Here is Rudy Giuliani, President Trumps attorney in an interview this morning. We know of Something Like 183 unique conversations. That are on tape. One involving the president. There are 12 others, maybe 11 or 12 others out of 183 in which the president is discussed at any length by cohen, mostly with reporters. All clearly corroborating what the president has said in detail on many of those tweets. He didnt know about the payments to either one. He only found out later. Cohen made them not for the kpa campaign. Alex Witt hosts coverage of national and international news, including breaking stories. Hes been saying that for a few days. Hes been backtracking from Last Night On Whether The Cohen Tape was doctored. There is way to define this strategy from Rudy Giuliani or does it make sense to you. How can anybody know the truth here. I think its baffling. A lot of observers have expressed concern over the strategy. Jay has gone on the record saying ta Rudy Giuliani is doing the president a disservice with his strategy. Hes 100 damaging the case for the president. The thing i have found the most disturbing about Rudy Giulianis remarks is his assertion where he said that the president wouldnt need to testify before mueller because hes already laid out his entire defense very clearly in tweets. It is really baffling strategy. It seems to kind of lurch like some degree the way the
president does from news story to news story. Its always reactive. Its never proactive and hostilely defensive. To you john, if you look at lanny davis, he has been battling back, is there way to gauge who is winning this war of words or is this such a back and forth and rapid change turn around that you just can understand get footing on it. You have to understand the law and about how lawyers operate inside the courtroom and outside the courtroom. You have two high Profile Lawyers who know as much about kbleed as they do about the courts. They know how to communicate. As kelly said in the opening this is all getting very confusing. Theres all sorts of Information Flying in all sorts of information. Thats a strategy. He had three basic themes as best i can tell. Michael cohen is despicable. We dont like him anymore. Number two Michael Cohen is unarmed. He doesnt have anything. We have got all these tapes but theres really nothing there. Hes got an agenda that nobody should trust. Rudy giuliani is throwing all that out. I started as a young reporter covering the courts. They are throwing out a half dozen Different Reasons why his client is innocent, you should really focus in on that case because theres a pretty good chance that lawyer is trying to confuse you and make you look in a lot of Different Directions rather than recognize theres something really serious going on here. I think lanny davis is winning because Rudy Giuliani is trying too hard. Okay. Draug from some deep background
your front. Listen more to Rudy Giuliani. We have negotiations going on with them. We have an out standing offer to them. They havent responded in about a week to ten days. I dont hold that against them. They have a lot going on like we do. What does that offer look like . I cant tell you except theres a sort of area of questioning and a group of restrictions on it that we could live with. This is narrow to the russia probe and not obstruction of justice . It relates to the Russia Collusion thing which we think theres no evidence and the president didnt do anything wrong. We dont have much of a problem. The Obstruction Thing is more a question of we dont see the legal basis for a president obstructing by taking an action and firing someone that he had
every right to fire and about ten good reasons to fire. We dont just acknowledge it. We might consider a few questions in that area also. Jay, do you pick up anything on where the strategy stands from what Rudy Giuliani said there and do we know where an interview with the president stands right now . Were only hearing from one side because mueller side of the investigation has remained silent as a vault. They havent leaked anything throughout this entire process. All the information comes from the president s side. Mostly from Rudy Giuliani. The question whether or not were going to see the president testify, i think he says it remains an open question. Its an interesting its back on the table because a few weeks ago Rudy Giuliani said its off the table. They will not allow the president to be interviewed. Now it seems they have changed their minds. They say were talking about potentially having an interview here. I think thats what mueller is
always said to wrap up his case. He said that the final piece of this would be the president himself speaking about to whatever parts of the investigations they would like to hear from the president about whether its obstruction of justice or collusion. The big question is timing. If you get that before the elections, do you then mover forward and then risk being accused of politicizing so close to an election this issue. Do you wait until after the elections. In general their own candidates weaknesses in generic polling and they are worried about elections. This is Donald TrumpsWorst Nightmare because its not just this revelation or this allegation because its yet to be corroborated but the fact there are 99 additional tapes into the one that was revealed this week. I think what is material significance is we have moved from the territory of collusion into the potential territory of conspiracy. Do you sense the walls are closing in at all . I think they had to feel that way when it became clear that Michael Cohen was shifting his stance, his position as Rudy Giuliani suggested. I think we ought to pause and take in that just in day from what the congressman is saying
