Transcripts For MSNBCW MSNBC Live With Craig Melvin 20190326

Mueller found no proof of coordination with russia, even though mueller offered no exoneration on the question of obstruction of justice. Politico puts it this way, a mixture of ecstatic relief and plans for revenge. The New York Times writes the president and republicans are, quote, vowing to pursue and even punish those responsible for the russia investigation. And the Associated Press says trump sees the end of the investigation as a political opportunity. Democrats are not ready to move on, though. Six House Committee chairs are demanding the attorney general release the entire report by next tuesday. Hans nichols is at the white house for us. The big question is are we going to hear from the president today . Reporter i suspect the president will find a way and time to find the cameras on capitol hill. Ni in the past, he tends to talk to the cameras. The white house wants to get their message out. Kellyanne conway has been going about 20 minutes, were at a 25 minute gaggle. This is a white house that wants to talk, that wants to press their advantage, what they think their advantage is. Theyre stopping short of calling for a special counsel investigation into how this all got started. Theyre making it very clear they want a look at the origins of the Mueller Report. 25 minutes, that is quite a record, i have to say. I think at one point Kellyanne Conways gaggles were coming down to two minutes, one minutes. 25 minutes, lets see how long they can go. Any idea what shes talking about . Reporter theyre trying to find out the president s position on healthcare. The president supports the idea that people who have preexisting conditions can get insurance. Theyre having a difficult time reconciling that with what the president s own department of justice is doing and that is trying to take out the entire Affordable Care act in that texas court. They havent filed their brief, theyre saying theyre going to file it. Kellyanne conway is taking shots on democrats on capitol hill, across the board, a lot of hits at the media. At the same time, theyre trying to say they want to move on and that they want to start working on pharmaceutical pricing. Li listen to what Kellyanne Conway said earlier on fox. Those on capitol hill who are in charge of such investigations will continue forward and well be watching. Did we have people, in fact, at the top levels of the doj and the fbi trying to sit on the scales of justice to try to prevent donald trump from being elected president . Reporter there are so many questions for the president if reporters get an opportunity to engage with him. Among them, is he calling for a special counsel for how the Mueller Report or the russia investigation actually got started . Because the white house seems to be wanting it both ways. Theyre saying they want to look into it but stopping short of calling for a special counsel. Thanks so much. Very much appreciate it. I want to get into more of this now, with me matt miller, betsy woodruff, and jonathan lemire, White House Reporter for the Associated Press and a political analyst who has written about the president s plans for retribution. Jonathan, because youre in front of me, i want to start with you. Trump surrogates going all out, lets take a listen to that and then i want you to comment on it. There are a lot of people out there that have done some very, very evil things, very bad things. I would say treasonous things against our country. This was the greatest farce every perpetrated. I think theyre shameless. Ive seen them already ignore it. I mean, we did spend enormous amounts of money and time. We had very skilled people who had a bias against the president. Theyve made donald trump look like the victim here. So greatest farce, treas treasonous, biassed. What are you hearing from inside the white house right now and how they plan to move forward . Its a sense of relief, this is what happened, the mueller cloud has lifted thanks to attorney general barrs letter on sunday. Thats not all their trying to do. Theres a sense they want retribution. Theyll use this as a political weapon Going Forward. On a couple of different fronts. First of all, youre hearing talk of investigations, cowlial for a special counsel. Theyre raising the idea of investigating the investigation to get to the bottom of how it began. Thats number one. Number two, theyre going to come after the media who they feel was a coconspirator if you will about how this went down. Weve seen a lot of trump surrogates attacking news organizations and individual reporters. I think thats going to step up further in the coming days. Most importantly, i think youre going to hear this from the president at his rally thursday night in michigan, theyre going to try to tie the findings to the waves of probes the democrats want to launch and are beginning to start. Theyre saying, look, you brought on robert mueller, we didnt interfere, we didnt fire him. He concluded his investigation. Called it a witchhunt the entire time. We didnt physically stop him. Mueller himself said there was nothing he was prevented from doing. If you had your shot is what trump is going to say. If youre going to continue to investigate me, youre not looking for truth, youre not looking for facts, this is simply a partisan overreach. That would continue the witch hunt idea. How do you think they would deal with it if the Mueller Report came out . Well have to see. It remains to be seen how much barr is going to let released. If he does, one would assume it would be portions that would back up his findings. If it does come out, yes, theres going to be a lot of litigation. A lot of back and forth over those things. A lot of spin. Were seeing that already. Democrats are in a bind here, too. Of course, its completely right. They should call for the full report to be released. At a certain point youre seeing cracks in the foundation already. How much further do we want to press on this . Their supporters might tire of the conversation. Steve bannon, he said that President Trump is going to go full animal. That hes going to come off the chains and use muellers findings to bludgeon his opposition. Got to leave it to steve bannon to use that terminology here. It sounds like the strategy that trump took in 2016 which looked quite well. Theyre going to allow trump to be trump Going Forward, especially if the white house feels hes been exonerated, whether or not thats the truth. For sure. Steve bannon has been cast far outside of the white houses circle. Hes moved the focus of his und undertakings to europe. Hes been driven out of the united states. With that said, what hes saying is consistent with what were hearing from people who are quite close to the president and with what the president s own son said publicly. The white house is very much loaded for bare. They see barrs letter as a huge victory. Theyre also energized by the aest arre arrest of Michael Avenatti who led the charge of revealing the information regarding that potentially illegal hush money payment, admittedly illegal hush money payment Michael Cohen made to stormy daniels. The fact that avenatti has been arrested and indicted has energized and enthused the white house. Its been speaking generally a very exciting 48 hours for the white house. Whether or not that lasts, of course, is contingent on what the Mueller Report actually says. We talked about these last two years, this must be the worst week for the president. This could feezalasibly be the week for the president. Nancy pelosi said this morning the full Mueller Report needs to be released no matter what. We also have Rashida Talib calling for impeachment. The democrats ought to try to get to the truth and demand the release of the report. The president is not saying anything different than what he was saying last week before the barr letter came out. The president obviously got a political win, but lets remember how he got that political win. He got it by picking an attorney general who had views of executive power that meant that were interpreted to mean the president didnt commit obstruction of justice based on the acts we know he was being investigated for. That attorney general released a letter substituting had his own finding for that of the special counsel