Transcripts For MSNBCW MSNBC Live With Ali Velshi 20191115 2

Insult insulted as you did today essentially blaming you for somalia. As if this is another step by the president to intimidate witnesses. He didnt intimidate you. Youre here. Youve endured. But there are other people out there that can expect the trump treatment if they come forward. Thats a question for us. Now, you also indicated that the president has a prerogative to appoint a noncareer person and to be candid, republican president s and democratic president s have done that. The mr. Sondlands transcript is out and he was someone who indicated that everything hinged, this the white house meeting and the release of the vital defensive aid. Everything hinged on the president , president zelensky, being willing to do that investigation that would benefit the trump campaign. Youre aware of that . Yes. And youve indicated thats something that you would not agree to do. Yes. And sondland was quite willing to do. Apparently, so. I thank you for your professional service and i yield back. Thank you. Mr. Maloney. Ambassador yovanovitch, thank you for being here. Its been a long day. You know, the first time we met, it wasnt clear. So i just want to start with a quick comment. But, you know, your testimony in this inquiry broke the dam. You were the first one through that stonewall that the president was trying to set up. And i just want to thank you for that because others have followed your example. And theres an old expression that the first person through the wall gets a little bit bloody and i i think you must understand that expression in a new way. But thank you. Thank you. I want to ask you about the day you were let go. And i know this is a painful series of events so forgive me but i think its very important. Its april 24th and you you you told us a few things that really stuck with me. You said you were at the embassy in ukraine. You were honoring a ukrainian woman, anticorruption activist. I believe her name is katerina, am i saying that correctly . I was at my house. Yeah. Excuse me. And you were giving her the woman of Courage Award i believe. Yeah. Embassy kievs woman of Courage Award. Right. And of course, thats the day you get a call from carol perez, a Senior Member of the Foreign Service, did you know carol perez . Yes. Youre both senior women in the Foreign Service. You had an opportunity to meet her before . Yes. And she says theres trouble coming. Want to give you a heads up. Correct me if i get this wrong and i dont know a lot but its coming from the white house. Ill kale y ill call you later. Yeah. That sums it up. But youre literally that evening honoring this anticorruption activist, is that right . Yes. And not just any woman but a woman you said was horribly attacked and killed for her efforts. And she wasnt just killed. You said she you said i believe that someone threw acid on her. Thats correct. And i went and i checked during the break and it turns out she she was horribly injured and it took four months for her to die. Is that right . A very painful death. Why would Somebody Attack her with acid . There are easier ways to kill people. Why do you think they did it with acid . Well, i think they wanted her out of the way but i think the message was this could happen to you, too, if you continue her work. Thats what happens when you go up against corrupt people in ukraine. It is something that can happen. I mean, there are other ways of sidelining people. Do you remember speaking at that event . I do. I went and looked at what you said. You said katerina paid the ultimate price for her fearlessness in fighting against corruption and for her determined efforts to build a democratic ukraine. Do you remember saying that . Yes. And then your phone rings. And you hear this trouble at the street and carol perez called you back later that night, right . Uhhuh. It was 1 00 a. M. I believe. Yes. Were you sleeping . No. You had stayed up . Yes. To get the phone call. Yes. And thats when she says two things, i believe, that really stuck with me. She said, were worried about your security. Yes. Youve just been honoring a woman who was killed for Fighting Anti for her anticorruption efforts and she says you got to get on the next plane. Was she speaking youve mystically . Did she mean literally the next plane . Well, i think she meant, you know, as soon as possible. But pretty much it was the next plane. And thats a pretty good flight back from kiev to washington and youre on your way to meet with deputy secretary sullivan. Yes. And he says to you two things. He says there was a concerted effort against you. And he says youve done nothing wrong. Right. And what im fascinated about is when he says youve done nothing wrong, what did you expect the United States government would do next . You know, it was pretty clear that a decision had been made by the president , implemented by the State Department, that i had to leave ukraine. But i you know, i id hope that thered be more public support. Did you expect them to have your back . Yes. And were you surprised when you found out they werent gonna . Not at that point anymore. Why . Well, because over the last several months, that had not been the case. Maam, in your Opening Statement, you said how could our system fail like this . Yeah. How is it that a foreign excuse me how is it that foreign corrupt interests could our government . How is it that foreign corrupt interests could manipulate our government . I want you to know, maam, that that is the very question we are determined to get an answer for and i want to thank you on behalf of your country for your service and with our work in answering that question. I yield back, mr. Chairman. Thank you you. Ms. Demings. Thank you so much, mr. Chairman. Ambassador, everyone in this room should be thankful for your service to our nation. I i have four Little Girls In My Life and as i sit here thinking about them and as a woman, i could not be prouder of you. And i consider you an inspiration for women Around The World. Thank you. I just have to say before i get into my questioning is, i think its disgraceful to hear my colleagues refer to your sworn testimony as a performance today. Or speak in a condescending way. Basically, suggesting that the woman, because i think thats how the president referred to you, im not sure he knows your name or theres some other meaning there. But to basically suggest that the woman should be thankful for whatever she was left with. Smear campaign and all after your you were recalled. But i want you to know today that we thank you for your service, your 33 years of service. Ambassador, on a press Conference Call on october 17th, acting white house Chief Of Staff mulvaney discussed his belief that its entirely appropriate to politicize u. S. Foreign policy. Heres what he said. If you read the news reports and you believe them, what did mckinley say yesterday . Well, mckinley said yesterday that he was really upset with the political influence in Foreign Policy. That was one of the reasons he was so upset about this. And i have news for everybody. Get over it. There is going to be political influence in Foreign Policy. Ambassador yovanovitch, do you share the concern raised by ambassador mckinley in testimony before this committee about political influence in Foreign Policy . Well, as i said before, i think its important to keep political influence out of Foreign Policy because we all, whether we are republican or democrats or something else, have Common Security interests and that needs to be safeguarded and advanced. And what message do you think it sends to other Foreign Service officers and public servers, which we so desperately need good ones, when an administration refuses to support its own officials in the face of a Smear Campaign . Well, its its deeply troubling. Its deeply troubling and there are morale issues at the State Department. Morale issues at the State Department. I can understand why. On march 20th of 2019, President Rom P tweeted an article that representative Pete Sessions that said you had and i quote spoken privately and repeatedly about your disdain for the current administration. A way that might call for the expulsion of you as you ambassador to ukraine immediately. Did you speak publicly and privately about your disdain for the Trump Administration . No. Why do you think the president would want to push such a lie . I dont know. I dont know. Policies change but u. S. Interests dont. Not for those who are seeking to do the work of protecting our nation. The work you have done for decades. The president , his Chief Of Staff, and his allies seem to want nothing more