Senator Bernie Sanders will attend two events in wisconsin. They are all over the place. Im alex witt alongside betty nguyen and louis theres a fundamental choice for the american electorate. Do you want your hired president in Hillary Clinton or fired president in donald trump. You use that a whole lot. I think youre running mate used a lot of predo lines. When governor pence was in congress, he was chief cheerleader for privatization of Social Security. A chance to explain. There they go again. Donald trump cant start a twitter war with Miss Universe without shooting himself in the foot. He loves dictators. A personal mt. Rushmore. Did you work on that one a long time . That had a lot of really creative lines in it. Good morning. Its wednesday, october 5th. Welcome to morning joe. With us on set, we have veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle. Nicole wallace working all night and in richmond, virginia, manage pg editor of bloomberg politics, cohost of with all due respect on msnbc, mark halperin. Mark halperin, who won the debate . The American People. Even honest democrats would say tim kaine had some good moments but not his best night. Mike pence said things that were not true. He was on defense. He had a better night. It gives donald trump a chance to come into the debate on sunday with a little momentum but not on the defense. He should study what pence did that work. Its up to donald trump. Pence won on the stage. Cnn poll that came out last night actually came out this morning taken last night found that mike pence won the debate 48 to 42 . Neither at 10 . Doesnt really matter. You look at the people scoring this debate. All of the reporters that were talking about who tweet even those reporters seemed to give it to kaine. I think that was mostly on style. Pence, i mean. Most of it was on style. Tim kaine came out of the gate. You could see he was jacked up. Full of energy. He was jumping on everything mike pence said. Do you think he was roided out . What is wrong with you . He had conseco beforehand shooting him up. Thats a tough charge. Well have to report that out. He was wired. Overprepared. That was the style of it. I thought if you were a trump supporter who was feeling shaky or youre someone on the fence who wanted to vote for trump but
wasnt sure you could do it and needed soothing balm, it was mike pence last night. Thats the style. On the substance, remarkable that tim kaine went after him and said donald trump said that and mike pence would say no he didnt, when he did. He wanted to ban muslims from coming into the country. Come on. He didnt say that. You could see kaine getting frustrated with im going to stick everything trump ever said on you and pence said he didnt say that. Its a style substance thing. Republicans for the first time this year finally had somebody to cheer for last night. Yeah. There was a moment where i thought, god, i wonder how Many Republican hearts across the country are breaking right now they couldnt flip the coin and flip the ticket. Pence was a very reaganest presence. We judge this the way weve consumed this election. We watched every minute. We know that back in the primary pence endorsed cruz over trump. Some people tuning in and certainly the people they need to reach between today and election day, they werent following every twist and turn of the primary. I think if you just are tuning in and fall is when you decided youre going to study up and youre going to take in these candidates, what you took in in pence was a very president ial figure. Now, the little snag might be that everything he said sort of tried to brush off the fact that there is no defense of some of those statements of trump. In terms of performance, i thought that pence turned in the much more steady president ial performance. Mike barnicle, did pence help donald trump or did pence help pe pence . Pence helped pence. Pence in 2020. He was calm and measured. I dont think the debate moved the meter for either candidate. I think pens despite his commanding presence last night compared to the very
interrupting tim kaine, i think pence might have a problem today and tomorrow with the clips of what people will show what he said during the debate and then the proof of what he denies saying. Im sure theyre doing it in brooklyn right now. Reports from inside the Trump Campaign that donald trump was not pleased. Said tim kaine won or that mike pence won the debate but did not win it with donald trump but lost it with trump because he seemed to distance himself from donald trump time and again. Have you heard that at all . I asked about those reports. Im not able to confirm them. I do think just understanding the psychology of donald trump, you know, a lot of people are saying as nicole suggested why isnt pence the top of the ticket, pence did better than trump. The wall street journal lead editorial says that trump should be studying pence. Donald trump is going to have to perform. Were just a few days away from the sunday debate which matters a lot more. Trump will have to rise to the occasion and say im not going to be threatened by the fact that people are saying pence did such a good job that pence didnt defend me at every turn. I need to learn from mike pence what did he do that was effective in taking after Hillary Clinton and her record. Well see if donald trump can do that. All that matters is if trump wins the next debate. Pressure is on him. Almost everybody in both parties says he must win this debate barring some october surprise thats gigantic, trump must win this debate. Thats a lot of pressure. A couple other big political stories to get to. Lets listen to what happened last night. Kaines strategy throughout the debate was to force pence to defend the controversial statements made by donald trump. Donald trump has called mexicans rapists and criminals. Hes calls women pigs, dogs, disgusting. I dont like saying that in front of my wife and mother. Look for donald trump