whose findings we have yet to read. Democrats would be wise to continue to push for the full release of that report. I think the white house is getting a little ahead of itself here. This the end of the investigation was not an exoneration, the report apparently itself claims it. Let alone a vindication. The president would be wise to remember that six members of his campaign pled guilty to crimes. Lets remember that the investigation spawned other criminal investigations, including one in new york which said the president directed a criminal conspiracy. That investigation is ongoing. While the president should be released hes not being charged criminally, i think its a little too early to be taking victory laps. The white house is getting ahead of itself . I know. So, so odd. I think the real indicator of all this and how the white house is going to deal with this and the president Going Forward is going to be the rally in michigan coming on thursday. What do you think were going to hear there . Ill be there for thursday. Im pretty excited about it. But i think it will be one we remember. President trumps rallies, theyre always sound bites and hes both relieved and angry that he in his words has been exonerated. Angry he had to put up with this for two years. The burden on this and his family. His Adult Children have been under the legal spotlight as well. Thats not totally gone. The sdny investigation and others, there are absolutely legal questions facing this president and people around him. On thursday, i think youll see him deliver an i told you so. This was what ive been saying from the beginning. There was no collusion. Hell bend facts and twist the truth. He always does that. His message will be you came at me, i survived. Now i want revenge. And hes going to go after it. Hes not going to take the high road and bring the country together. Thats never been his style. Rather, use this as a weapon to bludgeon his foes. I wonder if the president is going to address the major issues his voters care about, healthcare and immigration. If theyre able to disassemble the Affordable Care act, thats going to be a really bad thing for a lot of his base and voters. That could be a major win for the democrats. My big question is is he going to be addressing that along with the i know i told you so argument. That remains to be seen. It does in some ways, some people close to me says the white house is stepping on a good news story by injecting this moment. Some of his supporters will not endorse, would not be in favor of a full on repeal. But, you know, he has time and time again suggested he cant leave well enough alone. Well see if he wants to talk about that on thursday or not. All right. Thank you guys so much. Coming up, prescription for disaster. The Trump Administration changes course with a huge decision that could affect the healthcare of millions of people. The contenders, the democratic contenders have been trying their very best. Why the Mueller Report is about the future instead of the arrest. Michael avenatti facing serious charges from federal prosecutors. We also have breaking news with regards to Jussie Smollett. All that coming up next. E smollt all that coming up next. Along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. With chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting. Chantix reduces the urge so when the day arrives, youll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. When you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix. You may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. Stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in. Behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or life threatening allergic and skin reactions. Decrease alcohol use. Use caution driving or operating machinery. Tell your doctor if youve had Mental Health problems. The most common side effect is nausea. Quit smoking slow turkey. Talk to your doctor about chantix. All of you. How you live, what you love. Thats what inspired us to create americas most advanced internet. Internet that puts you in charge. That protects whats important. It handles everything, and reaches everywhere. This is beyond wifi, this is xfi. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Xfinity, the future of awesome. Welcome back, everybody. We have breaking news out of chicago related to the Jussie Smollett case. I want to read a statement from smolletts attorneys. Today all criminal charges against Jussie Smollett were dropped and his record has been wiped clean of the filing of this tragic complaint against him. Jussie was attacked by two people he was unable to identify on january 29th. He was a victim who was vilified and made to appear as a perpetrator as a result of false and inappropriate remarks made to the public causing an inappropriate rush to judgment. Jussie and many others were hurt by these unfair and unwarranted actions. This entire situation is a reminder there should never be an attempt to prove a case in the court of public opinion. That is wrong. A victim in this case jussie deserves dignity and respect. Dismissal of charges against the victim in this case was the only just result. This is some astounding news and surprising to say the least. Joining me now is andrew blankstein, Anne Thompson and Danny Cevallos is with us. Our producer is in court and she tells me that Jussie Smollett is straight faced during this Court Hearing h. He does not appear to be smiling. He does not appear to be happy or hes showing no emotion. The records, apparently, in this case will be immediately sealed, which i think is very interesting. Remember, these are charges brought by the state of illinois. Whats unclear is what happens to the federal investigation into this case. As you said, it really is just a shocking turn of events because all of a sudden we heard here in the newsroom, we got rumors that Jussie Smollett was going to be in court today and then suddenly it was Something Big and then hes expected to speak after this Court Hearing. And the question is what has happened . Why have prosecutors suddenly decided to drop the charges here . Are those two men who claimed they were the ones who beat up Jussie Smollett at his urging, have they be fouen found to be lying . This decision raises more questions than it answers this morning. Just so you know, on one side of the screen youre seeing the still images of Jussie Smollett. Were awaiting him for exit the courtroom. We have confirmation hell be speaking. As soon as we get that well bring it to you. Andrew, i want to bring you into this conversation. I know youve been following this story closely. We literally just got this. Im wanting our audience to bear with us as this story is developing. But can you add to what anne has been talking about . Its a bombshell thats the latest of twists in this case. Law enforcement says the fbi will continue into the case. The question again hinges on what happened with the grand jury testimony . What happened with the brothers . What did they say . There was a recusal by the lead state attorney who was replaced. There are all these potentially factoring in. Chicago p. D. Hasnt made a statement regarding these facts. And we should expect that shortly. Theres just a lot that we still dont know this morning. But its quite a turn. Im sure you watched the press conference from the Chicago Police department as we all did a couple weeks ago when everything changed with regards to Jussie Smollett. This must have been surprising news to you to say the least. When i heard there was going to be an emergency hearing the first thought was because of some of the things that have been going on in the Michael Avenatti case and mark geragos, that this may have to do with that. There was a couple counts added a couple weeks ago. With mark geragos, we were with him that day, he didnt say a whole lot. He was on a podcast and he discussed it briefly. The amazing thing to me is given the twists and turns, this is the last thing i expected at this juncture. Its a huge change. All right, danny, i got to bring you in to answer some of these legal questions we have. A lot of us are scratching our heads with so many of these questions. Obviously, as andrea talked about, the 16 charges dropped. Two counts of indictment dropped. Record will be immediately