Transcripts For MSNBCW NBC News Special Democratic Debate 20160118

Its up to us to make sure why make it greater. I believe were going to make history one more time. The Democratic Candidates debate live from the Gilliard Center in charlescharleston, so carolina. Here now, lester holt. Good evening and welcome to the nbc news youtube Democratic Candidates debate. Soon americans will have their say with the first vote of the 2016 Campaign Just 15 days away in iowa and New Hampshire not far behind. Tonight will be the final opportunity to see these candidates facetoface before the final voting begins. Our sprpurpose is to highlight examine the differences between the three candidates. Secretary Hillary Clinton, senator Bernie Sanders and governor Martin Omalley. [ applause ] welcome to all of you. Hope you are excited. Were excited. We want to thank our host, the Congressional Black Caucus institute. Im joined by my colleague Andrea Mitchell. 60 seconds for answers, 30 seconds for followups or rebuttals. I know youll all keep exactly to time so our job should be pretty easy. Also questions from the youtube community. This is a critical point in the race. Youve been defining your differences with each other especially in the last week on the campaign trail. Were here to facilitate this conversation on behalf of the voters so they know exactly where you stand as you face off tonight. Lets have a great debate. Well begin with 45second Opening Statements from each candidate. Good evening. I want to thank the Congressional Black Caucus institute and the people of charleston for hosting us here on the eve of Martin Luther king day tomorrow. I remember well when my youth minister took me to hear dr. King. I was a teenager, and his moral clarity, the message that he conveyed that evening really stayed with me and helped to set me on a path to service. I also remember that he spent the last day of his life in memphis fighting for dignity and higher pay for working people. And that is our fight still. We have to get the economy working and incomes rising for everyone, including those who have been left out and left behind. We have to keep our communities and our country safe. We need a president who can do all aspects of the job. I understand that this is the hardest job in the world. Im prepared and ready to take it on. And i hope to earn your support to be the nominee of the Democratic Party and the next president of the United States. Thank you. Senator sanders, your opening statement, sir. Thank you. As we honor the extraordinary life of dr. Martin luther king jr. , its important not only that we remember what he stood for, but that we pledge to continue his vision to transform our country. And as we look out at our country today, what the American People understand is we have an economy thats rigged. That ordinary americans are working longer hours for lower wages. 47 Million People living in poverty and almost all of the new income and wealth going to the top 1 . And then to make a bad situation worse, we have a corrupt Campaign Finance system where millionaires and billionaires are spending extraordinary amounts of money to buy elections. This campaign is about a Political Revolution to not only elect a president but to transform this country. Governor omalley . My name is Martin Omalley. I was born the year dr. King delivered his i have a dream speech. I want to thank the people of South Carolina not only for hosting our debate but also for what you taught all of us in the aftermath of the tragic shooting at mother emmanuel church. You taught us that love would have the final word when you took down the Confederate Flag from your state house, let go of the past and moved forward. Eight years ago, you brought forward a new leader in barack obama to save our country from the second Great Depression and thats what hes done. Our country is doing better. Were creating jobs again. But in order to make good on the promise of equal opportunity and equal justice under the law, we have urgent work to do and the voices of anger and fear and division weve heard coming off the president ial republican podiums are pretty loud. We need new leadership. We need to come together as a people and build on the good things president obama has done. Thats why im running for president. I need your help. I ask for your vote and look forward to moving our country forward once again. Thank you. Thank you. To our first question. The first question ill be addressing to all of the candidates. President obama came to office determined to swing for the fences on health care reform. Voters want to know how youd complete your presidency. In my first 100 years in office, my top three priorities will be fill in the blank. Senator sanders. Thats what our campaign is about. Its thinking big. Understanding in the wealthiest country in the history of the world, we should have health care for every man, woman and child as a right that we should raise the minimum wage to at least 15 an hour. That we have got to create millions of decent paying jobs by repairing our crumbling infrastructure. What my first days are about is bringing america together to end the decline of the middle class and tell the wealthy theyll start paying their fair share of taxes and well have a government that works for all of us and not just big campaign contributors. Secretary clinton . Id present my plans for create i creating good jobs, raising the minimum wage and guaranteeing finally equal pay for womens work. I would also [ applause ] i would also be presenting my plans to build on the Affordable Care act and improve it by decreasing the outofpocket cost by putting a cap on Prescription Drug costs, by looking for ways that we can put the Prescription Drug accident and Health Insurance Company Business on a more stable platform that doesnt take too much money out of the pockets of hardworking americans. And third, i would be working in every way that i knew to bring our country together. We do have too much division, too much meanspiritedness. Theres a lot we have to do on immigration reform, on voting rights, on Campaign Finance reform, but we need to do it together. Thats how well have the kind of country for the 21st century that we know will guarantee our children and grandchildren the kind of future they deserve. Governor omalley, same question. Thank you. First of all, i would lay out an agenda to make wages go up again for all americans, rather than down. Equal pay for equal work. Making it easier rather than harder for people to join labor unions and bargain collectively for wages. Getting 11 million of our neighbors out of the underground shadow economy by passing comprehensive immigration reform. Raising the minimum wage top 15 an hour, however we can, wherever we can. Secondly, i believe the greatest Business Opportunity to come to the United States of america in 100 years is Climate Change. And i put forward a plan to move us to a 100 Clean Electric Energy grid by 2050 and create 5 million jobs along the way. Thank you im sorry, that was second lester, and third and finally, we need a new agenda for americas cities. We have not had a new agenda for americas city since jimmy carter. We need a new agenda for america cities thatll invest in the talents and skills in our people, invest in transportation, infrastructure, and transit options. And make our cities the leading edge in this move to a redesigned, built, Clean Green Energy future thatll employ our people. All right governor, thank you. Youve all laid out large visions, and were going to cover a lot of the ground you talked about. Last couple of weeks of this campaign have featured some of the sharpest exchanges in the race. Lets start with one of them, the issue of guns. Senator sanders, last week secretary clinton called you, quote, a pretty reliable vote for the gun lobby. Right before the debate, you changed your position on immunity for lawsuits for gun manufacturers. Can you tell us why . Well, i think secretary clinton knows what she says is very disingenuous. I have a dminus voting record from the nra. I was, in 1988, there were three candidates running for congress in the state of vermont. I stood up to the gun lobby, and came out and maintained the position that in this country, we should not be selling militarystyle assault weapons. I have supported, from day one, at instant background check to make certain that people who should not have guns do not have guns. And that includes people with criminal backgrounds, people who are mentally unstable. I support what president obama is doing in terms of trying to close the gun show loopholes, and i think it should be a federal crime if people act as strawmen. We have seen in this city a horrendous tragedy of a crazed person praying with people and coming out and shooting nine people. This should not be a political issue. What we should be doing is working together. And by the way, as a senator from a rural state that has virtually no gun control, i believe that i am in an excellent position to bring people together senator, you didnt answer the question that you did change your position on immunity for gun manufacturers. Can you answer the question as to why. What i have said is that the gun manufacturers liability bill had some good provisions. Among other things, we prohibited ammunition that would have killed cops who had protection on. We had child safety protection on guns in that legislation, and what we also said is a small, mom and pop gun shop, who sells a gun legally to somebody, should not be held liable if somebody does something terrible with that gun. I said i would relook at it. We are going to relook at it. And i will support stronger provisions. Secretary clinton, would you like to respond to senator sanders . Yes, look, i have made it clear, based on senator sanders own record, that he has voted with the nra, with the gun lobby numerous times. He voted against the brady bill five times. He voted for what we call the charleston loophole. He voted for immunity from gunmakers and sellers, which the nra said was the most important piece of Gun Legislation in 20 years. He voted to let guns go on to amtrak, guns go into national parks. He voted against doing research to figure out how we can save lives. Lets not forget what this is about. 