For five hours before two committees. Second, he will deliver an opening statement. Thats new. Third, bill barrs d. O. J. Is again stepping in. Something weve been tracking from the start. Barr stressing anything mueller knows which is not in the report should be treated as, quote, presumptively privileged from disclosure. Lets stop right there. Why does that sound a little odd . Well, i think you know why. Bob mueller is the one who ers on the side of not commenting and disclosing. It was mueller who stayed quiet while barr released letters and excerpts which mischaracterized the Mueller Report of about it was released. When barr is demanding less disclosure, it stands out. Of course, it was Barrs Justice Department that flat out purnd muellers top prosecutors not to testify at all. And barr has opined against this weeks hearing knock being it as an unnecessary public spectacle. For all this talk about how wednesdays hearing could end up being a or dry or redo, it does appear that people inside the Trump Administration are still concerned about mueller and his team talking. Because even in his careful style, bob mueller was, in one sense, blunt in his last and only public remarks to date, saying, his probe simply did not allow him to conclude donald trump did not commit a crime. As set forth in the report after that investigation, if we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so. And they didnt say so. Now, that implicit rebuke of trump does not mean that bob mueller is now standing with the president s critics. Far from it. Remember, as a legal matter, when mueller steps in front of the world wednesday, he will be a hostile witness under subpoena. He is prepping to be pressed and to push back. Hes doing indepth briefings, mock sessions to mimic the big event, so hes ready to take on these Committee Chairs who have their own view of what mueller found. We want bob mueller to bring it to life, to talk about whats in that report. The report presents very substantial evidence that the president is guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors. Its a pretty damning set of facts that involve a president ial cal pacampaign in close race welcoming help from as foreign power. He is an unindicted coconspirator. Lets see where we go from there. There are damning facts in the Mueller Report. But some democrats want more than a dry factual presentation. They want to press bob mueller under oath to say in english what the Mueller Report only said in lawyer jargon. That there is substantial evidence against trump, that it comes from his own staff, and that it suggests he committed multiple crimes in office. Let me bring in our experts tonight, Richard Stengel is a top diplomat in the Obama Administration and former manager of time. Caroline dealt with George Papadopoulos and those in the probe directly. And nick, former federal prosecutor. Good evening to each of you. Great panel, if i may say so, on this big event everyone is waiting for, that the administration is apparently uncomfortable with. Nick, what does it mean when the democrats want more from mueller than they will probably get and when bill barr wants lessor nothing from mueller . They dont either side doesnt have to come out on this thing. All they need to bring out are the facts that are in this report. What they need to do is go through the eight instances of obstruction of justice on which bob mueller found a destructive act, corrupt intent and a nexus to a proceeding that trump was trying to obstruct. And then on top of it, they also had the evidence relating to the breakin to the Democratic National committee. Theyve got a statement right in that report that says, but for the fact that the national the two crimes that relate to the theft of property which mueller says, but for the fact that these two crimes only relate to tangible property goods, that he considered using those against people for trafficking in the stolen documents from the Democratic National committee. So they should take that statement, juxtapose it to what trump was doing with respect to wikileaks and what the campaign was doing to wikileaks and also go into the conspiracy relating to the social media where they have evidence from rick gates, the Deputy Campaign manager to the Campaign Manager paul manafort, who basically was instructing gates over a regular period of time throughout the campaign to provide Konstantin Kilimnik with the stalled polling data which was the demographic material that could be used to micro target Hillary Clinton voters and suppress that vote. And your point is thats in the report. It matters whether or not mueller found it to be charge age. And he couldnt find anything chargeable against the president under his analysis, the hearing should really put that before everyone. I want to bring in stengel who is both a longtime journalist and diplomat. As a diplomat, you smooth over im an undiplomatic diplomat achlgt okay, good. As a journalist you look for the gaps. I ask you to look at the diplomacy also known as the spin, and then the real gaps in what im going to read from this new report tonight, that mr. Barr, who represents donald trump who they all said oh, its fine, dry, do over, no big deal. What im hearing now is they have been extensively pressing mueller. They dont want to place muellers team in front of lawyers in the d. O. J. , but reading here from this, they say we want to place lawyers in the room, but theyd have little recourse to prevent mueller from going off script and reveal details of his investigation that the white house considers off limits. That basically because theyre not going to put people in the room to muzzle him, they