Msnbc contributor Mike Barnicle. Senior political analyst for nbc news and msnbc mark halperin. Former Communications Director for ted cruzs 2016 president ial campaign. And now an msnbc political contributor rick tyler, chair of the department of africanamerican studies at Princeton University, columnist for Time Magazine eddie cloud, jr. In washington columnist and associate editor for Washington PostDavid Ignatius joins us along with washington anchor for bbc world news america katy kay. Lets begin. Fallout continues from President Trumps unconfirmed claim that president obama, quoteh my wires tapped in trump tower with no one inside the white house seeming to understand or appreciate the gravity of the claims. Press Secretary Sean Spicer would not reveal President Trumps source of information yesterday when defending these saturday morning tweets. Does the president believe that former president barack obama commit add feloted a felo . I think the president s tweets speak for themselves. He wants the House Intelligence Committee to look into this matter to understand what happened during the election. When did the president come to believe that president Obama Wiretapped his phones. Again, i think the president s tweets speak for themselves. So far the most definitive comes from director of National IntelligenceJames Clapper who said on meet the press sunday that it simply did not happen. The part of theecity apparatus i oversaw dni, there was no such wiretap activity mounted against the president elect at the time as a candidate or against his campaign. I cant speak for other title 3 authorized entities in the government. There is no fisa order. Not to my knowledge. Anything at trump tower . No. David ignatius, ill start with you and get you on the record here. Is there any reason we shouldnt move on from this question of where this came from and why the president did it . The president s assertion is out there. Hes sticking by it. So we have to think what could he possibly be talking about. Weve had a statement thats as hard as it can be from jim clapper that there was no such fisa order, what else is possible. The only thing i can think of it is possible collection of russian, russian agents, incidental collection of people in trump tower who might have been talking to them or in some way conversations among people who were being wiretapped, russians normally followed for intelligence purposes. There was gossip about people they knew in the trump campaign, people they talked to at trump tower. People talk a lot. My takeaway, first, this is trumps style. If he was a businessman, and was sued, he would countersue. He would counterclaim. So i think were seeing that going oppose. The other is to be really careful about intelligence material. Intelligence pickups raw information. You never know the accuracy of it. People brag about what they have been doing, brag about their contacts. In this period when investigations are going on, the only people that understand this are peopl outside of our world in the Intelligence Community or looking carefully, we hope, honestly at the information. Finally, it will be months from now, drawing conclusions. So i have some reporting talking to a few people who are either close to the white house or inside it that the president actually knows he messed up and wont admit it, just refuses to admit it. Mark halperin, all this while theres infighting on the inner circle. Really serious infighting and jo jokeying for jobs. Everyone in the inner cad re, bannon down, so busy trying to get their jobs they dont realize rome is burning. Also a challenge for the administration, a lot of unfilled jobs. A lot in the administration have never worked in the building, some have never been in the building this. President s style is to let them fight it out. The challenge is going to be the big things, the immigration ban, temporary ban and health care l law. The question is given all the distractions, can they move these things forward. I think people are underrating chances to do it but it is still a very tough climb. Katty kay, give me your gut on how europe is looking at this, how leaders around the world are responding. I know you focus you have a show thats focused on the first 100 days from the worlds point of view. Whats the worlds point of view right now . I think t still a lot of confusion about what is coming out of the administration. They hear Different Things from different principles. They hear mike pence say one thing that is reassuring to european allies alongside jim mattis and hear the president Say Something else. Like us, mika, they listen to the president s state of the Union Address to congress in which he talked about nato being a Strong Alliance and really valued. Then something happens like it did over the weekend and that resets everything and people wonder what they can trust. Thats also the state americans are in. They are looking at the administration and thinking, well, it might seem normalized for today, for a day or two, and something happens like it did on saturday morning and peoples confidence in that normality is shaken. One piece of reporting i had, i spoke to a good friend of the president who had seen him twice at maralago. He said he had never seen the president this angry, chris ruddy. When i asked what evidence he had obama tapped the form or ordered tapping the phone, he gave him no evidence but had confidence about it. He kept reiterating. In the trump team they absolutely believed they were the subject of surveillance. Some republican members of congress were insistent in order to investigate the president should share what he knows. The American People have a right to know on what basis the president of the United States said that his predecessor had broken the law by wiretapping