and what Rudy Giuliani is saying, it sounds like number of tapes has doubled. It was 100 and then it went to 183. What i think were looking at is situation where we may not know how much is there but the suggestion is that a lot is there. As more comes forward, you have more pressure on the president. We are moving so rapidly to one of the most important midterm elections in modern american history. One that could define questions of accountability perhaps even impeachment. In the president rejects a request for him to sit down, doesnt see through these
negotiations and that hits sometimes mid fall, i think it becomes a huge issue in our politics and one that i dont think Rudy Giuliani will be able to manage. It to get to this given im talking to two well respected journalists here. New tweet from the president about a meeting with the publisher of the New York Times. They talked about fake news and the enemy of the press. This is the response here. Its part of his statement saying that President Trump called for the meeting. He implored the president to stop attacking the media in the manner he has. What is your main take away. He says you have criticize us but the broader picture here. Your take away, jay. Hes right. If you look at Freedom Houses Annual Report on attacks against the media from last year, they are up enormously across the board. You see a lot of strong armed nations, russia or china where
you dont have enormous amount of Freedom Of Press to begin with really latching onto this argument of fake news. People are making things up and following the sort of lead of donald trump terrifyingly and using this as an excuse to lock away journalist, put them in prison and really prosecute them and in some cases kill them. Ir i think that trend is worrisome. Last word to you on this, john. What were getting perspective is the reality of Donald Trumps relationship with the press. You can have a combative relationship. You can call us out. You can disagree with us. Thats not the relationship thats developed here. Donald trump has a dismissive
relationship with the press. Hes saying dont trust it. Dont believe it. Ignore it. That shuts the conversation down. Thats a very dangerous thing in any democracy to tell the great mass of people they Shoupt Lold Look at the facts. Good to see both you have. What does President Trumps lawyer means when he says obstruction by tweet . Your hair is so soft did you use head and shoulders two in one . I did mom. Wanna try it . Yes. It intensely moisturizes your hair and scalp and keeps you flake free. Manolo . Look at my soft hair. I should be in the shot now too. Try head and shoulders two in one. Booking a flight doesnt have to be expensive. Just go to priceline. Its the best place to book a flight a few days before my trip and still save up to 40 . Just tap and go. For the best savings on flights, go to priceline. Obstruction by tweet is not something that i think works real well. Generally, obstruction is secret. Its corrupt. You dont want the evidence out in the public so it can be used against you. Ive looked at those tweets and they dont amount to anything. The man complaining about an unfair investigation. He has a First Amendment right to do that. I dont think theres anything there that gets you beyond the First Amendment. Rudy giuliani there opining on the New York Times report that special Counsel Robert Mueller is examining the tweets in a wide ranging obstruction inquiry. Mueller and his team pretty savvy guy there. They wouldnt be examining. I think Rudy Giuliani is playing a defense attorney game. What mueller and his team aring loog for instead is t are looking for is the pattern. It explains the Corrupt Intent necessary to prove the counsel. Thats the criminal law case. You have to show bad intent, Corrupt Intent. The tweets by demonstrating pressure being put on comey, pressure on Jeff Sessions trying to drive him to resign, those are the kinds of things that could want demonstrate the Corrupt Intent. Listen to what Rudy Giulianisaid about this back and forth on who has been violating Attorney Client privilege. Says that trumps former attorney has done so by speaking out. You have lanny davis says thats not the problem. Who is correct here . With regard to the Tape Recording that came out recently, it was President Trumps team that waived the impressive leprivilege to that i think it was at that point it became fair game. Some ask why would he waive the privilege with regard to that conversation. Theres speculation the judge who is reviewing the material was prepared the rule it fell under the Crime Fraud Exception to the attorneyclient impressiprivilege and going to turn it over and make that finding. That Finding Sou Ining could be damaging if that speculation is true. Its not every conversation. Its only conversations that were for the purpose of seeking legal advice and outside of that Crime Fraud Exception. The fact that everybody is out there talking about it on cable news or giving interviews is there any client attorney impressiprivilege to this left . I think there is. My guess is that theres a real wide range of matters between cohen and trump that will continue to be protected. He was his lawyer for 17 years regarding this released conversation about the payment, i think its waived as to that and anything on that subject matter. Theres lots of other thinks that cohen and trump have discussed over the years that would still be protected by the privilege. Whats going on with this, all these tapes and how they relate to the russia