sealed. Talk us through this. Why are these records being immediately sealed . What is your hunch here . What do you think is happening with regards to such a quick drop in the charges . What happened here with the federal investigation . Talk me through it, danny. Its only a hunch at this point, but just based on these facts, what we can glean is possibly that something went south very quickly in the prosecutions case. Often that can be a witness. It also could have been the product of some negotiation by his attorneys, of course. But if the prosecution believed for so long it had a solid case and suddenly changed its mind, well, then that might be a reason for dismissing a case so quickly. Notice, it sounds like a full dismissal and expungement. Not a deal for what we call pretrial intervention where hell do probation and later on down the road he doesnt have to plead guilty, but his record is exspn exspn expon exponged. Remember, New York Times<\/a> writes the president and republicans are, quote, vowing to pursue and even punish those responsible for the russia investigation. And the Associated Press<\/a> says trump sees the end of the investigation as a political opportunity. Democrats are not ready to move on, though. Six House Committee<\/a> chairs are demanding the attorney general release the entire report by next tuesday. Hans nichols is at the white house for us. The big question is are we going to hear from the president today . Reporter i suspect the president will find a way and time to find the cameras on capitol hill. Ni in the past, he tends to talk to the cameras. The white house wants to get their message out. Kellyanne conway has been going about 20 minutes, were at a 25 minute gaggle. This is a white house that wants to talk, that wants to press their advantage, what they think their advantage is. Theyre stopping short of calling for a special counsel investigation into how this all got started. Theyre making it very clear they want a look at the origins of the Mueller Report<\/a>. 25 minutes, that is quite a record, i have to say. I think at one point Kellyanne Conways<\/a> gaggles were coming down to two minutes, one minutes. 25 minutes, lets see how long they can go. Any idea what shes talking about . Reporter theyre trying to find out the president s position on healthcare. The president supports the idea that people who have preexisting conditions can get insurance. Theyre having a difficult time reconciling that with what the president s own department of justice is doing and that is trying to take out the entire Affordable Care<\/a> act in that texas court. They havent filed their brief, theyre saying theyre going to file it. Kellyanne conway is taking shots on democrats on capitol hill, across the board, a lot of hits at the media. At the same time, theyre trying to say they want to move on and that they want to start working on pharmaceutical pricing. Li listen to what Kellyanne Conway<\/a> said earlier on fox. Those on capitol hill who are in charge of such investigations will continue forward and well be watching. Did we have people, in fact, at the top levels of the doj and the fbi trying to sit on the scales of justice to try to prevent donald trump from being elected president . Reporter there are so many questions for the president if reporters get an opportunity to engage with him. Among them, is he calling for a special counsel for how the Mueller Report<\/a> or the russia investigation actually got started . Because the white house seems to be wanting it both ways. Theyre saying they want to look into it but stopping short of calling for a special counsel. Thanks so much. Very much appreciate it. I want to get into more of this now, with me matt miller, betsy woodruff, and jonathan lemire, White House Reporter<\/a> for the Associated Press<\/a> and a political analyst who has written about the president s plans for retribution. Jonathan, because youre in front of me, i want to start with you. Trump surrogates going all out, lets take a listen to that and then i want you to comment on it. There are a lot of people out there that have done some very, very evil things, very bad things. I would say treasonous things against our country. This was the greatest farce every perpetrated. I think theyre shameless. Ive seen them already ignore it. I mean, we did spend enormous amounts of money and time. We had very skilled people who had a bias against the president. Theyve made donald trump look like the victim here. So greatest farce, treas treasonous, biassed. What are you hearing from inside the white house right now and how they plan to move forward . Its a sense of relief, this is what happened, the mueller cloud has lifted thanks to attorney general barrs letter on sunday. Thats not all their trying to do. Theres a sense they want retribution. Theyll use this as a political weapon Going Forward<\/a>. On a couple of different fronts. First of all, youre hearing talk of investigations, cowlial for a special counsel. Theyre raising the idea of investigating the investigation to get to the bottom of how it began. Thats number one. Number two, theyre going to come after the media who they feel was a coconspirator if you will about how this went down. Weve seen a lot of trump surrogates attacking news organizations and individual reporters. I think thats going to step up further in the coming days. Most importantly, i think youre going to hear this from the president at his rally thursday night in michigan, theyre going to try to tie the findings to the waves of probes the democrats want to launch and are beginning to start. Theyre saying, look, you brought on robert mueller, we didnt interfere, we didnt fire him. He concluded his investigation. Called it a witchhunt the entire time. We didnt physically stop him. Mueller himself said there was nothing he was prevented from doing. If you had your shot is what trump is going to say. If youre going to continue to investigate me, youre not looking for truth, youre not looking for facts, this is simply a partisan overreach. That would continue the witch hunt idea. How do you think they would deal with it if the Mueller Report<\/a> came out . Well have to see. It remains to be seen how much barr is going to let released. If he does, one would assume it would be portions that would back up his findings. If it does come out, yes, theres going to be a lot of litigation. A lot of back and forth over those things. A lot of spin. Were seeing that already. Democrats are in a bind here, too. Of course, its completely right. They should call for the full report to be released. At a certain point youre seeing cracks in the foundation already. How much further do we want to press on this . Their supporters might tire of the conversation. Steve bannon, he said that President Trump<\/a> is going to go full animal. That hes going to come off the chains and use muellers findings to bludgeon his opposition. Got to leave it to steve bannon to use that terminology here. It sounds like the strategy that trump took in 2016 which looked quite well. Theyre going to allow trump to be trump Going Forward<\/a>, especially if the white house feels hes been exonerated, whether or not thats the truth. For sure. Steve bannon has been cast far outside of the white houses circle. Hes moved the focus of his und undertakings to europe. Hes been driven out of the united states. With that said, what hes saying is consistent with what were hearing from people who are quite close to the president and with what the president s own son said publicly. The white house is very much loaded for bare. They see barrs letter as a huge victory. Theyre also energized by the aest arre arrest of Michael Avenatti<\/a> who led the charge of revealing the information regarding that potentially illegal hush money payment, admittedly illegal hush money payment Michael Cohen<\/a> made to stormy daniels. The fact that avenatti has been arrested and indicted has energized and enthused the white house. Its been speaking generally a very exciting 48 hours for the white house. Whether or not that lasts, of course, is contingent on what the Mueller Report<\/a> actually says. We talked about these last two years, this must be the worst week for the president. This could feezalasibly be the week for the president. Nancy pelosi