimea, and got this insurgency in ukraine. Its been seven days since the strikedown of mh17. The response has been nothing
but stern rhetoric and limited action. Thats not going to change putins copulous. We need to see if they will impose sanctions that will really hurt the russian economy. I dont think theyre ready to do that. What will hold them back at this point and what exactly everybody says we have to wait for germany. What exactly are we expecting . The problem with u. S. Policy is its been allowed to be shaped and limited by the lowest common denominator in europe. Thats been the hesitancy of the germans and the french to impose for sanctions. That is not a recipe for success. Leading from behind is not going to lead the europeans to a more forceful, more firm, more resolved posture. Sam stein . The problem right here is can you have a united sanction . Doe you go guard or try to provide all at once. The key on that yesterday was this fighting between france and england over who is the one with respect to russia. France coming back saying russian oligarchs are resting in london. When you dont have a united european front, it puts that pressure on putin to stop influencing whats happening there. And i think the question remains. How do you get europe to act in one cohesive, comprehensive step . Ian, what would tougher measures include in your estimation . I think we have to move from we have to move beyond parking sanctions which impose asset freezes, financial
restrictions, travel bans on individuals and entities to more systemic sanctions that really attack the russian economy on a sectoral basis. It should be the Energy Sector and the financial sector. Similar to what we did in iran. We were able to create a context that made it easier for the europeans to fall behind and support us. This should be the approach the administration takes. All right. I want to show now some of the most poignant pictures youll see so far in this story. It was a day of National Mourning in the netherlands as the first bodies of the victims arrived. The countrys king and queen joined the mourners as 40 coffins were taken to 40 different hearses. Two more planes with victims are expected to arrive later today. The ceremony also involved if youll call it that the hearse driving through the streets and just thousands and thousands of people standing to show their respect. It was very moving, actually. The hour and a half drive from the airport to the mortuary where the remains are received. Such a small country as you indicated. Thousands upon thousands of people lining the highways and overpasses. It was quite a moving scene. And after seeing these pictures, you wonder if the netherlands are perhaps the leaders in europe on the levels of sort of dignity in the face of this and moral high ground. Ill show you a poll that will back that up at this point because they are invested in russia and they are saying so what, crack down. Lets bring in a dutchamerican journal u. S. Who has been following the story in the netherlands. First of all, your response, and your thoughts as the victims are being brought home. We are a very small country. Holland is a small country. Its true. Were basically 16 million people. Twice the siess of new york
city. In holland Everybody Knows somebody who knows somebody who was on the plane. Everybody on those overpass on the way of the hearses is looking at somebody that they know, somebody they may know or may have known through somebody else. That brings together a small country. And then there is this sort of sign or this signal of dignity after those five, six days of undignified behavior in Eastern Ukraine. Holland was set up perfectly to show the world we can do this different. We can actually do it in a dignified way. You have Companies Like shell, the netherlands largest corporation. Dutch Pension Funds are also heavily invested in the companys stock. And yet in the largest dutch newspaper you have this poll that shows a majority support new sanctions. 78 of dutch are in favor of
sanctions even if it harms their economy. Its interesting we can get that from a country who has been so deeply impacted in every way and would be deeply impacted by sanctions. Are there questions about why its taking so long for others to follow suit . Yes, there are questions. But we were slow ourselves. Were very small. Were not used to talks like america. When america talks in a tragedy like this, things happen, the world moves. When holland talks, nobody really listens for the first few day. We need the american president to do it for us or the European Union. And thats hard. You need all the companies to line up for you to express the outrage. Being small is a disadvantage in this tragedy. And we also dont have the american senators who directly say on tv we need to do military action, we need to secure the perimeter, secure the crash site. We, the dutch, they dont do that. Theres none of that on television or in the National Debate. So it took time. And now finally, yes, we are heavily invested in russia. I think after china and germany, were the biggest trade partner with russia. If we put ourselves on the line and beef up the sanctions that would happen today, we would get hit. And the people still want it, because theyre mad. Theyre angry. And they want to show the world. But if we cant, i dont know. Let me turn the question around. If there are not severe sanctions, if for some reason russia passes through this without being impacted greatly, Vladimir Putin personally, what do you suggest is next . Well, i think what will happen is whats happened in the past. In the past our responses have been tactical sanctions. And russias response has been to stoke up further the insurgents to arm them. As we saw providing them increasingly sophisticated weapons including the buk
