Biden campaign, Vaughn Hillyard with the Buttigieg Campaign. All three are eating well, in the charleston area, in the low country. Mike, ill start with you, with the Biden Campaign. The former Vice President has pointed to the palmetto state as his firewall. The last few polls have shown Bernie Sanders gaining crowned on him there. What is the argument that joe biden is making to voters there to try and pull off a win . Reporter well, craig, yes, we are eating well here in charleston. We look forward to seeing you here in a couple days. The biden argument here in South Carolina is a big picture one nationally and also very much a local argument. Ill start with the local argument. We just heard from the Vice President in a section eight community releasing his Affordable Housing plan. He was raising the point that South Carolina has one of the highest eviction rates in the country. He wants to expand on section eight housing funding, but also provide legal representation to any tenants facing eviction. Thats a policy that has been already put forward in legislation by jim clyburn. Craig, you know, you helped break this story last night, that the powerful king maker here of South Carolina democrats, jim clyburn will, in fact, endorse joe biden, an important vote of confidence for his campaign. Bidens argument is a bigpicture one. Where hes sharpening his argument against Bernie Sanders, that clear frontrunner in this race. Hes talking about bidens campaign seizing on comments sanders made to 60 minutes last night where he couldnt account for every nickel of how much his plans would cost. Biden saying you need to be straightforward with voters. Hes also talking about electability, who can best take on donald trump. He talked about that with kasie hunt last night. Lets take a listen. Do you think Bernie Sanders is capable of beating donald trump . I think it would be id like whomever the democratic is to beat donald trump. Id vote for mickey mouse. Sure. But do you think i dont think he can beat donald trump and keep a Democratic Senate, get a Democratic Senate and keep a democratic house. Reporter we talk about the timing of that endorsement from jim clyburn, craig. Its likely to be wednesday, the day after the next democratic debate, an important onetwo punch for joe biden as he needs to put up a big win in South Carolina. Mike memoli in charleston. Shaq, Bernie Sanders coming off the big win in nevada. Hes got the delegate lead, the momentum heading into South Carolina and super tuesday. What scrutiny is he facing now ahead of tomorrows debate where the other candidates are likely going to try to be hitting him . Reporter craig, its only starting to increase and increasing more from these candidates who previously a f voided senator sanders, but now seemingly leaning into those contrasts. It was on saturday as senator sanders was going around texas. He saw big crowds in texas over the course of the weekend. It was on saturday during Election Night when you heard from mayor Pete Buttigieg going after senator sanders for about six minutes saying senator sanders forces a choice between a revolution and the status quo. Youre hearing people go after comments he made last night talking about castro and praising areas of work that castro did while condemning the larger regime. You also heard mike memoli mention the attack coming from the Biden Campaign about the price tag of certain policy proposals. Listen to the moment theyre referring to. Do you know how much, though, do you have a price tag for all this . We do. The price tag is it will be substantially less than letting the Current System go. I think about 30 trillion. Thats just medicare for all . Yes. Do you have a price tag for all these things . No. You mentioned making public colleges and University Free and canceling student debt. Thats true. Thats what i want to do. We pay for that through a modest tax on wall street speculation. Reporter i spent a lot of time at the rallies over the weekend. His campaign and supporters say with his frontrunner status, him feeling like theyve won the first three contests, pointing to the popular vote in iowa, they know the knives will be out from some of the other candidates, that the scrutiny an tension of senator sanders will be increased as he has this new position. Craig . Vaughn hillyard, the Buttigieg Campaign coming off a third place finish in nevada. Whats the strategy to try and expand his support among a diverse far more diverse than hes seen so far, in terms of the voting bloc there in South Carolina . Spent some time with mayor pete there. A year ago he was at three or four Percentage Points with black voters. Thats pretty much where he still is. Reporter Pete Buttigieg this afternoon will be at this mcdonalds taking part in the fight for 15. A workers strike here with several mcdonalds workers from this location in charleston. But this is the reality that the Pete Buttigieg campaign finds itself in. In nevada, when you look at the drans polling there, he was registering at just about 2 , 3 of support among merrick voters in nevada and just about 10 of support among latino voters in nevada. Thats an increase from where he started one year ago and over the course of this campaign. But now hes coming to South Carolina where 60 of the democratic electorate is supposed to be consisting of africanamerican voters. We were actually back in december we were in allen dale county. This was the smallest and the poorest county here in the state. Its also about 75 black. Pete buttigieg went into this rural county and was contending to the voters at this time that he understood he was new to the scene but he wanted to listen, wanted to understand their communities and wanted to share his own experiences in south bend. What youre