Colleagues alicica menendez, jonathan capehart, ayman mohyeldin, symone sanderstownsend, and with us from miami, katie phang. The twice impeached, and now twice indicted donald trump has become the first ex president to Face Criminal Charges from the federal government. Over the next two hours, my colleagues and i, along with some special guests, are going to break down the Justice Departments case against the former commanderinchief. A case that we saw for the first time just yesterday. When the bombshell, 37 count indictment was unsealed. The indictment, which also names the trump aide and valet, walt nauta, as his coconspirator. Outlined criminal charges related to more than 100 classified documents that federal agents recovered from trumps maralago resort last august. Trump faces 31 counts of violating the Espionage Act, through willful retention of classified records. He faces another six counts stemming from his alleged efforts to impede the investigation. Nauta it was also charged with six felonies related to the coverup. In the 44page indictment. Paints a damning picture of the former president , with a Reckless Disregard for the nations most closely held secrets. It cites two examples of trump showing classified, National Security information, information he was no longer entitled to possess. Let alone to share to visitors to his new jersey golf club. In one instance, trump showed a writer, a publisher, and two members of his staff all of whom who had no security clearance, a copy of a plan of attack, that according to a recording, trump himself described as highly confidential. Trump can be heard on that recording, referring to the document as, quote, secret. Trumps careless treatment of the nations most sensitive Security Information is laid out not just in Black And White checked. As photographic evidence. Take a look here. You can see boxes of documents that were taken from the white house that were stored at maralago. Stacked up in ballrooms. And later, a bathroom. You can see a toilet there on the left. In courting to the indictment, this is where nauta came into the picture. He helped move boxes throughout the resort. Just how sensitive was the material in trumps position . Well according to the indictment, the documents trump took, quote, included information regarding defense and weapons capabilities of both the United States and foreign countries. The United States nuclear programs, potential vulnerabilities of the United States, and its allies to Military Attack. And plans for a possible retaliation in response to a foreign attack, and quote. Trump, who is repeatedly denied allegations of mishandling classified documents, is expected to surrender to miami authorities on tuesday. Marking his second arraignment in two months. However, his legal troubles do not appear to be slowing down his campaign. Just hours ago, donald trump vowed that he would continue running for president , even if he were to be convicted. In an interview aboard his plane, trump told politico, quote, ill never leave. Lets bring in my msnbc colleagues who are going to be with me for the next two hours. Alicica menendez, jonathan capehart, ayman mohyeldin, symone sanderstownsend, and with us from miami, katie phang. Let me start with you katie. It because you have the training of a lawyer. While the rest of us have played lawyers for the last 24 hours while we read this indictment. Its actually a pretty good read. There have been recommendations, including from jack smith and from others, to say, read the actual indictment. It tells a story. Its quite a narrative. It tells a story of someone who knew they had documents they were not supposed to have. Who is asked to give those documents back. And then four months did things with those documents, and claimed he had given them back. The story, according to some people, its fairly cut and dry. It absolutely is. This is exactly what we were hoping to receive from special counsel, jack smith. What we call a speaking indictment. That phrase has been used a lot over the last couple of days. Since this indictment was unsealed. However, its important to emphasize the reason why it makes sense to be able to release this type of indictment from special counsel, jack smith. The American Public needed to know the extent, and the depth, that the obstruction took place by donald trump. The efforts that were taken by him to ensure that he was going to be able to keep documents and materials, he knew. Thats the important factor there. Right, ali . He knew he wasnt supposed to keep them. Its in audiotapes. It did messaging. Its in communications with his lawyers. Which footnote, is a very big deal. The fact that communications with his own lawyer are actually in there in Black And White in that indictment. He knew he wasnt supposed to keep them. He kept them anyway. And he enlisted the help of walt nauta to be able to do it. Its a damning indictment. It is one that is going to be a very tough road for his defense team, and frankly, he now has new lawyers to have to deal with it. Its going to be really hard for his defense team to be able to fight this indictment. Theres another fight that is going on, symone, right now donald trump is in north carolina. Hes got a rally. Its his first public set of comments, although he posts on that social media thing of his very frequently. They sent us some advanced notes of what he was going to say. Its unhinged, even by donald trump standards, tonight. Its unhinged. He was in columbus, georgia, a little bit earlier today. With other republicans. Again, who are on the trail, again, very unhinged. Which struck me