Adherence to the physical separation, the guidelines that the Vice President talks about, the physical separation, at the same time were seeing the increase in deaths. Were seeing rather dramatic decrease in the need for hospitalizations. Yesterday was Something Like 200 new hospitalizations. Its been as high as 1,400 at any given time. So that is going in the right direction. I say that, and i always remind myself when i say that, that means that what we are doing is working. Therefore, we need to continue to do it. I get questions a lot, dr. Birx and i, about these numbers, the projections. They went from 100,000, 200,000, now down to 60,000. Thats a sign that when, as i keep saying, when you take the data you have, and you reinsert it into the model, the model modifies. Data is real. Model is hypothesis. Okay . Thats what you have to do. Thats what i think were seeing. Dr. Anthony fauci at yesterdays White House Briefing, explaining a revised projection for deaths in the u. S. From the coronavirus that is dramatically lower than the previous estimate, joe. It really is. The doctors, as the wall street journal editorialized, as republicans are talking about, the doctors should be allowed to speak to the American Public. The doctors should be allowed to speak to americans who are concerned. Senior citizens who know theyre not getting good information when the president blusters. Who understands hes gotten this wrong from the very beginning. Who understand that scientists, doctors, those are the people that need to speak. Not donald trump, who has been wrong from the very beginning. Not his henchmen in the media. You have henchmen in the media attacking dr. Fauci, claiming he is some Hillary Clinton plant. Oh, my gosh. It is outrageous. Actually, its stupid. Its stupid. Also, there are deadly consequences to that kind of talk. We should know already because weve been there before. These liars in the trump media who have been downplaying this from the very beginning, who made sure that americans were illprepared. Who made sure that the president s lies were bolstered. You know, i was looking, willie. I saw a headline, a headline thats hard to read, from the la times this morning, that the u. S. Death toll topped 16,000 from the coronavirus. Incredible. This is, again, more people than died at 9 11 plus a 20year war in afghanistan. Plus the tragedy in iraq. Add it all up, more americans have died from this than all those wars. This is what donald trump said back on february 26th. When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be close to zero, thats a pretty good job that weve done. 15 people. Pretty soon, it will be close to zero. Weve done a pretty good job. Throughout february, he kept talking about how, in april, we were going to have warm weather, and it was all going to magically go away. Well, now were in april, and almost 1,800 people died yesterday of coronavirus, of a pandemic that he said would magically go away in april. Yet, as the wall street journal, and actually other conservatives are now starting to say, the president is hurting his cause because, well, almost 1,800 americans are dying in a day. Hes talking about his tv ratings. Talk about being illequipped, not just to be president , not just to be a leader in the middle of a pandemic, but illequipped to be a leader of anything. Youre talking about your ratings when more 1,800 people are dying in a single day. Its actually gotten too much even for republicans. Even for the wall street journal editorial page to handle anymore, willie. Yeah. To put it in terms he might actually listen to and might draw his attention, his Approval Rating has dropped again. Remember, it surged in the early stages of this, got him above 50 . Hes back down to where he was, as people watch this show every single day. Youre right, we see that contrast again yesterday, where dr. Fauci gets up in real talk, describes the numbers, describes whats happening, and says the death toll may be lower. That is great news. And weve gotten there because of social distancing, because of all these difficult policies that weve put in place. Weve all lived by and adhered to. Immediately, the president , according to the Washington Post, is talking again about opening the economy. Because he heard the death toll is going to be lower than he originally heard in those reports that said thered be between 100,000 and 240,000. Hes now saying by the end of this month or by may 1st, its time to open parts of the economy, large parts of the economy again, not making the connection that the doctors and the scientists and the Public Health officials make between the number being lowered and these policies working. So if you take these policies away, they say the numbers will go up again. As you say, the president yesterday, in the middle of this, in a day when 800 new yorkers died in the city where he was born and lived for most of his life, saying his ratings, at these news briefings, are through the roof, citing a New York Times article that compared his ratings to those of the bachelor finale. Thats what he was tweeting about yesterday. Oh, my god. By the way, all these trump talking heads that are saying we should reopen the economy now, that it is all a hoax, hey, rush limbaugh, go to your local publix and bag groceries. If you think its such a great idea help out. If you think it is such a great idea to reopen the economy, you can lead by example, by going to a Grocery Store and bagging groceries. You can do it today. Sure. Do it today. There are other people at other news outlets that say one thing on the air and, yet, do something completely different off the air regarding the economy. Saying, oh, its a you know what . If you think the economy should be opened up, why dont you go out and go out unprotected, without a mask. Do whatever you think we should do. You go out and bag groceries, or