Though, hes raised the stakes for action. And as you say, the question for Something Like that when it comes to leadership, with the amount of power in that office, is not how well executed the event was, which makes it action makes it real, and no action is not good. Tonight we have a lot to get to, including a special interview, building on that discussion in gun control. And my remarks later tonight on why we might be, might be living through Something Different right now on action on gun reform and gun violence, a very important miss piece of a large story. Also our lead story tonight is this Major Development in bob muellers probe, and its blowing up one of the very last defenses the white house was using to distance donald trump from Paul Manafort and its all about timing. Nbc news is reporting that Paul Manafort may have been trying to sell jobs in the Trump White House weeks before donald trump was taking office. One of the trump teams strongest dove strong est defenses against manafort was about the calendar. Those things that were in the indictment were things that Paul Manafort did years before the trump campaign. Todays announcement has nothing to do with the president , has nothing to do with the president s campaign or campaign activity. Nothing to do with the campaign or campaign activity. That excuse goes us the window with this new story. And it comes also tonight as news breaks on rachel brand, the doj official next in line that would have taken over the Mueller Probe. Shes talking about why shes stepping down, i have more on that as well. But did Paul Manafort try to trade his part in the Trump White House to make money. He wanted millions in return. The banker a man named steven cox didnt end up getting a job in the white house. Manafort gets a 900 milli 900 home. Now muellers trying to figure out if those loans were part of a deal, a quid pro quo between manafort and the banker. And if this was a scheme, was anyone else in on it and if anyone else was in on it, was it the Trump White House. I know were always bringing you something new in the Mueller Probe. A source tells nbc news that at least one of those Bank Employees felt pressure into doing those deals and is now cooperating with mueller. And neither the white house, the banker or manaforts spokesman are talking to us about these new details. All of this and the new angle of investigation when it comes to muellers team has just filed a new document in the case against manafort and gates, they could be new charges in whats called a superceding indictment. And since its sealed, we dont know what its in it, it could be something else. We do know this, mueller is getting closer to mana fort and manafort is let me go to randall elison. And the fellow at the alliance for justice. Randall, you look at all the news i just ran through, what feels like new and extra heat, what does it tell you about muellers probe and is it fair to say its escalating . It certainly seems like hes trying to turn up the heat on manafort, these new charges could relate to additional charges against manafort, and possibly even misconduct by the banker in getting the loans, whether or not anybody else in the white house was involved. So it sounds like hes trying to turn up the heat on manafort, if gates is proved to be guilty, that will escalate that pressure as well. Its kind of a classic white collar progression, you get people and then move up the chain. And critical moments of the 2016 campaign is a good time to the other piece of this as we all know, if your bodyguard needs a bodyguard, things are getting heavy. If your lawyer needs a lawyer, which sometimes happens, things are going down. And when lawyers are pleading guilty as one just did this week, a lots going down. But take a listen to someone whos in the know, some colorful trump character, sam noneberg who was on the show last night. Hes also worried based on what he knows about trumps long time lawyer michael cohen. I worry about michael, im not going to say michaels going to lie, michael got screwed the most i ever saw of anyone by donald trump. And what i worry about is what michaels going to say when hes called in by somebody like andrew weisman. When you see that and how mueller is approaching lawyers and false statements of obstruction, do you think there are any lawyers involved in this probe that have to be concerned . I think everybody involved has to be concerned. Mueller has sent a very strong message that everyone will have their feet held to the fire. The indictment or the information yesterday filed against alex vanderswan demonstrated that mueller will go after lawyers and will go after them regardless of how small the violation may appear. He wants people to tell the truth. So i think that message is very clear. Any lawyers who are involved in this are going to have to testify truthfully, or there will be consequences. And william, you recently wrote something that got a lot of attention in legal circles. You said trump likely fits the u. S. Attorney manual definition of a target, a person against whom theres substantial evidence linking him or her to a crime and is a p the question is whether, first of all, whether trump will submit to an interview, i think its fairly clear he will not submit to a voluntary interview. The question is then whether mueller should ask the grand jury to subpoena trump. You dont think he will . He had claimed publicly he would, bill clinton did, why wouldnt trump . I think he may. I think he has to carefully weigh the cost and benefits of going after trump. Trump will fight a subpoena. It will end up in protracted litigation, i expect. And its not clear how much mueller is going to get out of trump at this point. Trump can go into the grand jury and he can have amnesia, he can assert privileges, and he can lie. But you know whats interesting is that i think there was sort of this frenzy that developed around the notion that people wanted to see a muellertrump faceoff. The grand jury process is secret. So the only person that would be