Ago. Its just a ridiculous side show. Subterfuge. Benghazi, benghazi, benghazi. Benghazi. Benghazi. The republicans want to make it a political issue. This is a scandal without a center. How many more taxpayer dollars are we going to spend try to prove a political point . Benghazi. Benghazi. President obama this afternoon had his hands full with the fullblown International Crisis. Hosting german chancellor Angela Merkel at the white house to discuss a major escalation in ukraine. Today saw the heaviest fighting in that country since a prorussian uprising a month ago with at least 31 killed during clashes between prorussian demonstrators and Ukrainian Government supporters. But if you are a republican in congress, the crisis is not in ukraine. No, the crisis at hand is the administrations response to the 2012 attack in benghazi. Today, we witnessed a fullblown outbreak of benghazi fever. This morning, the chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee darrell issa, a man who has made quite a name for himself in the world of scandal mongering. Subpoenaed the secretary of state john kerry because, because of benghazi. Documents released this week and specifically one email in particular have unleashed a wave of hysteria about a 2yearold controversy. A twoyearold controversy that, by the way, the department of defense has already spent, in their estimate, thousands of man hours and millions of dollars investigating. And as far as hearings, oh, america, there have been hearings. Weve produced tens of thousands of documents. Weve done nine hearings. 46 briefings. Everything weve seen come out in these document released and on the hill have underscored the exact same set of fact. How many more taxpayer dollars are we going to spend trying to prove a political point that in 18 months they havent been able to prove . But why let a colossal waste of time and money and resources stop you . After all, this is darrell issa, a man who loves to waste all of those things. If you listen to issas crowd, the gop open season has begun. We now have the smoking document. We have a major, major scandal. We have lies that are perpetuated by this white house. In his letter today calling on the secretary of state to appear before his committee on may 21st, congressman issa warned, quote, compliance with a subpoena for documents is not a game. But games or at least partisan hijinks are exactly what the committees ranking democrat, congressman elijah cumming, sees happening here. Less than an hour later, he called issas action, shockingly disrespectful to the secretary of state. But it is unclear at this point whether conservatives can even hear those kinds of allegations, because minutes after issas subpoena, House Speaker john pain, who himself called on kerry to testify about benghazi yesterday, Speaker Boehner announced the house of representatives will now form a special select committee on, wait for it, benghazi, led by this man, South Carolina congressman trey gowdy, a representative who has displayed singular tenacity on everything from immigration to the irs. Proof, as if you needed it, that for republican, benghazi, benghazi, benghazi will be agenda item number one heading into the fall terms. And just maybe in the big election that comes right after them. What did Hillary Clinton direct . What did she want . What was her communication with the president . Implicated in what did she know, when did she know it. On her watch. Joining me now is new york magazines jonathan shade and Political Editor at the Huffington Post sam stein. I think at this point they need to say benghazi, Hillary Clinton, benghazi, Hillary Clinton, for maybe the next two years. Can they keep it going . I didnt think they could keep it going this long. They did. What strikes me you wrote today, john boehner, lets talk about the select committee. This seems to be like the most exciting thing that happened in conservative circles possibly in years, that boehner decided to let his freak flag fly and authorize this select committee on benghazi, no less that Michele Bachmann expressed her joy over this. Because apparently the nearly 50 hearings have not uncovered yet the truth. Its like one notch more respectable than birtherism. Its like the Michele Bachmanns of the world who are embarrassed to be birthers but not embarrassed enough over this. John boehner knew it would be freak time, you know, 24 7 once he let this select committee get started. Now its like he cant hold back the tide anymore. So on with the show. Because of an email that outlines the administration would like to convey the u. S. Is doing everything we can to protect our people and families. The second, to underscore these protests, something the cia initially suggested, and to show the administration will bring these people to justice. The thing is is theres nothing there. Its the same information. Its just indignation that information had not been earlier releasing releasinged. One is, did the administration cover something up. The second is, what happened with our intelligence . And the third is, have we made the changes to security to make sure this doesnt happen again. The manipulation of the talking points is sort of the least significant. And yet that has gotten 95 of the focus in this entire controversy. Did the Political Office of the white house manipulate these talking points to benefit the president s Election Campaign . The Republican Party could be Holding Hearings on what the status of security is but we dont hear about it. Its not sexy. Its not not sexy, sam, its not part does not further advance republican candidates in the election. The timing of this is suspicious in that obamacare is sort of seating as an issue for political