Right. Yeah. So whats your big take away . All the anecdotes certainly ring true to the man we know and the man who never evolved or stepped up when he won the presidency. So theyre not surprised, but certainly it certainly gives flavor to it all. I think the book also reveals there are some patriots hanging in there trying hard to keep this thing together and i guess we owe them a debt of gratitude. You know . I dont know what sometimes you really cant imagine what you would do if youre in that position, in the position of secretary mattis, or in the position of gary cohen taking papers away to tree to prevent something from happening. Theyre basically trying to handle someone who is unhinged and not well, and not thinking in the best interests of our country. Willie, was there a part for you that stuck out . I think to me it was secretary mattis saying were dealing with somebody with the intelligence of a fifth or sixth grader, talking to the president with his understand of the world. Like mika says, its not surprising. Its what we hear in private now splashed into the pages of a book. People inside the white house, in fact the people closest with President Trump, who believe he is not capable of handling this job and that they are guardrails around the presidency of the United States. Of course, the white house vehemently denied this book but bob woodward has talked to almost everyone who works inside of the white house. Al also this line, this has been going on for a long time. Right . Mika and i had went to visit him in trump tower back in 2015, i think it was, and everybody was shocked and offended that i had given him Campaign Advice, and you know what my Campaign Advice was for him . Read. I was like, do you you did say that. And this was in, what . Maybe october of 2015 . At trump tower. A little awkward. But i go, do you read . Do you ever read . Can you read . And i wasnt being sarcastic, and he just had people around him, people around him who also said, during the middle of that campaign, that he had im sorry weve got to just keep saying it niying it na that he had early stages of dementia, that they had to treat him a certain way, they had to act a certain way around him. P that was not me saying early stages of dementia, this was during the campaign and how they worked around his limitations. It may not be new or surprising but no less disconcerting of the things said about the president of the United States by people who are his allies. People working alongside him. Can i ask john quickly a question . Do you want to hear what were asking or ask him and then going to take the latter, i think. You know the answer to that. Im going to Start Talking about baseball now. Oh, no. Please i dont take these questions well. I am important from alabama and donald trump believes everybody from alabama is stupid, believes everybody from alabama talks with marbles in their mouth. He believes everybody, when the university of alabama, theyre dumb and incapable of holding down a government job. The insults to alabama from donald trump, nonstop for a week, insults attacking the great state of alabama. He did it in a politico article. Doing it with bob woodward now. He may hate alabama, but in the words of skynyrd, a southern man dont need him around anyhow. Now that ive gotten through that, because mika thinks im incapable of asking you a question, because i went to the greatest university on the planet. This guy, the phrase he uses, mentally retarded. A dumb southerner couldnt even be a oneperson country lawyer down in alabama. He has hatred and contempt for my people, and, yes, my people, places that i grew up in and was raised and went to school in, in one of the great state schools in america, alabama. Now, let me get to the question. Uhhuh. What was your big takeaway from the book . A certain story . A certain element that struck you . Id say one. After a series of books, the president , when hes on tape with woodward, oh another one of these bad books. Hes had a bunch of bad books. Fire and fury biggest selling so far. Woodwards may exceed that, who knows. They all paint a consistent picture. Draw a line between fire and fury most dont think Michael Wolfe has the credibility bob woodward has, but pictures in the two books are strikingly consistent, as are books like the book by omarosa. They paint a consistent picture and knew the book was coming out. Had a publication book of next tuesday. If you read anything about how his books work, the Washington Post somehow gets a copy of the book the previous week, and yet yesterday they were caught totally flat foot the and flabbergasted for hours before they mounting any kind of a critical response. To your point about the southern thing. Interesting it was one of the few things he picked up on yesterday and directly tweeted about, trying to refute the notion he would ever criticize southerners because he recognizes his political vulnerability there and other things to say about the hedged nature of denials hes citing. The way mattis and kelly phrased their denial. We can go into that later but the last thing ill say, its a stunningly devastating picture not just of the president but of all the people around him and all of these people who went to woodward, many who now left the administration, theyre clear bread crumbs to the people like cohen and the others, all of these people come off bad like the president , enabling him. Guard rails of democracy, trying to save the world. Maybe mattis falls into that. A lot of other guys in a culture of enabling his worst instincts rather than push back against him. A very unflatters picture of everyone in the white house the first 18 months. Not a way a president should work. You see consistencies with other books and reporting but also with