looking at is the reality he has five days to do this. Wilma robinson said you dont have to be black to understand the communities but you have to have experience and know us. Bernie sanders and joe biden have been doing this a lot longer. Five days is not a lot of time for him to pull this off. Id like to bring in jefr weaver, adviser to the Bernie Sanders campaign. Lets start in South Carolina. Coming off stopping formz z by sanders in the first three contests. The New York Times reports it this way. Mr. Sanders plans to be up on the air with commercials in every South Carolina media market this week and his staff is scrambling to add new rallies to his schedule as they take aim at their next big target, overtaking the frontrunner in saturdays primary there, former Vice President biden to all but extinguish his candidacy. Is that the goal for South Carolina, jeff, to knock joe biden out of this race . Craig, we try to win every contest. Were three for three so far. South carolina is a little bit of a bigger list for us because we didnt do as well there as the other three states we had back in 2016. Weve got a great team on the ground. Weve got obviously up on the air and on television, sending out mail to folks, and weve been on the ground in South Carolina since the very beginning of this campaign. I think really making a lot of inroads. Lets talk about that 60 minutes conversation last night. Bernie sanders wants to provide medicare for all, which has an estimated price tag of around 30 trillion. Hes promising Free Public College tuition, wants to cancel student debt. Today he released a plan for free child care and prek for all. How does Bernie Sanders plan to pay for all of this considering we just heard him say to 60 minutes he doesnt have a price tag for his plans . What they asked for is can you add them all up in the aggregate. Each individual plan is paid for. The child care plan you talked about, prek is paid for by a wealth tax. The free public tuition and canceling student debt is paid for with a small tax on wall street speculative trades. Medicare for all is paid for in a variety of ways. You say 30 trillion. As you know, the Current System, if we do nothing or do what joe biden wants or Pete Buttigieg wants is going to cost the American Economy 50 trillion. Senator sanders is saving a substantial amount of money for the American People by getting rid of the excesses that the Drug Companies are charging, getting rid of the profit earring, getting rid of administrative waste that we spend Health Care Dollars on health care and not bureaucracy and greed. Twothirds of democrats in the senate havent signed off on the medicare for all. Twothirds of the voters who went into the nevada caucuses signed onto it. There was a lot of attacks on medicare for all in nevada, as you well know, from a lot of sources including other candidates, certainly doubling down on it. When they did the entrance polls at the nevada caucuses, over 60 of the folks who walked in there said they would get rid of private Health Insurance and go to aa medicare for all system. The senate is one thing. The American People is another thing. We know that. Washington is disconnected from the American People. Your candidate would be one of the oldest president s ever elect elected. In september he said he would release his medical records. He suffered a heart attack back in november. This is what sanders said after the heart attack about his medical records. Heres what he said. People do have a right to know about the health of a senator and somebody running for president of the united states. Full disclosure. We will make, at the appropriate time, all of our medical records public for you and anybody else who wants to see them. The first concern i think people have is to understand what was going on before were going to reveal information dribble by dribble. We will release all you think this is a fair obviously youre doing this interview with me. Its a fair conversation to be having about health. Of course it is. Absolutely. The campaign in december released letters from his doctors who said sanders is fit to serve as president. There are the letters there. As you know, jeff, those are not comprehensive medical records explaining his health history. The senator has no plans to release those full medical records. Jeff, has senator sanders, has he had any other cardiac events that have not been reported . Absolutely not. Look, lets be clear. Dr. Gupta has looked at those letters from the doctors which include one of the letters is from the attending physician of the u. S. Congress who has been senator sanders primary care physician for 29 years and lists every condition hes ever had. The other two letters are from a cardiologist who are actively monitoring senator sanders condition and give elaborate detail in their letters as well. Dr. Gupta said that the information thats in those letters really gives once a sense essentially gives a sense of what his health is right now. Hes released as much as anybody else has in this race. Hes also the only candidate who has had a heart attack in the race. Thats true. Other people have had stenthad issues. Michael bloomberg had stents. Joe biden had issues. He runs those reporters ragged on the road. Bernie sanders served in the house from 1991 to 2007. Hes been in the senate ever since, almost 30 years in washington by my account. His rivals have said in that time senator sanders has accomplished very little from a legislative perspective. Can you name major legislation that Bernie Sanders has introduced that has been passed into law . I sure can. He worked hand in glove with john mccain to pass the largest reform of Veterans Health care in decades. He added tens or millions of dollars i think 11 billion