said this morning the full Mueller Report<\/a> needs to be released no matter what. We also have Rashida Talib<\/a> calling for impeachment. The democrats ought to try to get to the truth and demand the release of the report. The president is not saying anything different than what he was saying last week before the barr letter came out. The president obviously got a political win, but lets remember how he got that political win. He got it by picking an attorney general who had views of executive power that meant that were interpreted to mean the president didnt commit obstruction of justice based on the acts we know he was being investigated for. That attorney general released a letter substituting had his own finding for that of the special counsel whose findings we have yet to read. Democrats would be wise to continue to push for the full release of that report. I think the white house is getting a little ahead of itself here. This the end of the investigation was not an exoneration, the report apparently itself claims it. Let alone a vindication. The president would be wise to remember that six members of his campaign pled guilty to crimes. Lets remember that the investigation spawned other criminal investigations, including one in new york which said the president directed a criminal conspiracy. That investigation is ongoing. While the president should be released hes not being charged criminally, i think its a little too early to be taking victory laps. The white house is getting ahead of itself . I know. So, so odd. I think the real indicator of all this and how the white house is going to deal with this and the president Going Forward<\/a> is going to be the rally in michigan coming on thursday. What do you think were going to hear there . Ill be there for thursday. Im pretty excited about it. But i think it will be one we remember. President trumps rallies, theyre always sound bites and hes both relieved and angry that he in his words has been exonerated. Angry he had to put up with this for two years. The burden on this and his family. His Adult Children<\/a> have been under the legal spotlight as well. Thats not totally gone. The sdny investigation and others, there are absolutely legal questions facing this president and people around him. On thursday, i think youll see him deliver an i told you so. This was what ive been saying from the beginning. There was no collusion. Hell bend facts and twist the truth. He always does that. His message will be you came at me, i survived. Now i want revenge. And hes going to go after it. Hes not going to take the high road and bring the country together. Thats never been his style. Rather, use this as a weapon to bludgeon his foes. I wonder if the president is going to address the major issues his voters care about, healthcare and immigration. If theyre able to disassemble the Affordable Care<\/a> act, thats going to be a really bad thing for a lot of his base and voters. That could be a major win for the democrats. My big question is is he going to be addressing that along with the i know i told you so argument. That remains to be seen. It does in some ways, some people close to me says the white house is stepping on a good news story by injecting this moment. Some of his supporters will not endorse, would not be in favor of a full on repeal. But, you know, he has time and time again suggested he cant leave well enough alone. Well see if he wants to talk about that on thursday or not. All right. Thank you guys so much. Coming up, prescription for disaster. The Trump Administration<\/a> changes course with a huge decision that could affect the healthcare of millions of people. The contenders, the democratic contenders have been trying their very best. Why the Mueller Report<\/a> is about the future instead of the arrest. Michael avenatti facing serious charges from federal prosecutors. We also have breaking news with regards to Jussie Smollett<\/a>. All that coming up next. E smollt all that coming up next. Along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. With chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting. Chantix reduces the urge so when the day arrives, youll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. When you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix. You may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. Stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in. Behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or life threatening allergic and skin reactions. Decrease alcohol use. Use caution driving or operating machinery. Tell your doctor if youve had Mental Health<\/a> problems. The most common side effect is nausea. Quit smoking slow turkey. Talk to your doctor about chantix. All of you. How you live, what you love. Thats what inspired us to create americas most advanced internet. Internet that puts you in charge. That protects whats important. It handles everything, and reaches everywhere. This is beyond wifi, this is xfi. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Xfinity, the future of awesome. Welcome back, everybody. We have breaking news out of chicago related to the Jussie Smollett<\/a> case. I want to read a statement from smolletts attorneys. Today all criminal charges against Jussie Smollett<\/a> were dropped and his record has been wiped clean of the filing of this tragic complaint against him. Jussie was attacked by two people he was unable to identify on january 29th. He was a victim who was vilified and made to appear as a perpetrator as a result of false and inappropriate remarks made to the public causing an inappropriate rush to judgment. Jussie and many others were hurt by these unfair and unwarranted actions. This entire situation is a reminder there should never be an attempt to prove a case in the court of public opinion. That is wrong. A victim in this case jussie deserves dignity and respect. Dismissal of charges against the victim in this case was the only just result. This is some astounding news and surprising to say the least. Joining me now is andrew blankstein, Anne Thompson<\/a> and Danny Cevallos<\/a> is with us. Our producer is in court and she tells me that Jussie Smollett<\/a> is straight faced during this Court Hearing<\/a> h. He does not appear to be smiling. He does not appear to be happy or hes showing no emotion. The records, apparently, in this case will be immediately sealed, which i think is very interesting. Remember, these are charges brought by the state of illinois. Whats unclear is what happens to the federal investigation into this case. As you said, it really is just a shocking turn of events because all of a sudden we heard here in the newsroom, we got rumors that Jussie Smollett<\/a> was going to be in court today and then suddenly it was Something Big<\/a> and then hes expected to speak after this Court Hearing<\/a>. And the question is what has happened . Why have prosecutors suddenly decided to drop the charges here . Are those two men who claimed they were the ones who beat up Jussie Smollett<\/a> at his urging, have they be fouen found to be lying . This decision raises more questions than it answers this morning. Just so you know, on one side of the screen youre seeing the still images of Jussie Smollett<\/a>. Were awaiting him for exit the courtroom. We have confirmation hell be speaking. As soon as we get that well bring it to you. Andrew, i want to bring you into this conversation. I know youve been following this story closely. We literally just got this. Im wanting our audience to bear with us as this story is developing. But can you add to what anne has been talking about . Its a bombshell thats the latest of twists in this case. Law enforcement says the fbi will continue into the case. The question again hinges on what happened with the grand jury testimony . What happened with the brothers . What did they say . There was a recusal by the lead state attorney who was replaced. There are all these potentially factoring in. Chicago p. D. Hasnt made a statement regarding these facts. And we should expect that shortly. Theres just a lot that we still dont know this morning. But its quite a turn. Im sure you watched the press conference from the Chicago Police<\/a> department as we all did a couple weeks ago when everything changed with regards to Jussie