I say to him, be like john mccain, the way he behaves, the way he serves his country, the way he conducts himself in public service. I want my boy to be like him. I dont want him to be like President Trump. Senator bob kerrey, i know we are talking about john mccain and the country should be talking about him. But thank you as well for your heroism and the work you did in protecting this country both overseas and in congress. Middle east tensions are rapidly escalating. Palestinian protesters continue to clash with israelis for the seventh consecutive we can at the border of the gaza strip. May 15th is the day after israels Declaration Of Independence and subsequent war in 1948 in which hundreds of thousands of palestinians were forced from their lands. Fuelling more of the unrest is the of mo of the u. S. Embassy to jerusalem, which is scheduled for monday, the same day as
israels 70th anniversary celebrations. Nearly an protesters have been killed by live israeli fire since the violence broke out on march 30th. At the same time, more violence between israel and iran in syria is raising fears of a possible war. It all comes the same week that donald trump officially pulled the plug on americas participation in the iran nuclear deal. I want to talk more about the Unrest Unraveling in the middle east with someone who helped write the iran nuclear deal. Joining me now, Nuclear Physicist earnest moniz. Sir, thank you for being with us. We appreciate this. I dont know how many ways we can underscore this. There are reasons people may not like iran. And there are valid reasons for which people may be frustrated with irans perform an as a regional neighbor in the middle east. But nuclear deal in part authored by people like yourself was done to achieve some
specific ends. And most people agree was achieving those end. Can you talk to me about that . Absolutely. First of all, let me make clear you can certainly count me among those who are shall we say are concerned about irans behavior with hezbollah, in syria, yemen, human rights, missiles, and the like. As you said, ali, this agreement was it was long known as it was being negotiated, it was focusing on Nuclear Weapons, making sure that everyone, we and irans neighbors, our Friends Allies in that region, would verifiably understand that they had no nuclear weapon, even as we then push back on all of those other behaviors that we obviously dont like. I would just maybe offer one analogy going back to president reagan when he negotiated with the soviet union on nuclear arms control. He focused on Nuclear Weapons as an existential issue even as we
had many, many other disputes with the so yet union. You know, its interesting, because Donald Trumps rhetoric about this is working with some people. I was speaking to somebody the other day who says irans compliance with the aspects of this nuclear deal having to do with production of Nuclear Materials, the jury is still out on that. I want to be clear you made the statement after we made the announcement of pulling out of the deal as International Inspectors who have been on the ground every day since the deal was confirmed the iranians have complied. Lets be clear. Lets be on the record. You are here. The jury is not out on whether or not iran was living up to its end of the deal as it related to Nuclear Materials . Thats correct. Everyone says that, including the president s Cabinet Members. So thats very important. Secondly, i want to emphasize the compliance is not just in terms of how Nuclear Materialsare handled. But very importantly again, Secretary Mat Nis the congress two weeks ago talked about how the agreement put forward a probust verification regime. Iran is also complying in allowing the kinds of inspections that occur not only at the places that they have announced Nuclear Activity but also at other places that the iaea has asked to go to. And thats very, very critical. And that i want to emphasize does not, to use the popular word, sunset. We have forever the ability of the International Inspectors, presumably, often with guidance from intelligence sources in the United States, israel, and other countries, that if there is suspect activity the iaea has access and has access in a time period for which no other country in the world is subject. Besides iran. Does not participating in this deal make it easier or harder to achieve the more
complicated aims in the reej, including limiting irans activity in syria, in yemen, with hezbollah, as you have said . Does it make it easier or harder . I think over time it will make it harder. I think there is a strategic error. And well see how the deal goes. But you know, the europeans have made it clear. Russia has made it clear and iran at least for the moment has said it will continue to comply with the agreement. But you know, history would say that without the United States engagement that may be very hard to sustain over the long term. And now what happens if we have lost that verification regime. Right. If the International Community does not have the confidence in iran not rejuvenating its Weapons Program . You start pull that thread, and its not very pretty in terms of regional instability. Earnest moniz, the former Secretary Of