Alex Witt hosts coverage of national and international news, including breaking stories. His son to cancel the meeting. He did not tell the fbi about the meeting. And if anything, he further encouraged and emboldened the russians to hack. Because he went out just about a month and a half after the meeting and said, russia if youre listening which is two years ago from today as you pointed out you would be rewarded for hacking Hillary Clintons emails. Lets go to Kelly Oconnell in new jersey also joining us u. S. Congressman Danny Heck Of Washington and glenn kushner. First to you, kelly in berkeley heights, new jersey not too far where the president is spending the weekend at the bedminster resort. I want to talk about the ten different ways weve counted that the president has refused to answer questions on camera regarding cohen in that 2016 Trump Tower Meeting in the month of june. Are we hearing any feedback from
the white house on this . And all of this Radio Silence on this matter, how unusual is it . Well, alex, white house officials are directing us to the president s outside counsel, saying any questions relating to that look to someone like Rudy Giuliani. And we have, weve seen how Rudy Giuliani has gone from praising Michael Cohen as a trusted ally of the president and confidant and employee over a number of years now saying hes been untrustworthy, in fact, lying all of his life is one of the quotes attributed to Rudy Giuliani which certainly begs the question why would the president rely so heavily on someone they now claim to be a liar. When it comes to the white house, they are not speaking about this. The president is on the record in a few instances over the last year saying he knew nothing about it. Now that the information has come forward that cohen would be willing to say to authorities that he has belief that President Trump, then candidate trump, was informed in advance
of the meeting with russian individuals that came to trump tower. So at this point, it makes it, the prime question you want to ask the president , theres this despairty. Where is the truth. So, weve counted a number of instances where the president has been in the company of rosters. Youve seen some of them play out on tv. I asked questions at the airport yesterday, for example when i was playing the Pool Reporter acting on behalf of all of the networks. Earlier in the week some of our other cliegs did as well and the president has declined to answer those. He did respond using twitter where he said he did not know about the meeting with his son in advance. And claims this is cohen trying to offer something up to reduce the burden he may face on the case that involves hip. Hes under investigation in the Southern District of new york, on issues that, at least from what weve been told by prosecutors paperwork, deal with his personal business dealings. And not necessarily directly tied to the president with the exception of the area of potential Campaign Finance violations. So, to get back to the heart of
your question, the president didnt want to speak about it on camera. Didnt so on twitter and his associates are saying please call the outside lawyers. Alex. Hey, kelly, can i ask you about the photo from politico playbook yesterday. Can you describe what were seeing here . By the way congressman heck is sitting on the set and laughing as well. Bob mueller, Donald Junior, i put it out on social media with the caption, awkward. You can tell us what is happening here . Well, its really an extraordinary moment that in one frame it tells you a lot of what is happening in washington politics and culture. That gate one ive traveled many times, 35x at Reagan National airport. And it is a gate that has people waiting for a number of flights. So its important to say they probably werent heading to the exact destination. We just dont know. You there have Robert Mueller seated reviewing something in the frame. Upper righthand corner you see donald trump, jr. And what appear to be two Secret Service agents. He does get Secret Service protection. And Robert Mueller does get protected in his role. Everyone can add a caption to it, what must they be thinking . Clearly, people were aware they were in the same frame. Were told there was no visible interaction but what a memorable photo that captures what is in both of these mens lives right now. A Focus On Mueller from the trump side and a Focus On Trump from the mueller side. Alex. Thank you for the report. Denny heck of washington, a he be of the house intelligence committee. You laughed at that picture. Right, right. Didnt we all. I have a Dialogue Bubble that i have in my head when i look at that photo, Robert Mueller is saying i will adhere to the highest levels of professionalism and not acknowledge him. And donald trump, jr. Is saying,
oh, my god, im afraid i got to get away from this. As kelly o. , a lot of different captions to that mine was just awkward. Lets talk about the 2016 Trump Tower Meeting in the month of june and the allegations that Michael Cohen is putting out there saying, look, donald trump, our president , then candidate, knew in advance about this meeting. Right. Both cohen and donald trump, jr. Have testified before your committee. I know you cant confirm or deny. You know i cant. And wont as well. But what are your thoughts on this . So, i think the walls are closing in. I said that to you, i think, a week or so ago. This is yet another Proof Positive that the investigation is getting closer and closer in many regards. The fact of the matter is this is Donald Trumps worst nightmare, its not just this revelation or allegation because its yet to be corroborated but its the fact there are 99 additional tapes into the one that was revealed this week. So, i think what is of Material Significa significance, here, alex, weve moved from the area to conspiracy. With the meeting hiding in plain sight when he admonished the russians to go ahead and get Hillary Clintons emails. Now with prior knowledge and intent, were now beginning to inch into the territory of conspiracy. And whats the difference . Well, collusion isnt a federal crime. Conspiracy is. Who do you think has more credibility right now, is it Michael Cohen or is it donald trump . Well, i wouldnt want to have to rely on the credibility of either of them. But im hardpressed to understand why at this point mr. Cohen would be lying. For me, the question is always, where are the incentives for behavior. And i dont see any incentive from mr. Cohen at this stage of this whole sordid affair to be
lying. In that regard i guess i would mutt more credence in what it is he is saying. Rudy giuliani had some thoughts. Not surprising in what this all means. Lets take a listen to what he said. I expected Something Like this from cohen. Hes been lying all week. Hes been lying for years. I dont see he has a credibility. If you had a trial, youd say which one do you want to pick, the first lie, a second lie or some new lie . Theres nobody that knows him who hasnt warned him if hes backed against the wall hell lie like crazy because he lied all his life. So interesting to what was being said a couple weeks ago. You impaired them when giuliani and the president saying that cohen is such a great guy. What changed . It seems to me the pattern that is discernible, the president has a habit of hiring lawyers that lie on his behalf. But the implication being