Smollett<\/a>. This must have been surprising news to you to say the least. When i heard there was going to be an emergency hearing the first thought was because of some of the things that have been going on in the Michael Avenatti<\/a> case and mark geragos, that this may have to do with that. There was a couple counts added a couple weeks ago. With mark geragos, we were with him that day, he didnt say a whole lot. He was on a podcast and he discussed it briefly. The amazing thing to me is given the twists and turns, this is the last thing i expected at this juncture. Its a huge change. All right, danny, i got to bring you in to answer some of these legal questions we have. A lot of us are scratching our heads with so many of these questions. Obviously, as andrea talked about, the 16 charges dropped. Two counts of indictment dropped. Record will be immediately sealed. Talk us through this. Why are these records being immediately sealed . What is your hunch here . What do you think is happening with regards to such a quick drop in the charges . What happened here with the federal investigation . Talk me through it, danny. Its only a hunch at this point, but just based on these facts, what we can glean is possibly that something went south very quickly in the prosecutions case. Often that can be a witness. It also could have been the product of some negotiation by his attorneys, of course. But if the prosecution believed for so long it had a solid case and suddenly changed its mind, well, then that might be a reason for dismissing a case so quickly. Notice, it sounds like a full dismissal and expungement. Not a deal for what we call pretrial intervention where hell do probation and later on down the road he doesnt have to plead guilty, but his record is exspn exspn expon exponged. Remember, Jussie Smollett<\/a> was investigated and charged in state court for Disorderly Conduct<\/a>, which in illinois can include making a false report to police. That can be a very serious crime, much more than the name imblig implies. The federal investigation of the letter that was sent will continue. Thats an entirely different jurisdiction and it involved the u. S. Mail, which must be investigated very seriously. From the beginning i said the state court case is the least of smolletts concerns if the federal government concludes he was involved or complicit in sending a threatening letter through the u. S. Mail. That is a much more serious crime than the Disorderly Conduct<\/a> charges he faced in illinois. So talk me through, first of all, these records being immediately sealed. When youre saying the prosecution, who is it protecting by immediately sealing these records . Its a very beneficial thing to smollett. And to do it immediately, you know, every state is different. They provide for a form of whats called expungement. If a case resolves in a defendants favor, depending on the rules in each state, he should be able to have his record cleared. That includes his arrest record. Unfortunately these things linger on the internet forever. As a criminal defense attorney you always have an interest if a case is dropped against your client to see if you can get the entire record expunged. That arrest record remains in the submit. That expungement will benefit smollett because the court will send an order around to the fbi, to the fingerprint division, all these different places that had his information will, hopefully, expunge it after the court issues this order. But thats a benefit to criminal defendants if and only if a case resolves in their favor. You cant get a record expunged if you were convicted, served your time and have no more time to serve. This immediate expungement, a process that normally in the states where ive practiced takes many months, even half a year or so to get done, to have that done immediately shows that the prosecution must have been very much on board with this entire deal, with the dismissal and the immediate expungement on his record. You brought up the brothers as well. The brothers testimony from that evening that changed everything. So does this become a he said he said situation . Danny did i lose you . No, i thought that was for andrew, go ahead. Andrew brought up the question of the brothers. Basically we know the brothers sort of version of events from that evening is what changed the case, what changed the case for Jussie Smollett<\/a>. Its what turned it on its ear. Does it become a he said he said situation where they were believing Jussie Smollett<\/a> over the version of events that took place from the Brothers Point<\/a> of view . Thats a safe entrance. There was surrounding circumstantial evidence, theres payments with a check, things like that that we can make inferences about. Obviously key is the testimony of the two brothers who were not charged, were absolved of all guilt from the outset. That indicated that the police believed, if anything, they were unwitting dupes in smolletts scheme. Now perhaps, thats been turned on its head. Perhaps the police have discovered something about their story that doesnt add up in such a compelling way that they no longer believe theres any probable cause. More than that, theyre taking the affirmative steps of cooperating with dismissing the case in its entirety. This is an exceedingly rare thing for a prosecution to do. Really, the more thats coming out, if really seems to imply that something went seriously south in the prosecutions case. How unprecedented is this, danny . Its unusual i would say. I dont want to sound like a jaded criminal defense attorney here. But you are, but go ahead. When police or state prosecutors, you know sometimes their case goes through ebbs and flows, they lack confidence in a witness, then they regain confidence. But for a prosecutor to say my case has totally gone, we need to dismiss it. Its rare and i guess thats a testament to the strength of the cases they bring. Its a very promising thing if thats what happened here. If the prosecution recognized their case went south and they did the right thing and dismissed the case against the defendant. All right. Danny, stand by. I want to bring in our msnbc media analyst. Talk to me about your reaction so far to this . Well, you know, its interesting to see the back and forth thats been happening on social media and happening in the social conversation. About what it means. People who are advocating for the idea theres been a hate crime, perhaps the president s rhetoric has had something to do with it, initially very supportive of Jussie Smollett<\/a> and then sort of disappointed in him when the police sort of revealed their conclusions about what happened and began to prosecute it. Now i think well see a see saw back where people are going to have to question how much they actually trust what the police have told them about what they think has happened and how it relates and connects to these other issues about, you know, hate crime violence and people being attacked and people being vulnerable and celebrities speaking out on all of these issues. Yeah, i mean, what weve seen with cases like this before, not necessarily something as specific at this, but it has reverberations so far beyond this specific case. Well, its one of those things where you always have to exercise caution in any case, wheth with combustible allegations. We had more than a dozen detectives that were assigned to this case. They worked out through this Video Evidence<\/a> to try to see who was in the area. They put out the suspect photos. And then we have this twist with the brothers. Each kind of twist and turn, people have superimposed their opinions on it. As someone who has been a veteran Police Reporter<\/a> as long as i have and have seen twists and turns, what is the substance and procedurally whats happening . What were seeing now is clearly theres something that went on in the procedural part of this, the grand jury, but what we dont know and whats going to be very interesting is in terms of the investigation itself and the brothers, i think thats going to be a key part of it. Obviously, that was a quick turn in the other direction in this case. What well be looking for is was that forced, did they feel like they the grand jury testimony ended quickly . Those were things that came up at the time. Are we going to see