than to spear the smear the good people trying to protect this country and to hijack our institutions for their personal and political gain. Again, ambassador, we thank you so much for your service. And ill yield. My remaining time to the chairman. Thank you. I thank the gentlewoman. Im going to go to mr. Christian murphy. Good afternoon, ambassador, and thank you to the family, as well. Thank you. For being here in support of you today. Id like to direct you to an area of bipartisanship, namely aid to ukraine. Congress on an overwhelmingly bipartisan basis has appropriated hundreds of millions of dollars in military assistance to ukraine, correct . Yes. And that aid is being used by ukraine to fight a common adversary, namely russia, right . Yes. The u. S. Has consistently partnered with other countries to keep russia at bay and maintain the peace in europe, right . Yes. As Ambassador Taylor suggested earlier this week, supporting ukraine helps maintain peace so that americans dont have to go to war again in europe, right . Yes. Suspending that aid and weakening ukraine can increase the likelihood of the opposite, correct . Yes, it is extremely short sighted. The last time you were in ukraine was may 20th of this year, right . Yes. In his Opening Statement, Ambassador Taylor said he took charge in ukraine on june 17th. Yes. Therefore, there was almost a onemonth gap between the time you departed and when taylor took over. Right . Yes. Yes. During that time on may 20th, ambassador sondland, rick perry and others came to the inauguration of president zelensky, right . Yes. And during that gap in time, ambassador sondland visited the white house, along with others, and got directions from President Trump to talk to rudy. Those were his words. Talk to rudy about what to do in ukraine, right . Thats my understanding. In other words, isnt it the case that your departure and the onemonth gap between the time you left and when Ambassador Taylor arrived provided the perfect opportunity for another group of people to basically take over ukraine policy. Isnt that right . Yeah. Ambassador, youre going to have to speak a little louder into the mic. Yes. Yes. Thank you. On page ten of your Opening Statement, You Mentioned Quote Unquote Corrupt Interests apparently hijacking our ukraine policy, right . Yes. A couple of suspect individuals in that regard were lev parnas and igor fruman, right . Yes. You mentioned in response to minority counsel earlier that you learned that fruman and parnas were attempting to open a Liquified Natural Gas company, correct . Yes. Howd you learn that, by the way . I heard it from the minister of interior. Interestingly, at noon today, the Wall Street Journal reported that federal prosecutors in manhattan are investigating whether Rudy Giuliani stood to personally profit from that Liquified Natural Gas venture. Do you have any knowledge of that . No, i do not. Maybe we should talk to rudy, huh . Ambassador, id like to direct you to another line of questioning that i had for Ambassador Taylor earlier this week. He said that there were irregular channels of diplomacy at work in ukraine circumventing normal diplomatic channels and threatening American Interest in favor of private interest. I asked him the question, can you rule out the possible possibility that these irregular channels of diplomacy are being used in other countries where we conduct Foreign Policy . In response, he said that he could not rule it out. Ambassador yovanovitch, i ask you and i assume that you cant rule it out either, correct . I cant but i would also add i have no knowledge of that. I understand. Are you concerned that these irregular channels of diplomacy may be at work elsewhere . I think its a possibility. You testified that it was a Quote Unquote Dangerous Precedent that private interests and people who dont like a particular ambassador could combine to replace that ambassador. Are you concerned that other ambassadors may suffer the same fate as you . Yes. Ambassador, in your service as an american diplomat, you have encountered various dictators and strong men ruling other countries, right . Yes. In your personal life, your parents fled the soviet union and nazi germany and they became familiar with despits and dictators as well, correct . Yes. And youre an authority on authoritarianism, right . Maybe. Is it a feature of authoritarianism to allow corrupt interest to hijack Foreign Policy . Yeah. Is it a future of authoritarianism for the rulers there to claim absolute rights . Yes. And is it a hallmark of authoritarianism for those rulers to smear their opponents . Sometimes, yes. Thank you. Time of the gentlemans expired. Mr. Nunes, do you have any concluding remarks . I would just say to the American People todays show trial has come to an end. Were headed down now to the basement of the capitol to go until i dont know what time and well be back there hiding again behind the closed doors. Interviewing more witnesses that you may or may not be able to see in the public. I hate to break it to my colleagues, if theres anyone else out there watching Television Ratings but they must be plummeting right now. And i would suggest that we get back to the work of the intelligence committee. That we pass a Trade Agreement with the United States, mexico, and canada that would actually help the American People out because this is an embarrassment. Ill yield back. Mr. Chairman, may i be recognized for a motion . No, i have some concluding remarks. Ambassador, i want to thank you for your decades of service. I want to thank you you as mr. Maloney said, for being the first one through the gap. What you did in coming forward and answering a lawful subpoena was to give courage to others that also witnessed wrongdoing. That they, too, could show the same courage that you have. That they could stand up, speak out, answer questions. They could endure whatever threats, insults may come their way. And so in your long and distinguished career, you have done another great Public Service in answering the call of our subpoena and testifying before us today. I think you gathered from our comments that we not only grieve for what you went through but what damage is being done to the State Department, to career federal Foreign Service officers all over the country. I am profoundly grateful to you and mr. Kent and Ambassador Taylor who have done so much in the last two days or three days to show the American People the face of our diplomatic core. The extraordinary Public Servants who work all Around The World in very dangerous places, as you have. And so im glad theyve gotten to see you because youre often v vilified as bureaucrats or diplomacy is diminished as unimportant. Anything other than military doesnt really matter when its your efforts that often prevent us from going to war. Sometimes youre disparaged as the deep state. But what you are is what holds this country together, what holds our Foreign Policy together. What makes it seamless, what makes it work. And im glad america gets to see that. I will just emphasize, once again, about the importance of your testimony. Mr. Kent and Ambassador Taylor gave us the broad outlines of this story. This is a story about an effort to coerce, condition, or bribe a foreign country into doing the dirty work of the president. Investigations of his political rival. By conditioning u. S. Taxpayer money. By Conditioning A meeting that president zelensky desperately wanted and needed to establish that relationship with the most powerful patron of ukraine, the United States of america. The fact that they failed in this solicitation of bribery doesnt make it any less bribery. Doesnt make it any less immoral or corrupt. It just means it was unsuccessful. And to that, we owe other dedicated Courage Award<\/a> i believe. Yeah. Embassy kievs woman of Courage Award<\/a>. Right. And of course, thats the day you get a call from carol perez, a Senior Member<\/a> of the Foreign Service<\/a>, did you know carol perez . Yes. Youre both senior women in the Foreign Service<\/a>. You had an opportunity to meet her before . Yes. And she says theres trouble coming. Want to give you a heads up. Correct me if i get this wrong\rand i dont know a lot but its coming from the white house. Ill kale y ill call you later. Yeah. That sums it up. But youre literally that evening honoring this anticorruption activist, is that right . Yes. And not just any woman but a woman you said was horribly attacked and killed for her efforts. And she wasnt just killed. You said she you said i believe that someone threw acid on her. Thats correct. And i went and i checked during the break and it turns out she she was