Brian Williams examines the days top political stories and current politicalcampaign news. Our colleague Kristen Welker there is still a steep hurdle to an interview with robert mueller. It would, quote, raise significant article ii questions going to the heart of president ial authority. Its not just about this president but about the presidency. Meanwhile, Rudy Giuliani spokes with axios. They report, quote, there are two topics the president s lawyers want to rule out in order to agree to a trump sitdown with mueller. One, why trump fired fbi director james comey. Two, what trump said to comey about the investigation of former National Security adviser michael flynn. Tonight, bloomberg has also spoken to giuliani and also reports that those two topics are off limits. According to bloomberg, giuliani said, quote, if asked the president would tell the Special Counsel that he didnt urge comey to stop Investigating Flynn and Didnt Fire Comey to cut off his investigation into russian interference in the 2016 campaign but the president s personal lawyer said trumps
room back in april. For months, as you may know, an independent lawyer, a socalled Special Master who happens to be a former federal judge, reviewed all the seized boxes of documents and files to decide what should be offlimits in the investigation. Her review is now complete, which means its now up to prosecutors to decide whether they will bring charges. Its a lot to get to. So we will with our leadoff panel on a thursday night. Mimi roca is back with us, former Assistant Civil Attorney for the Southern District of new york. Lisa larabek, National Politics reporter for the associated press. Michael crowley returns as well, National Security editor and Senior Foreign Affairs correspondent for politico. Lisa, i dont want to put you in a bad spot, because you dont do commentary, you do straight on news. But is there any reason to believe this is anything but political side showing . We emphasize to our audience,
were hearing 50 of the argument on a sitdown with mueller. Muellers Side Doesnt Talk and muellers side doesnt leak. Right. Lawyers are generally not out debate their clients legal strategy in public which leads one to believe this is not so much a legal strategy as a pr strategy. Our reporting has told us that the president s lawyers are not eager for him to testify. But theres also concern from some in the white house that if he appears unwilling to speak to mueller, that could look like he has something to hide. That might not that could be politically lethal, in a way. So part of the strategy here is to keep this back and forth going, to make it look like there is a negotiation. Whether there is one or not. And most importantly, that the president is willing to sit down for this interview, particularly ahead of the midterms. Mimi, one of the guests last night hadnt thought of the president in these terms. The president got a paycheck from this company and this building for 14 years. Investigation. Can you pause some aspects of it . You just dont want to do something overt. He can keep doing lots of stuff, its not like theyre going to close up shop come september 1st. Giuliani is creating this deadline, september 1st, september 1st. If people buy into that, because who knows about this doj guidance, most people dont, and how it works, its very factbased and nuanced, then come september 1st, if Mueller Doesnt Wrap it up, giuliani can say hes blown the deadline. He makes mueller look bad by creating this false reality. Michael crowley, any reason to believe the giuliani strategy is anything other than these three words, delay, distract, and discredit . I dont think so, brian. Think about Rudy Giulianis recent history. Where is the track record of this guy being a Master Strategist . He was mayor of new york city,
lot of this, he may find it comical that giuliani is setting these deadlines and issuing what are in Effect Demands and orders. I just think mueller is doing what hes doing on his own time frame, has a huge amount of information at his disposal, is really the guy in charge here. And theres something you know i could be completely wrong in the way this turns out, but from where i sit right now, theres something almost a little satirical, rudy raging at the dying of the light here, and i just dont think theres much to it. Lisa, no judgment here because a number of us are, but the president is cable addicted. Having established that, what are the kind of unique pressures . Here he is on vacation, playing golf, as far as we can tell, every day, although our lenses are kept far, far away from his golf course. What are the pressures he is seeing and feeling . Hes certainly seeing a lot of coverage of the manafort trial, which has not been particularly flattering either
for manafort or rick gates or the campaign. Hes seeing Whats Going On with his former personal lawyer Michael Cohen and how the pressure is racheting up over there. And hes feeling the pressure of the midterms. While he claimed a number of victories in the midterms this week, that Special Election in ohio was awfully, awfully close. We still dont have a conclusive winner. Thats a district that trump won by 11, it should not have been that close. Hes feeling a number of legal and political pressures. But i think what his team is seeing thats making them feel like their strategy may be working, is the polling numbers. Theyre seeing that the longer they as you put it, the longer they delay, the more disapproval of mueller and the investigation seems to rise. But as you pointed out at the beginning of the show, were only hearing 50 of the story. So while those numbers have been moving a certain way, The Big Question is what happens once the public starts hearing the other half of the story, do we