them rear their head again as a possible sign of problems in the case . Certainly if youre chicago p. D. , for the time thats been put in and the resources, it raises some questions either on that end or the prosecutorial end. Well know shortly what happened here. I know youve got an update for us, go ahead. Were waiting for Jussie Smollett<\/a> to come out and speak after this court appearance. His attorneys came out and spoke to the media assembled there and were emphatic that people understand this is not a plea deal. There is no plea deal here. There is no Community Service<\/a>. The state charges against actor Jussie Smollett<\/a> were dropped and the attorneys want to make sure that people understand that. The charges were dropped. And thats a very significant development. So if youre just joining us its the bottom of the hour. I want to bring everybody up to date. Jussie smollett, the actor, its come back that all charges have been dropped against Jussie Smollett<\/a> in his court case in chicago. His case will be expunged and all records will be sealed. Danny, i believe youre still with us. I want you to wake in with what Anne Thompson<\/a> just talked about. Theres no plea deal here, no community swurvervice, what doe that say to you . Its like what i said earlier. It confirms for me my one question, which is oh, yes, im sorry. What kind of an arrangement is this . It he going to be Community Service<\/a> . Almost every state has some form of danny, just to stop you, Anne Thompson<\/a> said theres going to be no Community Service<\/a> whatsoever. Thats right. Yes, squlaeexactly. Thats one of the questions i had initially. Its confirmed with anns reporting that that is not the situation. This is is one of those one free bite of the apple where you do probation, Community Service<\/a>. This is something very different and more rare in the criminal Justice System<\/a>, a complete motion for dismissal. No questions asked. And an agreement to expunge. Thats giving the defense everything they ever could have asked for short of a written apology. Im not being glib. Thats something thats exceedingly rare. Its moving, apparently, at very, very swiftly. Im not personally familiar with illinois criminal procedure. Their expungement procedures may be able to move that quickly. But in my experience, having an expungeabili expungement go through quickly is remarkable and unusual. It shows the prosecution must have seen something wrong, did the right thing, went for a moved to dismiss and gave the defendant back to his life. I dont want to sound naive, but how is it the Chicago Police<\/a> department has a News Conference<\/a> like they had, reversing judgment on Jussie Smollett<\/a> a couple weeks ago, to this. How does that even happen in our current Justice System<\/a> . This is a common refrain, which is this, its a human thing. Humans are fallible. At the beginning of an investigation, sometimes people form an opinion early on. When that happens, its natural to have blinders and to get tunnel vision and focus only on one defendant and focus on the facts that are consistent with your early theory of the case. Its natural, it happens. Unfortunately in the criminal Justice System<\/a> when it does happen it can have devastating effects on defendants who are wrongfully accused. For the most part the police do their job right and they get their man. But sometimes they dont. And when they do, its often the result of forming an opinion early on based on the very initial facts and evidence and then refusing to reexamine that theory of the case as new evidence comes to light. Again, youre seeing still images here of Jussie Smollett<\/a> on one side of your screen, the other side is outside of the courthouse where he just was where all charges were dropped. The case was expunged and all records will be immediately sealed. Were awaiting a statement from Jussie Smollett<\/a>. We have conversation hell be speaking. Well bring that to you as quickly as possible. Jumping off the question i just talked to danny about, which is the Chicago Police<\/a> department. Youve covered investigations like this, although this is quite different. Did the Chicago Police<\/a> department get ahead of itself . I think the key point in this investigation is going to come when the brothers returned from their trip to nigeria and they step off the plane and theyre detained and questioned for 48 hours, and then kind of what they describe as an 11th hour, they turn. They turn on smollett. And then they changed their story . They were not cooperating for a good part of that period. Suddenly they were. And they were. Thats going to be a key point in this case. And then the question is in their interactions not only with police, but also with state prosecutors and the grand jury. If we can learn more about it, it will tell us a lot about what might have gone wrong here. Anne, you have another update for us . This just came in from the cook county state Attorneys Office<\/a>. After reviewing all of the facts and circumstances of the case, including mr. Smolletts volunteer service in the community and agreement to forfeit his bond to the city of chicago, we believe the outcome is a just disposition and appropriate resolution to this case. So what is interesting about this is the prosecutors are talking about his volunteer Community Service<\/a>. Smolletts attorneys are saying there is no Community Service<\/a> attached to the deal. It will be one of the things we need to clear up. Also, there has been a statement, kind of a response from fox, that is the company that produces empire, which is the show that Jussie Smollett<\/a> stars in, youll remember that once these charges happened they announced they were going to reduce his role on empire, and in fact, fox declined comment once he was criminally charged. And chris alexander, who is the executive Vice President<\/a> of Corporate Communications<\/a> for fox sent an email saying many of you have reached out regarding todays developments in the Jussie Smollett<\/a> case. As of this time the studio and network have no comment and theyll let us know if that chan changes. One of the things that will be interesting will be what happens to Jussie Smollett<\/a>s career . Does he get his role back . We have two things to watch for as we await the press conference by mr. Smollett. First of all, is exactly what has happened here. As i said the Prosecutors Office<\/a> is emphasizing that voluntary Community Service<\/a> and the fact he forfeited his bond while his attorneys are saying there is no Community Service<\/a> attached to this. That all the charges were just dropped. Back to you. Eric, i want you to weigh in on annes question there, which is what happens to Jussie Smollett<\/a>. Were awaiting to hear from him right now. Ative depends on what we hear from him. From what we know all charges are dropped from him. Did he get his career back . Does he bounce back from this . I think we see here why fox moves very slowly and cautiously in terms of how they dealt with smolletts presence on empire. They removed him from the last two episodes of the season but they didnt announce he was fired or was let go from the show. And now we see why. They needed to sit back and let the Legal Process<\/a> play out a bit more. You know, now theyre in a situation where i would think it would be hard legally to justify letting him go. And, you know, as sad as it is to say, this renewed attention to him, particularly if facts come to light and he winds up being exonerated, will bring more attention to him, bring more attention to the character, bring more attention to the show. And bring more attention to the issues that the character represents on the show, where the character is often the conscious of the show and talks about people of color and gay people and black culture. I think if this turns out the way it seems its going to come out and the police wipe his record clean and they essentially say hes blameless in this, that his career will resume and may even get a bit of a boost. Danny i want you to weigh in on the state attorneys statement. Ill quickly review it so you know it. After reviewing all the facts and circumstances of the case they said including smolletts volunteer service in the community and agreement to forfeit his bond to the city of