horribly injured and it took four months for her to die. Is that right . A very painful death. Why would Somebody Attack<\/a> her with acid . There are easier ways to kill people. Why do you think they did it with acid . Well, i think they wanted her out of the way but i think the message was this could happen to you, too, if you continue her work. Thats what happens when you go up against corrupt people in ukraine. It is something that can happen. I mean, there are other ways of sidelining people. Do you remember speaking at that event . I do. I went and looked at what you said. You said katerina paid the ultimate price for her fearlessness in fighting against corruption and for her determined efforts to build a democratic ukraine. Do you remember saying that . Yes. And then your phone rings. And you hear this trouble at the street and carol perez called you back later that night, right . Uhhuh. It was 1 00 a. M. I believe. Yes. Were you sleeping . No. You had stayed up . Yes. To get the phone call. Yes. And thats when she says two things, i believe, that really stuck with me. She said, were worried about your security. Yes. Youve just been honoring a woman who was killed for Fighting Anti<\/a> for her anticorruption efforts and she says you got to get on the next plane. Was she speaking youve mystically . Did she mean literally the next plane . Well, i think she meant, you know, as soon as possible. But pretty much it was the next\rplane. And thats a pretty good flight back from kiev to washington and youre on your way to meet with deputy secretary sullivan. Yes. And he says to you two things. He says there was a concerted effort against you. And he says youve done nothing wrong. Right. And what im fascinated about is when he says youve done nothing wrong, what did you expect the United States<\/a> government would do next . You know, it was pretty clear that a decision had been made by the president , implemented by the State Department<\/a>, that i had to leave ukraine. But i you know, i id hope that thered be more public support. Did you expect them to have your back . Yes. And were you surprised when you found out they werent gonna . Not at that point anymore. Why . Well, because over the last several months, that had not been the case. Maam, in your Opening Statement<\/a>, you said how could our system fail like this . Yeah. How is it that a foreign excuse me how is it that foreign corrupt interests could our government . How is it that foreign corrupt interests could manipulate our government . I want you to know, maam, that that is the very question we are determined to get an answer for and i want to thank you on behalf of your country for your service and with our work in answering that question. I yield back, mr. Chairman. Thank you you. Ms. Demings. Thank you so much, mr. Chairman. Ambassador, everyone in this room should be thankful for your service to our nation. I i have four Little Girls In My Life<\/a> and as i sit here thinking about them and as a woman, i could not be prouder of you. And i consider you an inspiration for women Around The World<\/a>. Thank you. I just have to say before i get into my questioning is, i\rthink its disgraceful to hear my colleagues refer to your sworn testimony as a performance today. Or speak in a condescending way. Basically, suggesting that the woman, because i think thats how the president referred to you, im not sure he knows your name or theres some other meaning there. But to basically suggest that the woman should be thankful for whatever she was left with. Smear campaign and all after your you were recalled. But i want you to know today that we thank you for your service, your 33 years of service. Ambassador, on a press Conference Call<\/a> on october 17th, acting white house Chief Of Staff<\/a> mulvaney discussed his belief that its entirely appropriate to politicize u. S. Foreign policy. Heres what he said. If you read the news reports and you believe them, what did mckinley say yesterday . Well, mckinley said yesterday that he was really upset with the political influence in Foreign Policy<\/a>. That was one of the reasons he was so upset about this. And i have news for everybody. Get over it. There is going to be political influence in Foreign Policy<\/a>. Ambassador yovanovitch, do you share the concern raised by ambassador mckinley in testimony before this committee about political influence in Foreign Policy<\/a> . Well, as i said before, i think its important to keep political influence out of Foreign Policy<\/a> because we all, whether we are republican or democrats or something else, have Common Security<\/a> interests and that needs to be safeguarded and advanced. And what message do you think it sends to other Foreign Service<\/a> officers and public\rservers, which we so desperately need good ones, when an administration refuses to support its own officials in the face of a Smear Campaign<\/a> . Well, its its deeply troubling. Its deeply troubling and there are morale issues at the State Department<\/a>. Morale issues at the State Department<\/a>. I can understand why. On march 20th of 2019, President Rom P<\/a> tweeted an article that representative Pete Sessions<\/a> that said you had and i quote spoken privately and repeatedly about your disdain for the current administration. A way that might call for the expulsion of you as you ambassador to ukraine immediately. Did you speak publicly and privately about your disdain for the Trump Administration<\/a> . No. Why do you think the president would want to push such a lie . I dont know. I dont know. Policies change but u. S. Interests dont. Not for those who are seeking to do the work of protecting our nation. The work you have done for decades. The president , his Chief Of Staff<\/a>, and his allies seem to want nothing more than to spear the smear the good people trying to protect this country and to hijack our institutions for their personal and political gain. Again, ambassador, we thank you so much for your service. And ill yield. My remaining time to the chairman. Thank you. I thank the gentlewoman. Im going to go to mr. Christian murphy. Good afternoon, ambassador, and thank you to the family, as well. Thank you. For being here in support of you today. Id like to direct you to an area of bipartisanship, namely aid to ukraine. Congress on an overwhelmingly\rbipartisan basis has appropriated hundreds of millions of dollars in military assistance to ukraine, correct . Yes. And that aid is being used by ukraine to fight a common adversary, namely russia, right . Yes. The u. S. Has consistently partnered with other countries to keep russia at bay and maintain the peace in europe, right . Yes. As Ambassador Taylor<\/a> suggested earlier this week, supporting ukraine helps maintain peace so that americans dont have to go to war again in europe, right . Yes. Suspending that aid and weakening ukraine can increase the likelihood of the opposite, correct . Yes, it is extremely short sighted. The last time you were in ukraine was may 20th of this year, right . Yes. In his Opening Statement<\/a>, Ambassador Taylor<\/a> said he took charge in ukraine on june 17th. Yes. Therefore, there was almost a\ronemonth gap between the time you departed and when taylor took over. Right . Yes. Yes. During that time on may 20th, ambassador sondland, rick perry and others came to the inauguration of president zelensky, right . Yes. And during that gap in time, ambassador sondland visited the white house, along with others, and got directions from President Trump<\/a> to talk to rudy. Those were his words. Talk to rudy about what to do in ukraine, right . Thats my understanding. In other words, isnt it the case that your departure and the onemonth gap between the time you left and when Ambassador Taylor<\/a> arrived provided the perfect opportunity for another group of people to basically take over ukraine policy. Isnt that right . Yeah. Ambassador, youre going to have to speak a little louder into the mic. Yes. Yes. Thank you. On page ten of your Opening Statement<\/a>, You Mentioned Quote Unquote Corrupt Interests<\/a> apparently hijacking our ukraine policy, right . Yes. A couple of suspect individuals in that regard were lev parnas and igor fruman, right . Yes. You mentioned in response to minority counsel earlier that you learned that fruman and parnas were attempting to open a Liquified Natural Gas<\/a> company, correct . Yes. Howd you learn that, by the way . I heard it from the minister of interior. Interestingly, at noon today, the Wall Street Journal<\/a> reported that federal prosecutors in manhattan are investigating whether Rudy Giuliani<\/a> stood to personally profit