I kneeneed a trophy. Thank you, i appreciate it and happy friday. We start with the final fare wells to a giant of the House Of Representatives, Elijah Cummings. Funeral services are starting as we speak in his beloved baltimore. The church is so packed theyre having to turn some people away. You will see speeches live from Hillary Clinton and nancy pelosi this hour and later today from former president S Barack Obama and bill clinton. They have halted congressional action on the Impeachment Inquiry today, but there are still two big developments this morning. A top source is telling nbc news that investigation into the russia investigation is now a criminal one. Were going to explain what that means legally, the extra power the doj now has, and why democrats are livid. And just in the last couple of minutes, nbc news Learning Lawyers for ousted National Security adviser john bolton are in talks for a possible private deposition in the impeachment
investigation. Why thats explosive. But a Current White House official, were learning, agreeing to cooperate, too. The fallout from both sides of the aisle and the white house as we speak with a lawmaker fresh off a trip to ukraine, ready to tell us what bill taylor told him. Our nbc news team is here. Were going to get to the impeachment developments. I want to start with Geoff Bennett in baltimore. Elijah cummings worshipped at this church for nearly 40 years and this is set to begin in a matter of moments for now with a procession of clergy and family and some very highprofile speeches. Reporter youre right about that, hallie. And from our Vantage Point here in front of the church, for the last 20 minutes or so weve seen a steady extreme of dignitaries make their way in. Nancy pelosi and the former president and joe biden walking hand in hand. Weve seen senator warren, also
amy klobuchar. So today we expect a public celebration for Elijah Cummings, born the son of share croppers in 1951 into the jim crow south, now departing this life into the detect. He was one of the lions of the u. S. Congress. And we heard nancy pelosi yesterday say that she called him the Master Of The House for his keen political sensibilities, but she also referred to him as a mentor of the house, geven tiven the way e helped freshmen lawmakers. We saw alexandria ocasciocortez, rashida tlaib, ayanna pressley. He mentored the three of them. It is a remarkable life that he lived and thats one of the reasons why we expect to hear from former president s today. We are going to be carrying those speeches, geoff, live here coming up in just about 15, 20
minutes or so. Please let us know who else youre seeing walking in the church and how were doing on timing. I appreciate that. In the meantime, we also want to talk about the bombshell from the Justice Department. The doj review of the russia investigation, you know the investigation into the investigation President Trump has wanted, has now turned into a criminal now. So the doj is investigating itself. Thats what this means. The u. S. Attorney from connecticut, John Budurham is spear heading this thing. He now has the power to subpoena witnesses and em panel a grand jury and file charges, all against some of his own officials. I want to bring in now nbc news correspondent, Julia Ainsley who covers the Justice Department and Kristen Welker has some new reaction from over at the white house. Julia, let me start with you. Talk through the significance of this. Really an escalation and one the democrats arent happy about. Reporter thats right. Its important to keep in mind that we dont know exactly when
this turned into a criminal investigation. We just know that it is now. It began as an administrative review. But some of our reporting in the last few weeks has indicated that they had rash etcheted thi. People who are Career Officials at the cia have begun to lawyer up. You do if if you are told that you could face some kind of criminal exposure. Its going beyond what would be an internal review, much like an Inspector General report or an Office Of Professional Responsibility report would be. Now people could face criminal exposure as theyre being questioned about the origins of the russia probe, what became the Mueller Probe. Again, its an investigation into the investigation. But what im hearing is that theres really a lot of irony in this, because the same questions are being asked about the durham probe that the durham probe is seeking to answer about the Mueller Probe. Were asking whether or not this is politically motivated. We know john durham was tasked with this by the attorney general, william barr, just
after the Mueller Probe wrapped and the president wanted a way to try to get to the bottom of this deep state conspiracy that he thinks is behind him. And were asking what evidence they had that predicated a criminal investigation. What got them across this line . Because at this point it doesnt seem that they do have the teeth behind this. And if they do, theyre not telling us. Thats the exact same question they are trying to answer as they look into how Justice Department investigators and fbi opened a probe in 2016 and whether or not they had enough information from reliable sources to get the warrants that led them to start monitoring some people in the president s or bit. So its all very circular and hard to keep track of. But the main thing to know is that this investigation into the investigation has ratcheted to a new point and now people who were involved will now potentially be facing subpoenas or maybe even witnesses being called before a grand jury. One thing we do know,