about what the former president is planning to say tonight, and what he said earlier today. Not to mention the post on his social media site. There was no strategy. After the indictment came down, it was unsealed. Everyone, including donald trump and his lawyers, had an opportunity to see it. To me, as a former strategist, knowing that he has these events coming up this weekend, knowing that folks will be waiting with baited breath to see what exactly donald trump had to say, this was his opportunity to really obviously pre plead his case in the video of public opinion. He did not do that. It is more of what we usually heard. Conspiracy theories. He said this was a weaponization of the department of justice. Right. I think its important that people at home understand that the only reason donald trump was indicted was because he refused to get the boxes back to the National Archives over and over again. Over, and over again. Multiple times. Fbi comes to me onetime to tell me to do something, im going to give it all. Up one time. Can i disagree with my friend symone, i think this is his strategy. His strategy is to deny, to deflect, not actually grapple with the substance of this indictment. To make light of it. One of the things that i was struck by, listening to him onstage, was the tang. Right . The way in which he wants to act as though this is, quote, just a boxes thing. That is in such stark contrast to what we heard from jack smith. Jack smith, laying out what is at stake here. Really making it clear that this case is about our National Security. And saying that america is supposed to set the standard for the rule of law. This isnt just about what is happening here in the United States. Its about our Global Partners watching what we do here. I think you said that because you are good strategist. And you would never do that. You would never do Something Like that. You would never do Something Like this. But i think this is from the trump playbook. Which is you just dont engage with it on the merits, because, if were being honest, how could you . I would add more and more detail to that. You say, deny, deflect, and delay. Its all about delaying the, what will be inevitable. The legal calendar and timetable and clock doesnt comport with the way we want things to move. Right. He knows that. He has exploited that, time and time again throughout his entire life. But he really needs the delay tactic. Because he faces serious jail time with what we just read in that indictment. I think when youre looking at this right now, the thing that strikes me the most to your point is how much the fbi and the doj went out of their way to try and recover these boxes. And what is the most telling for me in the indictment, is the word retention. Its not necessarily about possession. They asked for it back. If they had given them back, there might have been a different outcome. Exactly. I think you have parallel tracks with what happened with mike pence and what happened with donald trump. Not to say that mike pence is any better as a politician, but certainly somebody who was in the possession of classified documents. When they asked him for, he gave it back, he cooperated. He made everything out is disposable available to the doj. They cause the case. Moved on. With donald trump, you had a grand jury request these documents. He, according to the indictment, not only obstructed it, orchestrated the obstruction for his codefendant. By having them conceal the documents. Not cooperating, telling his lawyer not to cooperate. In doing so, the process in how he retained these documents is what discharge is about. We shouldve cited. That people are saying, he had these boxes, hes allowed to have these boxes. Its not about the fact that he got the boxes. Its that he held on to these boxes, even when they told him turn the dam box is over. We know you have them. And he lied. Hey katie, theres been some reporting tonight from Charlie Savage about something you may have understood to be true. When jonathan talks about delay, the one way, i guess there are a few ways in which a defendant can delay. Donald trump has extra ways in which you can delay, because he can say im running for president. Ive got things ive gotta do. A judge may take that very seriously. The judge in manhattan does take that seriously. But it seems like the judge in miami, some were worried that this might be somebody who was appointed by donald trump, might favor donald trump. That judge looks like shes going to stay on the case. Well, shes going to stay on the case for now. Big question was whether or not this was some preliminary assignment to judge, Aileen Cannon, as she was randomly assigned to Donald Trumps case. We all know her very well. She had a very embarrassing run act appointing a special master, in trying to pretty much run on position on behalf of donald trump, previously. In the 11th Circuit Court of appeals said you got it wrong. You got it wrong in the facts. You got it wrong in the law. Doesnt mean the doj cant move to recuse. But recusal is a high standard. Ultimately, she can deny a motion to recuse by the doj. And lets be very honest, lets manage expectations here. Just because you are a Trump Appointed judge doesnt mean end of itself that is grounds for recusal. However, there is some law that is within this 11th circuit. Theres a whole bunch of us that have been talking about this amongst ourselves, in terms of the legal analyst for this network. Weve been thinking, theres a very Good Opportunity for the doj at this point in time to move to recuse Aileen Cannon. But you may want to wait, if youre the