from that Liquified Natural Gas<\/a> venture. Do you have any knowledge of that . No, i do not. Maybe we should talk to rudy, huh . Ambassador, id like to direct you to another line of questioning that i had for Ambassador Taylor<\/a> earlier this week. He said that there were irregular channels of diplomacy at work in ukraine circumventing normal diplomatic channels and threatening American Interest<\/a> in favor of private interest. I asked him the question, can you rule out the possible possibility that these irregular channels of diplomacy are being used in other countries where we conduct Foreign Policy<\/a> . In response, he said that he could not rule it out. Ambassador yovanovitch, i ask you and i assume that you cant rule it out either, correct . I cant but i would also add i have no knowledge of that. I understand. Are you concerned that these irregular channels of diplomacy may be at work elsewhere . I think its a possibility. You testified that it was a Quote Unquote Dangerous Precedent<\/a> that private interests and people who dont like a particular ambassador could combine to replace that\rambassador. Are you concerned that other ambassadors may suffer the same fate as you . Yes. Ambassador, in your service as an american diplomat, you have encountered various dictators and strong men ruling other countries, right . Yes. In your personal life, your parents fled the soviet union and nazi germany and they became familiar with despits and dictators as well, correct . Yes. And youre an authority on authoritarianism, right . Maybe. Is it a feature of authoritarianism to allow corrupt interest to hijack Foreign Policy<\/a> . Yeah. Is it a future of authoritarianism for the rulers there to claim absolute rights . Yes. And is it a hallmark of authoritarianism for those rulers to smear their opponents . Sometimes, yes. Thank you. Time of the gentlemans expired. Mr. Nunes, do you have any concluding remarks . I would just say to the American People<\/a> todays show trial has come to an end. Were headed down now to the basement of the capitol to go until i dont know what time and well be back there hiding again behind the closed doors. Interviewing more witnesses that you may or may not be able to see in the public. I hate to break it to my colleagues, if theres anyone else out there watching Television Ratings<\/a> but they must be plummeting right now. And i would suggest that we get back to the work of the intelligence committee. That we pass a Trade Agreement<\/a> with the United States<\/a>, mexico, and canada that would actually help the American People<\/a> out because this is an embarrassment. Ill yield back. Mr. Chairman, may i be recognized for a motion . No, i have some concluding remarks. Ambassador, i want to thank you for your decades of service. I want to thank you you as mr. Maloney said, for being the first one through the gap. What you did in coming forward and answering a lawful subpoena was to give courage to others that also witnessed wrongdoing. That they, too, could show the same courage that you have. That they could stand up, speak out, answer questions. They could endure whatever threats, insults may come their way. And so in your long and distinguished career, you have done another great Public Service<\/a> in answering the call of our subpoena and testifying before us today. I think you gathered from our\rcomments that we not only grieve for what you went through but what damage is being done to the State Department<\/a>, to career federal Foreign Service<\/a> officers all over the country. I am profoundly grateful to you and mr. Kent and Ambassador Taylor<\/a> who have done so much in the last two days or three days to show the American People<\/a> the face of our diplomatic core. The extraordinary Public Servants<\/a> who work all Around The World<\/a> in very dangerous places, as you have. And so im glad theyve gotten to see you because youre often v vilified as bureaucrats or diplomacy is diminished as unimportant. Anything other than military doesnt really matter when its your efforts that often prevent us from going to war. Sometimes youre disparaged as\rthe deep state. But what you are is what holds this country together, what holds our Foreign Policy<\/a> together. What makes it seamless, what makes it work. And im glad america gets to see that. I will just emphasize, once again, about the importance of your testimony. Mr. Kent and Ambassador Taylor<\/a> gave us the broad outlines of this story. This is a story about an effort to coerce, condition, or bribe a foreign country into doing the dirty work of the president. Investigations of his political rival. By conditioning u. S. Taxpayer money. By Conditioning A<\/a> meeting that president zelensky desperately wanted and needed to establish that relationship with the most powerful patron of ukraine, the United States<\/a> of america. The fact that they failed in\rthis solicitation of bribery doesnt make it any less bribery. Doesnt make it any less immoral or corrupt. It just means it was unsuccessful. And to that, we owe other dedicated Public Servants<\/a> who blew the whistle. Had they not blown the whistle, we wouldnt be here and i think it is appalling that my colleagues continue to want to out this whistleblower so that he or she can be punished by this president. But lets underscore once again while you are the beginning of this story, youre not the end of it. But nonetheless, the beginning is important because the beginning of the story is an effort to get you out of the way. An effort by Rudy Giuliani<\/a> and fruman and parnas and corrupt ukrainians to get you out of the way. Because they felt you were an impediment to these political investigations the president so desperately wanted. Giulianis made it abundantly clear he was in ukraine on a mission for his client, for the president , to investigate the bidens. And you were viewed as an obstacle that had to go. Not just by giuliani but by the president of the United States<\/a>. And if people had any doubt about it, they should do what the president asks. Read the transcript. And what theyll see in that transcript is the president praises the corrupt. He praises the corrupt. Lutzenko. He condemns the just. You. And then he asks for an investigation of the bidens. There is no camouflaging that corrupt intent. We are adjourned. Speak on condition. Mr. Chairman, youve disparaged youve disparaged\rthose members on this side of the aisle. We should have a chance to respond to your disparaging remarks. Mr. Chairman, i demand to mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman. [ applause ] it has been a Topsy Tevy Day<\/a> of unexpected, unanticipated twists and turns in the Second Public<\/a> day of testimony in the Impeachment Proceedings<\/a> into donald j. Trump. A veteran of the career foreign\rservice, Marie Yovanovitch<\/a>, who served as the ambassador, u. S. Ambassador, in ukraine until she was called at 1 00 in the morning and told for her security to get on the next plane out of ukraine. Yovanovitch not just a witness to the Shadow Campaign<\/a> but a victim of it. A victim. The first victim of Rudy Giuliani<\/a>s Smear Campaign<\/a> against her. Campaign thats under scrutiny by prosecutors of the Southern District<\/a> of new york. Sometimes referred to as sdny. Headlines today say that offices investigation into two of Rudy Giuliani<\/a>s associates now includes an investigation into Rudy Giuliani<\/a> and some of his business dealings. Whether or not they intersect with anything we heard today from Marie Yovanovitch<\/a> is a known unknown at this hour. What we do know, republicans spent a lot of their time reading seemingly unrelated headlines into the record and trying to compliment Marie Yovanovitch<\/a> after donald trump seemed to make an effort at\rtampering with this witness and intimidating her earlier today. Chris, what do you think the Lasting Impact<\/a> of today will be . Before we came on the air, were listening to a spontaneous round of applause for ambassador yovanovitch. Well, a couple things. First of all, the news today will be from the morning where the president tweeted his attempt to intimidate the witness in the words of the chair. That he went in there attacking her saying shes caused Around The World<\/a>. Wherever shes been going, its been going to hell. But it was an attempt to really smear her in real time and it may well be part of the Impeachment Indictment<\/a> that the house puts together. First or second articles. I thought its interesting just in terms of competition. I mean, i am a political person. I was watching the two dugouts when we had the last intermission there. The democrats