what lets say Michael Cohen has done that in the past. And Rudy Giuliani is doing it now. Or he was doing it earlier. And lets consider the possibility that Michael Cohen decides not to continue lying, if that is what he has done in the past. So, what are you taking away from that, the tenor of this relationship between these two, mostly trump and cohen . Well, its estranged, right . Theyre completely split apart. And Michael Cohen has decided to come clean. I think it was on your program that i once posited what would come into play would be the cohen index which is how many years would Michael Cohen be facing before he decided to come and tell the truth. I believe did you say that. I have the number at somewhere between 10 and 15. My guess is Splomehow Interacti with the u. S. Attorneys office that hes come front and center and facetoface with the fact thats what he has to endure and as a consequence, hes coming
clean. What about the prospect of Robert Mueller now reportedly wanting to look at the president s tweets as part of the investigation. To what end how can tweets be used against the president or at least to gather information from mueller . Words matter. I think what hes plumbing here is the prospect of Obstruction Of Justice but i want to put it in perspective to help viewers understand, i think what it is were really facing here in the near future. I deduce from raeding Between The Lines of what whether mueller is focusing on right now is Obstruction Of Justice. I suggest if he doesnt come out with anything during the month of august that hes going to wait until after the general election because he will respect the fbis traditional practice of not trying to do something in the middle of a campaign. The truth is Obstruction Of Justice is, of course, only one of the risks that President Trump faces. He has the conspiracy with the russians to interfere with the election which is a violation of
federal crime. And underneath it all, what weve all wondered about and try to get at the truth at, and that is, the issue of the flow of the money between him and the russians dating back some time. And whether or not racketeering or bank fraud or any number of crimes was committed. That brings mean to mike pompeo who testified before the Senate Judiciary committee. And his query which will come into play, with what went on between the president and Vladimir Putin. Lets take a listen. Just to ask a simple question i just cant i want my seven minutes, mr. Secretary. Did he tell you what happened in that two hours . Yes, the predicate implied there was something about having a oneonone meeting. I completely disagree. I didnt ask you a predicate, did he tell you i had a number of
conversations about what transpired in the meeting. I was also in the meeting when he and president pruiutin and lavrov, i think i have a complete understanding. Did you speak to the translators at that meeting . No, i havent. First of all, your thoughts on this . And do you have any certainty that our Secretary Of State has more information that went on in that meeting which we have all gotten from published reports or those who have spoken about it . None whatsoever. I dont have much confidence that he does have 100 readout of what went on in that meeting. The truth of the matter while hes not is improper per se and also completely unconventional and normshattering especially in the context of where we are in relationship with russia. If the president had want edSecretary Of State pompeo to have a 100 readout of that meeting he would have had him in that meeting. What is your reaction for President Putin inviting President Trump to continue the discussions . Is that a oneway ticket . Does that shift the balance, is it a concern to you . If it were to take place, do you think it should happen in washington . Or do you think it should happen at all . I became very concerned if not disturbed over the state of our relations with russia quite some time ago. And the prospect of the president going to moscow to frankly elevate the profile of President Putin and promises who knows what yet again and continue in what seems to be his unrelenting campaign in support of his automatcrat. And he arrests people in his own country, alex, because he doesnt want anybody to know the truth. He murders people who are political centers. Theres no way we should lend legitimacy to this mans reign. In fact are there areas that would be Productsi Iproductive collaborate on like a Cyber Security agreement . Sure. But this is not the way to undertake it. He has to be held on account the the president should live up to the Sanction Bill which passed overwhelmingly in the United States congress and hold him accountable and then have the conversations. Representative denny heck, its very happy. Happy birthday to maureen. I wasnt supposed to stay anything, but im not on the intelligence committee. Gauging on how other peoples business and President Trumps private business could be at odds wait for it the
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d. C. Hotel to go forward. Joining me now, glenn kirschner, former prosecutor. The lawsuit accuses the president of benefitting improperly when officials stay at his hotel just walks away from the white house. Its the first time that a judge has applied the structure of the emoluments clause. Tell me why its significant . Alex, its significant for a couple of reasons. The one, the most obvious one, we need to know when the president in conducting his business both in the United States and Around The World is actually acting financially and benefitting from the fact that he owns these properties, again, in america and Around The World. The second thing that is significant, a civil proceeding is pretty dramatic from a criminal prosecution. Answer it and its going to give the
unprecedented scrutiny to the president s business dealings Around The World. It probably would have taken almost heroic efforts to put all of these properties or assets in blind trusts so that the president was not actually personally been and his family was not personally benefitting. And i havent seen any indication that that was done. And as Pete Williams reporting has shown us, i think this is exactly why the judge has allowed these suits to go forward and has denied the motion to dismiss that was filed by the department of justice, on the president s behalf. Okay. Switching gears here. Of course, sources telling nbc news that Michael Cohen is willing to tell that the president knew in advance of the june 2016 Trump Tower Meeting . Did you see this coming. I would say i probably did see it coming. And heres why, we have now heard reporting that Michael Cohen can provide information to the government that President Trump knew about the trump tower
meeting in advance. The reason i think we did see this coming is because, when you look at the timetable of, first of all, the email string that basically don junior offered. He had to get in front of it, because he knew that news was about to break. Lets look at that email string for a minute. The email string itself says things like, hey, you know what, russia wants donald trump to be elected. And the russian government is in Donald Trumps corner. And the russian government can provide incriminating information about hillary clinton. Now what does Donald Junior do with that information . If he didnt know before that time, that russia wanted his father to be elected president , human nature tells us, he would have sprinted to his fathers office. And said, dad, dad, great news. Rus