investigation . Is there an indication that legally speaking the walls are closing in on the president . I think so. I dont know how they relate to russia. It depends on whats the content of the tapes. In light of michael choenohens position, it seems possible theres relevance to Whats Going On with russia. This case against Michael Cohen, the investigation has been assigned to a different prosecution to look there. My guess is that focus will be on financial crimes, these pay out, Campaign Finance violations but they have the ability to share any information they find in that investigation. Very often what you see is when someone faces criminal exposure. Fr for example, Michael Cohen, they may want to reduce their potential exposure and offer to
volunteer information they know about other subjects. Lets move to the lawsuit over the trump hotel and the president Violating Emoluments clauses. Foreign entipties have used this hotel as a place to try to curry favor. The constitution has two different places where it talks about emoluments. Theres one that talks about emoluments from foreign governments. That means some sort of benefit payment profit advantage. Theres another part that talks about other emoluments from domestic sources. The president gets a salary. That gets set and it shouldnt be changed during his duration. The idea is if hes accepti ini benefits you might request whether hes acting in the best interest of the country or in the interest of whoever is paying him that money. With regard to the trump hotel he is receiving lots of benefits by hosting things there. Having guests stay there. When he said he would remove himself from the daytoday operation of the trump organization, he did that but he has not divested himself from the profits. At some point because this lawsuit is proceeding, its really perhaps teeing up this showdown between President Trump will have to choose. Does he want to stay president or continue to profit from his private investments. Sg thank y thank you very much. What prosecutors could be looking for. Heres a trip tip when you Search Hotels on tripadvisor. Enter your destination and the dates of your stay. Tripadvisor searches over 200 booking sites. To find the best deal on the right hotel for you. Tripadvisor. Some of the most prominent republican donors in the country with pretty strong words against the president s policy. Reacting to the president s latest controversial trade policies, koch executive said they are doing long term damage to the country. Joining me now with more nbc reporter leane caldwell. Set the scene. Did you get a sense that the president is losing support within this group . Hey, alex. This group is never fully gotten behind the president. They sat on the sidelines in the 2016 campaign once donald trump became the nominee. They tried to give him the benefit of the doubt after he was elected. Now, 18 months, almost two years into his tenure, were seeing marked shift among the tone of this network. These are libertarian minded
conservatives. These donors that come to this retreat, theres about 500 of them, they have the donate about 100,000 per year to get wealth influential people that are here. Its shifting. They are not only concerned about tone of the president. One of the executives said he has divisiveness is doing long term damage to the country but also his policies as well. They are frustrated with trade and tariffs. They say that those also are doing long term damage to the economy. They oppose government spending. The 1. 3 trillion Dollar Spending Bill that was passed earlier this year. Family separate at the border. They call it abhorrent. They say its a horrible policy and doesnt reflect the ideals of this country. They want the dreamers to get
path to citizenship. They are criticizing the gop heads in each house of congress. Here we are 100 days out. Do you think this kind of divisiveness and their frustration with it will have an affect in the impact and lead up to the election in november . They are talking about how they want to work with democrats. They are disappointed with members of the Republican Party who arent standing up to the president on some of these key issues. Then again they are spending tens of millions of dollars to elect republicans and to be democrats in some of these most Vulnerable Senate seats. They are still why talking in bipartisan approach, they still want republicans who reflect their interests to be elected to congress. All right. Thank you so much for that. As the war of words heat up, the president of what the president knew about his sons meeting of the 2016 campaign and when the president knew it. Once again front and accept sce Rudy Giuliani appeared. The reason he may not have to testify is he laid out his defense. Hes made it clear he didnt know about the meeting before hand. You talking about the trump Power Meeting that michael doe hen sa cohen said the president did know about. Michael cohen is the guy that taped him without telling him. I dont know how you can believe him. Big welcome back to the broadcast for you. Plausi