You cant have the same car as me [ male announcer ] now everyones going to want one. Lets get a jetta. [ male announcer ] volkswagen springtoberfest is here and theres no better time to get a jetta. Thats the power of german engineering. Right now lease one of four volkswagen models for under 200 a month. Visit vwdealer. Com today. Over 11 1 2 years after the war in afghanistan began, are we any closer to peace . It is monday, march 11th, and this is now. Joining me today, Rick Hertzberg of the new yorker, former National SecurityCouncil Spokesman and cofounder and partner of fen way strategies, making his debut on American Television after being released from the shackles of the white house. Tommy vetour is here, assistant managing editor at fortune, lee gag gere is with us and retired u. S. Army captain and author, wes moore. As chuck hagel returns to the u. S. Following his First Official visit to afghanistan, americas forever war still show no sign of ending. An afghan official opened fire this morning, killing two u. S. Soldiers in eastern afghanistan. The taliban is claiming responsibility for the attack. Although hagels trip was intended to underscore a responsible transition of forces, his trip highlighted chaos and deep uncertainty as he arrived in, on saturday in kabul, two suicide bombs rocked the country, killing 19. The taliban claimed responsibility for ate tack in a nationally televised speech the next day, afghan President Hamid karzai accused the u. S. And the taliban of conspiring together to destabilize the country. Saying yesterdays bombings in the name of the taliban were aimed at serving the foreigners and supporting the presence of the foreigners in afghanistan and keeping them in afghanistan by intimidating us. Needless to say the turmoil in the region is not the only National Security issue on president obamas plate. On friday, the white house went through with its decision to try osama bin ladens soninlaw, abu gaith, on american soil, rather than in a military tribunal in guantanamo. Reuniting the debate over civilian versus military courts. Unlike when mayor bloomberg objected to the trial of Khalid Sheikh mohammed in new york city, the powers that be seem to be on board. Last week bloomberg voiced his support for the trial, saying quote i dont want to make the president s job any more difficult. Indeed, the president is not letting past defeats get in his way on more than one front. The Washington Post is now reporting that susan rice is the frontrunner to be president obamas National Security adviser, a position that does not require senate confirmation. While president obama may not be able to control the chaos abr d abroad, it looks like hes making progress on National Security at home. Its all teed up for you and your debut on the show, tommy vetour. Lets talk about security in afghanistan. Something we dont talk about enough in American Media in terms of confidence and Building Confidence that when we pull out of the country, when forces are drawn down, its going to be any, its going to be in any way stable. Let alone better off. I think the activities and the action and the violence weve seen in the last weekend are real cause for concern here. Well, yes. Afghanistan is still a war zone. Its still a violent place and it will be for some time. We have a plan in place to transition to full Afghan Security lead by the end of 2014 and theyre executing on that. To get us there we built up an afghan force of 352,000 troops that will take ownership for their own security and were moving through a set of issues to begin the transition. Now you know, violence will occur, these horrible glean on blue incidents are going to continue to occur. As a nation we need to know that and be ready for it. Ha do you make of karzai coming out and saying that the u. S. Is colluding with the taliban. In terms of having a regional actor in place who is going to at least if not advance american interests, have some amount of a positive diplomatic relationship with us, that wouldnt seem to bode very well. These comments are outrageous. And theyre completely inaccurate and absurd. And if i were a u. S. Service member in kabul or helmand province, i would be offended. We didnt go to afghanistan for hamid karzai. I think whats happening here is their whole set of sovereignty issues, including the transfer of aid to a detention facility, to the afghans that he is upset about because its not necessarily going his way and he lashes out. So for all of karzais weaknesses, hes actually a very good afghan politician and he you know, uses the u. S. For a foil from time to time. Its infuriating. Wes, as a former serviceman. We tog about the legacy of these wars and i will point out the cost, the war, 470 billion spent. Nearly 2100 americans killed, 18,000 americans wounded. Dexter filkens writes in the new yorker last summer, but i dont think the situation has changed, the war in afghanistan haas come to this, the u. S. Is leaving, mission not accomplished. By the end of 2014 when the last americans are due to stop fighting, the taliban will not be defeated. A westernstyle democracy will not be in place. The economy will not be selfsustaining and its a good bet in some remote valley, even al qaeda will be