for Community Health centers working with jim clyburn from South Carolina, to vastly expand health care for people in urban areas and rural areas. In a bipartisan way, he just passed legislation, the first time in the history of congress, passed legislation that would use the war powers act to stop President Trump from continuing his efforts, unauthorized efforts in the war in yemen. On and on it goes. He has a vast legislative record. He operated with republicans in the house and democrats, liberate democrats and conservative republicans to stop some of the excesses of the patriot act in terms of Peoples Library records. Passed a cancer registries bill so he could better track cancer across the country. He has a vast legislative record. We could have a threehour show going over his legislative record. There is talks, as you know, of a brokered convention considering the size of the democratic field, the fact that folks arent dropping out like perhaps some folks thought they would by now. You know the magic number. If senator sanders walks into the convention with a plurality of delegates but not the 1,991 needed, will he let the process play out or will he demand the nomination . There is a process. The process has to play out. The question is what the players within that process decide to do. If senator sanders walks in there or, frankly, if joe biden walks in there, joe biden walks in there, Pete Buttigieg, Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar i dont think it will be Michael Bloomberg because he demonstrated on the stage last week that hes unfit to serve. If any of those other folks walk in with the plurality and the voters have spoken, the voters should be heeded. There was concerned express yesterday by congressman jim clyburn of South Carolina that, if Bernie Sanders were the nominee, it would make it virtually impossible to keep the house and next to impossible to take the senate. He would do that much damage down ballot. What do you say to that . I have Great Respect for congressman clyburn. I think we have a fundamental disagreement here. I think if you look at how senator sanders is doing in general election polling, both against other democrats and against President Trump, hes clearly very popular with the general election electorate, and i think hes going to do what he did in nevada. What youll see happening in other places, hell bring out young people, young people of color. Hes going to bring a lot of working class people back into the party who supported President Trump before but defected to trump in 2016. Hes going to bring those people back into the party and it will not only benefit him, but democrats up and down the ballot, not just in washington, sheriffs, state legislators, governors, lieutenant governors all across this country. Jeff weaver, well leave it there. Thank you for your time, sir. Thank you. Thanks for having me. The candidates know the magic number, 1,991. Thats the number of delegates you need to clinch the nomination. Who has the widest path to it . Who has the most narrow path . Who doesnt have a path at all . Steve kornacki standing by to break it down for us at the big wall. Also, king maker. The most powerful democratic in South Carolina, congressman jim clyburn set to endorse joe biden later this week. Is that the boost that bide dn needs heading into saturdays primary . Hi guys. This is the Chevy Silverado with the worlds first invisible trailer. Invisible trailer . And its not the trailer right next to us . This guy . You dont believe me . Hop in. Good lookin pickup, i will say that. Oh wow. Silverado offers an Optional Technology package with up to 15 different views including one enhanced view that makes your trailer appear invisible. Wow. Thats pretty sweet. Thats cool. Oooohh thats awesome. Whered the trailer go . I love it. Its magic. Which of your devices are protected by daily security updates . Daily security updates. Daily . I dont know. The only thing. Im struggling with this. Some providers you have to manually download updates to each device. Comcast business securityedge updates every 10 minutes to help keep your connected devices protected against new ransomware, malware and phishing threats. Every 10 minutes feels pretty good. Get secure, reliable internet and voice for an amazing price. Call today. Comcast business. Beyond fast. The 2020 race for dwell gats is about to kick into overdrive. So far 80 are committed. Bernie sanders has 29, Pete Buttigieg has 25, joe biden has 13, Elizabeth Warren has eight, Amy Klobuchar has seven. You need 1,991 to secure the nomination. On saturday South Carolinas 54 delegates will be up for grabs. It all amounts to a fraction of what we will see a week from tomorrow, super tuesday. 14 states, one territory will vote with more than 1300 delegates at stake. Nbcs Steve Kornacki is here. Tough to understate just how critical this next week will be in the delegate race. What are we looking at . Think about this. Eight days from now, all those delegates youre talking about will be given out. You gave us the overall number. The reason sanders is ahead nationally, this is what happened in nevada. He got 18 delegates so far. There are still nine delegates from nevada yet to be allocated. That sanders number can grow, biden and buttigieg may get one or two more each. What that did nationally, it put sanders ahead nationally with 39. So the question is what happens in South Carolina and beyond . Of course, this is the new poll out of South Carolina. This came from krks yesterday. If there is a bounce for sanders from that performance in nevada, you dont see it in this poll. It was conducted before the nevada caucuses. Biden with a fivepoint advantage. Sanders in second place. There are a total of 54 pledged delegates up