Im Chris Jansing in for stephanie ruhle. Right now, more news with hallie jacks jackson. Love that one. Chris jansing, thank you, my friend. Hallie jackson in washington, where this morning, it is all about the power of the presidency. Just how much control does donald trump really have, or really thinks he has, over our democracy . His new interview sending a shiver through the Justice Department. The president saying he could run the Special Counsel investigation if he wanted to. Yes, the investigation into his campaigns interactions with moscow. We have new reporting on What Don Mcgahn told the Special Counsel and the journalist who was facetoface with the president about all of this is here with us live. Yes, the investigation, by the way, is still happening, while attacks keep coming. One of the biggest names in tech, the kremlins latest target. Well break down what this microsoft hack attempt means for the midterms. The target for democrats right now, Brett Kavanaugh. You have democratic senators, women, lining up this hour to fight his nomination to the
Supreme Court, while he gets ready to meet, in about an hour, with the republican woman, a senator who will be critical to his confirmation. Everybody knows it. What a source close to the process is tell meing me now. This is turning out to be a busy tuesday morning. I want to start out with breaking news. Kristen welker is at the white house. I understand you just spoke with the president s attorney, Rudy Giuliani. He has been on kind of a media blitz this last 24 hours or so, trying to clean up those truth isnt truth comments to chuck todd on Meet The Press sunday. Hes also now, kristen, talking about this idea that the president may not end up sitting down with Robert Mueller, right . Reporter thats right, hallie. Hes essentially putting pressure on Robert Mueller to wrap this up. This is something that you and i have reported on extensively. Hes trying to essentially move this process along. Rudy giuliani again this morning saying, look, We Havent Heard from Robert Mueller in two
weeks. We havent gotten a response to the counterproposal that the president s legal team submitted. Remember, we talked about that several days ago, when they wanted to essentially limit the scope significantly of what types of questions could be asked and what types of followup questions could be on the table. Giuliani saying this terms of an interview, it does not look good, but it is not finally decided. He also adds, it is time to put up, and they have nothing except a bunch of irrelevant charges. He says the charges have absolutely nothing to do with President Trump. Thats the new talking point today, as President Trump, as you indicated, hallie, in the new interview overnight, saying that he could take charge of the Russia Investigation. I tried to press giuliani on what the president meant by that. He doesnt seem to know. Officials here at the white house dont seem to know. Id point you to some of his past statements, in which the president has indicated he believes he has therosenstein, oversees the investigation, and
he has privately mused about getting rid of muehl llemueller. This idea that Rudy Giuliani is putting a time frame on the Special Counsel investigation, thats what giuliani and the legal team is saying. We dont know what mueller is saying because mueller is not talking about it. Hes really the only one who knows for sure. Reporter mueller is the only one who knows for sure and, yet, all the information weve been getting has been from the president s legal team. Robert mueller, his investigators have been pretty tight lipped when it comes to this investigation. Rudy giuliani several days ago saying, this all needs to be wrapped up by labor day. That was his timeframe, not Robert Muellers. Mueller speaks for himself. So far, We Havent Heard from him. Hallie . Whats interesting, kristen, too, is the new interview weve been talking about with President Trump, conducted, in part, with jeff mason, who is currently sitting next to me. Well get to him in a second. The president echoed something Rudy Giuliani has been saying for weeks, which is the idea that tennessan interview with r
Coverage of national and international news, including breaking stories. Difference between what the president technically has the authority to do. The Justice Department is part of the Executive Branch. The president is at the head. The doj works for the president. That includes mueller. Technically, the president would have the authority to fire him. That doesnt mean it is prudent. That doesnt mean it wouldnt dramatically undermine the way the complex institution of the Executive Branch is poup tosupp work. Thats why the comments are galling to people in the Justice Department, everyone in the space. Jeff, weve been in front of the president before, asking him questions, interacting with him. It is different when youre in the room. Mmhmm. What was his demeanor like . Did he seem defiant or fiery or resigned . What was the mood you got . He wasnt fiery or resigned. He was a little bit when we first walked in, he wasnt super excited or e some of the othe interviews, hes offering drinks, excited to show if he pushes his button on the desk, an aide will come in and offer a