were all laughing together. I know this is just partisan. But theres a partisan aspect to this. They had a winning witness today. They had a star who hit many\rhome runs today. The republican side, in a couple ways, they looked miserable first of all. They looked angry because they had a bad day. But they also avoided anita hill moments. They were very careful not to be there was none of these back and forth with the woman witness. The woman as the president called her. None of those strong, stern, indicting questions that can be used against him in the next election. I think these men, theyre all men except for stephenic, knew they were on very dangerous territory with that witness. If they go after somebody that fine, theyre the bad guy. Its what they didnt do this afternoon. They didnt even jordan was pretty measured. These cowboys out there decide this is no time to mess with her. They knew what the pictures going to look like tonight and tomorrow. And i guess if thats where we are that the best thing we can say about the republicans is there were no anita hill moments, then thats where we are. Yeah. And but one thing is like very Crystal Clear<\/a> at this moment. There was one question asked in the Opening Statement<\/a> of this amazing american woman. And it was why was i smeared . Why was i removed . That was the question that hung over the hearing room hour after hour after hour. And you know what the republicans came with . Crickets. Nothing. As ambassador mcfaul said, no one even attempted to try to explain why they needed to get her out of ukraine quickly and why it was this whole campaign to smear her and remove her came about. We know what it is now. You know, looking at it from a distance, we can tell what it was. But it is really interesting to me that they wanted to somehow make it about we dont know who the whistleblower is. Or, you know, some people in ukraine didnt like trump because he was saying that russia deserved crimea. Well, what what did trump\rthink the people in ukraine were going to do when he said in the campaign, well, russia deserves crimea. Of course, they were not going to be for him. She wouldnt let herself be drawn in. It was perfect. Because if shed been bradra into a reasonable argument about why the ukrainians would have been upset, then she wouldnt have been partisan and they would have nailed her. Chairman schiff. Lets listen in. So just wanted to share a few observations after the testimony today, i think we could all see what an incredible Public Servant<\/a> ambassador havenyovanov is. We are so fortunate to have dedicated professionals like her serving Around The World<\/a>. Shes served in some of the most dangerous places. And has done so always with great distinction, with great courage. Under fire sometimes quite literally. She showed that same, i think,\rlevel of devotion and courage and commitment to country today. Sowe so were grateful to her. Were grateful to the other witnesses who have testified as well who show the country what it means to be a Public Servant<\/a>. What it means to be a career Foreign Service<\/a> officer. Were enormously proud of them. That she had to endure yet another attack today even as she was testifying with the president of the United States<\/a> is just appalling. But as we have observed so often, appalling in this administration is not the least bit surprising. Nonetheless, she endured the attack and went on. We are grateful for that. But it is quite clear that i think from her testimony, as well as others, that Rudy Giuliani<\/a> and the president felt it was necessary to get her out of the way. That notwithstanding what the president and others were told about her dedication to country, her commitment to fighting\rcorruption. If anything, her commitment to Fighting Corruption<\/a> was part of the reason why she was pushed out. Pushing her out made it possible to put in the three amigos to conduct ukraine policy. If there were any doubt about why she was pushed out, i think the call record eliminates that doubt. It is apparent from that call record that the president associated his bias in favor of this corrupt prosecutor lutzenko, with a need to push out yovanovitch. With the need to move forward with the investigations he wanted of his political rival. That a u. S. Ambassador would be so shamelessly smeared and cast aside to further this corrupt effort just adds further insult to the injury done to the country and to our national security. Thank you. Chairman, real quick. Whats your expectation for next year . The expectation that fiona hills testimony will be the last public hearing that your committee will hear in this Impeachment Proceeding<\/a>. Well, we, as youve seen, weve combined witnesses from time to time on different panels depending on how long we think the testimony of any one witness may go. Weve also tried at times to accommodate schedules. But mostly, the witnesses have accommodate us. In terms of whether ambassador hill will be the final testimony, im not prepared to say. But as we have endeavored all along, we are moving expeditiously but we are trying to move methodically. On the issue of witness intimidation, theres been talk today that this could potentially be considered impeachable. Is it more obstruction of justice . Or abuse of power in your view at this point . Well, i would say that the president s attack on a witness\rtoday is not something that we view in isolation. This is part of a pattern the president of the United States<\/a>, a pattern that goes back to praising Paul Manafort<\/a> for not cooperating. Condemning Michael Cohen<\/a> as a rat because he was cooperating with authorities. Attacking other witnesses who come forward. Suggesting that we ought to treat those like the whistleblower who exposed wrongdoing in his administration as we treat traitors and spies. And we used to execute traitors and spies. This is a part of a a pattern to intimidate witnesses. And its also part of a pattern to obstruct the investigation. It was also a part, frankly, of the pattern to obstruct justice. And so we need to view the president s actions today as part of a broader and incriminating pattern of conduct. That was congressman adam schiff underscoring some of the developments today. Maya. Yeah. Absolutely. I think what was so important about what adam schiff said is that this is a peach impeachable conduct that weve seen from the president. We already had impeachable conduct just in barring congress from getting access to fact witnesses and to documents to get at the truth. And if, in fact, the president did nothing wrong, why is the white house blocking information from getting to congress so it can conduct its business which is oversight . Thats its job under the constitution. Maya, are you surprised none of those argument i mean, those are not democratic Talking Points<\/a>. Those are about one branch of government and its oversight role. Are you surprised no republican walks out and makes any of the arguments . Im shocked because what theyre essentially doing is seating the power and the Job Responsibilities<\/a> that they got\relected to do. And when theres when the shoes on the other foot, does it are they weakening . Yeah. Listen. This is the congress. This is the Republican Party<\/a> that complained when it couldnt get all the documents on fast and furious. Right . If they have made these complaints. All right. We are going to listen in to jim jordan for a minute. Third witness who was not on the call. Third witness who wasnt even in as i said, in ukraine when when when the relevant during the relevant timeframe. Wasnt even there when president zelensky left before he was even inaugurated as as the new president. So, again, four facts. I say this every time but its the truth. Four facts have never changed, will never change. Weve got the call transcript. There was no conditionality or linkage on the call between an investigation, security assistance. We have the two individuals on the call who both said that there was no pressure, no linkage. We know that the ukrainians didnt even know aid was\rwithheld or on hold at the time of the call. And most importantly, the ukrainians specifically president zelensky never took any official action to get the aid released. And so those those facts never change and and will never change. Sure. So this was day two of an abject failure. As we saw today, he is making up the rules as he goes. He did not let republicans put forth any unanimous consents. He did not let us control our own time, republican members time. I think i was interrupted about six times throughout the hearing. So this is just more the ridiculous abuse of power were