go out and pump gas. You know, i know and you know youre not going to do that. Youre just youre purposefully trying to amp your ratings by attacking doctors, like dr. Fauci, by attacking science. You think itll help with your ratings. Youre telling americans to go out and do things that will kill them, that will kill their loved ones, that will kill Senior Citizens. And youre doing it for ratings. But you wont do it yourself. So if youre not willing to go out and work in an office with hundreds of people around you, dont tell other people to do that. Because its just its not only hypocrisy, it is also deadly advice. By the way, after all that you have said from the beginning, like being a booster for the president , lying about this pandemic, when he said, we only have one person and its from china. Nothing to worry about, on february 22nd. When he said, oh, we have 11 people. Soon, itll be down to zero. We only have 15 people. Soon, itll be down to zero. Itll go away magically in april. Oh, other than the cruise ship, were doing great. Im not worried at all. You were going along with the president during that time, giving Senior Citizens bad advice. Giving the children of Senior Citizens bad advice. Giving the grandchildren of Senior Citizens bad advice. Giving false security that ended up, yes, we can say this, that ended up killing thousands of people who didnt get the message soon enough. So maybe you should just shut up right now and let the doctors and let the scientists and let the medical experts do everything they can do to save the lives of Senior Citizens. This is were talking about republican Senior Citizens. Im talking about saving the lives of democratic Senior Citizens. Im talking about saving the lives of conservative Senior Citizens. Im actually talking about saving the lives of the very people who make up the heart of your audience. You need to shut up. Stop talking about rushing straight into the economy because youre going to kill more people. Along with joe, willie, and me, we have cofounder and ceo of axios, jim vandehei, and historian jon meacham, whose new book is the hope of glory, reflections on the last forewords of jesus from the cross. Timely, with today being good friday and easter coming up this sunday. Of course, the president had talked about opening the country back up on easter. Now, he says, that was aspirational. Again, you heard dr. Fauci say that what were doing is working. We, the americans, and that we need to continue to do it. At the same time, the Trump Administration is now reportedly pushing to reopen much of the country by next month. Which is raising concerns among medical experts and economists. People familiar with the discussions tell the Washington Post that behind closed doors, President Trump has been looking for a strategy to resume Business Activity by may 1st. You can see it in the tweets of some folks on fox news who parrot what he says. According to the post, in phone calls with outside advisers, trump has even floated trying to reopen much of the country before the end of this month, when the current federal recommendations to avoid social gatherings and work from home expire. Here is what the president said during yesterdays briefing. I think we can say that we have to be on that downside of that slope and heading to a very strong direction that this thing is gone. We can do it in phases. We can go to some areas which are much less affected than others. It would be nice to open with a big bang and open up our country, or certainly most of our country. I think well do it soon. You look at whats happening. I would say were ahead of schedule. You hate to say it too loudly, because all of a sudden, things dont happen. But i think we will be sooner rather than later. How can the administration discuss the possibility of reopening the country when the administration does not have an adequate, nationwide testing system for this virus . Dont you need a nationwide testing no. System for the virus before you reopen . No, we have a great testing system. We have, right now, the best testing system in the world. There are certain sections in the country that are inquestion nom phenomenal shape already. Other sections are coming online, and others are going down. Dont you need to make sure people are safe going back to work . Well have it. Well see if we have it. Do you need it . No. Is it nice . Yes. Millions of people. Its not going to happen, as you can imagine, and it would never happen with anyone else either. Other countries do it, but they do it in limited form. Well probably be the leader of the pack. I mean, theres so much thats just wrong in what the president said. So much lying there. Were not doing better than anybody else if you look at per person, per senior, per patient. Were doing worse than so many countries, willie, in the world. This is something the Trump Administration has botched from the very beginning, and people have been saying, medical experts have been saying, weve been saying, everybody that really knows whats going on have been saying, you need to have extensive testing. You know, its the hypocrisy of donald trump trying to push everybody back into the work force without having adequate testing. I talk about his home county of Palm Beach County. You still really cant maybe 1,000, 2,000 tests a day in a county of 1. 