Ill get into that. Then ill talk about mueller is now in active negotiations to testify. We begin the pressure on House Speaker pelosi. House democrats are privately lobbying her to begin impeachment proceedings. This is more credible because it is not posturing. It is reports coming into public view. All of this comes as White House Counsel Don Mcgahn refused to comply with a legal subpoena which is pushing some Top Democrats over the edge. Our subpoenas are not optional. Mr. Mcgahn has a legal obligation to be here for this scheduled appearance. Let me be clear. This committee will hear his testimony even if we have to go to court to secure it. The pro impeachment caucus arre arguing the best way is through an impeachment probe. The Washington Post states at least five member of pelosis Leadership Team pressed her in a closed door meeting, asking to at least let the Judiciary Committee begin impeachment proceedings. Then later in another meeting, jerry nadler, who you just saw at that committee hearing, making the same case. The post noting this marks the first time that the chairman and the top rank and file lawmakers have lobbied pelosi to begin impeaching trump. And over at politico, they report on the members frustration and convenienting about the white house repeated stone walling, blendly you knowing pelosi, start the impeachment process. One source calling it long and emotional of the this is in more than one outlet and it tells us after the private talks, there are more and more democrats. Not just out in the country. Be just out in the debate. This is people that pelosi relies on to keep the caucus together. They are all now pushing her on impeachment. We are seeing it is all out in public. Take a look at Elijah Cummings getting so much closer today. Where do we end up . Im still mulling it over, myself and my colleagues. When we get on the florida in a few minutes. Im getting there. I believe that we have come to the time of impeachment. I think that at a certain point, this is no locker about politics. This is about upholding the rule of law. If don mcgahn doesnt testify, it is time. Dont tell me there is not enough to discuss and debate impeachment. Yes. I would support it. The last person you saw there is tennessee steve cohen who is my guest live now. He is making this case for impeachment in these private meetings with Speaker Pelosi last night. I will note that so far, lets be clear. The speaker is saying democrats are beginning to win some of the procedural fights against the white house including late yesterday when a judges ruling against Donald Trumps firm, ordering them to hand over documents to congress. Pelosi saying they can pursue the strategy. All of this, we can now report, will come to a head, it seems, tomorrow morning at 9 00 a. M. In washington. High drama because Speaker Pelosi will be had you hadding with the entire Democratic Caucus to discuss the state of the investigations and what are increasingly private and public calls to begin an impeachment probe. Im joined now by congressman steve cohen from the Judiciary Committee. I know youre in demand. I appreciate you being on the beat tonight. Good to be with you. What do you see important coming out of those meetings . Do you see more members of your caucus saying, based on what the white house has done, it is time to begin impeachment proceedings . They have the most gary the rule of law and have within their charge, to preserve the constitution. Im the chair of the Sub Committee on it. And he has also a specific reference for the constitution. Can you take us inside those meetings . I know there are aspects youre going to keep for yourself. Theyve spilled into the Washington Post. Our viewers are wondering, what is going on . Is this a real good faith debate . Could you move the speaker . What was going on in those meetings . The Judiciary Committee as a whole is for at least an inquiry of impeachment. I dont think any member, there might have been two members that were particularly close to Speaker Pelosi that were not on board. But i would say, 80, 90 of the committees on board to go forward. Right there, that feels farther than we were recently. Youre saying 90 want to begin impeachment proceedings and theyre pushing on that now . I cant speak for the chair but i know theyre in that position. Most of us are lawyers. We have the constitution in our heart and most of us have probably had more interaction with the Mueller Report and the facts than most of the rest of congress because it has come to us. We wanted to prep for barr and mcgahn. If i ask but that, will you answer me honestly . Always, swear to god. Do you believe the majority of members of congress have read the Mueller Report . No, i dont. Do you think thats an impediment to it . I think it is. If you read the Mueller Report, you will see that the only reason he was not, mueller didnt recommend an indictment for mr. Bad example, the president , was because the Justice Department has a policy that you cannot indict a sitting president. He made it clear that he was going through traditional means and that that