We begin tonight with a simple question. What makes the president , of all president s, cave to the pressure . Here we are some 24 hours after the white house actually President Trump, i think the white house wanted to yield to this pressure a while ago, but President Trump yielded to the pressure on epa chief scott pruitt. We are still dealing with the aftermath from the president s 180 on a zero tolerance policy at the border which separated families. In both cases, the white house or specifically the president hit a breaking point and gave into some pressure. In both cases there were some folks wondering if the white house would ever give in to this pressure. Again, i should say trump, not the white house. Which begs the question, which are the president s pressure points and where are his breaking points. For instance, is there a breaking point for him on trade . Because a war of words with china is now turning into a very real war of trade. China today said its retaliating against the u. S. After the president imposed 34 billion in tariffs on chinese products. The president told reporters on air force one last night hes prepared to hit china with additional penalties that could total over half a trillion dollars. Yes, half a trillion. So if youre a critic of the president on this issue, which lots of republicans are, what did you learn about the president s pressure points from the pruitt fiasco or the family separations issue, anything . Is there anything to be used there on trade . Any trade . And trade isnt the only issue where folks are wondering if theres a breaking point. What about our relationships with our closest allies. The president seems ready to threaten to pull the plug on the entire Nato Alliance ahead of next weeks summit. Ill see nato and im going to tell nato, youve got to start paying your bills. The United States is not going to take care of everything. So we have 151 billion in trade deficits with the eu and on top of that, they kill us with nato. They want to protect against russia, yet they pay billions of dollars to russia and were the shmucks paying for the whole thing. Almost 33 billion more is projected to be paid by those nato nations, but its not enough. And in case the president s hostility towards nato wasnt clear at last nights rally, after he meets with nato next week, he decided to schedule a summit with natos biggest critic, vladimir putin. He could have done it before the nato summit. He chose to do it after. Speaking of putin, there are some folks wondering if theres a breaking point with the president s constant praise of him. Heres the president last night. Theyre going will President Trump be prepared. You know, president putin is kgb and this and that. You know what, putin is fine. Hes fine. Were all fine. Were people. Will i be prepared . Totally prepared. Ive been preparing for this stuff my whole life. They dont say that. They dont say that. Also at last nights rally in addition to criticizing the United States closest allies and praising putin, praised kim jongun. He maligned the press corps, mocked the me too movement and made up facts about aspects of his election victory, all of it while at a rally ostensibly about the Montana Senate race. Again, where is the breaking point on those other issues . Lets bring in tonights panel. Shawna thomas, Alfonso Aguilar and ruth marcus is an msnbc contributor and columnist at the washington post. So we hit a breaking point. Alfonso ill start with you on pruitt. What did you learn from the fact he doesnt cave often and has caved twice in three weeks. One on the immigration policy where the pictures said a lot and pruitt where aparpparentlya sixmonth drum beat finally worked. Its a tall order that youre asking of us to try to understand, right . I think its all about himself and the perception that he thinks people have of him. With the separation of families, i frankly dont think that initially that was his idea. I think this is one of those Stephen Miller, you know, concocted ideas that went wrong, and he had a lot of pressure from inside, from his daughter, from his wife, and i think he realized that he wasnt really looking very well. In the case of pruitt, a lot of conservatives support him. I dont think it was a problem for him initially. He was the only defender of pruitt within the white house. Kelly wanted him out, others. Jim enhoff said he was sort of ready. But he doesnt care until you see so many cases an everything is piling up. It gets to a point where he says, wait a second, is this affecting my persona, my perception, and then he gives in. So its all about him. Thats how i read things. All right. So lets take that premise, because i agree that its all about him. Lets start with trade, right. Let me put up the full screen of what he said last night on air force one. By the way, i love that this president loves to come back and talk to the press corps on air force one. I dont think he gets enough credit for that. 34 billion in tariffs against china and then another 16 in two weeks and 200 billion in abeyance and then 300 in abeyance. So 50 billion plus 200 billion plus 300 billion. So youre talking about real money. The president cares what ceos think of him. I wonder in that same vein how many of them have to tell him, oh, my god, this is what youre doing to us. Harley davidson, hes going to have a verbal war with. But what if its ten Harley Davidsons . The president does care what people think of him. I think but i think one of the main things that motivates him and one of the things that may be the sort of unified theory, im not sure i really have one yet, has to do with pictures. For me it was the pictures of the children. It was the pictures maybe to some extent of that mother acosting pruitt at the restaurant, talking to him. But i also look at he does not back down. He does not back down easily. He does not back down quickly. He counterpunches. I thought the insight that we got yesterday about pruitt, because the mystery was always why did it take so long. When