The days biggest political and news stories, with interviews and reporting from around the nation. Donald trump saying bob mueller has a conflict of interest. Whats he referring to . A dispute i imagine he disclosed it to rosenstein when he appointed him because it involved something last year wasnt settled to this day. Thats up to the president and mueller to describe. Whats the conflict . I cant tell you. Are you saying the business Conflict Mueller and President Trump had, is that about his golf course. Im not going to go any further. Hes not going further on that. There were some specifics when guiliani talked about other alleged meetings before the trump tower meeting. The meeting with the russians, how can you be sure that the president didnt know before. Its he said she said. Nobody can be sure of anything. In a situation like this you have two things that argue against cohen. Twoonone sorry, three
like an independent contradictions. He says there was a meeting with donald junior with Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort and deatgates possibly two others out of the presence of the president , discussed the russians. We checked with their lawyers, the ones we could check with, four of the six, that meeting never ever took place. Didnt happen, a figment of his imagination or is lying. Lets deal with the figments clearly. Guiliani says the only reason he brought up this other meeting he says did not happen, that he wanted to get out in front of a leak. Ruddy is saying michaels big secret evidence, if he has it, is actually nothing. You can think of this attack that is an argument, Michael Cohen is like geraldo but going to open this famous vault and the vault is actually empty, no
meeting. Guilianis right, if Michael Cohens big vault of evidence doesnt have anything in it that will deal with the probe, well see. Michael cohen and lanny davis are not geraldo, theyre not standing in front of a vault. This whole thing is weird why were reaching for weird references. How do you accuse someone going full geraldo, promising a vault, in this case, a meeting, when they havent done it and theres no vault. I begin with this absurd line of questioning. Member of the New York TimesEditorial Review Board and Wall Street Journal and former top aide to Hillary Clinton and ceo of the center for american progress. Shelby, let me start with you. What does it mean when Rudy Guiliani says Michael Cohen might come forward in front of this vault but the vault is empty and yet were at a period in this debate Michael Cohen havent done that. There is a lot of ways to
that as a pretty big bombshell in and of itself yeah. A fact we should be deeply anxious about the legitimacy of this president. Thats up on your screen, you see this news screen and see guiliani says colluding with russia is not a crime. Thats a bad thing, whether colluding with russia or iran or whomever, thats a bad thing now being sold as not a crime. We have done reporting on this show and i think folks are aware depending what the collusion entails it can be a crime because an International Conspiracy to get a thing of value or impact an election is criminal activity, it depends who knew what where or when. As experienced as you are of the campaign of media where these things play out, lets look why guiliani says he is the first mover bringing up the premeeting geraldo same thing. Take a listen. Why do i mention it . Because first of all, i thought it was going to come out. Second, my experience is when you have stuff like this floating around it comes out. I dont want it to come out and be unrebutted when it originally comes out. Got it. Part of what were trying to do here, the jury for this case is the american public. Neera, given youre disclosed as an opponent to him, he seems to be telling the truth there how he views this and his motivations. Absolutely. Look, throughout this whole Long National nightmare of this investigation where the president has seemingly lied regularly, whats obvious is that the Trump Legal Team is their foremost goal is indict the prosecution and drive opposition to the prosecution, make it impossible for republicans to act because its seen through a partisan lens,
and its almost as if they concede on some level that theyre guilty and their goal is just to make it impossible for a jury to convict. Like in a normal trial, what this would be seen as trying to tamper with the jury pool. I think in some way that is what guiliani is confessing to, trying to throw up as much mud as possible so American People are confused with whatever mueller comes out with. Lets be candid, do you that when youre guilty, not when youre innocent. You know, im struck by something rudy said. He said nobody can be sure of anything. I think, you know, it sounds almost putinesque. Like are we even here right now, man . Is this happening . Is there truth or is there truth . Maybe were still in class and this is a dream. Exactly. Youre right. Thats a putin talking point. A very good point. Thats very nefarious. Rudy guiliani and the president , too, they have a long history of, you know, using New York City tabloids to do the same thing. You fight for you fight in the public arena. So what you cant do in the courtroom, you try and do, you know, in the court of public opinion. I think this is the case where they seem very worried about what will happen in the courtroom. About the real stuff. Thats right. They cant control that, right . Theyre doing what they do best, throw a pr blitz and sew enough doubt if not the American People, their base, to prevent the political fallout. Theres a Legal Process here. When you talk about Something Like impeachment for example, thats a political process, not a legal one. They are laser focused on that. One more thing while i have mara, i want you to take a listen to anthony scaramucci, a pretty loyal trump aide but goes