doj, to give her the opportunity to step in it. And to see whether or not, one, she doesnt wrong. And so you have the grounds to do it. Or two, maybe shell just say, you know what, i do not want to have problems on this. Case ive already had issues with the chief judge and other members of the 11th circuit. I want to get off this case. Katie phang its alicica menendez. It takes all the lawyers on this network not to specifically name statutes when there are talking about the law. Not that theyve been talking to other lawyers. The other thing i heard about the possibility of moving doj, doj moving to recuse cannon, it would just take time. They know that time is of the essence here. I wonder, katie, the extent to which you believe that is playing out in their calculus . Well, you know, there were a lot of people that were surprised, alicia, when this case was brought here in this particular venue anyway. I have tried multiple cases in that Federal Courthouse. The cases move quickly, why . Because when you are in state court and Circuit Court, when you have a stake or felony, we call that circus court. Its Circuit Court, we call it circus court. When you are in Federal Court, there are some real rules. Real protocols. And real speed at which things get done. Federal judges dont play. Donald trump may try to delay, as jonathan was talking about. Thats definitely a donald trump playbook run. But at the end of the day, the doj could say, i believe in my case. Special counsel jack smith has presented an impeccably detailed indictment. We know he probably has more evidence up his sleeve that we havent even seen yet. So why bother. Why not make a run for it . If you look at a National Page in the indictment, it says, ali, 21 days is what they say, the doj says it is going to take to try and try this case. Thats what . Thats more than three or four business weeks, if you think about it. So if youre the doj, you are already bringing in a very trump friendly backyard. You might as well just try it, and get it over with. Katie, its jonathan. More on this trump delay. Specifically to judge cannon. Talk about the role, and the power she has, in terms of setting the timetables. Setting the schedule. Could she, just as a judge in this case, delay matters that are favorable for donald trump . Yes. So jonathan, thats a very good point. Scheduling orders are entered in all cases in Federal Court. Civil or criminal. In this instance, she can say i cant try this case until exdate. But again, i think if you see Something Like that, that you are going to see her fitting into the narrative that shes actually doing something to put a her thumb on the scales of justice. In favor of donald trump. But there are, lets be frank, you cant have it both ways. If youre going to treat donald trump like every other criminal defendant, because no one else is above the law, including a former president of the United States, then you are going to treat him like any other defend it. Theres other cases that she has in her docket, that she has to deal with. So because of that, you may see a trial date that is into 2024, that becomes uncomfortably close to a president ial election. But at this point, we are just going to have to wait and see wants that Scheduling Order is entered. And we will see a trial date pretty soon. Katie, it is symone. Good to see you. I have a question about what folks should expect on tuesday. I was told by some former federal prosecutors that will look, well be seeing miami, its going to look very similar to what we saw and heard frankly in the new york case. Of Manhattan District Attorney, alvin bragg. In the arraignment of donald trump, in the alvin the Manhattan District Attorney case, that was where we if you read the document, it talks of the transcript. It talks about how there were negotiations happening between the Manhattan District Attorney s office and Donald Trumps seen. They were just waiting to come, they were trying to come to some consensus. They needed the judge to weigh in, they would. Can we expect to see that in the miami case as well . Or is there anything that the federal government would even need to negotiate with when it comes to donald trump and his team . The arraignment, youre right, the arraignment on tuesday is going to be like the one that we saw in manhattan. However, i think that its actually going to be going even faster than what we saw happen in manhattan. You will have donald trump arrive. I did have the opportunity to speak off the record with someone from the department of homeland security, in terms of security measures et cetera. He will, donald trump will enter that courthouse. He will enter a plea, presumably of not guilty. Thats pretty much going to be the extent of that arraignment. The big difference, guys, that i want to highlight for you at this point in time. Is unlike in manhattan where there really wasnt physically the space for donald trump to be able to do a press, or some type of grandstand in front of the courthouse, there is a lot of space in front of this courthouse. Physical space. For him to be able to do a presser. Theres even an opportunity for him to walk, in a very big way, in and out of that courthouse. A sense of some Security Members that are gonna be taken by the marshals, by law enforcement. There may be a bigger scene at this courthouse than we saw in manhattan a few months ago. We are going to get to watch that all on tuesday. Thank you. Coming up next, we are going to break down jack smiths case against donald trump. Our Special Coverage continues here on msnbc. 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