hill today. Hes been accompanying Brett Kavanaugh to the meetings related to the Supreme Court nomination. Jeff and betsy, you both have been reporting on this mcgahn fallout, right . The idea he spent 30 plus hours with the Special Counsel. The president said, i gave him my permission. It is all good. Is it all good . I was told the same thing. If mcgahn had been aware that something criminal would have happened, it is unlikely he would have stayed in the position. Are things all good . I wouldnt go that far. We reported months ago that mcgahns relationship with the president had grown increasingly frayed. Over the last six to nine months, they had half a dozen conversations oneonone. These are not men with an amicable relationship. Things between them are not warm. On top of that, we also know that mcgahn, over the last many months, has been making noise about potentially leaving the white house. Talking about how he wants to go back to private practice. He brought in a white shoe
lawyer into the counsels office, generating speculation that he is grooming fled to take over his position as white house counsel. The fact that this is the person who talked to mueller for 30 hours. 30 hours. Given that context is not something that should be comforting for the president. You can watch this show for 30 minutes. I ho hours. I hope you do. But with the Special Counsel, it is probably different. Thank you. A top senator, democratic senator, is talking about the white house or excuse me microsoft hack, the hack attempt. Were talking about senator warrwa warn warner. Leader on the Intelligence Committee speaking to reporters in the last couple minutes. Well talk through what this hack is all about, what microsoft has done, and what this means for the midterms. All of it, by the way, as we are now four days and counting with the Paul Manafort jury still Behind Closed Doors. Is this a good sign or a bad sign for the defense . Well take you live to alexandria later in the show. Chair, new laptop,
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elections. Joining me now, the former director of the National Terror center and the National Security and intelligence analyst. Jeff and betsy are here, as well. The headline, russia is still at it. What i took away from the reporting overnight was two things. First, it tells us it is Concrete Reaffirmation of what we already knew. We knew this from the director of national intelligence, dan coats, and chris wray, who said the campaign, the effort to mess with our politipolitics, is not historical but present and continuing. It is probably focused on the 2018 elections as much as anything else. The second thing i took away from the information overnight was the fact that it came from microsoft. What it tells me is that microsoft, the private sector, is prepared to work with the government to deal with these issues. Thats something thats going to be essential to devising an Effective Response to what the russians are doing. In the terrorism realm i was involved with for so many years, we looked to the tech sector to
help us when isis, for example, was using social media to recruit and gain adherents and all of that. We need the private sector to be an aggressive, Actor Partner in dealing with russian influence, as well. One thing important to know is one of the groups targeted is the International Republican institute. Theyre not a normal think tank. What they do, they help emerging democracies develop democratic institutions. They send people to cambodia, mongolia, teaching people to develop free and Fair Elections. Iri was actually kicked out of russia. Putin expelled them because he didnt want them there working on trying to help russia become more democratic. For the russians to target iri isnt just them going after sort of an egghead think tank group, which is troubling, but it is them going after an organization that is funded by congress to help promote democratic norms Around The World. If you look at the similarities of the typical domain names users get to, you can see what theyre trying to do here. This group of hackers, fancy
bear, which is a name that should be familiar, because it is the group whose members were allegedly part of the russian interference in the 2016 election. Sure. The effort to create the fake websites gives the russians a couple of opportunities. One, they can collect information from individuals who unwittingly go to the websites and provide their information, their contact information, the details of who they are, and thats useful to the russians in targeting their further work. It also gives them the opportunity over time, if they wish, to change content on the faux sites. Itll be interesting to see how President Trump reacts to this. In this case, it was republican organizations that were targeted. Now, the president often now, some of them though with views against President Trump, right . Indeed. Even so, aligned with conservatives who are more inclined to be alined with wanting a republican majority in the house or republican majority in the senate. That impact on the election, potential impact on the election