have been extensively meeting how can they do that . Theyve been meeting with him saying everything that is not in the report proper is presumptively privileged. What is going on here . The d. O. J. Has been 3450meet with mueller beforehand . Theyve been telling his people maybe through intermediaries, theyve been telling him extensively, this is the headline, mueller should limit his testimony of the report. Res ipso loquitur. What they are worried about is bob mueller standing there talking directly to camera, answering questions will bring this alive in a way a 448 page report never can be. Thing that thing that i as a journalist would look for, the absolute nut im not going to do the perry mason thing because you never get a Perry Mason Perry mason para docks. There you go. The question is why didnt mueller indict him. Was it because the president didnt commit a crime . Or because there was the jurisdiction, the office of Legal Counsel guidelines from the Justice Department saying, you cant indict a sitting president . That would be the one question i would want to have clarity on. And the problem is that hes probably just going to say whats exactly in the report which he said in that brief press conference. You say hell never answer that. Never. You dealt with the team, take a look at how hes ducked in the past. Yeah. I hesitate to speculate because i have just a piece of the puzzle also. I would have to check to make certain. In every investigation, particularly a fastmoving investigation, there are steps taken that may or may not workout. Its very difficult to generalize or to reach some sort of understanding or make progress with that generalization. What is mbaps so interestin even in the face of all of this, theyre scared he may go rogue. Theyre scared of that 1 possibility. Bob is a rule follower now. Hes a private citizen now. He doesnt have to listen to the d. O. J. Presumptive privilege isnt a legal thing. Is it not a thing in your view . Its not a thing. Its been well documented there is no blanket privilege. Wait, complete the point. There is an agreement here its not a thing. What is it . The point is theyre really scared of this very minute chance he could be so upset that he would fly in the face of his whole history. Everything that hes ever lived for, which is that he sticks to the books. He sticks to the four corners of the reports and everything that we know about him, that theres a small possibility that, again, he may go off script and give information they think could be damaging. Thats just not going to happen. Right. Then it goes to what the president did today, nick, which is you could say hes always mixed. He says, oh, this guys got conflicts, but take his word for the way ive mischaracterized his findings. But he does appear still concerned about what is going to happen. Its not easy breezy. Take a look. We had no collusion, no obstruction. We had no nothing. We had a total no collusion finding. The phony investigation where the report was written. It said no collusion. There was no obstruction. Robert mueller, i know hes conflicted. Theres a lot of conflicts hes got including the fact his best friend is comey. But hes got conflicts with me, too. Hes got big conflicts with me. He still ruled and i respikt ecm for it. He still ruled no collusion. If you read this report, and you pull out the facts that are there, forget him going rogue. The fact remains, once you put all that evidence out in the obstruction, there was obstruction. Theres no question. The facts speak for themselves. The problem is the public has not had the opportunity to zero in on those facts. And i think thats why the stakes are high even if people feel this is not ideally timed. Donald trump may be onto a political propaganda strategy by trying to make everyone feel this is somehow, quoteunquote, older news. Why are we still talking about that . President trump understands how to appeal to things that may sound like theyre vaguely in the ballpark. The fact there is a methodical process and a subpoena doesnt tell you anything about the underlying facts. I want to do two things. I want to get rick back in. I got everything. You pick out the page you would like to most ask mueller about, that you think is most important. Wait, and you get a minute for your homework of what you would ask. Neal katyal said one good question would be, did you find there was no obstruction . Mueller could say no. If thats what he would say, did you find there was, quote, no collusion . Mueller would say, no. That would be a real evisceration of what barr, his boss, has claimed. By the way, i did not get my memo on the copy of the Mueller Report. I carry this around with me all the time. Im going to mention one pet peeve about a person who has testified before the house before. The problem is each member gets five minutes and each member is thinking probably as much about people back home as he is thinking about the witness. And what happens is instead of going sequentially, trying to figure something out, each person tries to get his own perry mason moment and they come to nothing. Obsessed with perry mason. Yes. Nobody under the age of 50 knows who that is. False. Fact check false . To get mueller to actually Say Something that might be potentially revealing, they have to Work Together to get the questions in a sequential order rather than each one doing his or her own questions five minutes. I have one question while were doing references because caroline has been giving us guidance and youre a very sharp lawyer yourself. You say people know perry mason over 50 . Yes. How about matlock . Yes. Adicus finch . Oh, yes. Id like to direct your attention