trump towers. If the white house does provide more information the american should demand and see what he does. The American People should know on what basis and then well see what the basis is. If theres no basis for it, theres no reason for an investigation. Its really hard to crossexamine tweets. Theres only two ways to be intercepted, one title 3, criminal inquiry, the other is fisa, an intelligence inquiry. There is no other way for it lawfully to be done. The good news about both of those, bill, is theres a paper trail, theres an application, there are warrants, all of which can be reviewed. Right now the executive branc is controlled not by the Obama Administration but by the Trump Administration. Its a very serious allegation, the president has at his fingertips buffaloes dollars in intelligence apparatus. Ive got to believe, i think he might have something there. If not, were going to find out. Mike barnicle. Rick tyler, you have an administration that yesterday issued a second and new executive order in immigration. You have an administration where House Republicans introduced the repeal and replace plan they have been talking about for eight years. Yet all of this is clouded by the self tied, selfknotted anchor the president tied around this immediate partys future. How do you deal with that. Let me put it together. David ignatius is on to something absolutely right. That is trump is he is trying to say they are saying you dont have the evidence on what the russians theres no collaboration with the russians. Okay, fine, ill throw something out there and you wont have the evidence and well be even. Its like the lawsuit. Clapper said hes trading in political currency, joe said yesterday on the show he called him a day trader in political currency. Ill take it a step further and that is now theres a margin call on the integrity of this white house. That is dangerous. Because when you have north korea have four missiles or Health Care Bill that needs to get passed, people need to trust what the president says about those policies. They cant. Then they cant move forward. How can anyone trust what this president says. Im sorry, get right to the chase here. How can anybody trust what comes out of his mouth or his tweets . You cant. You cant. Thank you. Unless you can prove that barack obama went to trump tower himself. And wiretapped his house. And wiretapped. Rk, help me. Votes on the house. No president passes major legislation like that without saying to members of his own party my presidency is on the line. I need you to vote for something youre politically worried about and its tougher to get the votes if they are not invested in the presidency. President trump officially rolled out a revamped version of his controversial executive order on immigration. Under the new guidelines citizens from iran, somalia, sudan, syria and libya will be subjected to a 90 day ban on travel to the u. S. Iraq has been removed from the original list. An apparent request from defense secretary jim mattis. The new order does not apply to current lawful permanent residents and the preference for religious minorities has been removed. The plan still bars all refugees from entering the u. S. For 120 days but no longer singles out syrians who were previously banned indefinitely. The president signed the order yesterday in a much more reserved fashion with the white house simply tweeting out this photo. The formal announcement delivered by secretary of state Rex Tillerson, attorney general Jeff Sessions and Homeland Security secretary john kelly. Tillerson says the reworked ban is vital for National Security. It is the president s solemn duty to protect the American People. With this order, President Trump is exercising his rightful authority to keep our people safe. As threats to our security continue to evolve and change, common sense dictates we tenilletenille continually reevaluate the systems we rely upon to protect our country. The guidelines set to take affect march 16th, giving more than a weeks notice. President trump previously argued for the immediate rollout of the prior version saying if the ban were announceed with a oneweek notice, the bad would rush into our country during that week. Bad dudes. Yeah. The new version of the order is being met with praise, in some cases muted from republican lawmakers who criticized the original. But democrats have slamm the measure saying its essentially seco verse, same as the first. The truth is, there is very little new or improved about this executive order. Its barely a fresh coat of paint on the same car that doesnt drive. Its still a travel ban. Its still a refugee ban. It still makes us less safe, not safer. The new executive order is still meanspirited, misguided, and in my judgment goes against what america is all about in being a country that accepts and cher issues immigrants not disdains them. David ignatius, how does this make us safer, if you can explain the ban to us. I think thats the heart of the matter. The area where the administrations case is the weakest. The new executive order fixes the obvious problems that were wrong with the last one that led an Appeals Court to stay, iraq is out, religious preferences are out. On the question of how this helps our National Security, in other words, what was the threat to National Security this is trying to fix, its very vague. Theres some specific language, theres an assertion that 300 refugees have been a subject of criminal counterterrorism investigations. So see, here is the threat as people have looked at those numbers, they noted 300 people by one count 1 15 of 1 of the refugees who have come since 9 11 from the six countries that are subject to this ban. So its a tiny number. They are going to have to put more information on the record to