in the fall. Let me explain how microsoft described this whole scheme here, in this report that developed, again, overnight, middle of the night, came out. We woke up to it this morning. Attackers want their attacks to look as realistic as possible and, therefore, create websites and urls that look like sites targeted victims would expect to receive email from or visit. Somewhat standard strategy. What are your concerns ability whe about where the group might go next . Two months out from the midterms. Three months. You have to assume that this information, which is in the public domain, is the tip of an iceberg. My guess is, my expectation is, that the Intelligence Community is bringing forward a much more complicated and scary and dangerous picture forward in the Intelligence Briefings theyre giving to senior officials at the white house. They know more than what microsoft is telling us. Microsoft has one slice of this, their slice, but there are other Tech Companies and vectors by which the russians could be seeking to intexercise this influen
influence. Our Intelligence Community probably has a better handle on this than what theyre willing to say publicly. This is part of broad activity on the part of the russians in the lead up to the midterms. Nick makes an important point. There is certainly a lot more going on than we know. On a separate but related note, jeff, i want to play new audio obtained by the Pennsylvania Democratic party. It is of gob candidate scott wagner. This is sort of raising eyebrows. Listen for a sec. By the way, the russians are going to help me with tom wolf. If i have to use Paul Manafort, i will. Obviously a joke there from wagner. Right. His campaign is out with a statement. Well put it on the screen here. Saying, scott was obviously joking. He thinks russias interference in the 2016 election was real, and he pledges to work with the federal government to secure Fair Elections in pennsylvania as governor. That is the Damage Control Statement. It is a Damage Control Statement because it is not a joking matter. It is very serious. It was very serious in 2016. It is clearly going to be very serious in 2018. Okay. Betty, final thoughts . Remember, hes not the only highprofile republican to joke about this. When Jeff Sessions gave a speech at the Mayflower Hotel a couple months ago, he opened up by saying, are there any russians in the audience . Anyone who has been to russia . Which was a question of whether it was a joke or not, the comment President Trump made. It is fair. There was a sense the russia story is a source of amusement. In light of this, nick, how important is it, do you believe you signed onto the letter we talked about, condemning President Trumps move to yank brennan Security Clearance. Given this, how important do you think it is to let people like brennan, James Clapper and others, have access to the clearance . To me, the important point of the Security Clearance issue has been the fact that this is just a process that should not be politicized. Theres a lot that goes into a Security Clearance. One thing is your political views. It shouldnt. Hasnt. I hope wont in the future. Nick, thanks for coming on and talking through what can be
a complicated but important story. Hanging in the balance, four days Behind Closed Doors and no word from the jury on the fate of Paul Manafort. What is taking so long . What does that mean for Donald Trumps former Campaign Chair . Plus, the other decision were watching for today, the man whose actions kicked off the Russia Investigation might be about to pull out of his plea deal. Well explain what his wife is saying coming up. We do whatever it takes to fight cancer. These are the specialists were proud to call our own. Experts from all over the world, working closely
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respect to the charges . The answer was no. As a prosecutor, the last thing i want the jurors to be doing is forging through documents, trying to match them up to testimony, trying to match them up to charges. It is an arduous task. I think theyre doing their due diligence. Former u. S. Attorney Barbara Mcquaid has been sitting in on the manafort trial for msnbc here. She had Something Interesting to say, as to why she thinks this may be going on for four days. I want you to listen, and then i want your perspective on it. I think that the time they saved in the trial, they may be giving back in the deliberations, as the jury now needs to go and pull out all those documents and look at them, see how they match up. One of the questions they have asked is whether they could have some sort of key or chart, showing them which exhibits match up with which counts or which witnesses. The judge said no. Theyre doing that work themselves. I think in a case with more than 400 exhibits, it could take them some time. Matches up with your take it