you saw pruitts resignation letter, you got some of the answer, is he has been sucking up to the president and talking about how blessed he is to serve him and serve him and serve him for months. He basically delayed the firing. Thats how he did it. But i think the Television Point is correct. I think especially with the kids on the border. Once it reached a certain situation, cable was wall to wall. Were still to an extent wall to wall on that. We know he watches a lot of television and a lot of articles have been written about that in the washington post. The pruitt situation, there were a lot of articles written about it, but it took a while for that to gear up to Like Television level. I think he starts to see that and hes like, okay, is this a problem. You also mentioned senator enhoff. I do think there are probably republican senators in congress who are like, dude, this is an election year. Our people dont want to have to answer for scott pruitt because there is no good answer. I had somebody credit bill shine. Really . I have no idea whether thats true or not but him going, hey, this looks bad. Thats how you tell the president , hey, it looks bad. If you just say the phrase looks bad. You mentioned tariffs and in the case of tariffs i think its different. Ideologically, hes been consistent. What does that mean to you . He likes tariffs. He is not caving for some time. Thats essentially your point. I think he believes that we can become selfsufficient, that we can go back to before the trade agreements. So i dont see him caving, no. It is going to be, i think, a lot easier and more demonstrable and predictable that he would cave on the children than he would cave on tariffs. Tariffs do not make for Good Television. There may be some angry soybean farmers and ceos. Im curious about moms and dads in grocery stores. When the prices start to go up. Especially on food in particular. But anyway, let me bring up another one. What about nato. Heres the president last night. About his favorite member of nato these days. Take a listen. And i said, you know, angela, i cant guarantee it, but were protecting you and it means a lot more to you than protecting us, because i dont know how much protection we get by protecting you. Later in the show were going to get into a little bit of a History Lesson of world war ii. Somebody over there might need one. But how do you change his mind on nato . I was with somebody today who said, you know, the policy of the United States hasnt changed, but they acknowledge they dont know what he will do at the meeting. Yeah. I think it has the same problem that trade has, which is it didnt make for Good Television to talk about nato. Even though people will try to do as many interviews as possible, well see pictures from it. The time zones will be a little off when you see those pictures. He does not think his base cares what he does about nato. And so he can do whatever he wants to do. His base has a bit of an isolationist streak too. His base enjoys hearing him say weve been treated like shmucks and were not going to take it anymore. And other people should pay more money. And other people should pay more money. And you know what, he does have a point that other people should pay more money. I was looking at a chart this morning and germany is not paying its fair share. Other president s have made that point. They have made it without the kind of threatening language. Theres a subtly. And the ambassador to nato came in and did the Conference Call and she did that subtly too, but she sort of praised some of our partners in nato by saying a lot of people, like 16 countries have increased the amount of money theyre spending on nato. Including germany. Although germany not at the number President Trump wants them at. Dont forget, germanys economy is larger than everybody elses so in raw dollars its a huge jump. But she was being careful. It was funny to listen to this Conference Call and have her, number one, dismiss this idea of germany and taking the troops out and is that going to come up with nato and know exactly what the president of the United States has said about it. Everyone else around him who does this is careful. Ill say this, first of all, it definitely plays with his base. I dont understand they understand the real importance and impact of nato so it does play to the base very well. However, i must say that having been in italy for a couple of weeks now nice tan. Showoff. Well, but what im seeing in europe is some leaders starting to support trump. You see one government is a pro trump government. Within nato as well and other countries as well, they may end up agreeing or understanding or supporting trump. So europe is in a very interesting situation where its not a monolith. There are big divisions in europe. And trump by doing this is also taking advantage of those divisions. I think you can bully the eu on tariffs and a lot of things and nato because of those perceived weaknesses. The problem is you cant bully china. Let me go to another thing last night that i thought was playing with matches next to kerosene and that was his sort of dismissal of the me too movement in a way that made a lot of people uncomfortable. Take a listen. Lets say im debating pocahontas, right . I promise you ill do this. I will take you know those little kits they sell on television for 2 . We will take that little kit and say but we have to do it gently. Because were in the me too generation, so we have to be very gentle. And we will very gently take that kit and we will slowly toss it, hoping it doesnt hit her and injure her arm. And we will say i will give you a Million Dollars to your Favorite Charity paid for by trump if you take the test and it shows youre an indian, you know. I dont want you to get drawn into this. Elizabeth warren, she created her own problem. You can make that joke without involving me too. He didnt have to go there. And thats where im curious. Like is that a bridge too far . I think for a lot of women, it is a bridge too