90 people a day die from gun violence in our country. Thats 33,000 people a year. One of the most horrific examples, not a block from here, where we had nine people murdered. Now, i am pleased to hear that senator sanders has reversed his position on immunity, and i look forward to him joining with those members of congress who have already introduced legislation. There is no other industry in america that was given the total pass that the gunmakers and dealers were, and that needs to be reversed. All right. Governor omalley. You signed tough gun control measures as governor of maryland, and there are a lot of democrats in the audience here in South Carolina who own guns. This conversation might be worrying many of them. They may be hearing, you want to take my guns. What would you say to them . This is what i would say. Ive listened to secretary clinton and senator sanders go back on forth on which has the most inconsistent record on gun safety legislation, and i would have to agree with both of them. Theyve both been inconsistent when it comes to this issue. Im the one candidate on this stage that actually brought people together to pass comprehensive gun safety legislation. This is very personal to me being from baltimore. I will never forget one occasion visiting a little boy in Johns Hopkins hospital, getting a birthday haircut, age of 3, when drug dealers turned that into a shooting gallery and boys head was pierced with a bullet. It did not kill him. I remember visiting him and his mother in the hospital. And his diapers and tubes running in and out of his head. Same anyone as my little boy. After the slaughter of the kids in connecticut, we be pass in our state comprehensive gun safety legislation. It did have the ban on combat assault weapons, universal background checks, and we did not interrupt a single persons hunting season. Ive never met a selfrespecting deer hunter that needed an ar15 to down a deer. So were able to actually do these things. Governor, thank you. Secretary clinton, this is a community that has suffered a lot of heartache in the last year. Of course, as you mentioned, the church shootings. We wont forget the video of of walter scott being shot in the back while running from police. We understand that a jury will decide whether that Police Officer was justified, but it played straight to the fears of many africanamerican men that their lives are cheap. Is that perception or in your view, is it reality . Well, sadly, its reality. And it has been heart breaking and incredibly outraging to see the constant stories of young men, like walter scott, as you said, who have been killed by Police Officers. There needs to be a concerted effort to address the systemic racism in our criminal Justice System. And that requires a very clear agenda for retraining Police Officers, looking at ways to end racial profiling, finding more ways to really bring the disparities that stalk our country into high relief. One out of three africanamerican men may well end up going to prison. Thats the statistic. I want people here to think what we would be doing if it was one out of three white men. And very often the black men are arrested, convicted, and incarcerated for offenses that do not lead to the same results for white men. So we have a very serious problem that we can no longer ignore. Your time is up. Senator sanders, my next question is for you. Let me respond to what the secretary said. We have a criminal Justice System which is broken. Who in america is satisfied that we have more people in jail than any other country on earth, including china . Disproportionally africanamerican and latino. Who is satisfied that 51 of africanamerican young people are either unemployed or underemployed . Who is satisfied that millions of people have Police Records for possessing marijuana when the ceos of wall street companies who destroyed our economy have no police record. Senator sanders we need to take we need to take a very hard look at our criminal Justice System, investing in jobs and education, not in jails and incarceration. Just over a week ago the chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus endorsed secretary clinton, not you. He said choosing her over you was not a hard decision. In fact, our polling shows shes beating you more than two to one among minority voters. How can you be the nominee if you dont have the support . Let me talk about polling. As secretary secretary clinton well knows, when this campaign began, she was 50 points ahead of me. We were all of 3 percentage points. Guess what . In iowa, New Hampshire, the race is very, very close. Maybe were ahead in New Hampshire. In terms of polling, guess what, we are running ahead of secretary clinton in terms of taking on my good friend donald trump. Beating him by 19 points in New Hampshire, 13 points in the last National Poll that i saw. To answer your question, when the Africanamerican Community becomes familiar with my congressional record and with our agenda and with our views on the economy and criminal justice, just as the general population has become more supportive, so will the Africanamerican Community, so will the latino community. We have the momentum. Were on a path to a victory. Governor, im coming to you in a second. Google searches for the words black lives matter surpassed Civil Rights Movement here last year. Black lives matter was the number one political issue. Governor omalley, you campaign on your record as governor of maryland and before that, the mayor of baltimore last year. Of course, baltimore was rocked by violent unrest in the wake of the death of freddie gray. And right from the start of your campaign, youve been dogged by those who blame your toughrun crime, so called zerotolerance policies as mayor for contributing to that unrest. What responsibility do you bear . Yeah, lets talk about this. When i ran for mayor in 1999, lester, it was not because the city was doing well. It was because we were burying over 300 young, poor black men every single year. And thats why i ran. Because, yes, black lives matter. And we did a number of things we werent able to make our city immune from setbacks such as freddie gray unrest and tragic death showed. But we were able to save a lot of lives doing things that actually worked to improve police and community relations. The truth of the matter is, we created a civilian review board. And many of these things are in the new agenda for criminal Justice Reform that ive put forward. We created a civilian review board, gave them their own detectives. We required the reporting of discourtesy, use of excessive force, lethal force. I repealed the possession of marijuana as a crime in our state. I drove our incarcerate rate down to 20year lows and drove Violent Crime down to 30year lows and became the first governor south of the masondixon line to repeal the death penalty. I feel a responsibility every day to find things that work. All right and do more. Lets talk more about policing and the criminal Justice System. Senator sanders, a few times tonight were going to hear from some of the most prominent voices on youtube, starting with Francesca Ramsey who tackles racial stereotypes. I believe theres a huge conflict of interest when local prosecutors investigate cases of Police Violence within their own community. For example, last month, the officers involved in the case of 12yearold tamir rice werent indicted. How would your presidency ensure the incidents of Police Violence are investigated and prosecuted fairly . Senator sanders. I apologize for not hearing all of that question. Would you like me to read it back to you . Yeah. Prosecutors i believe theres a huge conflict of interest when local prosecutors investigate cases of Police Violence within their communities. Most recently, we saw this with a nonindictment of the officers involved in the case of 12yearold tamir rice. How would your presidency ensure incidents of Police Violence are prosecuted fairly. This is a responsibility for the u. S. Justice department to get involved. Whenever anybody in this country is killed while in police custody, they should automatically trigger a u. S. Attorney generals investigation. Second of all, and i speak as a mayor who worked very closely, and well with Police Officers, a vast majority who are honest hardworking people trying to do a difficult job, but let us be clear. If a Police Officer breaks the law, like any public official, that officer must be held accountable. And thirdly, we have got to demilitarize our Police Departments so they dont look like occupying armies. Weve got to move toward community policing. And fourthly, we have got to make our Police Departments look like the communities they serve in their diversity. Secretary clinton, this question is for you. Tonight parts of america are on the grip of a deadly heroin epidemic, spanning race and class, hitting small towns and cities alike. Its become a major issue in this race. In a lot of places where youve been campaigning, despite an estimated trillion dollars spent, many say the war on drugs has failed. What would you do . Well, lester, youre right. Everywhere i go to campaign, im meeting families who are affected by the drug problem that mostly is opioids and heroin now, and lives are being lost, and children are being orphaned. Ive met a lot of grandparents who are now taking care of grandchildren. So i have tried to come out with a comprehensive approach that, number one, does tell the states that we will work with you from the federal government putting more money, about a billion dollars a year, to help states have a different approach to dealing with this epidemic. The policing needs to change. Police officers must be equipped with the antidote to an overdose or an opioid overdose. They should be able to administrate it. So should firefighters and other. We have to move away from treating the use of drugs as a crime and instead, move it to where it belongs, as a health issue. And we need to divert more people from the criminal Justice System into drug courts, into treatment, and recovery. Time. And this is the kind of approach that we should take in dealing with what is now a growing epidemic. Senator sanders, would you like to respond . Sure. I agree with everything the secretary just said, but let me just add this. There is a responsibility on the part of the pharmaceutical industry and the Drug Companies who are producing all of these drugs and not looking at the consequence of it. And second of all, when we talk about addiction being a disease, the secretary is right. What that means is we need a revolution in this country in terms of Mental Health treatment. People should be able to get the treatment that they need, when they need it, not two months from now, which is why i believe in universal health care with Mental Health a part of that. Thats time. Were going to get in to all of that. Just ten seconds. And when we come back the anger brewing in america. And im still struggling with my diabetes. I do my best to manage. But its hard to keep up with it. Your body and your diabetes change over time. Your treatment plan may too. Know your options. Oncedaily toujeo® is a longacting insulin from the makers of lantus®. 