carrying on. Ha do you make of that . And first, its not like the costs are even going to end once the conflict ends. The va just put out a report saying they estimate around 20 veterans a day commit suicide. Even when the fighting ends for the people overseas fighting, the war just begins for a lot of them when they come back home. In addition to that, it does come down to and this is a very important point about, who is the partner were working with on this the only people to come out faster to condemn president karzais comments were the taliban who came out and said these are ridiculous comments, were not courting the americans. So karzai is ending up having two very difficult positions. One theyve got elections coming up, where president karzai will not be the president of afghanistan going forward. And the second is you cannot come up with a larger Afghan National consensus, that does not involve a lot of disparity sections to include the taliban thats going to have some say at the table and hes never been able to reconcile that or spread out his influence. And the problem is the people left holding the bag have been the coalition forces, much of which have been the american soldiers, sailors and marines, fighting. Thats the problem, this is american blood and treasure thats being expended on war that people by and large do not agree with they want us out of there. The question is what does the president do and who does he listen to. On some level, can you even win on the Foreign Policy front . Do you not have to look at this as a political issue. The Washington Post, Foreign Policy had a pretty sharp assessment of how president obamas Foreign Policy has been developed lately. Which is to say, the president had a truly disturbing habit of funneling major Foreign Policy decisions through a small kabul of relatively inexperienced white house advisers whose turf was strictly politics. Their primary concern was how any action in afghanistan or in the middle east would play on the nightly news or which talking point it would give the republicans. Well, you make a very good point. This is a highly, highly delicate time and the new yorker today points out that if chuck hagels confirmation had not been so drawn out, his trip first trip there, which is a major test for him, might not have coincided with Hamid Karzais public anger fit. Which is an interesting thing to think about. Theres no doubt this is going to be complicated and with us for a long time. Its tricky. But you know, the president now has, he has chuck hagel. Well see ha happens with susan rice. I mean he is going to be surrounding himself with a close counsel of people who know what theyre doing. Rick, i guess the question is, does he need, does he need a measurably different Foreign Policy strategy on afghanistan . There is at this point so little public support for getting engaged any further, staying any longer. Does this not need to just be a political decision at this point . Probably so. I mean this, you begin to wonder when our country is going to learn that is a mugs game to go and try to run afghanistan. You know, the british learned it, the russians learned it, now weve learned it. The countries that are closest to afghanistan, like china and india, they know well enough to keep out. Theres no good way out of this. And i think that the president has reconciled himself to that. And getting out is one way or the other, is a priority. And its not going to be pretty, no matter what he does. And that increasingly seems to be sort of the position. Which is things are not, the president wrote in and i want to pivot a little bit, to the question of guantanamo and civilian versus military tribunals. The president wrote in with this idea that you know, we would have more transparency, we would have you know, the executive privilege, we would not see an expansion of executive privilege over National Security or executive power over National Security concerns. Tommy, what weve seen is a president thats had to deal with reality. A war thats messy. It has no sort of end point. He has to create one, if artificially. I think we need to talk about gitmo. The likelihood of gitmo closing, basically its not going to happen. What is the alternative to that . I think the fact that he was, is trying osama bin ladens soninlaw in civilian court in new york city, is a big deal. And probably one that he hasnt got enough credit in terms of moving forward on that. Really quickly on afghanistan to the article you were mentioning, our goal and our strategy and our objective is not to destroy every last vestige of the taliban, nor is it to fix afghans economy, its to destroy al qaedas Senior Leadership and weve done an extraordinary amount of work towards that goal. I want to make sure we rightsize our objectives in the reason to gitmo, i totally agree with you that congress has put up every possible obstacle to prevent guantanamo from closing, its bizarre, because this wassen issue that people basically agreed on before we got into office and it became politicized and the republicans decided this guy is good on Foreign Policy and so lets make his flank these detention issues, weve got guys that have been sitting in a prison for a decade. And we drop him in the