your investigative reporting on this president. His behavior, his ability to contain himself and his temper. Youve seen it. Yeah, and the big takeaway for me was looking at this. Its hard to fathom a president of the United States, the commander in chief, giving orders, saying that he wanted certain policies to be adopted and the people around him essentially thinking that they know better and running a sort of tag Team Operation where they would, one of them would warn another one about the president s moving in a certain direction and would all kind of mobilize to keep the president from doing what he wanted to do, and our reporting showed that, you know, we focused largely on the president S National Security team, and starting from last summer, a deterioration of that relationship and a constant battle between hiS National Security advisors who wanted him to take measures that they thought were far better than the ones the president was proposing, and president they felt needed to be contained on everything from afghanistan to the korean peninsula. Looking through our own copy of the book, theres so much to work with. Heres how Nbcs Kristen Welker reported on it yesterday. Reporter in his explosive new book, bob woodward describes the Trump Presidency in the midst of a nervous breakdown, excerpts first obtained by the Washington Post aides calling it crazytown at times paralyzed by the russia investigation and that possible interview with Robert Mueller. Ive always wanted to do an interview. Reporter woodward describing the president s one time doern john dowd so concerned the president would commit perjury he staged a practice session. That session so rocky, he later told mr. Trump, dont testify. Its that or an orange jumpsuit. The book also a remarkable portrait of aides taking extreme measures to block their boss. Former economic adviser gary cohen reportedly preventing the president . Withdrawing from a trade agreement with south korea by swiping a letter off his desk and after the president told defense secretary james mattis he wanted to assassinate syrian dick cater Bashar Al Assad for a chemical attack, president mat is said on the phone he would do it but then told a senior aide were not going to do any of that and the book describing extraordinary insults from the president s staff writing mattis described mr. Trump as having the understanding of a fifth or sixth grader and chief of staff john kelly called the president an idiot. Kelling calling that b. S. And another pathetic attempt to smear people close to President Trump and distract from the administrations many successes. Mattis calls the accusations the product of someones rich imagination. Woodward describing a president lobbing his own insults calling Jeff Sessions retarded and a dumb souther. Woodward didnt talk to President Trump for the book saying his requests went unanswered publishing this phone call with the president last month. Who did you ask about speaking to me . Well, about six people. Well, they dont tell me. Reporter the president responding with an interviewer with the daily caller saying its just another bad book and woodward had a lot of credibility problems. Alleges in the white house residence on january 27, the president s then personal attorney john dowd peppered trump with questions about the russia investigation provoking stumbles, predictions and lies until the president eventually lost his cool. Dowd said that, dont testify. Its either that or an orange jumpsuit. If its decision time, youre going to go forward. I cant be with you. I think the president of the United States cannot be seen taking the fifth, trump said. No, no. Im a good witness. Ill be a real good witness. Dowd knew this was selfdelusion. You are not a good witness, dowd said again. Trump had one overriding problem that dowd knew but could not bring himself to say to the president , youre an, expletive, liar. They met in office and dowd and sekulow reenacted the practice session. The incredible part, willie. That dowd, who weve always seen at being, you know, an opponent of Robert Mueller, they sit down and they both talk about the same problem they have as americans. Yes. And dowd said to mueller, im not going to sit there and let him look like an idiot, dowd said. The guys overseas or going to say i told you he was an idiot, a damn dumbbell. What are you dealing with this idiot for . Wow. And then mueller says, john, i understand. So there you have extraordinary. This is like one of the most extraordinary parts of the book where Robert Mueller, american, is talking to Donald Trumps attorney, also as an american, and both of these two, supposed to be on opposite sides, are both saying, we cant embarrass the president of the United States and the face of the world this way because he will look too stupid and it will actually hurt american interests abroad. Extraordinary on so many levels. First of all hearing bob muellers voice through the book were e dont hear that often and that you have the president s own attorney not just protecting the president of the United States, President Trump in this case but protecting in essenced presidency. And dowd quick shortly thereafter. Clearly he didnt think donald trump was going to listen to him in the end and he wasnt the advocate, perhaps, donald trump, that he thinks he can be. Remember, he thinks if i sit across from somebody ill be able to make my case. Im going to convince them. Ill a salesman. I can make it happen. And dowd is telling him in no Uncertain Terms, no, sir, you are not. Lawyers have an ethical obligation if they know that their client is committing perjury or is going to commit perjury, they have to report that to the court. This is, mika, obviously something that john dowd knew that he was going have to do