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Tell your doctor if you take other medicines and about all your medical conditions. Insulins, including toujeo, in combination with tzds thiazolidinediones may cause serious side effects like Heart Failure that can lead to death, even if youve never had Heart Failure before. Dont dilute or mix toujeo® with other insulins or solutions as it may not work as intended and you may lose blood sugar control, which could be serious. Pay no more than 15 per prescription for 12 months. Eligibility restrictions apply. Learn more at toujeo. Com info or call 8005803421. Also, 9 out of 10 Medicare Part d patients can get toujeo® at the lowest branded copay. Ask your doctor about the proven full 24hour blood sugar control of toujeo®. Welcome back to charleston. Lets turn to another area where theres been fierce disagreement, health care. Senator sanders and secretary clinton, you both mentioned it in your 100day priority. Lets turn to Andrea Mitchell now to lead that question. Thank you, lester. Secretary clinton, senator sanders favors what he calls medicare for all. Now you said that what he is proposing would tear up obamacare and replace it. Secretary clinton, is it really fair to say that Bernie Sanders wants to kill obamacare . Well, andrea, i am committed to universal health care. I have worked on this for a long time. People may remember that i took on the Health Insurance industry back in the 90s, and i didnt quit until we got the childrens Health Insurance program that insures 8 million kids. I certainly respect senator sanders intention, but when youre talking about health care, the details really matter. And therefore, we have been raising questions about the nine bills that he introduced over 20 years as to how they would work and what would be the impact on Peoples Health care. He didnt like that. His campaign didnt like it either. And tonight, hes come out with a new health care plan. And again, we need to get into the details, but heres what i believe. The Democratic Party and the United States worked since harry truman to get the Affordable Health care act passed. We finally have a path to universal health care. We have accomplished so much already, i do not to want see the republicans repeal it, and i dont to want see us start over again with a contentious debate. I want us to defend and build on the Affordable Care act and improve it. Okay. Senator sanders. Secretary clinton didnt answer your question because what her campaign was saying, Bernie Sanders was saying, my entire life, he wants to end medicare and medicaid and the childrens Health Insurance program. That is nonsense. What a medicare for all program does is finally provide in this Country Health care for every man, woman, and child, as a right. Now, the truth is, that franklin roosevelt, harry truman, do you know what they believed in . They believed that health care should be available to all of our people. Im on the committee that wrote the Affordable Care act. I made the Affordable Care act along with jim clyburn a better piece of legislation. I voted for it, but right now, what we have to deal with is the fact that 29 Million People still have no Health Insurance. We are paying the highest prices in the world for Prescription Drugs. Getting ripped off. And heres the important point, we are spending far more per person on health care than the people of any other country. My proposal, provide health care to all people, get private insurance out of Health Insurance, lower the cost of health care for middle class families by 5,000 bucks. Thats the vision we need to take. If i can you know, i have to say im not sure whether were talking about the plan you just introduced tonight or were talking about the plan you introduced nine times in the congress, but the fact is, we have the Affordable Care act. That is one of the greatest accomplishments of president obama, of the Democratic Party, and of our country, and we have already seen 19 million americans get insurance. We have seen the end of preexisting conditions keeping people from getting insurance. We have seen women no longer paying more for our insurance than men. And we have seen young people up to the age of 26 being able to stay on their parents policy. Now there are things we can do to improve it, but to tear it up and start over again, pushing our country back into that kind of a contentious debate, i think is the wrong direction. It is. I have to talk about something thats actually working in our state. No one is tearing this up. Were going to go forward. But what the secretary neglected to mention, not just the 29 million still have no Health Insurance, that even more are underinsured with huge copayments and deductibles. Tell me why we are spending almost three times more than the british who guarantee health care to all of their people . 50 more than the french. More than the canadians. The vision from fdr and harry truman was health care for all people as a right in a costeffective way. Were not going to tear up the Affordable Care act. I helped write it, but we are going to move on top of that to a medicare for all system. Andrea, andrea, instead of andrea, i think instead of attacking one another on health care, we should be talking about the things that are actually working. In our state, we have moved to an allpayer system with the Affordable Care act. We now have moved all of our acute care hospitals, that driver of cost at the center, away from fee for service and actually to pay we pay them based on how well they keep patients out of the hospital. How well they keep their patients. Thats the future. We need to build on the Affordable Care act, do the things that work, and reduce costs and increase access. And thats exactly what we are able to do based on the foundation of the Affordable Care act. What governor omalley just said is one of the models that we will be looking at to make sure we do get costs down. We do limit a lot of the unnecessary cost that we still have in the system. But, with all do respect, to start over again, with a whole new debate is something that i think would set us back. The republicans just voted last week to repeal the Affordable Care act, and thank goodness, president obama vetoed it and saved obamacare for the American People. Senator sanders, let me ask you this, though. You talked medicare for all, and tonight youve released a very detailed plan not all that detailed. Two hours before the debate, you did. Let me ask you about vermont. You tried in the state of vermont, and vermont walked away from this kind of idea of medicare for all single payer because they concluded it would require major tax increases and by some estimates it would double the budget. Andrea, let me just say this. You might want to ask the governor of the state of vermont why he could not do it. Im not the governor. Im the senator from the state of vermont. Second of all, second of all, here is what the real point is. In terms of all of the issues youve raised, the good questions youve raised. What it all comes down to, do you know why we cant do what every other major country is doing . Its because we have a Campaign Finance system that is corrupt. We have superpacs. We have the pharmaceutical industry pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into Campaign Contributions and lobbying, and the private Insurance Companies as well. What this is really about is not the rational way to go forward, its medicare for all. It is whether we have the guts to stand up the private Insurance Companies and all of their money and the pharmaceutical industry. Thats what this debate should be about. Well, as someone who, as someone who has a little bit of experience standing up to the Health Insurance industry, that spent, you know, many, many millions of dollars attacking me and probably will so again because of what i believe we can do, building on the Affordable Care act, i think its important to point out that there are a lot of reasons we have the Health Care System we have today. I know how much money influences the political decisionmaking. Thats why im for huge Campaign Finance reform. However, we started a system that had private Health Insurance. And even during the Affordable Care act debate, there was an opportunity to vote for what was called the public option. In other words, people could buyin to medicare, and even when the democrats were in charge of the congress, we couldnt get the votes for that. So, what im saying is really simple. This has been the fight of the Democratic Party for decades. We have the Affordable Care act. Lets make it work. Lets take the models that states are doing. We now have driven costs down to the lowest theyve been in 50 years. Now weve got to get individual costs down. Thats what im planning to do. And were going to take a turn now. Secretary clinton, in his final state of the union address, president obama said his biggest regret was his inability to bring the country together. If president obama couldnt do it, how will you . Great question. Its an important point the president made in his state of the union. And heres what i would say. I will go anywhere to meet with anyone at any time to find Common Ground. Thats what i did as a first lady when i worked with both democrats and republicans to get the childrens Health Insurance program. When i worked with tom delay one of the most partisan of republicans to reform the adoption and foster care system. What i did working in the senate, where i crossed the aisle often, working even with the senator from South Carolina, lindsey graham, to get tricare for National Guardsmen and women. And its what i did as secretary of state on numerous occasions, and most particularly, rounding up twothirds votes in order to pass a treaty that lowered the Nuclear Weapons in both russia and the United States. So i know its hard. But i also know youve got to work at it every single day. I look out here, i see a lot of my friends from the congress. And i know that they work at it every single day. Because maybe you cant only find a little sliver of Common Ground to cooperate with someone from the other party, but who knows, if youre successful there, maybe you can build even more. Thats what i would do. Senator sanders, a response . A couple of years ago when we understood that veterans were not getting the quality care they needed in a timely manner, i worked with folks like john mccain and others to pass the most comprehensive Veterans Health care legislation in modern history. But let me rephrase your question because i think, in all due respect, your expression, in all due respect, youre missing the main point. And the main point in the congress is not the republicans and democrats hate each other. Thats a mythology from the media. The real issue is that congress is owned by big money and refuses to do what the American People want them to do. The real issue is that on the real issue is that in area after area, raising the minimum wage to 15 bucks an hour. The American People want it. Rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure, creating 13 million jobs, the American People want it. Pay equity for women, the American People want it. Demanding that the wealthy start paying their fair share of taxes, the American People want it. Thats time. But let me the point is, we have to make Congress Respond to the needs of the people, not big money. Senator sanders, you call yourself a democratic socialist. I do. And throughout your career in politics, youve been