indictment, either one, really, depending on what his actions were exactly. Probably the hacking one, or a separate indictment with other u. S. Citizens, possibly. It all seems possible to me right now. And its not that the longer mueller goes on, you know, hes scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to find something. I think hes going on because he keeps uncovering more and more evidence. Ive wanted for months to see whatever whiteboard they have in his office. Yes. Hey, michael, part of your lifes work has been studying and writing about foreign affairs. And so here we have russia. Remembering this is all about russias interference in our election. Sanctions just put in place against russia. They called it unfriendly. Just a quick reminder, with true north as our guide, how weird is the u. S. russia relationship as of right now . Its bizarre. I cant think, brian, of another example where you had so much
distance between the commander in chief and his seniormost advisers on the subject matter. So in this case, the distance between trump and his top National Security officials on how the United States should be approaching russia. Trump wants to befriend russia. Trump wants to reset relations, in effect. He seems to basically trust vladimir putin. And then there is this whole apparatus around him that is ensuring that we dont do any of those things, that we harden our resolve against russia, that we continue to impose sanctions. Secretary of state mike pompeo, who some people have depicted as a bit of a yes man, who basically wants to please trump, he came out and issued a statement saying the u. S. Would never recognize Russian Annexation Of Crimea until it is reserv reversed, and that is not the position that trump has held, hes left the door open. Pompeo has been tough on this
subject. And republicans in congress who have deferred to trump on all kinds of other issues are mad at hell, for the most part, with notable exceptions, some of the senators who traveled to moscow. Its bizarre, brian, ive never seen a divide on this level in our government. Just thought i would ask. Our thanks to all three of you, really appreciate it. Coming up for us, as we approach our first break, its something you dont hear often in a federal courtroom. What the judge had to say after a Feisty Exchange with prosecutors. There have been a few. And later, President Trump has said it a lot, he only hires the best people. However, the list of Trump Associates with legal problems just keeps getting longer. Ill get it out. The 11th hour just getting under way on a thursday night. Lets get started. Show of hands. Who wants customizable Options Chains . Ones that make it fast and easy to analyze and take action . How about some of the lowest options fees . Are you raising your hand . Good then its time for power e trade the platform, price and service that gives you the edge you need. Alright one quick game of rock, paper, scissors. 1, 2, 3, go. E trade. The original place to invest online. Whoooo. Tripadvisor makes finding your perfect hotel. Relaxing. Just enter your destination and dates. Tripadvisor searches over 200 Booking Sites to find the hotel you want for the lowest price. Dates. Deals. Done tripadvisor. It is such a good time to dance it is such a good time to [ laughing ] scoobidoo Doobidoo Scoobidoo doobidoo [ Goose Honking ] [ laughing ] a bad day on the road still beats a good one off it. Progressive helps keep you out there. The first survivor of alzis out there. Ase and the Alzheimers Association is going to make it happen. But we wont get there without you. Join the fight with the Alzheimers Association. Irs witness should have been allowed to testify after having been allowed to be in court, judge t. S. Elliott told the jury, quote, it appears i may well have been wrong. He went on to say, this Robe Doesnt Make Me anything other than human. I sometimes make mistakes. Paul manafort, a reminder, facing Bank Tax Fraud charges, charges he denies. This is his first trial as a result of the investigation by muellers office. With us tonight to talk about it, were so pleased to have Chuck Rosenberg back, former u. S. Attorney for the Eastern District of attorney, who has spent his fair share of time in that very courtroom where the trial is being held. He also happens to be a former senior official with the fbi. And Eric Tuck Certificate back with us, Justice Department reporter for the associated press. He was in court for todays proceedings. Chuck, ive thought of you so ma many times because, in plain english, you were u. S. Attorney
where this trial is taking part. Youve had your fair share of time to watch this judge. What do you make of all of it . Ive heard straight down the middle reporters say kind of straight up that he has been prejudicial, he has clearly and provably been tougher on the prosecution. You know, brian, ive seen him be tough on the prosecution. Ive seen him be tough on defense counsel. But there i think is a better way to do it, right . I mean, if a judge has something she needs to say to counsel, defense or prosecution, she can call them to the bench. She can excuse the jury. She can even yell at us, that happens too. But it should be done in private, because judges have so much authority in their courtroom. And the jury listens carefully to what they say. The concern i have is if hes angry at one side or the other, even if hes right, the fact that he yells at them, berates them, castigates them in front of the jury can tip the scales and the judge has to be so careful never to do that. I was going to say, chuck,