chicago, we believe this outcome is a judge disposition and appropriate resolution to this case. Your thoughts, danny . The part about forfeiting his bond and his Community Service<\/a> would appear to imply hes done some kind of penance, which isnt consistent with a complete and full dismissal. It could be that the prosecution is hedging their bets, that they dont want to commit to saying, hey, were completely dismissing the case because we made a massive mistake. So instead theyre saying, you know, something a little more bet hedging by being in the middle. Saying, well, weve looked at his Community Service<\/a> and we think this is a fair outcome because i mean, perhaps it could be a statement designed to insulate them from section 1983, a wrongful arrest or wrongful imprisonment civil claim that could come down the pike later on. Its hard to divine what they mean by that statement other than agreeing with smolletts attorneys. I think this well get a little more texture to as the minutes wear on. Can we be confident well never really know the details of this case, considering the fact the records are going to be sealed except for what mr. Smollett chooses to share with us in his statement were awaiting now . Yes, its likely. Generally expungement deals with court records. It deals with the public filings. Its designed to protect people who have been wrongfully arrested or whose cases have been dismissed. It does not delete out necessarily the paper files in the Police Department<\/a> or even in the district Attorneys Office<\/a>. But at least as to public findings, things you and i can sit down and find on the internet, it will wipe those clean. The actual case investigative file may live on in paper form somewhere in the catacombs of the Police Department<\/a>. In terms of publicly available information, thats all that will be available to us, the story that Jussie Smollett<\/a> tells us. It seems like a lot of people are being exonerated and a lot of records not being shared with the public. Just saying. For those people that are just joining us and not necessarily up to date on what to place in regards to Jussie Smollett<\/a> and the brothers as to what happened. Take us through a little bit of what you know about the chain of events that took place with regards to this case. It starts with the attack itself. Jussie smollett, there were immediate reports he had been attacked. That this was racially motivated. That there were gay and racial slurs yelled. He showed up with a noose around his neck. And so that was what kind of set off this huge social media reaction. Immediate reaction. People weighing in. Chicago p. D. Got involved. There was initial interview at the scene, a follow up by detectives. Then detectives worked outwards from, okay, what you usually do is you canvass the area and look for video. There was nothing that showed the attack itself. And they worked out with concentric circles trying to put people at the scene at the time. Looking for witnesses. Within a few days, they released what appeared to be what they said were persons of interest. There were two figures shot from behind in a black and White Security<\/a> video. Then they continued to work to see if there was video from these other areas that would at least in terms of time and place put somebody at the scene for this attack. One of the reasons the brothers became part of this implicated in this, is that they were able to kind of put them at the scene and trace them back from the ride share to the airport. And so, again, that key point when they arrived and theres an interview and everything changes. Yeah. I know were hearing from the smollett family now after the turn of the events. What are they saying . Here it is. It just came here. As you can imagine its very supportive of Jussie Smollett<\/a>. The familys statement says our son and brother is san innocent man whose name and character has been unsmeared. Jussie is a genuine soul who would never be capable of what he was falsely accused of. He was a victim of an assault and falsely blamed for his own attack. This morning intruthe truth has prevailed and hes been vindicated. All charges has been dismissed. The painful incidents weve witnessed him endure over the past seven weeks have been heart breaking and unjust to say the least. While many were quick to rush to judgment before hearing the actual truth, we are grateful that the truth about jussie has come to light. We look forward to bringing the real perpetrators to justice. We thank god for our village and standing by us during this trying time. And then just back to the issue of the bond that Jussie Smollett<\/a> had to post when he was first charged with these crimes, his bail was posted at 100,000. He had to post the 10,000 cash bond and apparently the city of chicago will keep that. Jasmine . Paul butler, a former federal prosecutor, i want to bring you now into the conversation as well. Again, Jussie Smollett<\/a>, all charges dropped against him. The case is going to be expunged as weve been talking about for the past 45 minutes. All these records will be immediately sealed. His family is very happy about this. The state Attorneys Office<\/a> basically saying that mr. Smolletts volunteer service in the community and agreement to forfeit his bond to the city of chicago, all of that the circumstances of the case and they believe this outcome is just and appropriate. And a resolution to this case. Give me your reaction to what weve been hearing today . The official legal term for this is wow. Yeah. What a stunning turn of events. Its like something that would happen on mr. Smolletts tv show, empire. So when a prosecutor drops charges, it doesnt necessarily mean she thinks the defendant is innocent. She could drop the charges because shes learned information about the defendant, perhaps his health or some other circumstance that makes a criminal resolution inappropriate. Or they may have developed concerns to doubt the credibility of some of the witnesses in the case. Whats really significant, though, is that apparently mr. Smolletts record will be expunged. There wont be any formal legal record of this proceeding. Prosecutors rarely do that. And so, you know, this week has been about transparency and prosecutorial decisions. Why did attorney general barr and mr. Rosenstein elect not to further pursue the obstruction of justice case against the president . We dont know. Prosecutors dont have to be transparent. We dont know why the prosecutors elected to drop these charges against mr. Smollett. Hopefully well find out. I asked danny this question and i want to pose this question to you. Should there be transparency in this case . Should we find out whats happening . Who is it thats being protected in the lack of transparency . Its a great question. The prosecutor is the most unregulated actor in our criminal Legal Process<\/a>. She has unregulated actor in our criminal Legal Process<\/a>. She has more power than judges because she gets to decide what to charge and what not to charge. There is no judge, not even on the supreme court, that could make this prosecutor bring charges. Thats fine, but when prosecutors stand up in court, they say they represent the people. Then theres a responsibility for the people whom they represent to know the basis of their decisions. But if the prosecution made a mistake here, if there was an issue with the prosecution and the way in which they went about this investigation, especially really putting Jussie Smollett<\/a> on blast, shall i say, at that press conference, then why is it we dont know what they did . Thats the only way we correct problems in the system. Thats exactly right. Here, not just the prosecutor, the police chief in that press conference the day that mr. Smollett was charged, was outraged. He was more emotional, i would say, then ive ever seen a police chief including on cases that are much more serious than that. Even the judge in mr. Smolletts arraignment said if these charges are true, then its despicable. He told mr. Smollett, youre entitled to a presumption of innocence, but. No judge should ever say youre entitled to a presumption of innocence but. Its important for even prosecutors and Police Officers<\/a> to avoid rushes to judgment, to make sure the evidence and charges will stand up in a court