convince people that theres a real National Security justification for this i think uncomfortable ban on people coming to e u. S. Soany dferent issues with it in tms of theore of who we are as americans. Mark halperin, we also have the added problem of Stephen Miller who has become sort of like a character on this show. We call him the tiny dictator or little miller because he proclaimed on sunday morning shows with such strength and determination that the president has powers that will not be questioned. He also said on the record this ban is no different than the first one. How are we going to see this play out legally . What are your thoughts. Will be challenged legally. Only one federal judge to decide he or she doesnt like parts of it to invalidate it. The white house made substantial changes. I dont think he can argue while theres a Robust National debate whether its consistent with our values, he cant argue its inconsistent with what he ran out. This is exactly what he said he was going to do a lot of americans do like it. I think we should have the National Debate and we will. Which parts of the new, revised ban trouble you the most. Continues to trouble me. Part of what troubles me is we have to understand it in the overall policy around immigration that donald trump is putting forward and what it represents in terms of his vision of the country. Theres a sense in which not only is he trying to sell the issue around safety, protecting the country from terrorists but there seems to be a sense in which hes putting a forward a view of who we are as a people, who belong here. I think to think about the travel ban in connection or in conjunction with broad immigration policy around the wall and the like and mexican immigration and the like, i think we begin to see something thats a little bit more insidious than we might be comfortable w i think going back to the broader question about the debate about american values, who do we take ourselves to be, the travel ban in that sense is noxious in every wap, shape, form or fashion. Even the new. Not the least bit inconsistent with what he said he would do as a candidate. Not inconsistent but i would say the views he held as a candidate were noxious, so these are consistent. Katty kay, if you look at the second order and compare it to the first. There are obvious differences. It appears to be less punitive the latest one. If you really look at it, you have to ask your self why do we need the ban at all given the stringent immigration screens that go on right now. It takes about two years to get here. What is different about this other than the politics of it. This has always been the slight misnomer that has come out of the white house, the idea that people are pouring into the america from these six, formerly serve countri seven countries, as if theres no restriction, as if they jump on a plane. Extreme vetting happens. It takes two years to get to the countries. Often visas are denied to people who want to come to the country. To what extent by playing spot idea that america is at war with islam, which is something that Islamic State has already made hey out of is this ban making america less safe versus some more controls of people coming from those countries which might weed out the odd person who had bad intentions. And that debate is the debate that really needs to be had. Is it effective or not . There is plenty of evidence from isis on videotapes and things they have said they are using this ban already for their propaganda purposes. While were on the issue of immigration, eddie, help me out here because youre a professor and you might know something about this. Tell me if this is bad. Hard to even joke. Housing urban Development Ben carson accused of mischaracterizing history when he referred to slaves as immigrants. Only a matter of time. Oh, my god. During a speech to hud employees. Thats what america is about, a land of dreams and opportunity. There were other immigrants who came here in the bottom of slave ships who worked even harder, even longer for less, but they, too, had a dream that one day their sons, daughters, grandsons, daughters, great grandsons, great granddaughters might pursue prosperity and happiness in this land. I think people need to actually look up the word immigrant. Whether youre voluntary or involuntary, if you come from outside to inside, youre an immigrant. Whether youre legal or illegal, you come from the outside to inside, youre an immigrant. Slaves came here as involuntary immigrants. Eddie, eddie, eddie, eddie. What are we going to do . Thats just dumb. I dont want to sound like an ivy league snob, its just dumb. He corrected it. He corrected it on his facebook page. But we need to make a very clear distinction between slavery and immigration, involuntary immigration and voluntary immigration, it still isnt slavery. The word slave isnt a synoni s with the word immigrant. They are distinct, different. This is part of the broader problem with not only ben carson but the Trump Administration, betsy devos, trump himself, they play fast and loose with the history of the country. The immigration ban, muslim ban, its not only going to provide fuel to the fire for Islamic State, its going to add fuel to the fire of islamophobia in this country. Here we have ways to rereading the past to make it easier for us to simulaassimilate the darkf who weve been to who or who we are being led to be. Who we are led to be. One element of what you said, what i think is so overlooked in this culture of ours, we dob teach the measure story to ourselves. We do not know our own history, really know it. Part of what he was doing if you read the longer transcript, hes telling the story of america as the american dream, the american promise. Its an ellis island narrative in one way