critical of the Democratic Party, theres wasnt a hell of a big difference between the two major parties did i say that . How will you win a general election labeling yourself a democratic socialist . Because what i believe and what i was just saying, the Democratic Party needs major reform. To those of you in South Carolina, you know what, in mississippi, we need a 50state strategy so that people in South Carolina and mississippi can get the resources that they need. Instead of being dependent on superpacs, what we need is to be dependent on small, individual campaign contributors. We need an agenda that speaks to the needs of working families and lowincome people, not wealthy campaign contributors. Yeah, but senator, you can we need to expand what the input into the Democratic Party. I am very proud that in this campaign, we have seen an enormous amount of excitement from young people, from working people. We have received more individual contributions than any candidate in the history of this country up to this point. Yeah, but senator, you never came to campaign for Vincent Shaheen when he was running for governor. In fact, neither of you came to campaign for him when he was running for governor. We can talk all we want about wanting to build a stronger Democratic Party, but lester, the question you answered, its no laughing matter. The most recurring question i get when i stand on the chair all across iowa and talk with my neighbors is, how are you going to heal the divisions and the wounds in our country . This is the biggest challenge we face as a people. All my life, i brought people together over deep divides and very old wounds, and thats what we need now in a new leader. We cannot keep talking past each other declaring all republicans are our enemies or the war is all about being against millionaires or billionaires or its all against american muslims. As Frederick Douglass said, we are one, our cause is one. And we must help each other. And that is time. Secretary clinton, next question after you and i respectfully disagree with my friend over here. And that is, you are right. All of us have denounced trumps attempts to divide this country, the antilatino rhetoric, the racist rhetoric, the antimuslim rhetoric, but where i disagree with you, governor omalley, is i do believe we have to deal with the fundamental issues of a handful of billionaires i agree with that. Who control economic and political life of this country. I agree. Nothing real will get happened unless we have a Political Revolution where millions of people finally stand up. And were going to get into that. Secretary clinton, heres a question from youtube. Its from a young video blogger who has over 5 million subscribers. He has a question about importance of Younger Voters. Hi, im 23 and my audience is around the same age. Getting my generations vote should be a priority for any president ial candidate. Now i know senator sanders is pretty popular among my peers, but what i want to know is how are all of you planning on engaging us further in this election . Secretary clinton. Well, thanks for the question, and congratulations on 5 Million Viewers on youtube. Thats quite an accomplishment. Look, this election is mostly about the future and, therefore, it is of greatest urgency for young people. Ive laid out my ideas about what we can do to make college affordable, how we can help people pay off their student debts and save thousands of dollars, how we can create more good jobs, because a lot of the young people that i talk with are pretty disappointed about the economic prospects they feel theyre facing. Making Community College free. Making it possible to attend a Public College or university with debtfree tuition. Looking for ways to protect our rights. Especially from the concerted republican assault on voting rights, on womens rights, on gay rights, on civil rights, on workers rights. And i know how much young people value their independence, their autonomy and their rights. I think this is an election where we have to pull young people and older people together to have a strategy about how were going to encourage even more americans to vote because it is absolutely clear to me thats time, but secretary clinton to turn over to the republicans would be bad for everybody, especially young people. Quick followup, 30 second followup. Why is senator sanders beating you 21 among Younger Voters . I have the greatest respect for senator sanders and for his supporters, and im going to keep working as hard as i can to reach as many people of all ages about what i will do. What the experience and the ideas that i have that i will bring to the white house, and i hope to have their support when im the democratic nominee. Were going to take a break. When we come back big banks, big business, and big differences among the candidates on the american economy. Well be right back. Differences among the candidates on the american economy. Well be right back. Its big. 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Senator sanders, you released a tough new ad last week in which without mentioning secretary clinton by name, you talk about two democratic visions for regulating wall street. Quote, one says its okay to take millions from big banks and tell them what to do. My plan, break up the big banks, close the tax loopholes and make them pay their fair share. What do you see is the difference between what you would do about the banks and what secretary clinton would do . Well, the first difference is i dont take money from big banks. I dont get personal speaking fees from Goldman Sachs. What i would do [ applause ] what i would do is understand that when you have three out of the four largest banks today, bigger than they were when we bailed them out because they were too big to fail, when you have the six largest Financial Institutions having assets of 60 of the 60 of the gdp of america. Its pretty clear to me what you have to do. Bring back the 21st Century Glass eagle legislation and break up these huge Financial Institutions. They have too much economic power and they have too much financial power over our entire economy. If Teddy Roosevelt were alive today, the old republican trust buster, what he would say is, these guys are too powerful, break them up. I believe thats what the American People want to see. Thats my view. Secretary clinton, help the voter understand the daylight between the two of you here. Theres no daylight on the basic premise that there should be no bank too big to fail, and no individual too powerful to jail. We agree on that. But where we disagree is the comments that senator sanders has made that dont just affect me, i can take that, but hes criticized president obama for taking donations from wall street. And president obama has led our country out of the great recession. Senator sanders called him weak, disappointing. He even, in 2011, publicly sought someone to run in a primary against president obama. Now, i personally believe that president obamas work to push through the dodd frank, the dodd frank bill, and then to sign it was one of the most important regulatory schemes weve had since the 1930s. So im going to defend dodd frank, and im going to defend president obama for taking on wall street, taking on the financial industry, and getting results. Senator sanders, your response. First of all, set the record right. In 2006 when i ran for the senate, senator barack obama was kind enough to campaign for me. 2008, i did my best to see that he was elected, and in 2012, i worked as hard as i could to see that he was reelected. He and i are friends, weve worked together on many issues. We have some differences of opinion. But here is the issue, secretary touched on it, can you really reform wall street . When they are spending millions and millions of dollars on Campaign Contributions. And when they are providing speaker fees to individuals. So its easy to say, well, im going to do this and do that. But i have doubts when people receive huge amounts of money from wall street. I am very proud, i do not have a super pac. I do not want wall streets money. Ill rely on the middle class and working families thats time. I have a question for you [ applause ] you know, i think since, since senator standers followed 30second response. Your profusion of comments about your feelings toward president obama are a little strange given what you said about him in 2011. But look, i have a plan that most commentators have said is tougher, more effective, and more comprehensive. Thats not true. It builds on the dodd frank yes, it is. It builds on the dodd frank its just not true. Regulatory scheme but it goes much further oh, come on. Because both the governor and the senator have focused only on the big banks. Lehman brothers, aig, the shadow Banking Sector were as big a problem in what caused the great recession. I go after them and i can tell you that the Hedge Fund Billionaires who are running ads against me right now, and karl rove who started running an ad against me right now, funded by money from the Financial Services sector, sure thing, im the one they dont want to be up against. Governor omalley. Yeah, thank you. [ applause ] yeah, lester, what secretary clinton just said is actually not true. What [ applause ] i have put forward a plan that would actually put cops back on the beat of wall street. I have put forward a plan that was heralded as very comprehensive and realistic. Look, if a bank robber robs a bank and all you do is slap him on the wrist, hes going to rob banks again. The same thing is true with people in suits. Secretary clinton, i have a tremendous amount of respect for you, but for you to say theres no daylight on this between the three of us is not true. I support reinstituting a modern version of glass steel that would include going after the shadow banks, requiring Capital Requirements that would force them to no longer put us on the hook for these sorts of things, and prior debates ive heard you even bring up, now you bring up president obama here in South Carolina in defense of the fact of your cozy relationship with wall street. In an earlier debate, i heard you bring up even the 9 11 victims to defend it. The truth of the matter is, secretary clinton, you do not go as far in reining in wall street as i would. And the fact of the matter is, the people of america deserve to have a president thats on their side, protecting the main street economy from excesses on wall street and were just as vulnerable today. Secretary clinton, 30 second response. Yes, first of all [ applause ]. First of all, paul krugman, barney frank, others, have all endorsed my plan. Secondly, we have dodd frank. It gives us the authority already to break up big banks that pose we never used it. That pose a risk to the financial sector. I want to go further and add to that, and you know, governor, you have raised money on wall street. You raised a lot of money on wall street when you were the head of the Democratic Governors Association