of law. We dont know what the basis of this decision is but if its that the evidence isnt as good as they claimed it was, the city of chicago, the police chief, and the judge in his indictment owes mr. Smollett an apology. You were with me i believe on sunday talking about the Mueller Probe<\/a> and here we are talking about Jussie Smollett<\/a> just a couple of days later, oh, how the news changes pretty quickly, to say the least. Give me your reaction so far as to what youve been hearing. It sure does, it sure does. This is surprising on one hand and not surprising on the other. Its surprising in the sense where, as professor butler just outlined, you had a police chief, you had a judge, you had so many people sort of coming down on jussie and saying that, you know, he was charged with a 16count indictment and what he had done was so terrible. But on the other hand, and this is something i wrote about in an article i wrote for essence. Com, chicago pd is known for basically having problems in terms of being, you know, forthright and truthful. While his allegations may have been met with support, concern, whatever, it just was surprising to me that no one questioned the manner in which information was leaked, once this incident occurred. The indictment appeared to be excessive, it appeared to be vin particul dictive. Professor butler was right that it didnt appear to be that serious compared to other crimes. You would have thought five or six people had been killed, although that was not the case. The indictment included one count for each alleged lie that smollett told police during his two interviews. The grand jury essentially counted each part of his story individually. And whats interesting too is Jussie Smollett<\/a>s attorney mark geragos just yesterday was named as an unindicted coconspirator in the extortion case against attorney Michael Avenatti<\/a>. The timing was good for this because there were questions whether his representation by mark geragos would taint him as a defendant. The timing is good for him, he gets to walk away from this unscathed, which i think is truly, truly good. But again, you know, youre talking about a Chicago Police<\/a> department thats already been struggling with a sullied reputation after Police Officer<\/a> Jason Van Dyke<\/a> was found guilty of shooting 17yearold black teen Laquan Mcdonald<\/a>. There was an extensive coverup. When it came to truthtelling and when it came to, you know, being the shining light of truthfulness, the chicago pd unfortunately was not it. But i cant imagine, when youre pointing to the situation with Laquan Mcdonald<\/a>, to bring up an example of issues happening with Police Department<\/a>s around the country but our Justice Department<\/a> in general, again, were waiting to hear from Jussie Smollett<\/a>, but we dont necessarily know who is at fault for what took place and why it is we landed where we are, which is charges being dropped and the case being expunged with regard to Jussie Smollett<\/a>. Walk me through some things we know about the Chicago Police<\/a> department. Sure. Theyve been under the gun for a lot of reasons. The police chief we saw at that press conference, he became police chief after there were some changes made because the Laquan Mcdonald<\/a> case was so terrible. But just to give you some background, you know, Jason Van Dyke<\/a> was found guilty of shooting 17yearold black teen Laquan Mcdonald<\/a> and there was an extensive coverup. That officer was sentenced to only three years in prison. Other Chicago Police<\/a> officers were charged with covering up details related to the shooting. Interestingly enough, they were found not guilty. That was the backdrop during the entire time the Jussie Smollett<\/a> case came out. Here you have a Police Department<\/a> known for lying and covering up and yet they were outraged at the fact that Jussie Smollett<\/a> may have lied and covered something up, so the irony was there. I think it sort of underscored the lack of faith and lack of trust that people have in a Police Department<\/a> when they engage in this kind of behavior. People especially that are familiar with the Chicago Police<\/a> department and everything thats taken place there. Im sorry, say this again . I say, also for people who may be familiar with whats taken place with the Chicago Police<\/a> department and are following development there. Thats right. And its important to note here with respect to the chicago pd that the department of trusof j had issued a scathing report around 2017 saying they engaged in Excessive Force<\/a> and unfair treatment of minorities. So here you have the federal government looking at a number of cases that Chicago Police<\/a> department has been involved in, and coming out with that determination. So, you know, the history is there, the backdrop is there. And its important to look at it in the totality of all of those things. Theres been a lot of criticism, andrea, about Police Department<\/a>s across the country, especially with regard to the shootings of unarmed young black men. What is your reaction to being critical of the Chicago Police<\/a> department, is it warranted . Thats why we demand transparency in an incident like this. The superintendent, eddie johnson, of the chicago pd is supposed to brief the media shortly, after a graduation, about their take on this. As far as what happened, either procedurally or substantively in this investigation, whatever is sealed, aside from that, the institutions owe the public an explanation as to why this case might have gone south for them. Was it because of something that happened during the latter stages of the investigation with the brothers . Because, again, the superintendent was very clear about what he said, that Jussie Smollett<\/a> paid the brothers to stage an attack. So what about that . What about that moment in time . What comes next . But as far as the history of this department and why it demands such, you know, kind of a complete explanation, thats what we should see. But not only this Chicago Police<\/a> department. Also prosecutors, the Illinois State<\/a> Attorneys Office<\/a> should at least explain in Broad Strokes<\/a> what happened here. And were being told Jussie Smollett<\/a> will be approaching the camera pretty soon, at any moment well go to him. Do i still have Danny Cevallos<\/a> . Yes, you do. Danny, what are you expecting to hear from mr. Smollett . Im going to expect to hear exactly his narrative from the outset, which was that essentially from him, that he didnt do anything wrong. He has been at least consistent throughout this entire ordeal. And i just want to add that there are going to be calls for transparency after smolletts dismissal here. But i have to warn that in the criminal Justice System<\/a>, transparency is not an absolute good. We have rules for sealing an expungement that protect citizens who are wrongfully charged with a crime. Even though we may be curious as to what happened and why the Police Arrived<\/a> at this decision, we must also be careful to safeguard the privacy rights of defendants whose cases have been dismissed or who have been acquitted so that they can go on with their lives and not have this hanging over their head. Thats something that we need to consider Going Forward<\/a>. Eric, as we await jussie here, what are you hoping to hear from him . Eric, do i still have you . Hello, can you see me . Can we hear eric . Okay. Can you see me . Eric, i can hear you. Okay. As we await jussie to approach these cameras, weve been given a couple of minutes warning here, what are you hoping to hear from him . Well, of course like everyone im hoping to hear some information that will shed some light on why the police made the decision that they made. A lot of the previous folks youve talked to have made the excellent point that a lot of people want to know how to feel about this, a lot of people want to know whether this is a situation where they didnt prosecute him because","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia800904.us.archive.org\/20\/items\/MSNBCW_20190326_150000_MSNBC_Live_With_Craig_Melvin\/MSNBCW_20190326_150000_MSNBC_Live_With_Craig_Melvin.thumbs\/MSNBCW_20190326_150000_MSNBC_Live_With_Craig_Melvin_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240617T12:35:10+00:00"}