for grabs in South Carolina. Remember that 15 cutoff, that looms large in terms of giving out these delegates. We will see what happens here. Then, as you say, it comes to this on super tuesday. Over 1,300 delegates, basically a third of them just from the state of california. I think whats crucial here when you look at california and those 415 pledge delegates are two things, number one. The voting has already started in california. Its been going on for weeks in california. There are a lot of votes that have already been cast in california. So it doesnt matter what happens over the next week in this campaign at the debate in South Carolina. People are already voting out there. The second thing is the Sanders Campaign has been talking about california as a particular strength of theirs. They say because of their support with hispanic voters. In that sense nevada perhaps offered a test of that. Our kpil poll shows sanders won 51 of the hispanic vote in nevada. If that is a harbinger for california and what the Sanders Campaign has been talking about there, the possibility exists in california in particular of sanders getting a very big delegate hall. Strength of hispanic voters could mean big support in texas. The polling there has been tight. Maybe even in colorado. Youve got other scenarios here with different candidates. 1,300 plus eight days from now, craig. Steve, come on over here. I want to bring in maria hinojosa, executive producer of nprs latino usa. Maria, to steves point here, you look at how Bernie Sanders did in nevada, dominating among hispanics with 51 . Took 29 of the white vote, stoked joe biden among black voters, with nearly half of voters who describe themselves as very liberal. These are the entrance polls. 24 of the voters who describe themselves as conservative or moderate. He was the clear favorite, as he has been, since the beginning with young voters. Thats according to nbc news entrance polling. Anyone who can beat Bernie Sanders at this point considering that broad kae ligs of support he seems to have . Im not so sure. I mean at this point, although steve is correct. Its all about super tuesday. Right now i think the lesson of nevada that i hope the Democratic Party is looking at is this is, in fact, what it looks like because the bernie win in nevada was led by latino and latina voters, second to biden in terms of africanamericans, the coalition. It was led by latino voters in many ways. What other candidate right now has that kind of connection with the latino vote . I was not prepared to throw biden out of the water in terms of nevada, but it was his to lose. Bernie sanders, whether or not its considered a movement, hes got an extraordinary organization and hes got incredible enthusiasm. So if youve got that. Whats the specific appeal . Whats the unique appeal of bernie to hispanic voters specifically . I think that what im hearing, because i spend a lot of the weekend hearing, reporting, what im hearing is they were targeting them. They were going after these voters. In other words, lets just take nevada. Theyve been working for four years to try to make this happen. Its not like they just started. California, theyve been working for years on this. They have a real machine, if you will. The appeal i think is one people feel whether theyre younger or older, they feel theyre being spoken to by bernie. In other words, doorknocking was happening. It is happening now. They appreciate that. Some people say we like the fact weve seen his ads in spanish. I dont know how much that matters in terms of whether or not he speaks spanish or not, but i think theres also this element of young latinos and latinas, and theyre passing it to their parents which is [ speaking spanish ], were up to here with this. They seem to be saying, we want to throw it all out and go with the most radical choice which is Bernie Sanders. Ala what many voters did three years ago on the other side. Steve, other than Bernie Sanders who is leading by every other measure, who has the most staying power, if you will . Immediately its joe biden. You look at that poll in South Carolina, a poll taken by nevada, but up by five in South Carolina. Biden has been talking for months about africanamerican voters being his strongest base of support. Looking at an electorate in South Carolina that will be 60 plus black. There is a question there can biden rally the troops for one stand in South Carolina. If he could get a win there, if he could demonstrate Strong Performance with black voters, could that have a ripple ef flkt that goes over to super tuesday and helps them there . If theres somebody youre looking at to take a shot at sanders, you can say its biden, having a shot in South Carolina. If joe biden wins South Carolina by three or four points, is that really a win . Thats the thing. You no who hasnt been spending money in South Carolina . Its bloomberg. If its a narrow victory for biden, he gets to get on the board. A couple days later hes in states against a guy who is dropping 20 million on the airwaves and getting support in the polls with who biden has been targeting. That sanders number encroaching on biden in South Carolina, if i was biden, i would be looking at that. A fivepoint difference between sanders and biden where it should be ten points. I was at the gym this morning up in harlem and talking politics with my bros out there. As one does at the gym. As one does. Who do you like . Im thinking sanders now. It could all change. Maria, thank you. Mr. Kornacki, thank you as well. Not sure when youre sleeping. Not the season for it. South carolina starting to look more and more like joe bidens not just firewall but perhaps last best hope. Jim clyburn set to hand him a huge endorsement this week. Will it be enough . First, an update on the coronavirus as italy records its fifth coronavirusrelated death becoming the worst hit european country so far. 79,000 cases being reported in at least 29 Different Countries around the world. And right now in investors are worried the spread of the virus is starting to take a toll on the global economy. A live look here at the stock market. It took a nosedive early. It has not recovered much. The dow down by roughly 850 points. Upbeat music transitions light under control. Upbeat music transitions signature gen 8, available now in 4 new style colors. Transitions. When the first snow fell, the kids went sledding right there. This used to be a shed. Now, its where they get breakfast. This is more than just land. Its home. The frels family runs with us on a john deere 1 series tractor. This land isnt the only thing which you live on for generations. Nothing runs like a deere. Search john deere 1 series for more. Get a 1 series tractor starting at 99 per month. While the middleclass continues to struggle. Thats what happens when billionaires are able to control the political system. Our campaign is funded by the working people of this country, and those are the people that i will represent. No more tax breaks for billionaires. We are going to guarantee health care to all people and create up to 20 million good paying jobs to save this planet. Im Bernie Sanders and i approve this message because we need an economy that works for all of us, not just wealthy campaign contributors. Over weekend two people in the know connell firmed that joe biden is about to get one of the most coveted endorsements money cannot buy in South Carolina. Congressman jim clyburn will announce that biden is his guy and the best candidate to take on trz. Speech writer, associate director for Public Engagement in the obama white house. A big thanks to both of you. Gentleman lisa, let me start with you. Is clyburns decision now to endorse, is it a sign that even longtime allies like jim clyburn are worried that joe biden couldnt win on saturday . Well, craig, again, thank you for having me on. As you know, congressman clyburn is well respected in the state of South Carolina and throughout the country. There are still a lot of undecided voters in South Carolina, and i think congressman clyburns endorsement is signaling to those folks who havent decided yet and respect congressman clyburn, now signaling to them who hes getting behind and who they should also get behind in the primary. We should also point out that he also endorsed your former boss, onetime boss Hillary Clinton as well some years ago. Jesse, clyburn said this weekend South Carolina voters may have been disappointed in joe bidens early debate performances, but well see a different biden on stage tomorrow night. Do you agree with the analysis that South Carolina a mustwin for joe biden . Definitely a mustwin for joe biden. Its interesting, obviously they have a long Vice President biden and congressman clyburn have a long relationship. Whats interesting about the timing of this and how it may play out, its crystallizing a new choice emerging thats not between candidates. Pretty soon its going to feel like, is it Bernie Sanders or is it a brokered convention . It feels a little more like we may look back on this like congressman clyburn really endorsed a brokered convention, looking back. What makes you think that . Just because its getting to the point now where if were not coalesced around one wing of the party, its going to keep staying chopped up on that end and Bernie Sanders is going to keep driving 27, 30 in a lot of these super tuesday states to victories. Hes going to start really racking up delegates come super tuesday. Thats assuming that this bloomberg factor doesnt play some role that im not smart enough to understand which is, of course, possible. But its really a question of is there someone, someone who is going to stand on the moderate end of the party and really oppose Bernie Sanders. Right now i dont see that happening. Stand by for me. Breaking news ive got to get to. The jury in the Harvey Weinstein trial apparently has reached a verdict were being told. We do not know at this point what that verdict is, but again, right now we can tell you that the jury in Harvey Weinsteins rape trial, that jury has returned a verdict. Youll recall on friday they told the judge that they were basically almost hung. They had several questions and the judge sent them back to deliberate more. Again at this hour theres a verdict. Ron allen is outside the courthouse here in new york city. Ron allen, what more do we know and at that point do we know when were going to find out what that verdict is . Reporter were going to find out very soon. I do not think the jury has come back yet. They sent out their 12th note saying they reached a verdict. Weinstein faces five felony Sexual Assault charges, related charges including rape. The two charges that everyone is watching most closely perhaps are charges of being a sexual predator. Those are allegations that, if hes convicted of them, could send him to prison for the rest of his life. Some of the other charges of rape in the first degree and Sexual Assault in the first degree carry probation to 25 years. Now, youre right. Late friday afternoon the jury came back and said they were hung on the two sexual predator charges, but they reached a unanimous decision, they seemed to indicate in their question to the judge, on the three other charges. So that led to speculation. The prosecution, of course, wanted the jury to press forward because they really want the sexual predator charge which means he has assaulted at least two women. The defense was ready to take what they could, thinking that if he was found guilty of one of the