seeing from adam schiff. I think one of the most important facts that came across today, ambassador yovanovitch testified that the president can appoint ambassadors at will. That is important. The president has a right to pick who his or her ambassadors are. And then in my line of questioning, i just wanted to highlight the obama state\rdepartment was so concerned about Conflict Of Interest<\/a> with hunter biden sitting on burismas board that the obama State Department<\/a>, that was the first instance where ambassador yovanovitch had ever heard the word burisma. Thats an important fact to note for all of the viewers here today. So were going to continue asking about Hunter Bidens<\/a> role on burisma on behalf of the millions of americans who want to know the answer to that question. And then on the whistleblower, it is important to note that adam schiff and i listed all the instances of this. Adam schiff initially in september said he was adamant about hearing from the whistleblower and it only changed when it became clear that there was coordination between democratic staff and the whistleblower before the whistleblower complaint was issued. Let me just do two other real quick things. First, i thought we were in the public stage of this socalled impeachment inquiry. But yet, here in just a few minutes, were going back to the bunker in the basement of the capitol for another deposition that the American People<\/a> wont get to see. What they also havent seen yet are four transcripts of people whove already been deposed,\rwhich means under house rules, we cannot use that testimony in these proceedings. We would like to use parts of the testimony from mr. Morrison as an example in the open hearings. But were prohibited under house rules from doing that. So a great question for you all to ask mr. Schiff is when is he going to release those transcripts so we can use that information in the public hearing . Once the president sent his tweet, didnt that completely undercut anything you were trying to do in the hearing today . Chad, were not hear to talk about tweets. Were hear to talk about Impeachable Offense<\/a>s. Chad, let me answer your question. These hearings are not about tweets. They are about impeachment of the president of the United States<\/a>. This is a constitutional matter. You can disagree or dislike the tweet but we are here to talk about impeachment and nothing in that room today and nothing in that room earlier this week, nothing rises to the level of Impeachable Offense<\/a>s. This is wishful political thinking by the democrats. This is not the first or last tweet that theyre going to complain about but we are talking about impeachment and there is not a single fact that\ris impeachable in terms of this president. All right. Were going to go about business of quickly fact checking. Jim jordan still hasnt found his jacket. But there were some lies being disseminated there and what i dont understand, chris, is why . Well, when its transparent, they know by house resolution, they ruled that the Opening Statement<\/a> would be shared between the Ranking Member<\/a> and his counsel. Thats it. Thered be no one else they can yield to. And right there, they tried to yield to stefanic so she would do her usual hit job. Theyre aiming at the audience that isnt been following it, havent read the paper. And it falls on democrats i say to schiff should have read out at that moment the resolution that said only Ranking Member<\/a>s and the chair and their counsels are allowed to talk in those first 45 minutes, which they work out through the whole house. And those people were able to act like theyre getting cheated. The tropes here are, were being treated unfairly. There is a Transparency Problem<\/a> here when theres 40 republicans going down now its called the basement. Now, its called the bunker. Its the scif. But theyre going to make it weirder and weirder. Yeah. They keep doing this and by the way, when they testify down there in the scif, thats secret, cultlike behavior. When they come forward and repeat their testimony, its called a performance. Theres no way you can satisfy the critics because their goal here is Righteous Indignation<\/a> for the 40 of the country that buys this stuff. By the way, ive never heard politicians talk through Talking Points<\/a> by listing the Talking Points<\/a>. They actually list one, two, three. They actually, you know, weve been in that business. But they actually say, here are my Talking Points<\/a> and theyre the same all the time. But the amazing thing is they said, oh, the news . The news . That donald trump threat ened or witness in real time. Im not going to talk about\rthat. Thats a tweet. The idea that anything has gone on, i actually think the speed with which the transcripts have been made public is remarkable. And a scif just for anyone who doesnt know is a secure briefing room. Its usually used for reading and sharing classified information and its to do the opposite of what they say. Everything thats happened in those scifs or bunkers has been released to the public. So the republicans, you know, theyre dancing so quickly because the the attacks are sort of undermined almost as soon as they come out of their mouths. Well, nicolle, a scif is of a restaurant in kiev. In a local restaurant, there is a room of spies. Im glad you said that. You immediately Start Talking<\/a> on your little walkietalkie to the president of the United States<\/a> who picks up the call. So trump should be in a scif. David holmes, though, we had a little bit of news made there or since weve been on the air. And i think Jeff Bennetts<\/a> with us. Jim jordan talking about a new witness in a closedoor deposition. His name is david holmes. The significance here, the bombshell from the first day of public testimony came from Ambassador Taylor<\/a>, who added to his Public Record<\/a> of testimony that there was another call. Another conversation between President Donald Trump<\/a> and his handpicked ambassador to the eu, Gordon Sondland<\/a>, and on that call donald trump asked Gordon Sondland<\/a>, hey, what about the investigations . This was the day after the call between zelensky and trump. So the only thing on trumps mind wasnt are we going to get them their aid . It wasnt howd it go . What did they think of me . It was how are my investigations into biden going. Jeff, what do we know about the importance of this witness, when he was called, and how long this deposition is scheduled to go today . Well, nicolle, House Republicans<\/a> are keeping this new key witness waiting. He arrived here on capitol hill almost an hour ago. But over my other shoulder here, you have i think what mark meadows now talking to reporters. But yes, you laid out why david holmes is a key witness now\rbecause he overheard or is said to have overheard this key conversation between President Trump<\/a> and Gordon Sondland<\/a> on july 26th. A day after that key call in question. The July 25th Call<\/a> between president s trump and zelensky. So House Investigators<\/a> clearly want to know what he heard on that call and more to the point what Gordon Sondland<\/a> had to say after it. Now, Gordon Sondland<\/a> is set to give public testimony back in that same room here on wednesday. We should mention that david holmes was subpoenaed. Hes testifying here willingly. Perhaps not altogether enthusiastically because as we saw today from ambassador yovanovitchs testimony, no Foreign Service<\/a> officer wants to be caught in the middle of this political push and pull. This back and forth that represents the impeachment inquiry. But this testimony goes really to the heart of democrats case. Somebody described House Democrats<\/a> as playing a game of Wheel Of Fortune<\/a> where theyve already solved the puzzle but yet they keep throwing letters at the screen. House democrats say they know what the underlying Impeachable Offense<\/a> is. President trump, House Speaker<\/a> nancy pelosi, has said already admitted to it. But what theyre doing behind closed doors, why theyre in the scif across the street, two floors below in the basement level, is that theyre piecing together. Theyre stitching together really a tapestry of evidence and testimony to build an ironclad case for impeachment. Nicolle and chris. Thank you so much. Jump back in front of a camera with any updates from that important new witness up there on capitol hill today. Thanks, jeff. Lets bring in new york congressman democratic congressman sean patrick maloney. He joins us from the house. Congressman, ive been pressed by your line of questioning. I have watched the pattern of it by the way. Its fascinating. When you