missile that shot down mh17. If the response continues to be weak, we should expect putin to continue and perhaps go against other countries in the space of the former soviet union. Thomas . Ian, as we look at whats taking place with the European Union and as mikhail points out there, hollands influence on the eu. When the lesser is not listened to there, what is the point of the muscle, the collective point of the eu if they cannot do something to sanction russia to get its attention . It would be left lying to waste, so to speak. Im amazed at the disproportion in this situation. The eu is an integrated global
economy. It gets 78 of its imported gas from russia. Russia is a 2 trillion gas station with only one customer. The eu. So theres a lot of leverage the eu has. If there was an economic showdown, yes the eu would have a price to pay. It would be painful, but the eus been on three years of growth. Small growth, but positive growth. Russia is a teetering economy. If there was an economic showdown built around severe sanctions by the west, it would be a body blow to the russian economy. All right. Were going to get to other news and return to this. There is renewed scrutiny this morning over lethal injections after what opponents of the Death Penalty are calling another botched execution. This one happened in arizona where it took joseph wood nearly two hours to die. Witnesses say it was a troubling scene as the convicted murderer repeatedly gasped and snorted. To watch a man lay there for an hour and 40 minutes gulping
air, i can lighten it to if you catch a fish and throw it on the shore. He was clearly struggling for breath. And thats atypical. Usually an execution takes 10, 11 minutes and you see virtually nothing. Woods attorney filed for a stay which the Supreme Court denied after he was pronounced dead. It was the first time arizona used the drug, but three other states encountered problems in the past. Woed was convicted in 1991 of killing his exgirlfriend debbie deets and her father gene at the familys body shop. Its interesting to get this perspective which makes sense, the family says its wrong to focus on how he died instead of the crimes he committed. Everybody b here from what i heard said it was excruciating. You dont know what excruciating is. Whats excruciating is seeing your dad lying there in a pool of blood, seeing your sister lying there in a pool of blood. This man deserved it. And i shouldnt really call him a man. He deserved everything he had coming to him. According to the Arizona Department of corrections, medical professionals in charge confirm eed wood was comatose through the procedure and never in pain or distress. Republican governor jan brewer says how would they know . I know. Then the question is after you hear the victims relatives speak is the question she posed. Brewer said wood died in a lawful matter but is concerned about how long it lasted and will order a full investigation. Sam stein . Listen, i sympathize with the victims family. I do too. I dont need to say this, but just because were questioning the execution of this man doesnt mean we sympathize with
this man. Hes a monster, he was sentenced to die. But this is the second or third really botched execution in recent memory. In which weve had had to wonder whether we are actually doing this properly. And theres a shroud of secrecy of lethal drugs in the bodies. Because the courts wont let people say who manufactures the drugs. But if were going to legally kill people, if thats going to be our law, we need to figure out how to do this in a more humane practice. We are, i think, the fifth most executions behind china, iran, iraq, and saudi arabia. Thats quite a list to be on. One of the most interesting things about the Death Penalty is this series of controversy around how it is carried out were preceded by controversies
of wrongful convictions. Weve had 20 years of successive blows to the credibility of capital punishment. Wherever you think about it, clearly there are people who have been put to death wrongly. And people worry about the way we put people to death is wrong. Were getting to the point we may have a debate that is a debate thats been in the offing for a long time about whether there is still a National Consensus behind the practice in general and the principle behind it. The estimate for the wrongful deaths, the most recent strieste is 1 in every 12 people are innocent. Someone who had 20 years to prove his innocence. He was on death row. Again, as we look at yes, correct. As we look at the criticalness of what it means to put people legally to death and humanely, obviously there is something going wrong. That this is not the way its supposed to happen effectively. Its not working. Seeing the family members talk about what it means to them, what they had to endure does help put it in perspective as this is evaluated. The problem with the National Debate over the Death Penalty is its an internal problem. It becomes so highly emotional that you lose any threat of common sense. The Death Penalty for my money is a deterrent only to the person being executed. The vast majority of homicides are committed in an instant, in a rage, an emotional rage among lovers or partners or strangers, whatever. Deterrence plays no factor in that. The ultimate deterrent if we were to choose to use it is the certainty of life in prison. No parole. The certainty of life in hell of prison. That would do it. Still ahead on morning joe, distinguished for extraordinary acts of heroism,
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