ulgs at this juncture. It does seem a little convenient and maybe coincidental, i dont know, that this pops up at this moment in time. Right. Thats a point that dave weekle made. The aca numbers, you know, 8 Million People enrolled. Its not the apocalypse republicans predicted it would be. The Republican Party abhors a vacuum. So what to fill that with . Benghazi. Theres also something that the most passionate people in one party are always convinced is going to be what brings down the president. Theres always something, saying, why arent you covering this . But they never really got congress to hold hearings on these various conspiracy theories. This one made it all the way to the top. There are many reasons i think for people who are perhaps nonpartisan or looking at this through a reasonable lens to be indignant. One thing that doesnt get discussed is, you know, the things that our secretary of state should perhaps be focusing on instead of benghazi. We have an International Crisis blooming. We have Many International crises blooming. Theres horrible stuff happening in syria. Theres a nuclear package were trying to put together and then of course theres ukraine. It is comedic that issa has called kerry to the hill to testify. Saying this is not a game. The secretary of state will be abroad conducting foreign business, something he should be doing. But they will make this into a sort of political witchhunt and ask why the secretary of state isnt there when of course he should be tending to more important matters. Yeah, and more than one democrat has pointed out to me today that back in 2007, when democrats in the house were trying to get Condoleezza Rice to testify about the intelligence failures in the leadup to the iraq war, that none other than darrell issa, now speaker john boehner, were warning she had bigger things going on, that she shouldnt have to be halled bach in front of congress, this was a distraction from more weighty international issues. I get your point. You know, its a circus. And i do think that its worthwhile to continue to production documents in some respect. But, again, i go back to my original focus, there are two major components that have realworld implications and were not talking about either of them. I will actually read issas quote from 2007 when he said the inappropriateness of hauling the secretary of state out of the performance of her job is what we are objecting to. I think thats not even a bit of irony. I think its like a 17 layer cake of irony. These are things party always switch sides on. Oh, theyre way too important. Do you think theres an analogue on the left for darrell issa . This man has like we were going to make tshirts. Because this man has been so singularly fixated on a midlevel irs employee and in the process wasted tens of thousands of man hours and made the job of the irs that much more difficult. There are people like issa on the left but most of them are Walking Around with sandwich boards around Major College campuses. But on taxpayer dollars, look, theyve got enough money in congress. It keeps them off the streets. It keeps them from throwing reporters off balconies. So, you know. I want to make the point that, like jonathan says, investigates are important. And, you know, i was grateful in some respects that these committees looked into such things as the irs scandal and, for instance, benghazi, and they prou duesed a lot of information. The key question is at what point do the investigations become excessive . I want to see all this stuff out there, its part of my profession. But there is a point to be made that its overkill. The point is is when are you wasting your time on past things versus how much are you building on constructive Properties Going Forward . You could be looking into embarrassed security and what we need to do there. Yes, and at the same point, i think the issue were taking is not that theyre having hearings and investigating things. I think oversight is a good thing. Weve learned our 501 c4 contributions. Ive yet to see one piece of reform issas investigations have brought to light or instituted. It is a great thing we needed to learn. Your point is they need to act on those things and they havent yet and i agree with that. Benghazi, benghazi, benghazi, Hillary Clinton. Thats what well be hearing for quite some five it is great to see you in person. Oh, a handshake. I really like that. Sam, you can join us on set next time. Its always great to see you, my friend. After the break, after w, is the bush crown tarnished . Ill talk about jebs 2016 prospects and what it all means for a guy named Chris Christie. music defiance is in our bones. Defiance never grows old. Citracal maximum. Calcium citrate plus d. Highly soluble, easily absorbed. Ameriprise asked people a simple question in retirement, will you outlive your money . Uhhh. No, that cant happen. Thats the thing, you dont know how long it has to last. Everyone has retirement questions. So ameriprise created the exclusive. Confident retirement approach. Now you and your ameripise advisor can get the real answers you need. Well, knowing gives you confidence. Start building your confident retirement today. Female announcer sleep trains interest free ends sunday. Its your last chance to get three years interestfree financing on beautyrest black, stearns foster, serta icomfort; even tempurpedic. Plus, get free delivery, and sleep trains 100day low price guarantee. But hurry sleep trains interest free for 3 event, ends sunday. Sleep train your ticket to a better nights sleep a fraught decision. Those are the words of a major republican donor faced with the prospect of having to choose between backing jeb bush or Chris Christie for president in 2016. Or