kristen, is that democrats arent happy with jerry nadler tweeting overnight the Justice Department has now become a vehicle for President Trumps political revenge. You, i know, just had a chance to speak with a Top White House official. What are you hearing . Reporter i did, hallie. Defiance from the white house, mark short, of course, who is the Vice President s chief of staff, firing back at democrats who are arguing that essentially the president is using the Justice Department as a political weapon. Take a look at what he had to say just moments ago. Kristen, i think that every american should have an expectation for impartial justice, and i think that every american has a right to know whether or not the obama Justice Department was pursuing political goals. And all that i understand is that the Inspector General has a report coming out that is leading to potentially additional criminal probe. And so i think we all have a right to know about that and well find out soon enough. Reporter hallie, to your point, this is something that President Trump has been calling for. Hes been trying to discredit the Mueller Investigation for years, referring to it as a witch hunt and a hoax. We know that ultimately mueller didnt find sufficient evidence to prove a conspiracy, but he did lay out 140 instances in which there was contact between the Trump Campaign and russia and ten separate instances which he said could rise to possible obstruction of justice. So that is the backdrop against which this all is occurring and unraveling. Now, i also had the chance to ask Kellyanne Conway if President Trump was briefed by the attorney general, if hes been in contact with bill barr about this investigation, and she said shes not sure, hallie. Julia ainsley and Kristen Welker, thanks to the both of you. We want to get to capitol hill because we have new reporting on this. In the past hour nbc news has learned lawyers for fired National Security adviser john bolton have been in touch with
house Committee Officials who want to interview him. We know from our reporting that bolton was not happy with how the ukraine call initially went down back in july. The call that triggered Impeachment Inquiry. Weve also learned that tim morris son has agreed to comply with investigators. A new poll finds americans are evenly divided, 49 to 49 on whether President Trump should be impeached and removed from office. Break it down along party lines, no huge surprises there. Most democrats say yes, about the same number of Republican Voters say no. But look all the way to the right. More independent voters, 53 , say the president should be impeached and removed from office. If youre in the white house, that is the column you are looking at. Msnbcs Garrett Haake is here joining us now. Garrett, this bolton news i think is very interesting because this is somebody who lawmakers, democrats that ive spoken to, absolutely want to hear from. And frankly, given the way that
based on my sources and my reporting, bolton left the white house, he may have some stories to tell. Reporter he may, hallie. And thats part of the reason democrats do want to see him come testify, either in a closed deposition like setting or at an open hearing. But look, bolton is somebody who was so close to all of this decisionmaking, the way that democrats have approached these depositions, it was essentially start on the outside, starting with the whistleblower report and working their way closer to how these decisions are made. If Indeed Bolton does come, he could give a private closed door deposition and potentially provide a lot of information that way. I look at this from the political perspective and think that bolton is probably someone who democrats would like to see testify at an open hearing eventually if they get that far, just because hes someone that the American Public will know. This is not a case of a diplomat who nobody had ever heard of. This is someone who has been a Major Political feature. Everybody knows who this is. Reporter if you have followed politics over the last
three president ial administrations, you know who john bolton is and that will be part of making the public case potentially if democrats can get that far. And i should add it is our understanding discussions are happening within a very small group. Most members dont even know the details of whats been discussed with boltons attorneys so far. Theres also a piece that democrats now and this was alluded to yesterday on this show about whether or not the whistleblower would testify or not and it seems like more and more democrats are saying, hey, we dont need this whistleblower to testify. Republicans are like, hey, bring it in. Reporter yeah, there are a couple Different Things going on. First the idea of protecting the whistleblowers identity. There were a lot of concerns about his or her physical safety. The idea that this person should not be named and outed publicly is something that lawmakers, frankly in both parties take