apologizing to john mccain for not calling him a war hero. Did donald trump apologize for taking after somebody in a twitter war and making fun of her weight . Did he apologize for saying africanamericans are living in hell . Did he apologize for saying president obama was not even a citizen of the United States . You will look in vain to see donald trump ever taking responsibility for anybody and apologizing. He says ours is an insult driven campaign. Did you all just hear that . Ours is an insult driven campaign . To be honest with you, if donald trump had said all of the things that he said you said and the way you said he said them, he wouldnt have the fraction of the insults that Hillary Clinton leveled when she said that half of our supporters were a basket of deplorables. Let me ask quickly, nicole, weve just been saying everybody
thinks these Vice President ial debate dont matter. 2004, george w. Bush gave one of the worst debate performances in the history of modern american politics if you discount what barack obama did in 2012. It was a tie. But dick cheney dismembered nobody expected it dismember dismembered john edwards in the Vice President ial debate. Did you see a shift in the polls side the camp . We came out of the convention in 04 with a healthy bounce. We went into the first debate against john kerry and i think there was a sevenpoint swing because of bushs performance and i remember walking to the back of the bus with the newsweek poll numbers. Sorry. That didnt go over well. Cheney went out there and prepped and prepped and prepped. What did bush say when you told him he lost 17 points. What did bush said . He said we lost the
postdebate spin and i wound up to say no, we didnt, and he wound up to say gotcha i think kerry was calling the night after the debate that did not go as planned. That was fun. Good old days. Cheney and theres a caricature of cheney and i understand why it exists, but when he was seated at a table and its so intimate. These seated debates are at a strategic level and the reason kaines strategy didnt work is because youre right there interrupting a moderator does not go over well. Cheney was methodical. He speaks in a grandfatherly voice. Dismembered edwards. Not only did he stop the bleeding, i think he turned the momentum back in the direction in the same way joe biden did just as expertly in 2012 after
obama sort of whiffed his first performance. They can hit pause on bleeding. Im not sure if pence did that. I do think that pence had a very Strong Performance last night. Tim kaine was prepared for a debate at standing podiums. Were going to play more coming up. A couple Different Things we need to get to. Well have more Vice President ial debate did you see obamacare . What is he doing . Simmer down. What did he mean to say . He said what he meant to say without saying it. I dont like barack obama is what he said, which he said privately over the years. He said it he hasnt said it publicly. That whole thing was i do not like barack obama. While campaigning for his wife on monday since you all are talking about something that nobody has heard about yet so were going to tell people the story and then you can do your
thing. Former president bill clinton described obamacare as the craziest thing in the world. This guy is amazing. Just now . Yesterday or the day before. Stop it. He tried to walk the comment back at a rally in ohio yesterday said the law did a world of good. Donald trump responded, didnt he . What did bill clinton say. This is amazing. This is what clinton said on monday followed by trumps attack. The people that are getting killed in this deal are Small Business people and individuals who made just a little too much to get into the subsidies so you have a crazy system where 25 million more people have healthcare and people busting 60 hours a week wind up with premiums doubled and coverage cut in half. Its the craziest thing in the world. My god. So this guy, he needs barack obama more than anybody else in the world if he wants his wife to be elected president of the United States. If you give one person to campaign for Hillary Clinton it would be barack obama. And he just laid a gigantic hand grenade right at the feet of the campaign. Obama had to cancel an event, i believe, in florida because of the hurricane. Hes going to cancel one in iowa because of the hurricane too. Come on. Mark halperin, this guy can be his wifes he was Barack Obamas best surrogate at the convention in charlotte in 2012. But time and time again, he can be his wifes Worst Nightmare in South Carolina making the racially charged comments in
2008. In New Hampshire when everyone thought she was going to lose, he said, i cant make her taller. I cant make her a better speaker. Cant make her better looking. At the worst possible time. This is really rough, isnt it . In little rock we call that a clinton classic. Its been a while since bill clinton has done Something Like this. Its remarkable if you think about 2008 versus this campaign. He has largely stayed away from saying stuff like this. Hes saying what democrats are saying. Affordable care act isnt perfect and needs to be fixed up. You can bet theyll review bill clintons attacks and make sure he doesnt do things like this for the reason you said that they need barack obama fully onboard. They dont need stuff like this right now. As you might have guessed donald trump seized on this. Even if his cleanup yesterday where bill clinton tried to back pedal saying its done a world of good. After apologizing he made the point there are a lot of small