in that session who can talk about it would be trump. And i have no doubt that trump would come out and announce, assuming the press found out about it that he had just given spectacular grand jury testimony. And people said it was the best grand jury testimony they had ever heard. As we say in court, i feel you on that. The flip side is that that was supposed to be the case with the clintonstarr system when it was finally arranged. It was videotaped to stay private but through ken starrs maneuveri maneuverings, it did go public. Randall, one more legal thing and then well widen it out to our panel. Rachel brand got a lot of attention for leaving the doj, she would have been next to replace mueller. She says i never had any reason to think the Mueller Probe would come to me and even if it had, it has nothing to do with why i left the department. She goes on to say, basically that theres nothing to see here. Of course her opinion is fine. Shes welcome to it. The notion that theres no way the Mueller Probe would go to her strikes me as an odd claim for her to make given that donald trump said that he didnt have confidence in mueller or rosenstein and shes the next one up. I dont think we should have any reason to not take her for her word. Her statement speaks for itself. Im not impugning her, shes got her opinion. But shes stating that she had no reason to think this Mueller Probe wouldnt land on her death, isnt that a silly thing for her to say, a harvard educated lawyer, when obviously the guy in the position was getting hated on by the president. I wouldnt want to characterize it that way, shes on the inside and she probably knows a lot of things that most of us dont so i would hesitate to characterize her statement at all. I dont know whether shes trying to weasel her way out of there, so i imagine shes going to make more money that she ever would at the department of justice. And its a pretty thankless job that shes in right now. I dont think her leaving says anything about anything at this point in time. But the president cant weasel his way away from whats happening, hes clearly in some way connected, his friends are to the nefarious things that are happening and he cant just keep saying its not me, its not me, theres no collusion. He is still saying that and its harder and harder for people to believe hill. It might be that she had extreme confidence in this investigation. The fact that some came forward and said the fact that mueller is investigating appropriately, these russian nationals were meddling in the election and aggressively pursuing justice, makes it hard for the president to go and fire him or rosenstein or anyone else because theyre doing their job. This probe kind of goes back and forth between the meddling and the money trail, the manafort money trail. Manafort sits in the middle of those two things, so as this investigation continues, how can he connect the dots . The president has tweeted 20 times since the indictment last week about russia. What do you think about the president saying, why didnt obama stop the interference . I thought immediately that Vice President joe biden cagaven interview that had we known what russia was doing in 2014, we would have raised the red flags and said more than we did. I am wondering what he knew in january to 17. The people who did know more were in the obama white house. They blinked. They didnt take this on in a big way, we dont know exactly why they blinked, maybe they thought that the overall reaction would have been worse, maybe they thought that people inside the campaign, they thought clinton was winning anyway. But thats not a good reason on security grounds to blink. 2017, a lot of people didnt know what they should have done. 2016, a lot of people didnt do what they should have done. And what do we do to make sure that doesnt happen again . And the president should be leading and hes not. And that wleeleads to a questio that we all should be talking about. Instead of saying you know what . This is horrible and heres what were going to do to make up for the fact that the people before we did nothing. And bottom line, the likelihood, the percentage that donald trump does sit for the interview. I dont think hell sit for a voluntary interview, i think theres no chance of that. No chance, randall . I think its really unlikely at this point. Which is fascinating because you guys have been close to the action, given how much volume on the idea that the interview would be happening. Thanks to each of you. Later in the hour, ill be joined by another legal eagle. The former acting solicitor general, he wrote the rules governing the special counsel. And then to something so important, these students surviving the shooting coming to the white house with an Emotional Message for President Trump. I dont understand why i can still go in the store and buy a weapon of war, an ar. Tonight im going to speak to a politician with a very powerful and difficult personal story, a man who took on the nra and won, that was after his girlfriend was murdered on live television. Were also going to look at how these student protests connect to some new political movements. Right now Cecile Richards live with me on the beat. One of us can be dismissed, two of us can be ignored, but together we are a movement and we are unstoppable. And as if that wasnt enough, im happy to tell you later in the show, we also have a little chris rock and what he says george w. Bush did that was good for obama as well as the future of trumpism. Im ari melber, youre watching the beat on msnbc. Flonase allergy relief is different. Flonase relieves sneezing, itchy, watery eyes and a runny nose, plus nasal congestion, which pills dont. Flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. Most pills only block one. And 6 is greater than 1. Start your day with flonase for more complete allergy relief. Flonase. This changes everything. Today, the new new york is sparking innovation. You see it in the Southern Tier with companies that are developing powerful batteries