Southern District of new york where theres great precedent and judges who know how to deal with these cases and hell likely see a long, long prison sentence. If you look at the efficacy of military tribunals versus civilian courts. New york courts have convicted alleged terrorists at a 100 success rate. Less than 1 of alleged terrorists have been tried at the military courts in guantanamo. Gitmo exists as a tool for radicalization for folks abroad. It highlights the larger impression of president obamas legacy when it comes to Foreign Policy. I mean when you think about the fairness, the last time that a democrat has had an advantage on the Foreign Policy angle has been harry truman. I mean were talking decades have gone on. That you have not seen, youve not seen a con ssensus where th American People will trust a president over Foreign Policy issues. When you think of what the president s intentions are. By the end of his term, hell have ended not one, but two wars. In addition to that, have not gotten the u. S. Into any new wars and then still will arguably leave with a higher impression on Foreign Policy and dealing on Foreign Policy than republican predecessors, its pretty amazing. Its interesting, you have rand paul on the floor of the u. S. Senate railing against u. S. Detention policy. But the fact that is that that is where one wing, a powerful wing of the Republican Party is headed. In the context of where theyve been on National Security would seem to be a major departure. I will say part of the reason the administration, and i would love to know your thoughts on this, tommy, the administration seems to have stepped up the drone strikes, because at the end of the day, given how congress has tied the president s hand on getting folks back here, getting them to court. The drone strikes are an easier option in some ways, i will read an excerpt from politico. It says Congress Needs to untie the hands of the president and allow him to close guantanamo as a first step. In addition congress should roll back the provisions that constrain detainee transfers inside and outside afghan, with fewer restrictions on his ability to assess the feasibility of capture with clear eyes and an aim toward the collecting the vital intelligence that can be obtained only through the interrogation of live detainees. Thats the question. Thats not right. Yes, we do need to change some of the Things Congress has done with its higher hands. But we evaluate i keep saying we, i no longer work there, the administration wraek tbreak the shackles. On a casebycase basis. And people sit in a room and say what is the feasibility of capture. They debate these things with vigor. When youre operating 87 miles from the capital of yemen. Where the Yemeni Security forces dont go, theres not a lot of feasibility of capture. Youd have to put boots on the ground. The legal question, the New York Times had a very indepth analysis this weekend about the legal justifications for killing anwar al alacki and there is Collateral Damage. People that go down in these targeted drone raids. The question is to what degree is that legal any more. To what degree is that not sort of taking an executive privilege and expanding it beyond your actual, the Constitutional Rights . Right. I mean well, on the legal question, the domestic foundation for all our alm. Congress passed a law that allowed us to take action. Internationally the Legal Foundation is our inherit right of selfdefense, especially in countries unwilling or unable to do it themselves. I feel like the administrations counterterrorism policies has firm legal footing. Whats important for people to understand is people at the white house dont sit around in a room and say hey can we kill this guy legally, yes, all right, lets go. Its not policy. I dont think theres a suggestion that people are sitting around in a white house saying hey, can we kill this guy. Rand paul suggested can we kill a mom at a cafe who is a noncombatant. The debate got out of whack. I think theres a concern that were taking the route thats the quickest and perhaps most quoteunquote effective and perhaps not the one that provides us with the best intelligence or constitutionally the most prude ent. Fair. When you step back and look at where these people operate, these are, the issue here is tierry of distance, these people are operating at some of the most remote and dangerous places on the planet. When you have a drone that can orbit for 12 hours and have eyes on the target the whole time and make sure there are no women and children in the area, and then take an action, you know, that is an option that you can use to limit Collateral Damage and make sure that innocents arent hurt. Its not necessarily feasible to send someone into a really remote place in yemen and capture somebody, its very difficult. The feasibility of the brave new world. I dont think weve caught up to the technology in any sort of moral or perhaps constitutional sense. But we have to take a break on that light note. A pathway to citizenship . A Guest Worker Program and of course, the thorny issue of republican support. We will discuss the pieces in play on comprehensive Immigration Reform next on now. 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