4 Million People. Senior citizens who need to know whether they have covid19 in Palm Beach County and across the state of florida and wisconsin and pennsylvania. They cant really get those tests the way they need them. Here, you have the president , who is the biggest germaphobe, who gets a stack, and always has, a stack of hand sanitizers and wipes down before he even eats in his own restaurants, trying to push people back into the work force early, without even knowing whether theyre going to be working with people who were infected or not. Again, if he gets the testing, then we can know with certainty who has covid19 and who doesnt. Those who dont have covid19 can go into work. But he wont do that. Weve been begging him to do that on this show for a long time. Si scientists have been begging him to do it. He just wont get the testing necessary to allow the economy to open back up safely. Yeah. He talks about it like a luxury. He said, would it be nice . Yeah. But he doesnt think it is necessary. There isnt a Public Health official weve had on this show over the last two months who hasnt led with testing. We cant get our arms around this unless we know who has it. We cant send people back to work unless we know who has it. Youre right to point out that, yes, as a raw number, about 2 million tests, weve done more than anybody else. But were in a country of 325 Million People. Per capita, were not close. The reality is its a long road to testing everybody who needs to be tested. Thats a difficult thing to tell the American People, that this is going to go on longer. As he sees Approval Ratings slip, as he sees the unemployment numbers come in again, he knows this is headed in a bad direction. Its already in a bad place and getting worse. He believes by starting the economy again, that, somehow, will turn it around. A Public Health official will tell you the opposite. It might reignite the Coronavirus Crisis in places. Lets talk to an expert now. Director of the Global Health harvard institute. Also practicing medicine at harvard medical school. Doctor, ill get you to react to the president s characterization of testing as something that would be nice to have, but its not necessary. Willie, thanks. All of you guys, for having me back on. Everybody else has led with this, and ill lead with this. We cannot open up our economy without adequate testing. Lets think about what would happen if we did. Lets say may 1st, we opened the doors, everybody is back to work. Itd be great for a few weeks. For a few weeks, we wouldnt notice it at all. Then youd see massive flareups of cases across the country. All the hard work that americans are doing will have been wasted. We will have to shut down again, and we will shut down for much longer. So if thats what we want to do, sure, lets open up may 1st without adequate testing. But the right answer is and, again, to quote dr. Fauci, we dont make the timeline. The virus makes the timeline. Wait until the viral levels are really low in our country. Lets have a robust testing system. Then lets open up slowly. I think we can stay open, which is what americans want. We do not want to have to shut down again. Dr. J ha, weve talked about all these issues, the personal protective equipment, but testing really is the first thing we hear from doctors like you, who are experts in this area. What does a National Testing system look like . Obviously, its a long road to get everyone in the country tested. We know that. Right now, it is a patch wowork private laboratories and companies coming up with a concept. Some are fquick. Some are in development. How do we get everyone tested more quickly than we are right now . Yeah. We do need a national coordination, right . Every state has different barriers. There are states that cant test because they dont have enough swabs. I sort of shake my head, thinking, weve shut our economy down because we dont have enough swabs . Yup, thats the problem in some states. Other states dont have reagents. Some dont have infrastructure. The point of a National Strategy is that we need a federal government that coordinates, makes sure all barriers are going away. Tests are going to be local. The bottom line is were not going to get the kinds of tests we need and not every american needs a test. Everybody who needs a test needs to be able to get that test. We are far away from that. Were not going to get there through 50 different state strategies. We need a National Strategy. Dr. Jha, let me ask about the flattening of the curve weve seemed to witness, as Governor Cuomo holds briefings. He says hospitalizations are dropping, but it is a lagging number in terms of where this is headed. Hospitalizations being way down, what does that tell you . I think dr. Fauci said this earlier, and ill amplify. The incredible, hard work americans are doing, staying home i know staying home, having the economy shut is painful but it is working. It is working in new york. It is working in california. It is working in washington state. Its working in ohio. It is working wherever were doing it right. It is painful. By the way, the number of 60,000 deaths and its great, fewer americans dying is always better its more people than died in vietnam. Like, this is still a tragedy. Weve got to stay home and try to get those numbers even lower if we can. All right. Dr. Jha, thank you, as always, for your insights. Joe . Lets go to jim vandehei. Jim, we keep going back to it because every medical expert that we have on, every doctor we have on, says you cant open the economy without proper testing. For some reason, and ill be honest, ive been talking to the white house over the past month, just hammering home testing. You have to get testing done. It is a trillion dollar mistake, to not have this testing done. You look at the story of the failure of this administration. You can go back to february, where the fda went to trumps cdc and said, if youre a private entity, id shut you down. Youre so bad. Days later, the fda gave up on the Trump Administration and said, well allow private companies to test. Birx said 80 of the testing machines were out of use across the nation. She didnt know why. She said she was going to she seemed pretty upset about it and said she was going to check and see why 80 of testing machines were not in use. Then we just heard the good doctor say that, in some cases what was his exact quote were going to reall