yeah, but i havent gotten a penny this year, somebody please, go on to martinomalley. Com, go on, send me your checks. Theyre not giving me zero. Yeah, well, the point is that if were going to be serious about this and not just try to score political points, we should know whats in dodd frank, and whats in dodd frank already gives the president the authority to regulators or it make decisions. Let me give you an example of how crypt this system is. Goldman sachs recently fined 5 billion. Goldman sachs has given this country two secretaries of treasury, one on the republicans, one under democrats. Say it. The leader of Goldman Sachs is a billionaire who comes to congress and tells us we should cut Social Security, medicare, and medicaid. Secretary clinton, and youre not the only one. I dont mean to just point the finger at you, youve received over 600,000 in speaking fees from Goldman Sachs in one year. I find it very strange that a Major Financial Institution that pays 5 billion in fines for breaking the law, not one of their executives is prosecuted, while kids who smoke marijuana get a jail sentence. Andrea. Well, the last point on this is, senator sanders, youre the only one on this stage that voted to deregulate the Financial Market in 2000, to take the cops off the street to use governor omalleys phrase, to make the s. E. C. And the Commodities Futures Trading Commission no longer able to regulate swaps and derivatives which were one of the main cause of the collapse in 08. So theres plenty if you want to theres plenty of problems that we all have to face together. And the final thing i would say, were at least having a vigorous debate about reining in wall street. The republicans want to give them more power and repeal dodd frank. Thats what we need to stop. Anyone who wants to check my record [ applause ] anyone who wants to check my record in taking on wall street, in fighting against the deregulation of wall street when wall street put billions of dollars in lobbying and Campaign Contributions to get the government off their backs. They got the government off their backs. Turns out that they were crooks and they destroyed our economy. I think its time to put the Government Back on their backs. Senator sanders. Senator sanders, weve talked a lot about things you want to do. You want Free Education for everyone, you want the federal minimum wage raised to 15 an hour, you want to expand Social Security benefits, youve been specific about what you want, lets talk about how to pay for all of this. Youve now said that you would raise taxes today, two hours or so ago, you said you would raise taxes to pay for your health care plan. You havent been specific about how to pay for the other things. Will you tell us tonight. Good. Youre right. I want to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure, create 13 million jobs. We do that by doing away with the absurd loophole that now allows major profitable corporations to stash their money in the Cayman Islands and not in some years pay a nickel in taxes. Yes, i do. I plead guilty. I want every kid in this country who has the ability to be able to go to a Public College or university tuitionfree, and by the way, i want a substantially lower student debt Interest Rates in this country as well. How do i pay for it . [ applause ] i pay for it through a tax on wall street speculation. This country and the middle class bailed out wall street, now it is wall streets time to help the middle class. In fact, we have documented, unlike secretary clinton, i have documented exactly how i would pay for our ambitious agenda. Andrea, im the only person on this stage secretary clinton, do you want to respond . Well, i have actually documented every way that im going to pay for what im doing. Because i think the American Public deserves to know. And you can go to my website and actually see that. But there are serious questions about how were going to pay for what we want to see our country do. And im the only candidate, standing here tonight who has said, i will not raise taxes on the middle class. I want to raise incomes, not taxes. And im going to do everything i can to make sure that the wealthy pay for debtfree tuition, for child care, for paid family leave to help us bring down student debt, were going to refinance that student debt, saving kids thousands of dollars, yeah, and that will also come out of some of the pockets of people in the Financial Services industry. But i will tell you exactly how i pay for everything i propose. Here is the major point let me ask you about taxes. Yeah. Because the most googled political issue in the last month was taxes. Now in your health care plan, the plan you released tonight, you would not only raise taxes on the wealthy, the details you released indicate you would raise taxes on the middle class also. Is that correct . What is correct, and im disappointed that secretary Clintons Campaign has made this criticism. Its a republican criticism. Secretary clinton does know a lot about health care. And she understands, i believe, that a medicare for all Single Payer Program would substantially lower the cost of health care for middle class families. So what we have got to acknowledge, and i hope the secretary does, is we are doing away with private Health Insurance premiums. So instead of paying 10,000 to blue cross or blue shield, yes, some middle class families would be paying slightly more in taxes, but the result would be that that middle class family would be saving some 5,000 in health care costs. Little bit more in taxes, do away with private Health Insurance premiums, its a good deal. Senator, senator, let me just follow up on that. On meet the press on december 20th you said you would only raise taxes on the middle class to pay for family leave. And having said that, now you say youre going to raise middle class taxes to pay for health care as well. Is that breaking your word . No, it is not breaking my word. When you are its one thing to say im raising taxes, its another thing to say that we are doing away with private Health Insurance premiums. If i save you 10,000 in private Health Insurance, and you pay a little bit more in taxes in total, there are huge savings in what your family is spending. Senator, im the only person on this stage thats actually balanced a budget every year for 15 years. I was mayor for eight years, i did that as well. Okay, so that was eight years, yes. Senator, i actually did it during a budget during a recession. And andrea, i had to make more cuts than any governor in the history of state of montana but we invested more in inf infrastructu infrastructure, more in transportation, we made our Public Schools number one in america five years in a row and went four years in a rewithoow t a pennys increase to college tuition. The things we need to do in our country, like debtfree college in the next five years. Like making, making National Service a universal option in order to cut youth unemployment in half in fact next three years, all these things can be done if we eliminate one entitlement we can no longer afford as a nation. And that is the entitlement that the superwealthy among us, those making more than 1 million, feel that they are entitled to paying a much lower marginal tax rate than was usual for the better part of these 80 years. If we tax earnings from investments on money, namely Capital Gains at the same rate as we tax earnings from sweat and hard work and toil, we can make the investments we need to make to make our country better. We have a lot to ground to cover here. Many democratic voters are passionate about the need to do something to combat the threat of Climate Change, including the team of scientists from youtubes minute earth channel. Heres their take. Hello from minute earth. Fossil fuels have long kept our cars moving and our lightbulbs lit. We now know that burning these fuels releases heattrapping gases that are warming our planet, causing seas to rise and contributing to events like devastating flooding last year. Fighting human cause Climate Change means giving up the addiction to fossil fuels and taking the bulk Energy Supply to alternative sources. Some countries have acted to make this transition, here at home we get a whopping 82 of our energy from coal, oil, and natural gas. In the u. S. Political gridlock, pressure from industry lobbyists, and insufficient r d have made an already tough battle against Climate Change even tougher. Senator sanders, americans love their suvs, which spiked in sales last year as gas prices plummeted. How do you convince americans that the problem of Climate Change is so urgent that they need to change their behavior . I think we already are. Younger generation understands it instinctively. I was home in burlington, vermont, on christmas eve, the temperature was 65 degrees. People in vermont know whats going on. People who did ice fishing where their ice is no longer there on the lake understand whats going on. Im on both the environmental and the energy committees. The debate is over. Climate change is real. It is already causing major problems. And if we do not act boldly and decisively, a bad situation will become worse. It is amazing to me, and i think well have agreement on this up here, that we have a major party called the Republican Party that is so owned by the fossil fuel industry, and their Campaign Contributions that they dont even have the courage, the decency to listen to the scientists. It is beyond my comprehension how we can elect a president of the United States, somebody like trump who believes that Climate Change is a hoax, invented by the chinese. [ laughter ] bottom line is we need to be bold, decisive, create millions of jobs. We must for the sake of our kids and grandchildren transform our Energy System away from fossil fuel to energy efficiency. And sustainable energy, ive got the most comprehensive legislation in the senate to do that. And as president , i will fight to make that happen. Governor omalley, 30 seconds. Thank you. Lester, on this stage tonight, this democratic stage, where we actually believe in science, i would like to challenge, and invite my colleagues here on this stage to join me in putting forward a plan to move us to a 100 clean, electric energy grid by 2050. It can be done. With solar, with wind, with new technologies, with green buildings. This can happen, but president obama made us more energy independent, but in all of the above strategy didnt land us on the moon, we need American Ingenuity and we need to reach this goal by 2050 for the sake of our kids. Thats time. Were going to take a break. When we return, the latebreaking developments regarding iran. The threat of isis now more real than ever on u. S. Soil, americans in fear, and hearing few good answers. Well be right back. Come on in pop pop. Happy birthday. I just had a heart attack. And now i have a choice. For her. For them. 