possible for not directly lying and says that puts him closer and how we got here and there is a freakout tonight puts him closer to advance knowledge of a potential conspiracy. Were at a point now every person in America Needs to decide for himself or herself, are you going to believe whats in front of your eyes or are you going to see things through partisanship or tribalism in some neverneverland. I think unfortunately thats where weve come to. We dont know what the outcome of the Mueller Investigation is yet. Thats fine, let that process play out. We dont. We do have other reporting and indictments taken place so far we dont need to believe the president when he calls this a witch hunt. We know thats not the case. Lets just stick to the facts. One other thing antetokounmpoant
because they love donald trump, even if youre inclined to give the benefit of the down, that was 2016, they were inexperienced, yatta yatta. 2018, not so inexperienced, has the full benefit of the National Security apparatus and continues to go in, in an inperson public forum with the president of russia known to be a killer and have Human Rights Abuses by the Justice Department and continue to take that side over the u. S. , how does one look at this and say, its a conspiracy theory, theres no support for it, it seems to be going on actively before our eyes. Absolutely. Lets point out, if donald trump did act improperly with the russians, obviously, Vladamir Putin would know that. The weird thing about this whole situation is trump behaves that way. He behaves as if the russians
have information on him. Every political advisory in the world would say, go have a meeting with putin and act tough with putin. Defend americas interests. He attacks all our allies yet almost cowers in front of putin. To americans living their lives, that behavior was inexplicable except for the notion putin has something on him, or there is something to the story. He really did prove, in a sense, give evidence in peoples minds to believing the whole array of illegal acts in front of us. Right. Listening to you, i feel more informed but i dont feel better. Nothing nothing is part of this will make you feel better ever . Its informational but not
cathardic. Three experts tonight. Coming up, trump may ease sanctions of a putin ollie guard. Former ambassador Michael Mcfaul is here. And tampering with that infamous audiotape, whats up with that. We are 99 days from these pivotal midterms and a look how key Women Candidates and voters are. I will talk to two candidates whose victories could give victory back. And the judge talking about her workout and how long she may be on the bench. Not so cute when theyre angry. And we covered it. Talk to farmers. We know a thing or two because weve seen a thing or two. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum when you combine ancestrys with its Historical Records. You could learn youre from ireland donegal, ireland and your ancestor was a fisherman. With blue eyes. Just like you. Begin your journey at ancestry. Com
yep, thanks guys. I think he might need some support. Yes start them off right. With the School Supplies they need at low prices all summer long. Save 200 on this dell laptop at office depot officemax. Of dollars in hopes of a good return. This was one of the first examples of Paul Manafort using offshore accounts we found, a practice that would later get him in trouble. Trouble indeed. Now is the moment for the Trump Administration to float sanctions relief for him. Those original april sanctions mandated by congress Made DeripaskaThe Biggest Loser by those sanctions. Im joined by former ambassador Michael Mcfaul a sergeant by putin and he held a meeting at the white house about that issue. Thank you for joining me. If they lift these sanctions, what message does that send . That theyre not serious about changing putins behavior. A series of sanctions is you go after companies and individuals
to put economic pressure on them to pressure their government to change its Foreign Policy behavior. Its a rickshaw thing, a bank shot. Putin hasnt changed his behavior, if anything hes gotten more aggressive as we saw in helsinki, and against me, by the way. It sends a horrible message that the administration doesnt have a strategy for the sanctions they have implemented from the past. You mentioned that and as i said, spoken out about. Why did my president , my commander in chief, my fellow American Call putins scheme about me an incredible offer. What did you get from the white house meeting. Thats pretty over the top language. I didnt know i wrote that. Just kidding. All getting hyperbolic these days. To be accused as a criminal by Vladamir Putin is a pretty