lesser charges that perhaps getting a hung jury on the more serious charges would be in their favor. But again, at this point were waiting to see what happens in the courtroom. At this point the producers are up there, going to be allowed to transmit the verdict live as it happens, but again, i dont know right now whether the jury has come back or not or just how much time theyre going to take before we get to the actual verdict. Obviously, craig, this is a huge decision. This is one of the first cases of the me too generation. Women activists across the country are watching to see how this case is handled, how a jury handles this particular case. It involves allegations from two women, two women who claim they were assaulted by Harvey Weinstein, one, miriam haley, Production Assistant who claims he was sexually assaulted back in 2006, the other, jessica mann, an aspiring actress who says Harvey Weinstein raped her at a hotel room in new york back in 2014. Those are the two maniac cuesers. This case was unique or unusual in that, in trying to prove this predatory sexual charge, the prosecution was allowed to introduce testimony from four other women, four other accusers whose cases for the most part were too old to prosecute in their own right. One of those cases involved the actress anabela ski ora, a rape case that goes back to 1993 or 94. That case combined with the other two, each separately its a little complicated is what gets us to these sexual predator charges. So when the jury came out on friday and said they were apparently hung on the predator charges, that involved we thought the case of annabelle la sciorra, the sopranos actress, also known for the movie jungle fever. Were trying to read the guidance as were talking to you. We do not know yet exactly what the jury has said, guilty or not. Again, there was the indication when they said they were unanimous on the three other charges, not the predator charges, that indicated to me that they have found him guilty on at least one count. Because to consider the predator charges, they had to find him guilty of the underlying charges, of the main charges. Again, some speculation based on the questions that the jurors were asked and were asking of the judge. This is a very, very engaged jury. They were sent doubt as many as a dozen questions. Some of the questions to the judge came within 45 minutes or so of being seated as a jury because the case has some very complicated elements. The sexual predator charge, for example, and the fact that there is a case attached to it that is too old to prosecute in its own right. Thats what makes this case somewhat complicated. Again, the bottom line is that there is every indication based on the questions for the jury that weinstein has been found guilty on at least one charge. Prosecutors really wanted the jury to go back. They wanted them to work out, as did the judge, because the prosecution really hopes and really wants pressing for the jury to find weinstein guilty of one of these two sexual predator charges. So here we are. We wait. Craig . This is a jury of seven men and five women, as you pointed out, ron. Its also a jury that has been quite engaged, if you will, asking a number of questions. We should also point out that while this trial is about two women, two accusers, Harvey Weinstein has been accused publicly by more than 100 women of various forms of Sexual Misconduct ranging from unwanted touching to rape, but again, right now in this new york city courtroom, he is facing five felly counts for alleged nonconsensual encounters stemming from the accusations of two women in particular, mimi haley and jessica mann. Harvey weinstein for his part has denied all nonconsensual sex from the very beginning. We also know that just a few hours ago the defense attorney did request a mistrial, but apparently the judge in this case, judge james burke, dismissed that. The jurors have returned a verdict. That much we know at this point. Were waiting to find out precisely what that verdict is. There is not a come rah in the courtroom, but we do have our ron allen outside the courtroom, and were also working to convene a number of our legal experts as well to try to help us make some sense of what Harvey Weinstein could be facing here in terms of prison time. But again, Harvey Weinstein maintaining that any Sexual Conduct was consensual. The pros cues asked jurors to find him guilty. At one point one of the prosecutors said that weinsteins accusers were merely ants that he could step on without consequences. Thats a direct quote. His lead defense attorney did write an oped for Newsweek Magazine over the weekend which is very unusual. The oped over the weekend implored jurors to do what they know is right. Count i one rks , not guilty of predator Sexual Assault. Count two, criminal Sexual Assault, guilty. Count iii, predator Sexual Assault, not guilty. Count iv, rape, first degree, not guilty. Count five, rape third degree, guilty. Again thats the word from inside the courthouse just a few moments ago. I was repeating that as it was being shared with me. So im going to go back to ron allen right now who is outside that courthouse to debrief us on what all that means. Ron, theres a mix of guilty and not guilty. Try, if you can, to help us make some sense over what we just reported again. Count i, predator Sexual Assault not guilty. Count two, criminal sexual act first degree guilty. Count iii, predator Sexual Assault, not guilty. Fount four, rape first degree not guilty. Count five, rape third degree, guilty. Our legal analyst Danny Cevallos is here. Ron, add to it if you can. The prosecution is going to have mixed feelings about this. The two highest charges of predator Sexual Assault he has been found not guilty of. He has been