Transcripts For MSNBCW MSNBC Live With Craig Melvin 20200728

MSNBCW MSNBC Live With Craig Melvin July 28, 2020

Of course, there is still the mueller investigation. This hearing, we can tell you, is still running a bit behind schedule. Thats because a spokesman for the Judiciary Committee says chairman nadler was involved in some kind of crash today on his way from washington to new york, were told that the congress is okay, no one was hurt. But it is delaying things just a bit there on the hill. So while we wait, lets turn to our reporters. Nbcs Garrett Haake is following the hearing for us on the hill. I want to bring in our justice correspondent Pete Williams. Garrett, ill start with you. The attorney generals first appearance before the committee. Obviously democrats are going to want answers about a number of things. I just laid out a few of them. Walk us through what you think will be among the most contentious topics, shall we say. Democrats have long sought the hearing with this attorney general. For months they wanted to get him here to talk about all those issues you laid outgoing back to the Mueller Report. These hearings tend to generate more heat than light. The Judiciary Committee is typically the most partisan committee on the hill. I think the issues that will be top of mind for democrats in particular as they press bill barr, will be those most closest to where we are in this moment. The heavy handed, they believe, of controlling protests i think will be top of mind. So, too, will be the commutation of roger stone and the handling of the Michael Flynn case. Some of these throughlines of the entire trump presidency. Democrats want to get an opportunity to question bar about quite some time. The other that sticks out to me will be the firing of the u. S. Attorney in manhattan. So much as democrats have been stymied in washington with their investigations of this president and his administration, those things have gone out out in the districts, in the states with state and federal prosecutors farther away from washington, d. C. The Southern District of new york was handling a number of sensitive investigations that related to this president. So i think democrats will be sharply focused on those issues to start. But there is no shortage of potential story lines here with the attorney general who, as i said, democrats have wanted to get into that chair for months and months now, craig. Garrett, any new guidance on timing . Any idea on when this thing may get under way . Reporter ive reached out to the committee ourself. Our team has not seen barr on the hill. I spoke too soon. Five to ten minutes. Well get it happening before this commercial break. That is live reporting there, Garrett Haake on the hill. Do stand by if you can. Lets turn to justice correspondent Pete Williams. Pete, we dont hear from the attorney general a great deal, rare public testimony. What should we be watching and listening for . We dont hear from him in testimony before congress. Its been a little more than a year since his last testimony and that was on the senate side. I think, if i can break it down, a lot of partisanship differences, but then theres genuine policy differences and some areas where some good questioning might find more Common Ground than you think there is. For example, on this issue of protests, the government has been pushing back saying federal agents are not in portland to control protests. That what theyre concerned about is Violent Attacks on federal facilities, people trying to set fire at the federal courthouse in portland and attacks on federal agents. I think where you might get some productive questioning is to y say, okay, protecting a Federal Building is certainly legitimate use of federal agents. And then the question becomes what about around the Federal Building, how far should these agents that are there go . For example, there have been lots of instances where the force thats around the courthouse in portland has pushed out and deployed teargas in the streets of portland. Is that a legitimate use . Is that part of what theyre doing . There might be interesting policy discussions on that. I think in addition to things that you and garrett have been talking about, there may be questions about concern about fraud invote by mail. The attorney general said hes worried about other countries trying to interfere with our election, by introducing fraudulent mailin ballots into the election system, printing them up and dumping them out. Would that really work . Some Election Officials say no, you have to actually look at signatures on the ballots, compare them with registered signatures. That would be a very complicated thing to do. Another question that may come up is the census. The president says he thinks census takers should not count undocumented migrants. Its long been the position of the Justice Department that when the constitution says actual innumeration, it means count everybody, count bodies. So does the president does the attorney general agree with that change in Justice Department policy. And then this whole question about whether the Police Department should be defunded. In his prepared testimony he calls that irresponsible. He says that reducing the size of Police Forces in American Cities would actually hurt inner cities the most and that the whole issue is, he thinks that Police Departments, the black community understandably doesnt trust the Police Departments given a long history. He