intense moment. I met with many Government Officials last week in the Trump Administration. My message was a clear one. I was happy they finally got to a position where they were rejecting this offer, this generous offer by putin to interrogate me and the other 11 americans. I think thats clear. I want them to reject preemptively the idea they might seek to detain us through the interpol system. What did you think of their response to you . You can ask them that. Im not going to read that out. They asked me not to. I will keep the focus on that. You want to respect the confidential as specific of that that involves National Security issues, get that. You look at how deripaska operates, not that hes a free wheeling businessman but very much an agent or cutout or helper to the putin regime. Let me read in fairness what the Treasury Department is saying for your analysis. The sanctions have caused havoc in the global aluminum market, secretary mnuchin saying our objective is not to put deripaskas company out of business. First of all, they should have thought about that when they put deripaska on the list in the first place. Measuring the Unintended Consequences of sanctions. I participated at many many meetings at the white house with respect to iranian sanctions in that regard. Second, why do we care about the future of that company . Why is it in our National Interests to care about that company. I dont know. Are these rhetorical questions . My answer is we probably dont. If it opens up space in the market. Mnuchin is a free market guy. If it opens up space, so be it. Just to come back to the main point, the purpose of sanctions is to change putins behavior. Putins behavior has not changed. When you lift sanctions before he changes his behavior, that sends a pretty powerful signal youre not serious about wanting him to change his behavior. Ambassador Michael Mcfaul, whos been in the Eye Of The Hurricane often not by choice, thank you for being on tonight. Michael cohen saying the tape may be tampered with, and whats rudy trying to do . A break in just 30 seconds. Tampering. More than likely, he came back home, erased the portion he wanted erased and tried to tape record a conversation, it appears, with don junior and might have gotten that, too, and erased that. Youve spoken to don jr. What is the part that was erased . I have no idea. Does donald trump remember . No. It could be good for donald trump. We have determined the fact he tampered with the tape in the sense that he abruptly, midconversation turned it off. I think they put it out because they wanted the doctored version to obscure whatever else might be on that type, im sure it will be good for us. Im joined. Thank you both for joining us. I dont know persuasive you remember the rapper, j. O. Felony, he was very proud of his felonies. I feel like guiliani is
basically turning this into mike felony and if true turning this into a true crime. This if true would be a big deal and if false, the false accusation of a crime is also a big deal. Rudy is gambling on the facts hes looking for court opinion. Youre right. If there are tapes tampered with and offered into evidence that would be a big deal. Huge. If you have just a Tape Recording on your phone, which is all these tapes cohen has appear to be and you cut it off inadvertently, or even on purpose while taping on your telephone, thats a very different thing than something you testify to in court and audited kate and offer as evidence. I take your nuance, joyce, very important. Youre helping us understand this is probably hyperbolic and
not real tampering. It would be a big deal for them to go out and accuse him of tampering. It absolutely would be. Guiliani is operating on the narrow edge of ethical rules courts expect lawyers to follow. Its surprising to a lot of people the bar has not yet sanctioned him for some of this conduct. As you say, that is where there are real rules that apply to anyone who say theres the Practicing Attorney for the president or anyone else. Then the privileged part important even though rudy talks about it in a sort of loose manner. Take a listen. We have complained to them that hes violating the attorneyclient privilege publicly and privately. Why did you waive the attorneyclient privilege for the cohen tapes. Because if i didnt waive it i wouldnt be able to tell you he cuts it off, which he does,
right after the word check. Explain. Its very confusing. Attorney client privilege is a rule once you let the cat out of the bag you cant put it back in. Once rudy waives privilege theres nothing for cohen to violate in talking about it. Rudy is talking a lot of Word Salad Today and to see what will stick on the walls. This one will not stick and theres no there there. This is the point you dont need to be a lawyer, if your argument is, how dare you take advantage of the things i did privilege is out and it seems like were done there. It is. Word salad is one word and weaponized gas lighting is another word i would use to
describe what the Trump Administration has been doing a long time and what has been happening in the last few days with Rudy Guiliani. He is saying Michael Cohen doctored the tapes. If the Trump Administration wasnt smart enough to issue hush money, i dont think hes smart enough to doctor a tape. You dont imagine him in a basement . I dont know. I have trouble with that image. Like making a second soundcloud. Maybe. What were seeing also is Rudy Guiliani is basically Michael Cohening Michael Cohen. Michael cohen was Donald Trumps lawyer but he didnt do a lot of lawyering. What he did was a lot of trying to kill stories and threaten to kill people who had stories on donald trump. Classic example during the Campaign Ivanka trumps own words had been leaked she felt violated by donald trump and he threatened the lawyer and tried
to kill the story and when he couldnt said it is not a crim