seriously. But for the political aspect of it and moving the Impeachment Inquiry forward, republicans were hammering the whistleblower from the start as someone who had second or thirdhand information. What youve seen now is democrats say lets get a little bit closer to the folks who did have firsthand information and thats what weve done. So while the whistleblower brought things to the democrats attention, he or she is less useful if there are firsthand accounts, documents, primary sources that can be used in their place. So the whistleblower has this political quality, particularly for republicans, who can still attack this person as this figure who started this all who is a deep state operative or whatever they want to say. But as more and more of the whistleblowers information gets confirmed, their actual testimony here becomes less important to the actual probe. Garrett haake over on capitol hill, thank you for that. I want to actually pick up where garrett left off with democrat from california, a member of the House Armed Services committee who is joining us i think from sacramento. Thanks for being on the show. Good to be with you. Lets start with the whistleblower, that he or she may not testify. Do you think that this person needs to be heard . No, not necessary. All criminal probes start with some piece of information and then you follow the facts. Thats exactly what the House Of Representatives is doing, following the facts. And indeed theyre getting closer and closer to the president , and there is firsthand information now available. Bolton certainly would be a very big firsthand actual participant in what was going on. So yes, we dont need to talk to the whistleblower or hear that testimony. Clearly that started it. From there, the facts are being laid out. There will be public hearings very soon, as all of this information will now be made public. But this is the gathering, if you will, this is the grand jury process. Very soon, meaning maybe mid november as weve been hearing . Well, that would be a good time, yes. But im not controlling that. Every day theres a new set of facts, a new path to be followed, and that could cause a delay as Additional Information comes in and the necessity of following that particular path. So it sound like youre hedging your bets a little bit on the timeline. You brought up somebody that i knew from my day job covering the white house, former National Security adviser john bolton. We are now hearing from our team that boltons attorneys are in contact with House Attorneys about a possible closeddoor deposition. How important is it to you to hear from john bolton privately . Well, first privately, find out what he has to say, what is it that he knows, what firsthand information does he have available. He may very well be one of the witnesses in the public hearings that will inevitably take place here. In any case, he is extremely important. He was there, he was the National Security adviser, and so right at the heart of the matter. And whether he had good relations with trump or not,
obviously those fell apart over the course of his work. This obviously has heightened interest, given the deposition from the acting ambassador to ukraine, bill taylor, which we learned about. Feels like a lifetime ago, just a few days ago. You are recently back from a trip to ukraine, i understand, and you had a chance to speak with the acting ambassador specifically about these text messages. I assume about his interactions with people inside and around the white house. Tell me what you heard from him. Well, first of all, we heard that ukraine desperately needed the american assistance, desperately needed the 390 million of military aid. We also visited the military, their Ministry Of Defense. Mr. Taylor was with us, or ambassador taylor was with us at all of those briefings. He was very clear that money, that assistance, was desperate and had to be coming forward. It turned out that the moment that we got off the bus to meet him at the Ministry Of Defense,
our cell phones went off with a text message. So we got off the bus and we had to brief discussion with him about it. And he affirmed, yes, that is my message, and yes, thats the way it was. Unfortunately, we didnt get into any further discussions with him about that, because we immediately went to a ceremony in which every morning the Ministry Of Defense honors those ukrainian soldiers that were killed on that day over the previous five years of war with russia. It was a very, very moving ceremony. We then went on to meet with the minister of defense. Again, they needed american assistance and we knew then that it was being withheld, that it had been withheld, and had just recently been made available. Very quickly, youre not on one of the three committees leading the Impeachment Inquiry. I spoke with a colleague of yours on the other side of the aisle, congressman matt gates, who was quite i think clearly angry and felt like this was not
a fair or public process, because he as a nonmember of intel or Foreign Affairs or oversight was not able to be in the room for these closeddoor depositions. Do you also feel aggrieved in that way . Are you also concerned that you can not be in the room based on the rules that are laid out in congress . Absolutely not. Matt, get over it. We all have our committee assignment. These are important and there are 47 republican members of congress that have the right to be in those committees to hear the depositions and to participate and ask questions. So get over it, matt. This is just a bunch of whining with no basis whatsoever. No, i have no concern. I know that i have confidence in my members, democrat and republican, that are participating. Congress