as former new jersey governor Christine Todd whitman put it in the same New York Times piece, it would be awkward, it would be very awkward. Well, voters have literally years to decide who theyll pick at the ballot box. The staggering cost of primary politics means that major donors have to decide start deciding very soon where they will place their bets. Will those bush rangers and pioneers stay loyal to the first family of republican parties or will they cast their lot with the embattled new jersey governor . The younger of the the two former president s bush is weighing in. I hope jeb runs, former president george w. Bush said in an interview this week, adding that hes cheeking his core. Jeb may be doing his own gut check or core check but the American People seem pretty much over the whole political dynasty thing. A new nbc wall street journal poll out this week finds 69 of country agree with Barbara Bushs now famous statement that more than two or three families should run for high office in america. Can anybody from outside those two or three families even begin to summon the money and machine necessary to win . Joining me now is times editor at large and senior political analyst Mark Halperin and senior political reporter at the New York Times, nick canfostori. You coauthored this latest bit of codonors in the New York Times. How much teeth nashing is really going on among moderate establishment republican donors at this point . I think a whole lot, alex. Theres a whole invisible primary at this point. I know it sounds absurdly early. But these guys are all lining up now and deciding. It takes hundreds and hundreds of these people to put together the finance side of an important campaign. I think they feel really torn. They have strong ties to the bush family. They have served in some cases on two or three president ial campaigns for the whole family. Chris christie was the rising star. They call him the next generation guy. Hes now embattled. They have this choice now that is very hard for them. The question among those who are watching jeb bush and Chris Christie as potential nome in s nominees is at least in some corners who has the least amount of baggage. I keep going back to this quote. He says hes sticking by Chris Christie and by way of an explanation offered this. What a field day the media guys would have. Ready for another bush. Ready for another afghanistan. Ready for another iraq. Ready for another collapse of the Banking System . That is a lot of baggage. Why dont you tell us what you really think about the bush years. As a spouse of one of the other potential candidates bill clinton likes to say, there are no perfect candidates. Jeb bush has a lot of falls. Listed some things that could be a problem. I think nicks piece is excellent. A snapshot of where peoples helds are right now. My suspicion is, based on talking to a lot of donors, is if jeb bush decides to go all in and run, a lot of them will be with him. And so many may be with him that i could see governor christie passing for other reasons as well. He may decide to be on the bush bandwagon because theres one sentence job description. Who can beat Hillary Clinton. Chris christie has a lot of strengths still. Theres no doubt, though, that jeb bush can build a battle ship that can go up against Hillary Clintons battle ship. I think a lot of donors as the establishment tends to do will go with the safer pick, the one theyve known for generations. Weve talked about this before, part of the reason Chris Christie is where he is today is because he was a big fundraiser for george w. Bush. Yeah, its really ironic turn of events. He and his adviser and his brother todd were all, i believe, pioneers and rangers themselves. And it was their fundraising and their efforts on behalf of bush that gave them the entree that in return gave them christie as a potential top prosecutor. In a sense, it launched his career. In a second sense it could snuff out his president ial ambitions in the same stroke. Mark, you know, theres been a lot of discussion in recent weeks about this book and weve been talking about it for many weeks. One of the things that the 2016 race seems to prove is his contention that one of the problems with American Society is its reliance on inherited wealth and dynamic politics. If we look at who were talking about here, jeb bush and Hillary Clinton, do we think thats an issue for the american voter, this issue that barbara bush first seized on, that more than two or three families should be guiding the country forward . A time when the country is still looking for fundamental change, what says fundamental change more than a bush clinton general election . The reality is both of them are where they are because of their family ties. On the other hand, theyre extraordinarily talented individuals. Almost without question in my view, based on a lot of reporting, theyre almost without question not only the strongest general election candidates either side has, but in the view of their supporters and broadly within party, theyd be the strongest president. So you got to treat them as individuals as well. Ill say again there are no perfect candidates. It would be better for the country. I agree with barbara bush, it would be better if we werent turning to this family again. Im not the first to say this, but they both would benefit if the other one was the nominee because it would take this issue of legacy and heredity off the table. They got to jump in together Holding Hands into the deep end effectively. Thats right. What about hillary for a moment. Tina brown had an oped, i guess you could call it, an opinion piece, urging her not to run and enjoy the perks of sort of post president ial life whic