was one of them. And therefore, they could not. He couldnt defend himself. He thought fair play would say that it was to defend himself which you do in a court of law or an impeachment hearing. But you dont in a statement from a special counsel cannot be acted upon. He did everything but say the man has committed obstruction of justice. And he is a named conspirator for Michael Cohen actions. When you walk into this meeting tomorrow at 9 00 a. M. , what is Speaker Pelosi going to see . When she looks out on a caucus, it supports her, it reelects her, it has incredible faith in her but appears to increasingly disagree that you should not even start the proceedings. Especially given what youre calling stone walling with chairman nadler is saying defiance. What will she see in this meeting tomorrow morning . Well, 90 , i would say the Judiciary Committee. But they are kind of a special breed. And the whole caucus probably is not there. Shell still see a majority of the people that will follow her lead. And it is difficult to stand up and speak to the speak near meeting and question her positions. It is difficult. It was difficult for me to get up and share a policy. At a certain point, youre elected and you have a certain age. You have a responsibility to speak truth to power and thats your job. Thats what i did. I did feel some other people around me didnt have that. There was another member who did speak out and he is in leadership. I admire him for doing it. You can see, they were jockeying for position. It will be an interesting hearing. Who stands out and speaks up. Well see. I appreciate your candor and you making the time. Congressman steve cohen. Thank you. My next guest is a progressive billionaire. You may have heard of him. Hes been leading the outside effort to peex donald trump since at least 2017. He has a new milliondollar ad Campaign Calling on Democratic Leaders to impeach. A mention for leaders of the Democratic Party. For over two years this president has broken the law and nothing happens. You will us to wait for the mueller investigation. When he showed obstruction of justice nothing happened. Now you tell to us wait for the next election. Really . Really . Really . Is your Campaign Starting to win over people . Well, i think our campaign has represented a huge part of america for a year and a half. We have more than 8 Million People who signed our petition and specifically come out and said, this president has obstructed justice, been corrupt and should be removed from office. Are you winning over the people who have the votes to begin an impeachment inquiry in the house . Well, i think two things are happening. One is, were going directly to the American People because we believe in the power and wisdom of the American People. But i think that the people in the house, the congress people, are watching this president who has clearly obstructed justice and clearly taken payments illegally as president. Theyre now watching him show utter disdain and contempt for them. So his new tactic on obstruction of justice is an absolute defiance of their right to oversee his administration. For their right to perform their duty under the constitution. So theyre very much feeling it personally. This president is trying i can to to have make himself a king. Interesting to hear you put that it way. Youre talking about the actual inaction between the way the white house is, and this is a fact. It sounds like a criticism. Defying more lawful requests of information anywhere in american history. Youre saying, what do they do about that . Wasnt the argument a couple weeks ago, well, lets see, Speaker Pelosi. Lets work through the other channels. Do you think that your argument for an impeachment probe has been strengthened by the fact those other channel are meeting with others . I dont think theres any question. If this president doesnt believe that there is going to be some recompence, he will only get worse. In fact, the idea that they can work through normal channels. He has declared that he will not be sub to regular channels. He is above the lawful he expects to do what he wants and how he wants and he doesnt care what congress has to say about it at any time. And we have been covering this as the top story as many are because it is feeling like a push for impeachment. We just had a member of the Judiciary Committee saying 90 want impeachment. Speaker pelosi, who just got reelected, is now facing this open pressure. I want to both reflect the other views in the Democratic Caucus and bring one on to join you. Before i do that, let me play a very loyal Speaker Pelosi lieutenant pushing back on all of this. Take a look. I disagree the notion that a growing number of the house caucus want to jump straight to impeachment. We recognize that we are a separate and coequal branch of government. We have the check and balance on the executive branch. The caucus wants to proceed methodically in that regard. That is his response. And the top democratic staffer on the house Judiciary Committee during the famed clinton impeachment and he is also warning his fellow democrats