Energy serving under president obama who helped write the iran nuclear deal. Mr. Secretary thank you for being with us. Thank you. With me live from gaza, matt bradley, msnbc News Correspond on theent. These demonstrations will be taking place every friday. They will continue at least until may 15th but thing got really hot today. Reporter thats right we had another day of violence. We saw two journalists badly injured by gunfire on the israeli side here on the gaza strip side. I was talking to people. There is a lot of anger out there. There are protesters who are burning tires. They are Lofting Kites they have set on fire that have been wafting over to the israeli side and setting agricultural fields on fire on the israeli side. This is just a taste, kind of a preview of what we can expect come monday and news. Thats when we are going to see this Great March Of Return thats been going every friday for the last two weeks now turn into a big process. Organizers i spoke to today said they are expecting hundreds had of thousands of people that will rival the violent deadly protest that killed more than 40 people back on march 30th. We can expect to see a lot more violence here. One thin thats interesting, hamas while it has quite a bit of control how the protests are going. The genesis this idea, the genesis of the movement doesnt come from hamas. It comes from ingroups here in the gaza strip. They are hoping it stays that way. They are hoping that hamas which has a Stronghold On Civic Life here that they stay somewhat independent that they are able to exercise protests against the israelis without being under the thumb of hamas. When you go out there, you can see that, there are no hamas flags. Just palestinian flags in the field out there facing israel. We will watch on monday when the u. S. Embassy opens in jerusalem. Matt bradley in gaza for us. At t issued a mea culpa
about hiring Michael Cohen. They released a letter to employees saying that hiring Michael Cohen as a political consultant was a big mistake. They paid Cohen Thousands of dollars for help in dealing with the Trump Administration on a number of matters including the acquisition of time warner that donald trump said he didnt want to see happen when he was president. The Washington Post reports that internal documents from at t detail the 600,000 they paid to cohen and describes his contract, which highlights how he is to quote creatively address political and Communications Issues and advise the company on matters before the federal communications commission. Im joined by tom handberger. Tom, its not clear to me, im not a lawyer. Its not clear what if anything Michael Cohen did may have been illegal. It seems he is involved in
questionable ethical stuff. But at t, a company that has business before the administration, paying the personal lawyer of President Trump through a company that he established in the weeks before the election does not pass a smell test to this economics reporter. Well, i think that your first assessment that there is nothing thats obviously illegal here is correct. In fact, the payment to Michael Cohen, although now the ceo of at t and another company, novartis have apologized for hiring him is not illegal. The concern is, at least in the ideas of these ceos now, its unseemly. Large amounts of money going to a guy who was the president s personal lawyer. Which would appear to be paying for access in effect. Rather than expertise. But its not illegal to pay someone. Its not clear that Michael Cohen was required in this case to register as a lobbyist. He did not register. So the issue here is one of ethics and optics, not a matter of the law. But as Stephanie Ruhle points out and you point out a lot, this is how washington works. Just to put it in context, at t spent 16. 8 million on lobbying in 2017. So this was about 3. 5 of their total of make of that what you will. But the fact is, this isnt all that unusual for the way lobeing works and the way businesses work. Its not necessarily draining the swamp, but its not unusual. Its not unusual. In fact, paying individuals with access to Decision Makers in washington is an ageold practice. It is increased recently. That is the amounts of money that goes to those who have connections. In particular former lawmakers, former public officials. Those include former head of the cia, the fbi, our most augusta institutions can become very wealthy simply providing this kind of advice to private sector
interests. What is a little bit unusual in Michael Cohens case is that he doesnt have the past experience that a former u. S. Official would have. That is at t we know hired him for his expertise at the fcc of which he has none. He has a phone, that might be the level of expertise. Has some expertise in taxi and the Trump Business but fcc matters, nothing that i know of. And Defense Contractors and accounting. It is a mystery why he was involved in any of these businesses. As you point out, it may not be illegal. Tom good to see you as always. Tom hamburger with the Washington Post. Lets talk more. Jill wine bank, a Watergate Special prosecutor and an msnbc prosecutor. While its interesting to me, jill, the optics of Public Companies with their legal departments and optics departments allowing this to happen, paying money to a company established a little