that make everything from cell phones to rail cars more efficient. Which helps improve every aspect of advanced rail technology. All with support from a highlyeducated workforce and vocational job training. Across new york state, were building the new new york. To grow your business with us in new york state, visit esd. Ny. Gov. This new day looks nothing like yesterday. Trails are covered. Paths arent what they used to be. Roads nowhere to be found. and its exactly what youre looking for. if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis,ing for. Little things can be a big deal. Thats why theres otezla. Otezla is not an injection or a cream. Its a pill that treats psoriasis differently. With otezla, 75 clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months,. With reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. And the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. Dont use if youre allergic to otezla. Otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. Tell your doctor if these occur. Otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. Tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. Some people taking otezla reported weight loss. Your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. Other side effects include upper respiratory tract infection and headache. Tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if youre pregnant or planning to be. Otezla. Show more of you. Maybe its different this time, maybe it has to be. Or maybe as we were just witnessing in this breaking story, they are going to make it different. Im talking about these students and families who have survived the mass murder at Parkland High School which took 17 innocent lives and who you can see in this portrait of two stories are continuing their grief sticken organizing tonight demanding gun control, while other families were addressing President Trump just in the last hour at the white house, a session that included something unusual in the donald trump era, a president listening to people, a president who even if only for a moment, against a backdrop of his own overwhelming support from the nra, a president who at least said he wanted to bring people together to address this problem. It was an emotional conversation survivors sharing their stories and challenging the nras donald trump to do something. I was on the second floor in that building. Texting my mom, texting my dad. Texting three of my brothers. That i was never going to see them again. Woke up to the news that my best friend was gone. And i dont understand why i can still go in a store and buy a weapon of war, an ar. Those families speaking at the white house were impacted by a range of Mass Shootings from sandy hook, from columbine and this latest in parkland, florida and it included andrew pollock whose daughter was murdered there last week. 9 11 happened once, and they fixed everything. How many schools, how many children have to get shot . It should have been one School Shooting and we should have fixed it. And im pissed, because my daughter, im not going to see again. Mr. Pollack is right about that history, you know, after september 11, there was major policy change and we saw those victims families as a key voice for reform. Congressional leaders did not address them by saying it was too early to work on the problem or it was, quote, only a time to grieve, as were sometimes told. Now as for the reality down in florida, legislators there just halted a debate on a bill to ban assault rifles rebuffing those parkland students and parents. My next guest is an advocate for gun control, Virginia House member chris gilchrist, his girlfriend was tragically murdered in 2015, it was a horrific incident because it was captured on live tv, the shooter using a 9 millimeter pistol and then turning it on himself. An nrabacked candidate that was just three months ago and he joins me now. Thank you for being here tonight. Thank you for having me, ari. What are you thinking when you see this type of incident playing out one more time yet again. And what do you bring to it as someone whos clearly devoting, i believe your career right now to being part of reform . Im thinking as many others have been thinking in the past few days that something really is different this time around, and it is because of the unique voices from the students, from Stoneman Douglas high school, they are doing something that i think our society often telling you not to do when you go through grief in general, which is to cower in a corner and be alone and retreat. And instead, they have decided to advance, and that was something we encountered in our own situation, allisons parents were very vocal from the beginning saying enough is enough and something must be done to try and reduce the scourge of gun violence across the country, they were admonished and criticized for that, and i was on the sideline watching parents get it was a fight for them as it will be a fight for these students from parkland, florida, but i do believe that because they are so passionate and articulate and yet visceral in their emotion and still in their grief, i think this is really going to carry a lot of weight moving forward. Youve mentioned what were hearing, as you say searing, grief stricken accounts mixed with activism, mixed with politics, because its all about what people want, a political class, a Political Leadership to do. To that end, let me play some of what were hearing today. Im not trying to take away your Second Amendment rights nor am i trying to eliminate all guns, but we cannot protect our guns before we protect our children. We lose confidence in our government because we are told that nothing can be done time and time again and we are tired of hearing that because we know there can be change in this country. We will not be discouraged. We will not falter, we will not stop this movement. Should you continue to choose your wallets over our lives, i pray you enjoy retirement. Because we will vote you out. As someone whos charted a similar pa