Back on a New York Times article claiming he is part of what appears to be a Republican Shadow Campaign for 2020. About an hour ago pence released a statement saying in part whatever fake news may come our way, our entire team will continue to focus all our efforts to advance the president s agenda and see him reelected in 2020. Any suggestion otherwise is both laughable and absurd. A white house spokeswoman, lindsey walters, fired a warning shot in her statement to the times saying the president is as strong as hes ever been in iowa and every potentially ambitious republican knows that. Meanwhile, jeff flake is urging his party to learn from mistakes it made in 2016. Heres what he told my colleague chuck todd this morning. My concern is, is that populism is a sugar high and once you come off it, its particularly troublesome for the party. And so i wish that we would have been more truthful with the electorate in terms of what we can and what we cannot do in washington. I wish that we as a party would have stood up, for example, when the birtherism thing was going along. A lot of people did stand up, but not enough. Also new today, house intel Ranking Member adam schiff on what Robert MuellersTeam Reportedly is using grand juries in washington, d. C. , and virginia and what all that means for the russia investigations. That wouldnt be taking place if there was really no evidence, no evidentiary basis to move forward. You cant read this means indictments are going to follow, but nonetheless it does mean the investigation is not only being turned off, but moving into a new phase. And heres Kellyanne Conway, counselor to the president , on whether muellers job is in jeopardy. Does the president commit to not firing Robert Mueller . The president has not even discussed that. The president is not discussing firing bob mueller. You have to listen to special counsel, ty cobb, who works in the white house now and said very clearly, george, this week that we will continue to cooperate with bob mueller and his investigation. Just hired the 16th person, many are democratic donors, but well continue to cooperate and comply. Nbcs Kelly Odonnell joining me now from bridgewater, new jersey, right near the president s resort where hes spending the next two weeks. Good sunday to you. We just heard part of a particularly strong response from Vice President mike pence on accusations hes running for president in the Shadow Campaign. What more can you tell us about this . Well, certainly, in republican circles where there has been concern when trump was a candidate and now amplified concern now that hes president a lot of gaming of what would happen in 2020, would there be a republican challenger to the president. Those questions are a delicious part of the political parlor games do give rise to people speculating about the role of someone like mike pence. Mike pence has a longstanding relationship with big donors in the party, he has deep grassroots support from his own time as an elected official before joining the trump team. He continues to have dinners and meetings with people who are influential in the party and some have interpreted that as suggesting he is preparing, being ready to step in to run for president if President Trump is for whatever reason not available to do so. That, of course, is very problematic for a Vice President who very publicly has tried to align himself with the president and to be a good soldier on good days and not so good days. You indicated part of the statement in its very notable theres a lengthy written statement from the Vice President s office, also put out on his social media, knocking this story down. It says in part, todays article in New York Times is disgraceful and offensive to me, my family, and our entire team. The allegations are categorically false and represent the latest attempt by the media to divide this administration. That point there of trying to say theres some split between those loyal to President Trump and those around Vice President pence. There are top aides to pence who have political careers in the Campaign World who say its just not true, so they are pushing back hard on this. It may be a case where there are people who are in the periphery have been musing about these things. It certainly raised the temperature today for those around the Vice President. A part of the Approval Rating question for the president is something that is dogging the administration because it is very low for this point in an administration. Kellyanne conway, counselor to the president , was talking about what the base for President Trump wants to see him do on television this morning. His Approval Rating among republicans and conservative trump voters is down slightly. It needs to go up. They are telling him just enact your program. Dont worry about a congress that isnt supporting legislation to get big ticket items done, and dont worry about all the distractions and diversions and discouragement that others who are trying to throw logs in your path are throwing your way. Focus on the agenda. And so in acknowledgment there that the numbers are not what the administration would like to see and a prescription from his former campaign manager, now