says they have become much more diverse with more black police officers, black Police Chiefs, and that defunding Police Departments would be a bad move. In addition to the partisan issues, theres genuine policy questions as well. Our justice correspondent Pete Williams there. Pete, while you were walking us through what we could expect, the attorney general of the United States arrived there at the capitol. This was the scene just a few moments ago. Bill barr making his way to that conference room. By the way, this, like so many things these days, will look a little different. In addition to seeing all the lawmakers in those face coverings, those masks, youll also only see eight members of congress on that dais at a time. This is a large committee, talking 40 members. Youll have eight at a time. The rest, as you can see there, already in the audience. Theyll rotate on to the stage when it is their turn to speak. The attorney general is seated now. I believe we do have still a few moments before we start our Opening Statements. So lets talk to daniel goldman, former majority counsel during the house impeachment of President Trump as well as the former director of investigations for the house intelligence committee. Also former assistant u. S. Attorney in the Southern District of new york. Chuck rosenberg is with me, former u. S. Attorney, former senior cia official and maya wiley, former assistant attorney, now professor of the new school. All three are msnbc contributors and legal analysts. Mr. Goldman, i apologize in advance if i have to cut you off. The chairman is taking a seat there. If youre working with the Judiciary Committee right now, what would you counsel democrats to keep as a top priority in their questioning . I think the top priority is to pin down bill barr on as many lies over the past year, undermine his credibility, demonstrate that he has viewed this job as a political arm of the president. I think theres a lot of evidence to that effect. Theres the firing of geoffrey berman, the intervention into the roger flynn and roger stone cases, the undermining of the russia investigation. The shiny object is what is currently going on. It is important and it is real and they will get into it. But the portland stuff will also take center stage. All right, daniel, thank you. Well come back to you after. Well get opening 125i789s now from the chairman and the Ranking Members and then attorney general bill barr. Minor car accident on the way in this morning. Everyone is fine except perhaps the car, but it did cause significant delay. I thank the attorney general and the members for their patience and flexibility. We will now begin. Before we begin, i want to acknowledge want to note we are joined this morning by the distinguished majority leader, the gentleman from maryland, mr. Hoyer. Leader hoyer has long recognized the need for vigorous congressional oversight of the executive branch under both parties, and we appreciate his presence here today as we question the attorney general. Before we begin, i would like to remind members we established an email address and distribution list dedicated to circulating exhibits, motions or other written materials that members might want to offer as part of our hearing today. If youd like to submit materials, please send them to the email address previously distributed to your offices and well circulate the materials to members and staff as quickly as we can. I would also remind all members that guidance from the office of attending physician says face coverings are required in closed spaces such as this committee hear. I expect all members on both side of the aisle to wear a mask except when youre speaking. Ill now recognize myself for an opening statement. Thank you for being here, mr. Barr. According to the Congressional Research service this is the first time you have appeared before the house Judiciary Committee, both during your first fen your as attorney general 30 years ago and during your Current Service in the Trump Administration. Welcome. 150 years ago last month, in the aftermath of the civil war, congress created the department of justice. We did so with two missions in mind. First, we wanted to replace a system of party spoils with a core of professional government attorneys. Yes, these attorneys would be supervised by the attorney general and, yes, the attorney general would remain a political appointee. But at its heart, the department would rely on a foundation of professionals dedicated to the Impartial Administration of the law and an unbiased system of justice. Second, congress established the department of justice to enforce the nations first civil rights laws after the civil war. From that moment on, it became the departments responsibility to ensure the right to vote and to stem the tide of systemic racism. Now, not every attorney general in the intervening 150 years has given full expression to these two goals. I am certain that every administration has fallen short of those promises in some way overtime. But today, under your leadership, sir, these two objectives are more at risk than at any time in modern history. Your tenure has been marked by a persistent war against the departments professional core in an apparent attempt to secure favors for the president. Others have lost sight of the importance of civil rights laws. But now we see the full force of the federal government brought to bear against citizens demonstrating for the advancement of their own civil rights. There is no precedent for the department of justice to actively seek out conflict with american citizens under such flimsy pretext or for such petty purposes. 