found guilty of criminal sexual act against miriam haley who is the Production Assistant who back in 2006 claims that Harvey Weinstein assaulted her in his apartment when she came for what she thought was a business meeting. Again, he is found guilty of that. Not guilty of the second predator Sexual Assault charge involving the actress jessica mann, aspiring actress jessica mann and actress anna ski ora. Found guilty of rape in the third degree of jessica mann, aspiring actress, who claims Harvey Weinstein attacked her in a hotel room in new york. Also facing a first degree rape charge in that particular case. That was not a not guilty verdict as well. So the prosecutors have found him guilty of arguably the least of the charges which will be disappointing, but hes been found guilty of the criminal sexual act in tagainst mimi haly which carries probation up to 25 years. The third degree rape charge i believe carries a sentence up to ten years or so. Again, a lot of emotion in the courtroom as this verdict was read. A lot of emotion out here as well in the streets. Everyone watching this very closely. But the bottom line is that this predator Sexual Assault charge was very, very difficult for the prosecution to prove. It relates to Rape Allegation that goes back to 1993 or 94, nearly 30 years. And the underlying charges, the other cases that he was facing he was found guilty of criminal sexual act against mimi haley, but the prosecution could not essentially double up those charges and get the jury to convict of predator Sexual Assault. Were waiting to see what happens now. Were waiting to see i would guess because he is convicted of this first degree sexual act, that weinstein will probably be taken into custody. He, of course, has been coming in and out of the courtroom every day with his legal entourage, quite a showdown here. But given hes been found guilty of these two counts, i would expect the prosecution will argue for him to be held in custody and, of course, we know he faces several more charges out in los angeles now that this part of it is over. Ron, stand by if you can, sir. Danny cevallos has joined me, msnbc legal analyst. Guilty on rape and committing a criminal sexual act, as i understand it. Rape third degree. Is this a victory for the defense . Is this a victory for the prosecution . Or is this a split decision . You could say its a split decision. A victory in the sense for both. For any defendant convicted of crimes this serious, it is a loss. Nothing less than a not guilty walk anything other would have been a loss for Harvey Weinstein in this case. You have guilty of rape in the third degree. Thats just no consent. The jury couldnt conclude there was force used against jessica mann but they did conclude theres an absence of consent. Thats an important distinction. The other thing to keep in mind is to find not guilty on both predator Sexual Assaults means as a whole, at least unanimously, the jury did not believe annabella sciorra, not that they didnt believe something happened. Its an interesting case because shes charged her crime shes being used for in this case is the predator Sexual Assault. They probably struggled with what burden to apply in deciding whether or not these allegations were true. After all, they were 30 years old. I suspect when you end up talking to the jury afterwards, youll find they struggled with that fact. Some probably thought, yes, we believe her, she told the truth. Others may have thought, look, its 30 years old. I dont know that we can use this to convict him of predator Sexual Assault. We may never know what they deliberated about. I wouldnt be surprised if thats what they were stuck on. Defined from the from the begin did not believe annebella sciorra, they could not find guilty of predatory Sexual Assault. Our chief analyst, melber joins me on the phone. This kicked off the me too era. I know youve been following this closely. What are the takeaways here . What stands out to you the most . Reporter this is a split decision, difficult finding of guilt and culpability. That would be broad even several years ago, but its a split decision. Its one the jury did not all right. Were having some signal issues, it would seem with ari. We will try to get him back up. Actually, i think i have cynthia oxny, a former federal prosecutor. You with me . Im with you. Lets start but you in terms of your takeaways here. Are you at all surprised with what the jury has found here . Im not surprised by the note they did on friday. As a former sex crimes prosecutor, i look at this case, what if i were presenting it. This is a very difficult case. The annebella shiorra case, we did not have a year for that case and does not surprise me they did not do the enhancement for that. The first degree rape conviction is a huge victory. These are victims with consent issues and memory issues and difficulty because they had gone willingly to hotel rooms and people sometimes punish victims for that. I think the first degree rape is a huge victory and third degree rape is a huge victory because that is a person who testified at some point she did have consensual relations with him. If you can get a felony conviction of rain, when the victim stays in contact with the defendant and at some point has actual consensual relations, these jurors believed the relationships were coercive. They believed he had raped these women and stood by them despite difficulties in proof and timing. I know its a split decision. Of course, everybody is right who says that because the top counts, the life counts there were no convictions on. For a 67yearold man who will get 5 to 25 on one and up to four on the other, i would predict he could be stepped back today and go straight to jail, where quite frankly, he belongs. This