sought to do, i believe, is to bring in the human factor here. The heroic aspect of these persons. Not just the fact witness aspect. But who they are. Why have you chosen that route of questioning . Because theyre remarkable americans and they remind us about everything thats good in\rour government. They remind us that there are still people who know right from wrong and its no accident that there are people who fought for the country, whove served it honorably, and they are continuing that service by by breaking the stone wall the president tried to build around this. And at risk to their own professional careers, telling the truth. Responding to lawful requests from congress. I have an enormous respect for ambassador yovanovitch, for Ambassador Taylor<\/a>, and the other witnesses youre going to see because theyre reminding us that there are still good people fighting for the right things in the american government. Even deeper than that, i thought you got to bill taylor the other day when you said heres a guy who graduated fourth in his class of 800 at west point, which is a serious academic institution. Number four says a lot. And you pointed out that he could have picked his own built when he came out. He didnt have to go into the infantry. He didnt have to go into the jungle. And he did. Exactly right. I mean, this is a person who couldve chosen any, any military occupational specialty,\rany mos as they call it. And he picked the infantry. He was a Rifle Company<\/a> commander at the height of the vietnam war. By the way, he was 506 regimen, the famous band of brothers brigade. And let me tell you what. From that moment in 1969 until two days ago, hes been serving his country. So who do you believe . Ambassador bill taylor . Or or an extraordinary person like ambassador Yovanovitch Who<\/a> who was told to get on the next plane because they were concerned for her safety at the very moment shes honoring an anticorruption fighter who was killed by Corrupt Ukrainian Elements<\/a> by an acid attack. This is not a laughing matter. She is told to get out. Were worried about your security. Get on the next plane. But heres the point. That threats not coming from the bad guys abroad. Its not coming from the ukrainian mob per se. Its coming from her own government and that is the heart of the question she asked, which is how could our system fail us like this . How could corrupt foreign interest take control of our Government Policy<\/a> . She deserves an answer to that and thats what were doing up here. How does the president line up in that comparison with those two Public Servants<\/a> you mentioned . Taylor and yovanovitch. How would you rate donald trump in that regard . Well, look. Look, im not trying to pile on here. But we all know what what the president did in vietnam and and the bone spurs excuse for service. And that was a difficult time and a lot of people faced very difficult decisions and there were complex feelings about the war. But i think we can all agree Ambassador Taylor<\/a> demonstrated extraordinary heroism with the choices he made and hes been doing it ever since. And heres Marie Yovanovitch<\/a>, who has literally faced faced fire, incoming fire in her career. Had a bunch of hardship posts. Was doing exemplary work in ukraine. Had her term extended moments a few weeks before she was fired. And these are the kinds of people weve got in our Foreign Service<\/a>, in our military. And im im glad its on display because weve heard so much about those institutions being demoralized and i know that at embassies Around The World<\/a>, theyre watching these ambassadors. And military installations, theyre looking at guys like Lieutenant Colonel<\/a> vindman, who well hear from next week, and theyre being reminded about what an oath means. About what integrity means and youre note getting it from the white house. Were seeing kind of a reenactment, restaging of The Iron Curtain<\/a> today with the oligarchs replacing the old nomenclature. The old big shots of the soviet union. And were seeing a tyranny by putin. Against anybody in the near empire, which theyre trying to reclaim. We see it all happening. What side of that fight is the president of the United States<\/a> on . For that fight for the bad side . Or our side, trying to prevent it . Which side is he on . Well, let the people judge for themselves. Youre a member of congress. Youre on the intel committee. What side is President Trump<\/a> on . Well, let me tell you. Look at look at whos on that team. Youve got Rudy Giuliani<\/a>. Youve got parnas and fruman, who are now indicted. You got guys like roger stone, who just got convicted of seven counts today. For lying to the intel committee, by the way. Youve got people like ambassador sondland who bought with a Million Dollars<\/a> a fancy title in europe and then tried to further the president s scheme and has been having trouble recalling it despite multiple attempts. And on the other side, youve got war heroes like Lieutenant Colonel<\/a> vindman, who earned a purple heart. Youve got guys like Ambassador Taylor<\/a> who we just spoke about. Youve got ambassador yovanovitch. Its pretty clear, isnt it . Who The Good Guys<\/a> are and the bad guys are. The one thing mike quigley was joking about but its kind of true it felt like a Movie Hearing<\/a> her talk about being at the embassy honoring a courageous woman who lost her life Fighting Corruption<\/a> when she gets the call that leads to the realization that the own government is going to kneecap her for doing the same thing. And weve got to set this right. I got to tell you after this testimony, we are more determined than ever to hold this president accountable and to make sure the American People<\/a>\rknow who The Good Guys<\/a> are here and what the right things are to be fighting for and it sure as hell isnt the russians. Sean Patrick Murphy<\/a> sean patrick maloney. One of the irish guys. Thank you for joining us. I like your values, sir. Thank you so much. Jason, i do think this is not an ethics matter. This is not something for the House Ethics Committee<\/a> or the senate. This seems to be a question of what side are you on . Right. Right. Are you on the side of the United States<\/a>, right . I mean, how many different times have we seen donald trump insult our intelligence community, insult the fbi, insult the cia, now insult the State Department<\/a> . Anyone whos not about whatever ridiculous graft, that happens to be his enemy. And the problem is he has no problem insulting or destroying the reputations of any individual he sees as being in his way. I want to point this out. Congressman i want to make sure im pronouncing this properly. I thought he did one of the best jobs in questioning when he laid out this is not about taylor\rversus yovanovitch. This is about that window of time between when yovanovitch was gone and they moved in taylor, which allowed trump to put in all of his minions to make sure this got done. So i thought that was a very good setup, a very good timeline to see, look, the president cant even get everybody to engage in his sort of ridiculous plans so he puts in other people. Just another big thought here about what were really doing here. Were looking at the post cold war era. Our relationship with the old eastern block with the former warsaw pact. The ussr as it was once assembled and now an attempt to bring it back together. First, crimea. Then eastern ukraine. In the midst of all that, talking about our president , what side hes on. Apparently, he is on the side of rebuilding the old empire. Yes, we are talking about it at the 30th Anniversary<\/a> of the fall of the berlin wall. Its kind of astounding. And i think graft was a great word, jason. But there really should only be one side and it should be the side of democracy. It should be the side of the\ru. S. Constitution. We can debate a lot of things about what policies we need in this country but the one policy that was bipartisan that no one had a debate about was the importance of the ukraine as the front line. As the front line in maintaining the rule of law and peace in europe. And that that was fundamental to the to u. S. Security, to our national interest. And that was not at issue until now. You know, before world war ii, we had big power politics. You know, you had stalin. You of course had stalin after the war, too. You had hitler. You had mussolini. The rule was then let the big boys kick the little mussolini. The bad boys kicked The Good Guys<\/a> around because these are the big boys. All the way through the cold war we said thats not acceptable. We have a u. N. , a general assembly. Every country counts. Even