150 years later, we are again at a Pivotal Moment in our nations history, mr. Barr. We are confronted with a Global Pandemic that has killed 150,000 americans and infected more than 16 million worldwide. We are coming to grips with a civil rights struggle long swept under the rug, if not outright ignored by our government. We are as a nation witnessing the federal government turn violently on its own people. And although responsibility for the governments failure to protect the health, safety and Constitutional Rights of the American People belongs squarely to President Trump, he could not have done this alone. He needed help. After he finished utterly humiliating his first attorney general, he found you. In your time at the department, you have aided and abetted the worst failing of the president. Let us recount just some of the decisions that have left us deeply concerned about the department of justice. First, under your leadership the department has endangered americans and violated their Constitutional Rights by flooding federal Law Enforcement into the streets of American Cities against the wishes of the state and local leaders of those cities to forcefully and unconstitutionally suppress descent. Second, at your direction, Department Officials have down played the effects of systemic racism and abandoned the victims of police brutality, refused to hold abusive Police Departments accountable for their actions and expressed open hostility to the black lives matter movement. Third, in coordination with the white house, the department has spread disinformation about voting fraught, failed to enforce Voting Rights laws and attempted to change the census rules to flaunt the plain text of the constitution and even defied court orders on this subject, all in the apparent attempt to assist the president s reelection. Fourth, at the president s request, the department has amplified the president s conspiracy theories and shielded him from responsibility by blatantly misrepresenting the Mueller Report and failing to hold foreign actors accountable for their attacks on our elections, undermining both National Security and the departments professional staff in the process. Fifth, again and again, you personally have interfered with on going criminal investigations to protect the president and his allies from the consequences of their actions. When career investigators and prosecutors resisted these brazen, unprecedented actions, you replaced them with less qualified staff who appear to be singularly beholding to you. The message these actions send is clear. In this Justice Department the president s enemies will be punished and his friends will be protected no matter the cost, no matter the cost to liberty, no matter the cost to justice. Finally, and perhaps most perniciously, the department has placed the president s political needs over the Public Health by challenging stayathome orders in the states hit hardest by the pandemic. The departments persistent efforts to gut the Affordable Care act will make recovery that much harder. These actions come at a price. Real damage to our democratic norms, the erosion of the separation of powers and a loss of faith in the equal administration of justice. In the hands of President Trump, a department of justice that adopts a dangerously expansive view of executive power and demonstrates a willingness to shield him from accountability represents a direct threat to the liberty and safety of the country. And we were warned. At your confirmation hearing professor neil king kof testified and i quote, Public Confidence in the rule of law depends on there being an attorney general who will not allow the president to do whatever he wants with the Justice Department. William barrs views of president ial power are so radically mistaken that he is simply the wrong man at the wrong time to be attorney general of the United States, closed quote. Again, this failure of leadership comes at great cost. This administration has twisted the department of justice into a shadow of its former self, capable of serving most americans only after it has first served those in power. This committee has responsibility to protect americans from that kind of corruption, mr. Barr. We have a responsibility to ensure that the Justice Department and its attorney general administer justice equally and fairly. And this is what has brought us to this hearing room today. We want to give you a chance to respond to our questions to these and other matters, and we hope and expect that you will do so in a clear and forthright manner. Our members expect sincere answers today, and our country deserves no less. I now recognize the Ranking Member of the Judiciary Committee, the gentleman from ohio, mr. Jordan, for his opening statement. Spying. That one word. Thats why theyre after you, mr. Attorney general. 15 months ago, april 10, 2019 in a Senate Hearing you said, quote, i think spying on a Political Campaign is a big deal. Spying on a Political Campaign is a big deal. It sure is. And since that day, since that day when you had the courage to state the truth they attacked you. Theyve been attacking you ever since, every day, every week for simply stating the truth that the Obama Bi

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