before the election with no expertise in any of the spaces they needed work done. Put that aside for a second. Whats mostly interesting here. Im going to put that back the companies that gave money to Michael Cohen. Money from Columbus Nova. Thats the only group that gave money to Michael Cohen for real estate work. On the other hand they seem to have ties to russian oligarchs. This is all very strange. And i think when we are looking for crimes we need to look at where did the money go . Its clear that nobody hired Michael Cohen for his expertise. He doesnt have any. And he shouldnt have been the gobetween. But that is the only explanation you can have is that people thought that he had access or that he would pass the money on to the president. So we have to once again, just like in watergate, we have to follow the money. We have to see where it went. Thats going to be a key question. So the question and to tom
hamburgers point. If Michael Cohen was successful in shaking people down or ins canning him he had access he didnt have good for him. Thats the American Dream that he is living. More importantly, though, at t gave him 600,000 and novartis gave him 1. 2 million and he funneled that off into om place thats his business. He took a loan on a property against his inlaws property which is weird given how much money was coming into his bank account but it is curious the money that we need to know where it went is this Columbus Nova stuff, because the other money, maybe they were duped into thinking Michael Cohen could solve their problems. But who is this Columbus Nova and where did that money go . That is the key question, Columbus Nova. But i would say there are Business Issues involved, too. If you are a stockholder on at t do you want your money spent wasted on hiring someone with no skills . There is no excuse for that. And thats why apparently one top official of at t has been forced to resign. Apologies have been issued by at t and novartis. So they made a mistake in doing this. And probably would have never said anything except that they got caught. Yeah. Thats the key issue. But you are right. The russian money is the money we want to find out about. Equally so, what if the at t money was given for a specific action by the president . Then you have a quid pro quo and you have bribery. Other than that, you dont necessarily have a crime. But we need to know where even the at t and Novartis Money went not just the russian money. Giuliani was asked about this. He said it is a dead issue as far as im concerned. That combined with the Vice President tell reporters that he thinks that the Mueller Investigation should wrap itself up because it hasnt found anything. This is the most interesting stuff yet. It is. And you have a real echo again of watergate. You had Richard Nixon saying a year of watergate is enough. And you have the Vice President saying we gave 1. 2 million documents. But you reason is given the ones that are needed. You havent cooperated completely. Dont shut down an investigation until it comes to its own natural conclusion. This is just wrong. And it is more of the obstruction. It seems plain to me. The more they attack the fbi. The more they attack mueller, the more they attack the department of justice. The more they attack rosenstein. Those are things that are obstruction of justice. You can have obstruction even if you dont have an underlying crime. You can. And thats what this looks like. They should be more careful. And i wouldnt be taking my legal advice from Rudy Giuliani or factual statements either because we know how inaccurate he has been. Jill, there is weird stuff going on these days testimony Michael Cohen stuff, the Rudy Giuliani stuff. Its hard to believe. Always great to see you, though, gives us an excuse to talk often. Jill wine banks, former assistant Watergate Special prosecutor. Thank you ali. To the white house. Kelly odonnell is standing by. She covered the Mccain Campaign im sure in that Press Briefing thats underway with the health and Human Services secretary but Sarah Huckabee sanders hasnt started her questions yet, there are going to be a lot of questions about the mccain comments. I would expect that our colleagues in the White House Press corps would ask about a staffer who made this remark about Senator Mccain in the context of the Confirmation Process for gina haspel who is the nominee to be cia director. Mccain has a long Standing Public Rohr record against the use of Interrogation Methods that are commonly referred to as torture. Back in the bush era after 9 11 they were deemed legal under what is called enhanced interrogation technique. He has long been an opponent of that kind of aggressive sort of
interrogation. In part fueled by his own experience in vietnam where he was held for more than five and a half years and was subjected to horrific levels of physical beatings and extreme pain. So much so that as you outlined at the top of the program he hasslingering effects today. Unable to move his arms above his he will boesz. I was there for the campaign, every day of it in 2008 and first met him in 1996 covering politics. I was