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We are just past the halfway mark at our nbc news youtube Democratic Candidates debate. Boy, this is one that has actually lived up to the billing. Weve seen sharp exchanges on guns, health care, and wall street. A debate you could argue that has been largely focused on all things Bernie Sanders. He was on the defensive early, Hillary Clinton getting i think some control on the gun issue. But on health care and on wall street reform, it was Hillary Clinton on the defensive and it was a very aggressive Bernie Sanders. One thing of note here. Bernie sanders very much being the sort of revolutionary candidate, major change. Youve heard a lot of Hillary Clinton saying things like, she wants to build onto things that president obama did, wrapping herself in president obama. Lester and andrea, whats coming innext, guys . Weve covered a lot of ground but were going to be talking about isis, a threat to america. It always polls as one of the top concerns of americans and also latebreaking news. All the news that has happened from iran and the president s comments today, as well as what this means going forward. For the war on terror. What do we expect from iran and also whats happening in syria . A lot of Foreign Policy coming up. A lot of debate to come. Well be back from charleston after this. You got it. Its the commander in chief test. Thats whats next. Stay with us. The debate resumes right after this. Right after this. Charleston, Andrea Mitchell has questions now for the candidates starting with iran. Thank you, lester. Senator sanders, the nuclear deal is now in force. Iran is getting its billions of dollars. Several americans who have been held are now going to be heading home. The president said today, its a good day. A good day for diplomacy, its a time now to restore diplomatic relations for the First Time Since 1979 and actually reopen a u. S. Embassy in tehran . I think what we have got to do is move as aggressively as we can to normalize relations with iran, understanding that irans behavior in so many ways is something that we disagree with. Their support for terrorism, the antiamerican rhetoric were hearing from some of their leadership is something that is not acceptable. On the other hand, the fact that weve managed to reach an agreement, something that i very strongly supported, that prevents iran from getting a Nuclear Weapon and that we did that without going to war, and that i believe were seeing a thaw in our relationships with iran, is a very positive step. So if your question is do i want to see that relationship become more positive in the future . Yes. Can i tell you we should open an embassy in tehran tomorrow . No, i dont think we should. But i think the goal has got to be as we have done with cuba, to move and warm relations with a very powerful and important country in this world. Your response, secretary clinton. Well, im very proud of the iran nuclear agreement. I was very pleased to be part of what the president put into action when he took office. I was responsible for getting those sanctions imposed, which put the pressure on iran that brought them to the negotiating table, which resulted in this agreement. And so they have been, so far, following their requirements under the agreement, but i think we still have to carefully watch them. Weve had one good day over 36 years, and i think we need more good days before we move more rapidly toward any kind of normalization, and we have to be sure that they are truly going to implement the agreement, and then we have to go after them on a lot of their other bad behavior in the region, which is causing enormous problems in syria, yemen, iraq, and elsewhere. You mentioned syria, let me ask you about syria, all of you, lets turn to syria, the civil war thats been raging there. Are there any circumstances in which you could see deploying significant numbers of Ground Forces in syria, not just special forces, special operators, but significant Ground Forces to combat isis in a direct combat role. Let me start with you secretary clinton. Absolutely not. I have a threepoint plan that does not include american Ground Forces. It includes the United States leading an air coalition, which is what we are doing, supporting fighters on the ground, the iraqi army, which is beginning to show more ability, the sunni fighters that we are now helping to reconstitute and kurdish fighters on both sides of the border. I think we also have to try to disrupt their supply chain of foreign fighters and foreign money, and we do have to contest them in online space. Im very committed to both going after isis, but also supporting what secretary kerry is doing to try to move on a political, diplomatic course to try to begin to slow down and hopefully end the carnage in syria, which is the root of so many of the problems that we see in the region and beyond. Senator sanders. Ground forces, yes or no . As everybody here knows, this is an incredibly complicated and difficult issue. And i applaud, i know president obamas been getting a lot of criticism on this. I think he is doing the right thing. What the nightmare is, which many of my republican colleagues appear to want, is to not have learned the lesson of iraq. To get american young men and women involved in perpetual warfare in the quagmire of syria and the middle east would be an unmitigated disaster that as president i will do everything in my power to avoid. Andrea we should learn, we should learn from King Abdullah of jordan, one of the few heroes in a very unheroic place. And what abdullah said is this is a war for the soul of islam. And that muslim troops should be on the ground with our support and the support of other major countries. That is how we destroy isis, not with american troops in perpetual warfare. Governor omalley. Thank you. Andrea, governors have led us to victory in two world wars by doing what america does best, and that is by joining forces with others by acting in coalition. And i believe that president obama is doing the right thing in this case. We need to learn the lessons from the past. We need to provide the special, special ops advisors, we need to provide the technical support, but over the longterm, we need to develop new alliances. We need a much more Proactive National Security Strategy that reduces these threats before they rise to a level where it feels like we need to pull for a division of marines. And i also want to add one other thing here, i appreciate the fact that in our debate, we dont use the term you hear republicans throwing around trying to look all bravado and macho, sending other kids into combat. They keep using the term boots on the ground. A woman in burlington, iowa, said to me, when youre with your colleagues, dont refer to my son who served two tours of duty in iraq as a pair of boots on the ground. Now, we need to be mindful of the [ applause ] learning the lessons of the past. I have a question for senator sanders. Did the policies of the Obama Administration in which secretary clinton of course with was a part create a vacuum in iraq and syria that helped isis grow . No. I think the vacuum was created by the disastrous war in iraq, which i vigorously opposed. Not only did i vote against it, i helped lead the opposition. And what happened there is yeah, its easy to get rid of a twobit dictator like saddam hussein, but there wasnt the kind of thought as to what happens the day after you get him and what kind of political vacuum occurs and who rises up. Groups like isis. So i think that president obama made a promise to the American People when he ran. And he said, you know what, im going to do my best to bring american troops home. And i supported what he did. Our job is to train and provide military support for muslim countries in the area who are prepared to take on isis. And one point i want to make here that is not made often, you have incredibly wealthy countries in that region, countries like saudi arabia, countries like qatar, the largest, wealthiest country per capita in the world. They have got to start putting in some skin in the game, and not just ask the United States to do it. Secretary clinton. I want to talk to you about red lines, because former defense secretary chuck hagel said in a recent interview that president obamas decision to stand down on planned missile strikes against damascus after assad had used chemical weapons hurt the president s credibility. Should the president have stuck to his red line once he drew it . Look, i think that the president s decision to go after the chemical weapons once there was a potential opportunity to build on when the russians opened that door, resulted in a very positive outcome. We were able to get the chemical weapons out. I know from my own experience as secretary of state that we were deeply worried about assads forces using chemical weapons because it would have had not only a horrific effect on people in syria, but it could very well have affected the surrounding states, jordan, israel, lebanon, turkey. So getting those chemical weapons out was a big but should he have stuck to his line . Did it hurt u. S. Credibility . I think as commander in chief chief, youve got to constantly be evaluating the decisions you have to make. I know a little bit about this, having spent many hours in the situation room, advising president obama. And i want to just add to something that senator sanders said, the United States had a very big interest in trying to help stabilize the region. If there is any blame to be spread around, it starts with the Prime Minister of iraq who sectarianized his military, setting shia against sunni. It is amplified by assad who has waged one of the bloodiest, most terrible attacks on his own people. 