far. I think there are women in suburban enclaves who did vote for him last time who remember the last time they were sexually harassed, the last time they were sexually assaulted, what happened to them in college. That kind of thing, if it actually gets out and theyre able to hear it is something that will go to the back of their brain. Does that mean theyre not going to vote for him again . I dont know, but it is one addition. Its very fascinating he said me too generation and it really resonated with me. You look at the polling and you look at the position of millenials and especially millenial women on trump and the enormous deficit he has with them. Why did he choose to do that . You know that could be a tell. Thats how his advisers are telling him well, its the millenials. Dont worry about it, its the millenials that dont like you. You think its an advisor thing . Somebody handed him. He grabbed that nugget an merged me too and millenials together somehow. But no sane political advisor, maybe im limiting it, would have suggested bringing up me too in that context. But if youre trying to explain away your gender gap numbers, you say theyre the me too generation. I think this is the authentic trump. He got off the teleprompter and he starts talking and showing who he is. Hes boldly gone where no man has gone before. Well, no man in the 21st century has gone before. No man who has been accused of assaulting and harassing as many women as he has. Its about sensitivity, the sensitive liberals dont want to talk about this, im going to say that. For his base there is concern with the me too movement in the sense that they see that some that its a form to advance political correctness. So hes talking to his base clearly. Talking to those men. In montana. In montana. The problem is hes not talking to anybody outside of his coalition. And if youre a republican running for election this year, that has to have you a little bit nervous. Well pause this. Thank you very much. Up ahead, the white house takes a shine to bill shine. How the former fox news executive could have an interesting impact on the Trump Administration. Well be right back. And now for the rings. Im a fouryearold ring bearer with a bad habit of swallowing stuff. Still wont eat my broccoli, though. And if you dont have the right overage, you could be paying for that pricey love band yourself. So get an allstate agent, and be better protected from mayhem. Like me. Can a ring bearer get a snack around here . So lets promote our Summer Travel deal on choicehotels. Com like this. Surfs up. Earn a 50 gift card when you stay just twice this summer. Or, badda book. Badda boom. Book now at choicehotels. Com but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered. In jellyfish. In clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. The name to remember. Welcome back. Critics of the Trump Administration say that fox news is helping call the shots in the west wing. Well, now theyre kind of really right. Former longtime fox news producer and executive bill shine is now White House Deputy chief of staff for communications. Shines hiring is not only notable because of his former job title, but because of why he left fox news. According to vanity fairs gabriel sherman, shine was forced out at fox last year, in part for enabling Sexual Harassment at the company. Now, shine has denied knowledge of the behavior of former fox news chairman roger ailes who left after being accused of Sexual Harassment. Sherman also reports that shines move to the white house came at the urging of one of fox newss personalities and somebody shine is very close with, sean hannity. Speaking of gabe sherman, he joins me now as our networks foremost expert on all things bill shine. Mr. Sherman, welcome back to the show, sir. Thanks, chuck. So lets start with why didnt bill shine get a job after fox and before the white house . Well, you know, he sean hannity has been lobbying the president to bring shine into the white house. It has been something that hannity has pushed for. Shine was reluctanreluctant, ac to my sources close to shine. His family was reluctant about him stepping into the public eye after so publicly leaving fox news under a cloud of scandal. But the president remained determined and courted him and ultimately of course was successful in bringing him in this week. This is a relatively new relationship, though. The president s relationship was with rupert and roger. Yeah. How did i mean so this was a sean hannity sort of connection here. Yeah. When did they connect . When do you get the sense that the president said, yeah, to borrow a pun, took a shine to bill shine . Going back to the campaign, of course, trump had a relationship with shine. It wasnt close. His primary relationship was with roger ailes. But through the fox orbit, donald trump was aware of bill shine. And then after the inauguration, sean hannity emerged as trumps biggest booster and de facto spokesperson in the media, that relationship developed. Sean hannity brought bill shine down to the white house, they had a private dinner several months ago and that relationship developed. I think what this is emblematic of, though, chuck, is something that you touched on earlier in the last block. Donald trump is doubling down on his base. Hes making no effort to broaden the message. Sean hannity is speaking almost exclusively for the most diehard of trump supporters, and bill shine, who for years at fox with Sean Hannitys producer before ascending into the executive ranks, really has an innate understanding of that diehard base. With him becoming deputy chief of staff and Communications Director is a signal that this white house is going to laser in on that base and try to bring them out in the midterms. So this was what youre saying essentially is it was an optics hire more than anything else. Let me ask this then about bill shine. First of all, was he hirable outside of this white house, with all how he was essentially escorted out of fox news, you know, he was