ive covered my share of proceedings in federal and state courts. And so often have seen a judge say, counsel approach the bench, and kind of covers the microphone and has a little bit of a sidebar discussion. And thats happened to me too. I told a story earlier today where i accidentally, and it wasnt a crime against humanity, came back from lunch with a piece of chewing gum in my mouth and a federal judge in the Eastern District of virginia handed me a tissue, after asking me to come to the bench, and we discreetly took care of the problem. He didnt do it in front of the jury. These judges have to be so careful. The government has no appeal. For the defendant, its a matter of liberty or even life. The notion that you would put a finger on the scale, even accidentally im so glad we finally have something on you. Its really unfair that the judge goes by t. S. , but its ellis, not elliott. That one is on me, i apologize. What do you make of the room, of the dynamic, and the reporters who have been saying today that hes unmistakably tough on the prosecution, do they have it about right . No question, brian, it was an extraordinary moment for everyone coming into the courtroom this morning for the judge to basically tell the jury to put out of their minds something that he in fact had said yesterday and to offer a semi apology. The one thing that i think we should definitely not lose sight of, though, is what precipitated this, which is actually a Government Request last night and early this morning where they said to the judge, respectfully, your honor, if you review the transcript, you actually permitted this witness to be in the courtroom, you are correcti incorrect and as a matter of fact we would actually like for you to alert the jury that
youre mistaken. And thats really unusual. And one could read this one document, this one filing from the government, as actually sort of a broader request of the judge to say, there are many things that the judge has said that hopefully in the governments mind, the government would like to see undone or unwound. And chuck, something you just said has me going back to this, especially if youre in your line of work, if youve ever been on jury duty, if youve ever watched the trial, the judge is really your conduit,s almost your Father Figure during the proceedings. He turns and addresses members of the jury. Hes your gobetween. You often see a trial in his or her lens. And so it is critical, i would love to be able to watch the jurors as they visually relate to this judge. Thats right. And look, for most people
serving on a jury, its probably the only time, brian, theyve ever had that experience. They dont know what courtrooms are like, they dont know what prosecutors or Defense Attorneys are like. They certainly dont know what judge ellis is like. So what he says goes. I mean, not just as a matter of law but as a matter of fact. And if hes mad at the prosecutor, for instance, then maybe they are too. And so thats why a judge has to be so very careful. Remember, both sides are entitled to a fair trial, not just one, but both sides are entitled to a fair trial. I think judges that remain cognizant of that throughout the proceedings are really doing both sides a favor. Look, i like judge ellis. Hes a very smart judge. But sometimes he ought to just call balls and strikes and not try and play all nine positions on the field as well. And a civics reminder for all our viewers, federal judges have an awesome responsibility. Its why they have to be nominated by the president , approved by the senate, and then
they are seated for life. Eric, one final note. Otherwise, prosecution had a very good day . Yes. So i would say that today got really back to the meat and potatoes part of this trial. We really saw the Building Blocks of the fraud, the Bank Fraud Allegations that make up a significant portion of this indictment. Youll remember, brian, that obviously the last several days have been focused on rather salacious allegations. Theres been discussions of Extramarital Affairs involving rick gates, who is the governments star witness. He had a fairly challenging crossexamination. Today there was none of that. This really got to the core of the governments case, and prosecutors really i think made some significant inroads in being able to establish that when Paul Manafort applied repeatedly for mortgages, for loans on his new york properties, he made what appeared to be false statements and in one instance, for instance, he alleged that this property was Owner Occupied when
in fact they found it being listed as a rental. And so right away, manafort had an issue. So yes, i would say today was a fairly good day for the government. We are thankful for two of the very best guests to explain all of this as the man afor trial churns on. Gentlemen, thank you both. Coming up for us, with a couple of this weeks elections yet to be decided, republicans look to november. But do they all see the same thing about now . When The 11th Hour continues. With the new Chase Ink Business unlimited card i get unlimited 1. 5 cash back. Its so simple, i dont even have to think about it. So i think about mouthfeel. Introducing Chase Ink Business unlimited with unlimited 1. 5 cash back on every purchase. You always get the lowest price on our rooms, guaranteed . Lets say it in a really low voice. Carl . Lowest price, guaranteed. Just stick with badda book. Badda boom. Book now at choicehotels. Com crisp leaves of lettuce. Freshly made dress