250,000plus dead, millions fleeing. Causing this vacuum that has been filled, unfortunately, by terrorist groups including isis. So i think we are in the midst of great turmoil in this region. We have a proxy conflict going on between saudi arabia and iran. You know, one of the criticisms ive had of senator sanders is his suggestion that, you know, iranian troops be used to try to end the war in syria your time is up. Let me just which i dont think would be a good idea. Senator overall, a lot of the forces at work in the region are ones that we cannot directly influence, but we can youre out of time. Let me suggest [ overlapping talkers ] senator sanders secretary clinton and i think i agree with most of what she said. But where i think we have an honest disagreement, is that in the incredible quagmire of syria, where its hard to know whos fighting who, and if you give arms to this guy, it may end up in isis hand the next day. We know that. We all know, no argument, the secretary is actually right, assad is a pitcher of his own people, a man using chemical weapons against his own people. This is beyond disgusting. But i think in terms of our priorities in the region, our First Priority must be the destruction of isis. Our second priority must be getting rid of assad, through some political settlement, working with iran, working with russia. But the immediate task is to bring all interests together who want to destroy isis, including russia, including iran, including our muslim allies to make that the major priority. But in all of that senator and secretary, i think were leaving out something very important here. And that is that we still dont have the human intelligence, overt in terms of diplomatic intelligence or covert to understand even what the heck happens as the secondary and tertiary effects of some of these things. We are walking through the region, andrea, without the human intelligence that we need. And we need to make a renewed investment as a country in bringing up a new generation of Foreign Service officers, and bringing up a new generation of businesspeople, and actually understanding and having relationships in these places. So we have a better sense of what the heck happens after a dictate are topples and can take action to prevent another safe haven and another iteration of terror. Your time is up. Senator sanders mentioned russia a moment ago. Secretary clinton, you famously handed russias foreign minister a reset button in 2009. Since then, russia has annexed crimea, fomented a war in ukraine, provided weapons that downed an airliner and launched operations as weve just discussed to support assad in syria. As president , would you hand Vladimir Putin a reset button . It would depend on what i got for it. And i can tell you what we got in the first term. We got a new s. T. A. R. T. Treaty to reduce Nuclear Weapons between the United States and russia. We got permission to resupply our troops in afghanistan by traveling across russia. We got russia to sign on to our sanctions against iran, and other very important commitments. So look, in diplomacy, you are always trying to see how you can figure out the interests of the other to see if there isnt some way you can advance your security and your values. When putin came back in the fall of 2011, it was very clear he came back with a mission. And i began speaking out as soon as that happened because there were some fraudulent elections held, and russians poured out into the streets to demand their freedom, and he cracked down. And in fact, accused me of fomenting it. So we now know that he has a mixed record to say the least, and we have to figure out how to deal with him. Whats your relationship with him . Well my relationship with with, its its its interesting. [ laughter ] its one, i think, of respect. Weve had some very tough dealings with one another. And i know that hes someone that you have to continually stand up to. Because like many bullies, he is somebody who will take as much as he possibly can unless you do. And we need to get the europeans to be more willing to stand up, i was pleased they put sanctions on after crimea and Eastern Ukraine and the downing of the airliner, but weve got to be more united in preventing putin from taking a more aggressive stance in europe and the middle east. We to want turn right now to the issue of balancing National Security concerns with the privacy rights of americans. That brings us to youtube and this question. Hi, ive been making youtube videos about electronics and gadgets for the past seven years. I think americas future success is tied to getting all kinds of tech right. Tech companies are responsible for the Encryption Technology to protect personal data, but the government wants a back door into that information. So do you think its possible to find Common Ground and where do you stand on privacy versus security . Governor omalley. Thank you. I believe whether its a back door or front door that the american principle of law should still hold that our federal government should have to get a warrant. Whether they want to come through the back door or your front door. [ applause ] and i also agree, lester, with Benjamin Franklin said that said no people should ever give up their privacy and freedoms in a promise for security. Were a collaborative people. We need collaborative leadership here with Silicon Valley and other bright people in my own state of maryland and around nsa that can figure this out, but there are certain immutable principles that will not become antique things in our country so long as we defend our country and its values and its freedoms. And one of those things is our right to be secure in our homes, and our right to expect that our federal government should have to get a warrant. I also want to say that while weve made some progress on the patriotic act, i do believe we need an adversarial court system there, we need a public advocate, we need to develop jurisprudence, so we can develop a body of law that protects the privacy of americans in the information and digital age. Thats time. You have all talked about what you would do fighting isis over there, but weve been hit in this country by homegrown terrorists, from chattanooga to san bernardino, the recent shooting of a Police Officer in philadelphia, how are you going to fight the lone wolves here . Lester, year in and year out thats senator sanders, i wasnt clear, i apologize. Okay. I just wanted to add in the previous question, i voted against the usa patriot act for many of the reasons that governor omalley mentioned. But it is not only the government that we have to worry about, it is private corporations. You would all be amazed or maybe not about the amount of Information Private companies and the government has in terms of the websites that you access, the products that you buy, where you their very moment. And it is very clear to me that Public Policy has not caught up with the explosion of technology. So yes, we have to work with Silicon Valley to make sure that we do not allow isis to transmit but in terms of lone wolves, the threat how would you deal with it . What we have got to do there is among other things, as i was just saying, have Silicon Valley help us to make sure that information transmitted through the internet and other ways by isis is in fact discovered, but i do believe we can do that without violating the constitutional and privacy rights of the American People. We have to go we have to go to a break, and when we come back, were going to get to some of the burning questions these candidates want to answer and that were here to talk about. And welcome back to charleston as we were going to a break, secretary clinton, i cut you off. Ill give you 30 seconds to respond on the issue of lone wolves. Can i get 30 seconds too . [ laughter ] [ applause ] secretary clinton. Well, i wanted to say, and ill do it quickly, i was very pleased that leaders of president Obamas Administration went out to Silicon Valley last week and began exactly this conversation about what we can do, consistent with privacy and security. We need better intelligence cooperation, we need to be sure that they were getting the best intelligence that we can from friends and allies around the world. And then, weve got to recognize our first line of defense against lone wolf attacks is among muslim americans. And it is not only shameful, it is dangerous for the kinds of comments youre hearing from the republican side. We need to be reaching out and unifying our country against terrorist attacks and lone wolves, and working with muslim americans. Andrea has a followup. Just a quick followup andrea, when can i get my 30 seconds . Just a moment, governor. Secretary clinton, you said that the leaders from the Intelligence Community went to Silicon Valley, they were flatly turned down. They got nowhere. That is not what ive heard. Let me leave it at that. I need to talk about Homeland Security and preparedness. Ever since the attacks of september 11th 30 seconds. Ever since the attacks of september 11th, my colleagues democratic and republican mayors, democratic and republican governors, made me their lead over Homeland Security and preparedness. Here in the homeland, unlike combatting isil abroad, its like your bodys immune system, its able to protect your body against bad bugs, not necessarily because of numbers but its better connected. The fusion centers. The biosurveillance systems, better prepared first responders, but theres another front in this battle, and it is this. Thats the political front, and if donald trump wants to start a registry in our country of people by faith, he can start with me. And i will sign up as one who is total lly opposed to his fascis appeals that wants to vilify american muslims. That can do more damage to our democracy than anything. Thats time, and we do have to move on. Secretary clinton, this is the first time cab i just get a very brief response, very brief. 30 seconds, senator. One, and i agree with what the secretary said and what governor omalley said. But heres an issue that we also should talk about. We have a 600 billion military budget. It is a budget larger than the next eight countries. Unfortunately, much of that budget continues to fight the old cold war with the soviet union. Very little of that budget, less than 10 actually goes into fighting isis and international terrorism. We need to be thinking hard about making fundamental changes in the priorities of the defense department. All right. Secretary clinton. This is the first time that a spouse of a former president could be elected president. You have said that president clinton would advise you on economic issues. But be specification if you can. Are you talking about a Kitchen Table role on economics . Or will he have a real policy role . Well, itll start at the Kitchen Table, well see how it goes from there. And i [ laughter ] [ applause ] im going to have the very best advisers that i can possibly have. And when it comes to the economy, and what was accomplished under my husbands leadership in the 90s, especially when it came to raising incomes for everybody and lifting more people out of poverty than any time in recent history, you bet, im going to ask for his ideas, im going ask for his advice, and im going to use him as a goodwill emissary s to go around the country to find the best ideas weve got. Because i do believe as he said, everything thats wrong with america has been solved somewhere in america. We just have to do more of it, and we have to reach out, especially into poor communities, and communities of color, to give more people their own chance to get ahead. Senator sanders, 30 second response, sir. Great ideas, governor omally, secretary clinton. But heres the truth. If you have an administration stacked with wall street appointees, it aint going to accomplish very much. Heres a promise that i make, and i mentioned a moment ago how corrupt the system is, Goldman Sachs paying a 5 billion fine, gives this country, in recent history, a republican secretary of treasury, a democratic secretary of treasury. Heres a promise, if elected president , Goldman Sachs is not going to have bring forth a secretary of treasury for a sanders administration. Senator sanders, let me ask you a question, you called bill clintons past transgressions, quote, totally, totally, totally disgraceful, and