business owners out there twisting in the wind under this thing because they dont qualify for it. I think this cuts to a core deep feeling that bill clinton has had for a long time about barack obama. Everybody has known he certainly has told people he does not like barack obama. Hes never liked barack obama. You would think he could keep it inside here until after the election. A month away from the election. Especially since by far the two most important and most effective surrogates for Hillary Clinton are michelle obama. Michelle obama was spectacular. The former president of the United States comes on bubbling with resentment over the obama presidency. Clearly. So what planet is that man on . Donald trump was listening to bill clinton. Heres what he said. Of all people, maybe hes not a very good surrogate, i dont
think so. President bill clinton came out and told the truth about obamacare. Hes absolutely trashed president obamas signature legislation. Can you imagine what he went through after making that statement . He went through hell. You know honestly, there have been many nights when hes gone through hell with hillary. My gosh. He cant even believe his good luck here. He says all sorts of crazy stuff. You can see him reading that going did my guys get this right . This teleprompter stuff. Its unbelievable. I dont know what to say on three hours of sleep. You were up all night. Explain that to us. The clinton why did he do that . How did he do that . You hear antidotally that the former president thinks his
presidency and historical span will be measured as practically a nothing burger. He will be remembered more for Monica Lewinsky than anything else. Barack obamas presidency has had osama bin laden, several other epic things and hes barack obama. And hes more effective on the stump than bill clinton ever was. So hes resentful. But his wife is trying to be president. You would think he could keep it under wraps for a month as you try to get your wife elected president. Michelle obama on the stump. She was spectacular. Fantastic. Mark halperin, what have you heard from brooklyn . What have you heard from anybody that can explain what the hell happened . You know, when he gets out there he muses the pop psychiatrists maybe he doesnt want her to win or he doesnt want president obama to get as
much credit. He wanted to Pass Universal Health Care and didnt. I can tell you the chair of Clinton Campaign is close to former president and current one. Im certain theyre going to figure out how to keep stuff like this from happening and lucky it wasnt worse. The republicans are seizing on it. If they can use this how can it be worse . Tear up a picture of the pope or barack obama . How could it be worse . You know he could have said something that would be breaking through more than this is. This is getting some attention. This will be overwhelmed in the next 24 to 48 hours by the debate. They just have to try to keep him in check for just a couple more weeks. Keep him in check . The craziest thing in the world. He could be the first dude. He called it the craziest thing in the world. He called obamacare the craziest thing in the world. The thing that republicans have been at war with for seven
years. Twice the cost. Half the coverage. Its the craziest thing in the world. I have to see it again. Lets show it again. Heres bill clinton trying to destroy his wifes campaign. Small Business People and individuals who made just a little too much to get into these subsidies so you have this crazy system where 25 million more people have health care and people out there busting it sometimes 60 hours a week wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half. Its the craziest thing in the world. I mean, that could have been ripped out of a trump speech or mike pence speech trying to attack the legacy of barack obama. Theres no spinning out of that. You hear everybody doing their best last night. Theres no way to spin that. He said twice it was the craziest thing in the world. Sounded like republicans who said people busting it 60 hours a week working a ining cant af. 2010 tea party message. All right. There is so much more to get to. Mark halperin says it could be worse. It could be worse. No, it cant be. Im telling you. That silenced everybody. Still ahead on morning joe, Trump Campaign manager Kellyanne Conway joins us live. And Hillary Clintons chairman john podesta will be with us as well and chuck todd and former secretary for Homeland Security under president bush Michael Chertoff backing Hillary Clinton for president. Lets go to bill karins for a look at Hurricane Matthews leaving flooding behind in haiti. A lot of changes overnight. Important changes for everyone on the east coast. The storm is currently off cuba over the warm waters. It went from category 4 to category 3. Thats good. Its over warm water and could go up to a category 4 today. Hurricane warnings north of miami up to just south of the melbourne area and hurricane watches extend all of the way through florida. Heres the new forecast path updated at 5 00 a. M. From the hurricane center. Look how close this will be for florida. 30 miles offshore a category 4 hurricane as we go through thursz night and all day friday. I mean, this could be a 24 to 36 hour devastating blow if this shifts ever so slightly toward the coastline of east coast of florida. I mentioned there were changes overnight. One of the good things is if youre up in virginia, maryland and delaware, this forecast path is taking the storm move out to sea how and not up the east coast. New england is looking safe. Midatlantic is looking safe and looking better for our friends at the outer banks. From coastline of South Carolina, georgia and florida, those areas are most at risk and only 36 hours from those Hurricane Force winds arriving on the east coast of florida. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. You can go ahead and stick with that complicated credit card that limits where you earn bonus cash back. Or. You can get the quicksilver card from capital one. Quicksilver earns you unlimited 1. 5 cash back on every purc