if donald trump testified. In an email to the Washington Examiner dowd work, there was no socalled practice session or mock interview at the special counsels office. Hmm. Be clear on one thing. Mueller there, though, is not at all seeding the notion that he doesnt want trump to come and testify. Reads true how mueller would read things. I understand, meaning i understand the nature of your problem. I get it. Doesnt mean im trying to protect the president or Donald Trumps presidency, but i understand the nature of your problem as a lawyer that you have here, mr. Dowd. Nonetheless, i still want the president to come and testify, because what also rings true here and ive been saying it for some time, that its been very clear, and here bob woodward confirms it 1,000 times over, that the president is surrounded by lawyers and always has been surrounded by lawyers who think hes too stupid to sit down man to man, across the table and talk to Robert Mueller. And you read what dowd has said, what sekulow is saying. They all say one thing to his face, Rudy Giuliani. You know, Rudy Giuliani will huff and puff. Bottom line is, giuliani believes like everybody else that donald trump is too stupid, or too just mentally scattered or maybe just unable to keep up with Robert Mueller and hell commit perjury. Stupid is one possibility. Another obviously is saying with the lawyers. Not what im thinking. I would always be insulted that theyre thinking just because he went to st. Pauls here we go. A fine school, by the way. St. Pauls. Not like some of the better Public Schools in alabama but still a decent school. Or andover. But st. Pauls is still a really good school. Yeah, sure. And then youve got your princeton. He went to princeton. Yeah. Good school. Its almost like his lawyers are thinking a guy from queens cant keep up with Robert Mueller who then you said went to uva law school. No, they dont think. They know. They know. They all think hes dumb, think hes stupid, all say hes an idiot. All think hes id be really insulted if i was the president and people thought that about me. I know you would and god knows no one would ever think you were too dumb to go up with some andover school, because you were educated in some of the best schools. The other thing they could think, that hes a pathological liar and that he will lie, regardless what his mental state is or intellectual capacity is, the president will commit perjury. The facts are bad, truth is bad. He will avoid the truth or doesnt know what the truth is, you suggested a second ago. Not that hes dumb. In the minds of the lawyers, but that hes lost track of reality one way or the other. Some of those things, some combination of those things are clearly what his lawyers think. All of this lawyers think it would be a mistake for him to sit in front of bob mueller and his team. That is consistent. We have to be clear here that its, all the people around him that are calling him dumb and saying hes, hes like a fifth or a sixth grader in his intelligence is an intaugsult t lot of fifth and sixth graders, but theres no doubt that they think this guy is not man enough to sit across from the table with Robert Mueller and does have the mental capabilities to do it. Can you imagine being president of the United States. He got elected president of the United States its ridiculous. Stop. No, what . Cant even being host of this show and have people think that about me. They think that about me but i can live with t. Okay, okay. Dowd health a session to convince the president of this. Pretend im bob mueller and well have a back and forth and see how those goes. After 30 minutes according to Bob Woodwards bob, donald trump said, ah, i dont want to dos they. Saying his ignorant is kindness at this point. Hes a president. Youre not the president. Dowds not the president. He has to be smart. He should testify with mueller. Yeah. Okay. Just being salty. Wed like to see that. Carol lee, talk about john kelly who calls it crazytown and certainly in Bob Woodwards descriptions has his own opinions about the president that came out, and his denials, because everyones denying it this morning inside the white house sound a lot like the denials he gave you when you had similar reporting . Almost identical. He said we reported john kelly referred multiple times to the president as an idiot behind his back essentially thought he was, he knew better than the president and was acting as if he had gotten elected. You know, john kelly issued a statement calling our story b. S. , said that he and the president have a very candid relationship, but hes never called him an idiot, and we saw yesterday he issued almost an identical statement saying the same thing. Weve also reported on secretary mattis and hi relationship with the president and how that, theyve had sort of a falling out and that the president believes that mattis looks down on him. And slow walks a lot of his policies which he does. And i think that the question now is, the president was not blind to all of this. Our reporting shows he was aware what the people around him thought about him. Going back to when Rex Tillerson called him a moron, but that was when it was private. Now its all out there in public. How the president responds, the moves he make, fires anybody, moves to further isolate the people around him who he now knows and the world knows feel this way about him, is snag i think will be really interesting to watch. Because clearly a number of the National Security team in particular of those folks have been blocking him from making what most Foreign Policy experts would tell you would be disastrous policy positions. Sound like theyre doing the 25th amendment without actually doing the 25th amendment is what it looks like to me. Id fire all the attorne