counselor to the president. Alex . Kelly odonnell, thank you so much from bridgewater, new jersey. Lets bring in amy parnes. Ladies, good sunday to you both. Amy with you here first. Surprised at all by the aggressive response from the Vice President to that New York Times story that hes positioning himself for 2020 and do you think he was prompted to send out that reaction . Well, he has to say that, alec. Thats why you saw him do that. He has to come out, no, no, no, theres no divide in this administration. We are all together on good days and bad days. And that would be problematic for him internally if he was out there kind of pushing that narrative. But i think this report is pretty true that, you know, he and other people, i think, are kind of testing the waters, and i think a lot of donors in particular, people who havent been satisfied with the way President Trump has been conducting business are kind of looking to him and saying, okay, what if, and kind of playing those parlor games. And i think thats a typical washington kind of story. Lexi, why feel even the need to respond to a speculative article that could be considered sort of an inside the beltway parlor game . Do you think anyone at this point cares about 2020 . I dont think they are thinking about 2020 too much yet, but i think it speaks to the loyalty issue within the white house. Trump has always valued loyalty and weve seen hes fired people when he perceived they are not loyal to him, so i think in order to reassure trump and the base voters that, you know, pence is still loyal to trump, he has to release a statement. Otherwise it looks like the white house is in disarray if the Vice President is out campaigning quietly to sort of usurp President Trump in 2020. Can i ask you, alexi, given that donald trump has always demanded loyalty, we know his newly installed white house chief of staff had a public message to the white house employees saying heres the way its going to go down, country first, the president second, and self third. Is that conflicting, those two top positions with what you believe has sort of been the m. O. Within the white house before now . Well, donald trump has certainly put himself first and those who are loyal to him first throughout his presidency so far. And i think the people are seeing that, right . Yesterday axios was given a poll that showed in his First Six Months his support on his base is dangerously low. And this should speak to him and his administration and goes to the New York Times report that republicans who are quietly exploring this, you know, 2020 run to replace trump if he doesnt seek reelection. So, amie, lets take a listen to jeff flake today, republican from arizona, of course, and one of the president s most vocal critics. Here it is. To be a conservative isnt just to follow conservative principles in terms of limited government, economic freedom, free trade, but it is conservative in terms of comportment and behavior. Referring to our colleagues across the aisle as losers or clowns is just not the direction to go if we are going to solve the problems in a conservative way that we need to. So ill stand up every time to the president when hes doing things that i dont think he should be doing. Amie, why do you think hes so aggressively against trump, besides the fact he is up for reelection next year. Do you think this is principle or is it politics . I think its a little bit of both. Ive been hearing a lot from a lot of different people like flaik who have been telling me the same kind of thing, like, they are not entirely happy with the way the administration is running things, the way things are going, what the president is saying, and i think a lot of people will follow in his footsteps and youll hear a lot of people become more vocal, particularly if the russia investigation is looming, if trump is still using twitter as his megafohphone and saying thi the party doesnt see as particularly helpful down the road in 2018 and then in 2020. I think this is just the first of many people to come forward and, you know, be vocal and vocalize whats happening behind the scenes and what people are really thinking behind the scenes. This kind of position, how much do you think this has to do with a cascade of tough numbers for the president . Quinnipiac poll, 54 embarrassed hes president , 62 saying hes not honest, 71 saying hes not levelheaded. How and will he ever turn this around . Well, i think what weve seen and weve recorded at axios is john kelly as chief of staff is trying to rein in President Trump in various ways. Tomorrow is day 200. He hasnt passed any major legislation. He continues to tweet these bombastic, bullish things that his voters are really unhappy about, but now with john kelly as chief of staff, we see hes trying to keep trump on message. Hes even trying to offer him alternative ways of wording his tweets, which i think is really fascinating. But as my boss, mike allen, used to say, the one person thats not going to change in the white house is the 70yearold billionaire whose name is on all the buildings. Im not sure if we can actually expect him to change, but john kelly is trying to help him. All right. We heard congressman adam schiff a