seems. I think Yoher Opinion was brilliant, hallie. Absolutely. As a prosecutor, i want to present my Demonstrative Evidence in front of the jury. Not have them guess. I agree with ms. Mcquaid, that this is exactly what it is theyre doing. It is unfortunate they were put in that position. I want to ask about Something Else that relates to the Special Counsel investigation. Specifically, how much of this got started in the first place. That is because of somebody named george papadopoulos. If you watch this network, you know he was somebody who was an informal adviser to the Trump Campaign back in 2016 before the election there. Now, he is apparently he had a plea deal with Robert Mueller, right . Hes now considering pulling out of the Plea Agreement all together. Here is what his wife said on Sean Hannitys program last night. We are discussing now the possibility and the technicalities behind this possibility with lawyers. We have important meetings tomorrow. This Plea Agreement is, to me,
difficult to uphold in the context of, you know, a trial by the judge. It is against the rule of law in many ways. There are many things that happened that are completely against. Papadopoulos sends this cryptic tweet. Been a hell of a year. Decisions, period. We know, based on what his wife said, they are meeting with attorneys today. You heard her say that. Number one, robert, can papadopoulos pull out of the plea deal, and how much of a hot mess is it, if that actually happens . Lets go with point one. If he came to me and said, i want to pull out of the plea deal, when he can be charged with obstruction, my question to him in retort would be, are you insane . Number one. Number two, i dont think he is going to be able to pull out of the plea deal. Judges just dont let you willynilly pull out of plea deals. Theyre very specific. The judge goes through great detail, making sure it is voluntary. Making sure they understand all the consequences of it. Just having a Change Of Heart is never a basis to overturn a plea
agreement. It is not going to happen. Robert, i think last time we had you on, you were sitting next to me in somerville, new jersey, when i was covering the president s trip to bedminster. Sorry you cant be with us, but glad to have you back. Thanks, hallie. We want to go to new video into the newsroom. Senator jeff flake, republican from arizona, talking about the Russia Investigation. Heres what he had to say. Welcome back from africa. Can i ask you, the president reiterated yesterday that he felt like he could basically run the Mueller Investigation if he wanted to. Hes wrong. He cant. Ought to stop trying to undermine it, as well. It is um seam nseamly. Calling people thugs, undermining it is bad enough. Saying you can run it is another level. All of us are concerned. Seems to be stepping it up lately. He ought to let bob mueller finish his work. All of us ought to do that. Senator, what about this report from microsoft, that theyve caught Russian Hackers trying to infiltrate conservative websites . Shouldnt be a surprise, after what theyve done already. This is another level. Well be looking into it. What does the senate do about that . Could the senate have done more to this point . I dont know to this point. I think youre going to find other avenues, as well, that theyve been trying to influence. Theyre bad guys. Theyre trying to influence our elections. Theyre trying to on every level. They feel they had success last time, so theyll step it up. Do you think this increased rhetoric from the president about the Mueller Investigation is a reflection you are listening to senator jeff flake being asked questions, including by frank thorpe, our producer, Welcoming Flake back from africa. It is not surprising. Hed a critic of donald trump. He said something i think would be incorrect. He said, i think were all concerned about the president s lan w language. That is not true. Legislation has been stuck in the committee that would keep the president from being able to easily fire mueller. Mitch mcconnell, the majority leader of the senate, isnt doing anything about it. He isnt facing serious pressure from republicans in the senate to change his activity. Final thoughts, jeff . Worth noting that flake is not running for reelection. He has a little more freedom to be critical, which he has been for some time. This is not a shift for him. Right. Hes not going to be around much longer. We are going to actually head back to capitol hill right after we take a quick break. Theres Something Else going on. Brett kavanaugh having his, arguably, most important meeting on the hill. We understand that that is happening over there with senator Susan Collins. Senator who could decide whether he gets the green light. It is what he wrote in 1998 that is also getting new attention today. The graphic questions he wanted his team to ask bill clinton during the Monica Lewinsky