is a person who has the motive to flee and money to flee and there was some evidence he was tankering with his ankle bracelet during this time period. This is a big win for the prosecution on a very difficult case even though it is intellectually a split decision. For the prosecutors in this case and victims in this case, this is a huge win. Our chief legal correspondent, chief legal analyst, ari melber is back with us now. We had a difficult connection. What were you saying . I was echoing what other analysts have said, this is a very serious set of convictions, a win for prosecutors even a few years ago prosecutors did not feel they had the evidence to make a breakthrough and serious conviction, coming out of the me too era. It is a split decision and the jury clearly weighed each count as they are supposed to do under law but did not find guilty on the most guilty charges but the charges convicted of today are very serious felonies. How will the judge decide the sentence in this case, ari . I think in this case the judge is going to have violent Sexual Assault conviction to assess, and you have an individual who under the actual case presented was doing this on a repeat basis, serial basis and whether he would be a risk to the community and you mentioned whether he would flee and the other guest said he should be put immediately in incarceration and as to the community, whether he should get a heavier sentence. I would expect the judge to look at the options on the heavier side of a sentence here. Will the other women be allowed to testify, as the judge is considering a sentence, the other women who have come forward and accused Harvey Weinstein . That may be the source of some battle between the attorneys in this case. The victims should be allowed to testify at the sentencing. New york sentencing scheme is a little more vague than for example the federal sentencing scheme we all debated the last few days in the roger stone case. That one is much more rigorous, much more formulaic. Harvey weinstein is a first time offenders and in new york as other jurisdictions, firsttime offenders are generally entitled to lighter sentences as opposed to repeat offenders or second or third time offenders. Yes, there are some maximums in this case very serious but i wouldnt expect Harvey Weinstein to max out on any of his sentences, even if all the victims come forward and absolutely crush him when they testify. Will his age be a factor . 67 years old. Will his attorneys work to make that a factor in sentencing . It is and it should be. Statistics show number one, elderly offenders are very likely to reoffend statistically and elderly offenders face the most risk while incarcerated. Some statistics show you lose a year of your life every year youre incarcerated. You can expect the attorneys to make that judgment. An elderly defendant like Harvey Weinstein, im not making a value judgment on his age, what the statistics consider elderly, those offenders should be dealt with somewhat more leniently than a 21, 25yearold offender because statistically those offenders are more likely to reoffend. And, of course, Harvey Weinsteins attorney will appeal the decision. Where will he be pending that . Its up to the judge to decide whether or not he will be remanded. I expect he will be remand and have to start serving his sentence. Based on what . These are such serious charges. If youre looking at a sentence one or two, the judge may consider letting you sit out while you appeal your case but in a case like this with real years to the sentence with, the judge isnt as likely to let the defendant stay out on bail while appealing. If judges did that you would have a lot of convicted criminals out on bail that could take years if not decades. Thats a policy reason underpinning that choice. A live look a few moments ago, a collection of microphones. We are expecting that we will hear from the prosecutors in this case at some point here in the next few minutes. When that happens, we will of course go to it live. Cynthia, former federal prosecutor, is also standing by. Cynthia, were still waiting to get some word from inside that courtroom in terms of color. Was there a reaction from Harvey Weinstein as that verdict was read. We dont know. Was there a reaction from any of the women or family members gathered in that courtroom here in new york city . We dont know. Were working to find that out. To dannys point here, cynthia, Harvey Weinstein, being remanded while his legal team prepares to appeal the decision, you assume thats also going to be the case . I assume its the case and i think its the right thing to do. Just because hes rich and famous doesnt mean he should get different treatment than any other offender convicted of two serious felonies in new york. Not to put a fine point on it, if you were a young black man and convicted of two serious felonies, first degree rape, you go straight to jail, i have news for you. He should get the exact same treatment. I suspect the judge will do that. This judge not only heard about these rapes but four other women who testified Harvey Weinstein sexually assaulted him and the judge heard all of that evidence. Not only does he have money to flee and ability to do it, he has other charges pending in los angeles. Thank you. A big thanks to you. Again, disgraced movie mogul Harvey Weinstein has been found guilty in two counts on his criminal rape trial. More coverage on msnbc. Good day. Im Andrea Mitchell in new york. Thank you, craig rashaan melvin. Im Andrea Mitchell in washington but in new york. A split sentence against former hollywood mogul, Harvey Weinstein, guilty on two counts, sexual act in the first degree and one count of rape in the third d
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