few moments ago telling the news means its going into a new phase. What should we expect to happen in this next phase . Well, its particularly interesting this week that youre seeing lots of things happen on the russia investigation and youre seeing mueller asking for documents from the white house. Thats a first. So the narrative, the entire russia narrative that looms over the white house is problematic for them and i think were going to continue to see movement here on various fronts, and this is just the latest news thats coming out. So, alexi, we heard Kellyanne Conway sidestepping the question of whether the president would commit to not firing mueller. She did not answer that directly. What are you hearing from inside the white house . How worried are they about the latest developments in the probe and is there any way to gauge how much oxygen this is taking from the work of the administration . So, its not surprising that mueller has a grand jury. We saw this with whitewater, watergate. Its common for that to happen, but if youre in trump world, youre probably freaking out because this is getting closer to trumps family now. Its focusing on trump jr. Its focusing on his immediate circle, and thats a big deal. I think it will sort of distract from moving forward on other legislation like tax reform or whatever they are planning on doing with health care. I think it is concerning. But were also hearing that those close to trump who are providing Legal Counsel have told him it would be political malpractice and counterproductive to fire Robert Mueller. So we cant actually predict what trump will do in the end, but we are told hes being advised not to fire bob mueller, so hopefully thats what actually ends up happening. All right, ladies, thank you so much. Thank you. Speaking of that grand jury, im going to ask a former Legal Counsel to a president whether the president s approach to the Mueller Investigation could backfire on him. Plus its a war zone out there. 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I think it is a significant development, not particularly unexpected. Youre right, you cant read indictments are going to follow, but nonetheless it means the investigation is not only being turned off, but its moving to a new phase. Ranking democrat, congressman adam schiff on the mueller teams use of grand injuries in the russia investigation. Joining me right now is a law professor at George Mason University and former associate council to george w. Bush. Id like to hear your reaction on what the congressman just said. Yeah, thanks, alex. I served with congressman schiff when he was on the committee, i was on the staff. And hes right the investigation is moving forward, but this is the very beginning as he sort of mentioned. This is a standard investigative technique to use a grand jury to get information. Were a long way from indictments, if those ever even come, and its really just a matter of beginning the investigation, moving the ball down the road. So in terms of the logistics, the virginia grapd jury wnd jur panel a full year ago. Does that surprise you, were talking to grand injuries that have already been put in place in d. C. And virginia . The virginia grand jury was looking to specific things like the Flynn Investigation and the like. And i think i think i think were about to, you know, i think they are moving forward on that part and then the d. C. Grand jury is looking specifically into, i think, the issue that, you know, fbi director mueller is now there to talk about. And is looking into. The overall russia matter. Hes taken over the flynn piece and the other piece hes looking at specifically. Good cover, by the way. I think someone was improperly speaking in your ear, sorry if that may have happened. Harvard professor said mueller gets this tactical advantage. Do you agree with that . I mean, can the location of a grand jury be strategic . You know, i dont think so. Look, director mueller is a was a u. S. Attorney in d. C. , he knows d. C. Grand juries, so he knows the courtroom and that may be a reason to do it. I doubt the ethic makeup is the goal here. What youre looking for is an investigative tool to move the investigation forward and thats whats going on here. What about the president , whos been taking two public positions on the russia investigation. Lawyers say the white house is cooperating fully, then the president tweets and says the russia investigation is a witch hunt and a hoax. Is that strategic on his part . I think the president has a reason to be upset. Hes unhappy this investigation may undermine his overall presidency and ability to move his agenda forward. On the other side, though, by continuing to talk about the russia investigation, its hard for him because its whats in the news every day. If i were in the white house and i were the new communications director, id say, look, lets move off of russia. Anybody that wants to talk about russia, talk to bob mueller. Were here to talk about tax reform, immigration, whatever issues the president wants to talk about. He should talk about that, rather than worrying about the russia thing which is going to run its own course over the next year or two. What about the repo