unacceptable. Senator, do you regret saying that . I was asked a question you know, one of the things, andrea and that question annoys me. I cannot walk down the street, secretary clinton knows this, without being told how much i have to attack secretary clinton. Want to get me on the front pages of the paper, make some vicious attack. I have avoided doing that. Trying to run an issueoriented campaign. [ applause ] i was asked a question you didnt have to answer it that way though, why did you . Then if i dont answer it, thats another front page. Yes, and i mean this seriously, you know that. Weve been through this. Yes, his behavior was deplorable. Have i ever once said a word about that issue . No, i have not. Im going to debate secretary clinton, governor omalley on the issues facing the American People, not bill clintons personal behavior. [ applause ] we will take a break. We will continue from charleston right after this. Right after this. I dont know if youve ever taken the time to learn a little tiny bit of somebody elses native tongue . That opens up the doors to trust. My name is kanyon. Im a technician here in portland oregon. Every morning, i give each one of my customers a call to give them a closer eta. And when i called this customer, i discovered that he was deaf. Then i thought of amanda. Ive known American Sign Language since i was about 8 years old. Its like music for your eyes. And i thought that was an amazing gift to have, to be able to communicate with the deaf. My friend kanyon asked me to help him explain how todays appointment will go. He was nodding his head and giggling a little bit. I earned his trust that day, i guess. When agerelated macular have degeneration, amd we came up with a plan to help reduce my risk of progression. And everywhere i look. Im reminded to stick to my plan. Including Preservision Areds 2. My doctor said Preservision Areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula that the National Eye Institute recommends to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd. After 15 years of clinical studies. Preservision areds 2. Because my eyes are everything. If you think theres no solution to think again. Crisis, in america, clean energy is already producing enough power for 18 million homes, reducing our dependence on foreign oil and supporting over one million jobs. Im tom steyer. With bold leadership and an Endless Supply of wind and sun, we can do even more. The goal is 50 clean energy by 2030. So, what are we waiting for . Welcome back, everybody. Finally before we go tonight, we sat out here to understand points and differences between you. We believe weve learned a lot here. Before we leave, is there anything you wanted to say tonight that you havent gotten a chance to say. And well start with governor omalley. [ applause ] [ laughter ] didnt see that coming, did you. Were going to have to get 20 minutes to do it. Look, i believe there are many issues, 60 seconds for this. 60 seconds. Wed appreciate it. There are so many issues that we havent been able to discuss here. We have not fully discussed immigration reform, and the deplorable number of detention immigrant detention camps that our nations now maintaining. We havent discussed the shameful treatment that the people of puerto rico, our fellow americans, are being treated with by these hedge funds that are working them over. We havent discussed the fact that in our own hemisphere, we have the danger of nationstate failures because of drug traffickers in honduras and guatemala and el salvador. I guess the bottom line is this. Look, we are a great people when we act at home and abroad. Based on the beliefs that unite us. Our belief in the dignity of every person. Our belief in our own common good. There is no challenge that is too great for to us overcome, provided we bring forward in these divided times new leadership that can heal our divides here at home and bring our principles into alignment abroad. Were on the threshold of a new era of American Progress and i believe we have only need to join forces together and cross that threshold into a new era of american prosperity. And thats time. Thanks a lot. Secretary clinton. Lester, i spent a lot of time last week being outraged by whats happening in flint, michigan, and i think every single american should be outraged. Weve had a city in the United States of america where the population, which is poor in many ways, and majority africanamerican, has been drinking and bathing in leadcontaminated water. And the governor of that state acted as though he didnt really care. He had requests for help that he basically stonewalled. Ill tell you what, if the kids in a rich suburb of detroit had been drinking contaminated water and being bathed in it, there would have been action. So i sent my top Campaign Aide down there to talk to the mayor of flint to see what i could do to help. And i issued a statement about what we needed to do, and then i went on a tv show, and i said it was outrageous that the governor hadnt acted and within two hours he had. And thats fine. I want to be a president that takes care of the big problems and the problems that are affecting the people of our country every day. Thank you. Senator sanders. Secretary clinton was right, and what i did, which i think was also right, is demanded the resignation of the governor. A man who acts that irresponsibly should not stay in power. Now, we are a great nation. And weve heard a lot of great ideas here tonight. But lets be honest and lets be truthful. Very little is going to be done to transform our economy and to create the kind of middle class we need unless we end a corrupt Campaign Finance system which is undermining american democracy. We have got to get rid of super pacs. We have got to get rid of citizens united. [ applause ] and what we have got to do is create a Political Revolution which revitalizes american democracy which brings millions of young people and working people into the political process. To say loudly and clearly that the government of the United States of america belongs to all of us, and not just a handful of wealthy campaign contributors. All right. Well, thank you. And thanks to all of you for being here tonight. Shedding light on some of the differences as americans get ready to vote. I also want to thank the Congressional Black Caucus institute and certainly my friend and colleague Andrea Mitchell. This has been great. Its been a great, spirited conversation, and American People appreciate it. Let me turn it over to my friend czech todd now, chuck . Lester, thank you. And a terrific job moderating this debate tonight. Andrea as well. What a lively, substantive debate. We thought there were going to be fireworks, there certainly were. You heard sort of the sharp disagreements when it comes to guns, when it comes to wall street reform. When it comes to health care. And even a few things on Foreign Policy. Were going to break all of it down here in a few minutes, but were going to try to sneak in a short break. And when we come back, instant analysis, well see if we can find out what the campaigns are doing. Were live here in the spin room in charleston, South Carolina. M doing. Were live here in the spin room in charleston, South Carolina. Song thats life song thats life song thats life song thats life thats life. You diet. You exercise. And if you still need help lowering your blood sugar. This is jardiance. 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Tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if you have any medical conditions. So talk to your doctor, and for details, visit jardiance. Com. My son and i used to watch the red carpet shows on tv now, im walking them. Life is unpredictable one thing i need to be predictable is to be flake free. Because i have used head and shoulders for 20 years. Used regularly, it removes up to 100 of flakes keeping you protected every week, every month, every year you ready ma . Always life is unpredictable, so embrace it head and shoulders. Live flake free for life welcome back to charleston, South Carolina. We just finished up the fourth democratic debate of the cycle. The last one before democrats start going to the polls in iowa and New Hampshire. Im joined here by Eugene Robinson of the washington post, a South Carolina native. I think this debates going to be known as the Bernie Sanders debate. It was all focused on Bernie Sanders, really. What he has said in the past what he hasnt said in the past what hes done, did he criticize president obama at one point, did he not, what is his record on guns, what are his proposals on health care. There are were very lively questions between the two. Normally youd say, boy this debate was all about Bernie Sanders, theyd say, oh, geez, what about us . I get the sense theyre okay with that. They kind of want to see how he holds up in the spotlight. Yeah, and you know, she is a very good counterpuncher. And so it was very much her counterpunching against the sanders thesis, basically, that what we need is revolutionary change. Shes not about revolutionary change, shes about evolutionary change, incremental change. Sometimes we talk about people wrapping themselves in the flag. Hillary clinton was wrapping herself in president obama tonight. We were looking at, instance after instance where its like, i plan on building upon what president obama did, doddfrank, it was health care. It was clearly designed to say, Bernie Sanders, hes not wrapping himself in obama. Absolutely. And theres such a historical resonance here, of course because eight years ago the South Carolina primary between obama and clinton was perhaps the nastiest of all. And the bitterness with which they clashed at that point is in stark contrast, to say the least, with the way she embraced obama as a person, as a leader, embraced all his policies, said, we cant do what Bernie Sanders wants to do on health care because we have to continue the Affordable Care act. We shall see. I have a feeling this is just the beginning of whats going to be a lively final 15 days before the voting. Well have continuing live analysis of tonights debate on msnbc. Com. If you missed part of this debate you can see it again starting right now on msnbc. Right now im chuck todd in charlest charleston, South Carolina. For lester holt and Andrea Mitchell, we say good night. Good evening from charleston, South Carolina, im chuck todd. It was the debate weve been waiting for, the one that lived up to the hype on the democratic side. It seemed to be all about Bernie Sanders tonight. Tonight in his final debate with the Iowa Caucuses just about two weeks from now, Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders and Martin Omalley took the stage here at the Gaillard Center in charleston. They engaged in some heated exchanges on health care, guns in america and wall streets influence in this election. Im being joined in the spin room in this hour by Eugene Robinson, a pulitzer prizewinning columnist for the washington post