Vulnerable Countries<\/a> like ukraine count. Trump seems to be back to the old way of doing things. Three or four big shot\rcountries, china, us, russia, we kick everybody around. This is what seems to be hes quite happy with russia kicking ukraine around. Hes happy with it. Well, there is a theme to his presidency when it comes to Foreign Policy<\/a>. He is attracted to the strong men, to the ones who like to bully. Not only the other nations that they are not fond of but their own people. Like congressman jordan. Yeah. Whether its putin or erdogan or kim jongun. The fact that he is trying to lift these guys up. And the irony is, chris, i remember when the republicans were talking about Freedom Fries<\/a> and all about Liberty And Freedom<\/a> and freedom. Freedom agenda. Their president is going for the guys who have no respect for freedom. No wonder ukrainians were worried about donald trump because they had seen how much he was attracted to putin and how he was playing up to putin. So, and ill tell you what. The tweet. For him to act like this tweet was not a problem, ken star who we all remember, pretty big player in the clinton impeachment, he said on fox news today that tweet was very injurious to the president , not well advised. So when ken star is calling you out on fox news about the tweet being legally damaging and liz cheney too. And, i mean, im sure youll agree that tweet was really damaging to the president. I agree, and to the process. Let me get back to ambassador mcfaul. In terms of the history we are in now, post berlin wall, you know that part of the world. What are they watching us to see . Are we along to go along with russias ambition to reclaim the empire . What are they seeing us do right now as we fight over this . First, chris, i just have to\rsay that was an incredible performance by ambassador yovanovitch. Somebody ive known for a long time to sit there and take those questions and not take the bait to go partisan. I was extremely impressed with that. To your question here. Here is the issue. In both russia and ukraine, the Trump Administration<\/a> has one policy, and the president of the United States<\/a> has a different strategy. And in ukraine, we know why. Because he was trying to get dirt on his president ial opponent in 2020. Whats interesting to me is why does he have an alternative strategy when it comes to russia. Right. Well, explain, put it together. [ laughter ] these are big thoughts, ambassador. What is the relation between his righteous strategy which is pro putin and his zelensky strategy which was used for personal, political gain . We have a trump\radministration. I know a lot of these people. Some of them work with me here at stanford. They developed a policy. They sat in the white house situation room. They came up with a strategy visavis russia and ukraine. And it was basically to push back on that empire that you were just talking about. But we know in russia we have talked about for a long time the president has never really agreed with it. Maybe for private reasons too. But in ukraine, hes undermining his own policy. I think thats really important for people to understand. Ambassador yovanovitch doesnt have her own policy. Ambassador taylor doesnt have his own policy. They were conducting and executing the policy of the Trump Administration<\/a>. And then in parallel to that with the three amigos, with giuliani and his sidekicks, President Trump<\/a> was just advancing his own personal agenda that had to do only with the 2020 election. Lets go back. Thank you very much, ambassador mcfaul. Lets go to the president. Heres the president of the United States<\/a> this afternoon defending himself against the charge from the chairman of the Committee Adam Schiff<\/a> that he engaged basically in witness tampering today. Im the most transparent president in history. And ill tell you about what tampering is. Tampering is when a guy like Shifty Shift Doesnt Let Us<\/a> have lawyers, doesnt let us speak. Ive been watching today for the first time i started watching, and its really sad when you see people not allowed to ask questions. Its totally nobodys ever had such horrible due prochlts there was no due process. And i think its considered a joke all over washington and all over the world. The republicans are given no due process whatsoever. We are not allowed to do anything. Its a disgrace whats happening. But you know what . The American Public<\/a> understands it. And thats why the poll numbers are so good. And thats why other things are so good. What they are doing in washington and by the way its a political process, its\rnot a legal process. So if i have somebody saying im allowed to speak up. If somebody says about me we are not allowed to have any kind of representation, we are not allowed to have almost anything, and nobodys seen anything like it in the history of our country there has never been a disgrace like whats going on right now. So you know what . I have the right to speak. I have Freedom Of Speech<\/a> just as other people do. But theyve taken away the republicans rights. And i watched today as certain very talented people wanted to ask questions and they werent even allowed to ask questions, republicans. They werent allowed to ask questions. Its a very sad thing. Claire mccaskill, what do you make of him falling back on the First Amendment<\/a> . Yeah. Well, first of all, ive said this a million times. He lies more often than most people brush their teeth. He stood there at that podium in that important position surrounded by important officials in our government and lied and lied and lied. Anybody who watched the hearing knows the republicans were allowed to ask questions. All of them had the same amount\rof time to ask questions. All that Congressman Schiff<\/a> was doing was enforcing the rules. And by the way most of these rules they wrote, the private depositions, that was written in the gowdy era, thats what they used in benghazi. So i think him saying its Freedom Of Speech<\/a>. You have the power to speak, the right to speak. You do not have the right to abuse your power or to intimidate witnesses. And thats where he crosses the line. And hes right. This is a disgrace. It is a national disgrace. Never happened before in the history of our country. But its him. Jason, he plays to the Chip On The Shoulder<\/a> brilliantly. The Leadership Group<\/a> always say if you let me answer the question no matter what theyre saying its not answering the question. But they have these little memes and tropes they use. He got all the chance in the world. He had all the chances in the world. He has the biggest bully pulpit\rin the world. He sounds like don king after his fighter failed. It was rig ld and the net wasnt good and the fists werent good and everything didnt work in my favor and the refs were against me. Well, don king is republican too. The [ laughter ] john, we are trying to get the history here. Your thoughts. Well, i think the president should stop using the phrase ein the history of the country because he doesnt know enough about it to justify it. To use the word unprecedented kind of doesnt quite capture it. At some point it seems to me theres got to be 10 of selfidentified republicans. I know a lot of republicans whose hearts are in the right place. But their minds have been captured by the pursuit of power. They have decided that taxes and judges are worth putting up with this kind of behavior. And its not american. Its not dignified. Walter, the founder of the\reconomist wrote that the British Constitution<\/a> had two functions. There is the efficient and the dignified. The president of the United States<\/a> embodies both of those, is supposed to. And in this case hes managed to commit an impeachable act in realtime in front of all of us. Thats not often we got to watch it on television. We have watched assassinations on television. We have never seen a president in the midst of an Impeachment Proceeding<\/a> commit what could well turn out to be, could well turn out to be an impeachable act in itself, tampering with a witness. Right. And as you say, its not even like the nixon tapes we had to subpoena those. This just unfolds in plain sight. And i think people have to think about it. And they may come to a different conclusion. But as john adams once said, facts are stubborn things. And the fact of the matter is people have to decide is this the person you want sitting there at the pinnacle of power with the charge of the","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"https:\/\/vimarsana.com\/images\/vimarsana-bigimage.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240618T12:35:10+00:00"}