to proceed quite carefully. You just heard what he said. Hes been a leader on this. What do you think by being careful . What is the argument for democrats against doing what my guests have said tonight . I think the white house legal strategy of bruxism, and strong arming congress, is more illegal than even the things that were uncovered in the Mueller Report. It certainly makes a legal case for impeachment stronger. To the people argue that impeachment is just a legal question. If the president has broached the line, that it is the dutiful camp who just believe that there is a legal question. If you want that legal question, if hes breached that, you go forward with impeachment. If you go back to the federalist papers, it is designed as not just a legal question but also a political question. The politics are not there yet. I think the legal benefit that you get from opening an inquiry is very, very margial. I think the courts are making it clear they have little patience for the games the white house is playing. You have three audiences. You have the democrats, you have the general public that you must persuade and then you have republicans. Those three different audiences. I think youre basically boiling down to the argument that this would eventually lose so dont start. Im saying the people for impeachment are opening up a process, havent even persuaded their own caucus yet. But what im trying to moderate for you, what is your substantive argument against . They dont have enough public support yet . I think theres not enough public support. I think the democrats are not together. So im not sure where it leads you. We can go pack and forth on that. It is not quite as definitive as i would like. Okay. I feel you on the points youve made. Were not making a legal point. Were making a point with what is right and wrong and what we want to have happen is to bring in the American People directly. To stay American People dont support impeachment enough before theyve had a chance to see the evidence through a series of televised hearings doesnt make any sense. What we need to do is have those hearings. Bring all of those people. Mueller, mcgahn, all of them in front of the American People so we can see how corrupt this president is. How corrupt his administration is. The kind of obstruction that hes engaged in so we the American People can come together across party lines. And be sickened by what this president has done. He is making a little of the rack eye hillel, a utility, if not now, when . I dont think hes making an argument for impeachment. I think he is making the argument for process. That you should have investigate over the hearings. Thats tiff from saying, jumping to impeachment. What im saying is this president has clearly breaches the criteria for being impeached. It is urge end to hold him accountable. If you do not, you are minimalizing his corruption and obstruction you are and paying the your duty to the American People and the constitution of the United States. Thats what im saying of the. And it is very interesting hearing you directly with each other. Some of these discussions are happening privately in the house. I think we benefit from hearing it. It is a tough question, obviously. Thank you to both of you. Coming up, what did Speaker Pelosi say about the first republican to push her on peach . Also, bob muellers testimony and it will be public . And these National Protests about abortion rights. We have an exclusive with a d. A. Who says she will not enforce what she sees as an unconstitutional law limiting choice. Only on the beat. Later tonight. Then donald trump pushing to pardon convicted war criminals. Ill break down why this is a press denial breaking problem for any commander in chief. Youre watching the beat on msnbc. Youre watching the beat on msnbc. 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So pressed about all of this and whether to consider the probe, take a look at what Speaker Pelosi has done of a broad reference to participate tim. Doesnt it put more pressure on that you a conservative republican says the threshold for impeachment has been met . No. No . No. Why . This isnt about politics. It is not about passion. It is not about prejudice. It is not about politics. It is about patriotism. It is about patriotism. But the problem with that talking point would seem to be that those arguing the president violated the constitution and should not get away with it have a rationale for doing something. And it is also they say, called patriotism. To dig into this, i have the politics editor for the root dorkt. And daily beast column iist margaret carlson. Its getting lively. I heard jason last night. I often say, what would jason do . I slightly disagree with him. My heart is with jason. But i believe democrats should go the pelosi route and follow by other means. To continue the investigations. Hope that the courts are still funking despite being packed with mcconnell judges. And as the court did today, rule in favor of subpoenas and witnesses showing up. So that these investigation hearings proceed and they can be tele