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months hearings, we doubt this is high on the list. His position on investigating sitting president s seems to have evolv evolved. In 2009, he wrote, lawsuits or investigations take the president s focus away from his or her responsibilities to the people. Ken starr is, in fact, a hero. Kavanaugh has longtime links to ken starr, working as the lead author of the controversial starr report, looking at clintons scandals, and praising starr at an Appreciation Dinner in 1999. Maybe im an optimist, but one day, i, for myself, hope to be able to call him mr. Justice starr. Of course, now, it is Brett Kavanaugh who could end up being justice kavanaugh. Much of this strategy that was put together by the white house and Team Kavanaugh was, in fact, designed and tailors to Susan Collins, to show that kavanaugh, in their view, is a qualified judge and not a partisan figure. Collins said, thats part of it, but i want to make sure somebody
has good judicial precedent and understands the importance of it. All Eyes On Collins today, jeff. She said it is important to uphold roh v roe verse wade. He considered it precedent. That was my judgment, as well. I was glad to hear him say that at that time. Obviously, it is an issue that im going to raise with him. So, that is clearly part of the playbook for her today. Absolutely. It is part of the playbook for the people opposing his nomination, to put pressure on her and others who feel the same way. I think it is also important to remember just how powerful Susan Collins is. Shes consistently a swing vote on a number of hotbutton issues. Given that republicans only have the tiniest of majorities in the senate, that gives her an extraordinary amount of power. It is interesting for someone, coming from a small state with a small population, that she can actually be this decider on an issue thats going to have consequences for all americans for decades. Something that got kind of lost in the shuffle it seemed last week was the democratic threat to sue the National Archives for these records related to kavanaugh. Democrats are sort of putting up this fight over documents, yet this is still moving along. The timeline is ticking away, as Mitch Mcconnell and the president expected. I think the white house is confident it is going to end up the way they want it. Democrats are fighting back, certainly very hard, as are groups that are concerned about the implications of him getting this position and really putting the Supreme Court in the conservative slot for a generation or two to come. The other piece of this, too, is that it is not just Susan Collins, right . There are others, including, for example, mccascall. She is giving the nomination,
quote, the credit it deserves. You have senators manchin, for example. You talk about people opposing the knonomination. Theyre in the crosshairs here, too. So much money spent on the confirmation process. According to the latest estimates or calculations, the prokavanaugh camp is just spending way more than the antikavanaugh camp. What theyre focusing on is running ads in these red states that have democratic senators, trying to pummel people like manchin, mccaskill, heitkamp, the vulnerable democrats, trying to make them assess the political consequences of voting against kavanaughs confirmation. We have more to talk about after the break, including the first lady planning her first big solo trip. Melania trump says she is going to africa this fall. What kind of welcome will she get after her husband called some of the countries shole nations reportedly earlier this year . It was here. While taking, you may bruise more easily, or take longer for bleeding to stop. Xarelto® can cause serious, and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. It may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. Get help right away for unexpected bleeding or unusual bruising. Do not take xarelto® if you have an Artificial Heart Valve or abnormal bleeding. Before starting, tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures and any kidney or liver problems. Learn all you can to help protect yourself from a stroke. Talk to your doctor about xarelto®. Kind of an interesting destination pick. Right . Might be old enough to wleb the president came under fire from Around The World reportedly referring to african nations at shole countries. He didnt say shole. Im saying shole. Bring in me, served as Policy Director for First Lady Michelle Obama and senior add vidor under Secretary Of State Hillary Clinton and Secretary Of State john kerry. Jeff and betsy here as well. Thanks for coming on. Inaugural appearance. You worked closely with former First Lady Michelle Obama. What do you make of this trip now for Melania Trump . A good idea or a bad one . I think its a good idea and an important, both in terms of politics and policy. The fact that she chose to go to africa, a country, you know, a continent that president has equated to a toilet, i think it is perhaps her trying to make amends for the president s potty mouth and i think as a policy