to 76 which is a section relating to roger stone and the dissemination of the stolen emails from the Democratic National committee. Its a fact, is it not, mr. Mueller if you look at that footnote that your office considered charging people with the theft of stolen property and trafficking in stolen property, is that right . So youre saying, ands this is important. Talk about something that got lost we reported on. Youre talking about they only charged stone for certain things. But youre saying they took very seriously the possibility that people high in the Trump Campaign would have been potentially involved or chargeable for those crimes . They said they considered it. Mr. Mueller, i dont want you to tell me who you considered or how many people you considered, but its a fact, is it not, based on your report, that this was something that you considered at least against one individual in the Trump Campaign. And given that we have a former representative of a trump official, play us out, if you would, the counter argument. Is it the counter argument, republicans on the committee will certainly stick to this, if bob mueller of all people turned everything over, skissed michqu michael cohen, there was a case if he didnt find it . That would be an argument i may make in terms of specific individuals. I think why nick is so right on the money, the questioning needs to be so pointed, youll notice his questions werent openended. So were not going to hear these muellerisms, these double negatives. We did not conclude that he did not commit a crime. And you kind of have to think it over in your mind multiple times. Only leave it open to a skilled crossexamination. You get them to go along with your narrative. You continue talking and its a yes or no question. Yes, boom, no, boom, you get your narrative out there. Thats whats going to be so important. If democrats or republicans, really, if they want to shape whatever narrative theyve got, its not going to be a quotation from bob mueller. Its going to be their quote and him acknowledging yes or no. Which really goes to the question, you have not all seen the story the same way. Ive interviewed you previously so i know that. I think our viewers may know that. Each of you with what could make or break wednesday, do these people who live their lives as politicians find it in their oath of office to stem step back from that and do skillful questioning that informs the public or to quote not quote, but paraphrase, Richard Stengel or are they out there thirst trapping for a perry mason moment . I do think this is im not going to say that name again. This is the moment where they have to become patriots and statesmen and say, we have to educate the public about this. Volume one, you have to educate the public about the fact that we were attacked in a comprehensive way by a foreign adversary. Whether or not the Trump Campaign worked with them or not is almost doesnt matter. And volume two, did the president commit crimes to cover that up even if he was in charge of the first we have to go to a break. If he wasnt the president of the United States. Richard a. K. A. Perry, caroline and Nick Ackerman with the visual aid. Thank you each and ill be coming back to you to get your views on what goes down on wednesday. The reason we have to fit in a break, we have so much more including a fact check of Stephen Miller defending Donald Trumps race baiting. Does donald trump want to enrich himself by putting the g7 at his own golf course. Neal katyal is here to talk about trumps new legal strategy many and i have a live interview with a critic who might challenge trump in the primary. A show to start the week monday fall back with andrew yang and hiphops jermaine dupre. Im ari melber, youre watching the beat on msnbc. T on msnb}รท avo life doesnt give you many second chances. But a subaru can. dad you guys ok . You alright . Wow. avo eyesight with precollision braking. Standard on the subaru ascent. The threerow subaru ascent. Love. Its what makes a subaru a subaru. The way you triumph over adversity. And live your lives. Thats why we redesigned humira. We wanted to make the experience better for you. Now theres less pain immediately following injection. Weve reduced the size of the needle and removed the citrate buffers. And it has the same effectiveness you know and trust. Humira citratefree is here. A little change can make a big difference. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections. 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We run right into these crises, and we do not leave until normalcy is restored. Wed been working for days on a site in a stormdevastated area. A family pulled up. It was a mom and her kids. Everything they had had been washed away. The only thing that brought any kind of solace was the ability to hand her a device so she could call her family and let them know that she was okay. vo there for you when it matters most. And now, get a free Samsung Galaxy s10e when you buy one. Thats verizon. Lets start with the facts. Donald trump wrote the lines that his crowd chanted about sending a u. S. Congresswoman back home and stood by as they then chanted for 13 seconds straight. A fact bedevils trumps top aide. Watch as Stephen Miller says President Trump disagreed we very chant and watch this claim get blown up on fox news. With the send her back chant, the president was clear that he disagreed with it. He was clear after the fact excuse me. He let it go on for 13 seconds and was only when the chant diminished that he started talking again. Right. He said nothing there. He said nothing in his tweet i promise, im going to hear you. He said nothing there or in