matter, africa is obviously a strategically important area, why china has been Building Schools and investing in infrastructure. When i traveled the world with the first lady, you could tell that it was a region that was looking to america for leadership and i think its exciting. Is this trip meant to mend fences or is she trolling her husband here . Maybe a little of both . Yeah. I think its a bit of both and what youre starting to see is a house divided. Shes not just kind of asserting independence. Youre seeing a pattern of tit for tat. Lebron james criticizes her. She praises hill. These african trip, youre starting to see how she is not going to be along the lines of a, Michelle Obama or a nancy reagan. Shes going to probably perhaps become more of a betty ford, whodmsh 1who in 1975, went out and argued the white house arguing for first
amendment rights. And can she do it . As she is rolling out the cyberbullying, we talked about yesterday on the show. Tough in the sense that this trip is described as more of a listening tour. By contrast, the first lady during the obama administration, who thought to launch new initiatives. I think shes going to perhaps at least early on play more of a passive role. She has less than a dozen staff compared to that. A very small and disciplined staff when you compare to the president s staff inside the west wing when it comes to the conversations based on our reporting. When it come fos to the relationship, jump in, the New York Times reported for for example, Melania Trump is far more relaxed outside the presence of her husband when hes around. Maintain as separate bedroom and stays in separate hotel suites when there, but one of the strongest influences in his ear
privately if not also publicly. Also seen she had an impact on the issue of children separated from their parents at the border, and has absolutely shown that she can be an independent voice within the white house and going to africa is one way to demonstrate that, and also following in the footsteps of other first ladies who have chosen the continent of africa to showcase what they can do, the spotlight they can bring with that office or position of being first lady. Africa is obviously very strategically significant. As you said. The Chinese Government trying to colonize this continent, step into a strategic void the United States left as we folked diplomatic and military efforts in the middle east. The fact shes going there is significant. That said, Dont Forget Melania has a history of bungling the highpressure moment. Wore a bizarre jacket on her way to meet with people, would go on the family separation issue. A jacket that said, i really
dont care. Do you. Probably the most important moment of her time as first lady thus far. And its something that, you know, well see how well her staff does. Chris, final thoughts here. Post suggests perhaps the timing means mrs. Trump wont be a huge presence on the campaign trail. Rarely been a big presence on the campaign trail. Does that fit . Yeah. And where her role will be more symbolic than sububstantive. Maybe she feels a stronger footing over time. Wrap up the show with what youre digging into. Meetings coming up between dmeen a china and the United States. A dispute between the two countries. And Big Terry Ifs by the president on china. A source, its President Trump. Said yesterday he doesnt expect much to come from these talks. A sign this dispute will last a long time. May be our first source who says the source is the president on the record. Thank you. Betsy, a couple moments ago a new look at Brett Kavanaugh meeting with Susan Collins here on klieg. Interesting and relates to your story youre working on is the guy trailing in the background. Just out of frame. See if he walks in. Don mcgahn. Right . There he is. That little man in the back. Theres been a lot of speculation about the significance of mcgahn talking with muellers team for 40 hours. I do not cosign the following legal analysis but a person close to the president s legal team told me one way theyre thinking is as follows. What the source said, when the white house, john doud and ty cobb, the president s former lawyers waived Executive Privilege so many white house officials could testify to mueller, that waiver only applied to within the Executive Branch. So what theyre saying, the president s legal team says, if mueller wanted to take some of
the testimony that mcgahn provided, evidence of a crime, say, something relevant to a criminal prosecution and provide that evidence to a grand jury, which is part of the judicial branch, that the white house would be able to fight back and try to put the ka bacibosh on i. Scratching heads, might not be right but thinking on the president s legal team. Thank you guys all for being on the program. Appreciate it. Wrap up as always with today the big picture. Comes from arizona. What youre about to see is a stunning moment. Little london. Just born. Shes inside a heart made out of needles. Those needles are actually her moms ivt syringes. After more than 1,600 shots, after three miscarriages, after four years, the couple finally welcome this sweetpea. The moment shared some 60,000 times on facebook. Gone totally viral captures this intense In Vitro Fertilization Journey filled with challenges, but more importantly filled with
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