Also with us, david frum, Senior Editor for the atlantic and Eugene Robinson for the washington most an an msnbc political analyst. Casey, that seemed to be the ignition for this debate tonight is when that subject came up, naturalborn citizen to ted cruz. The back and forth went on for at least ten minutes it seems. It went on for quite some time, lawrence. And im sure its going to, no matter what happens with the remander oaf this debate, dominate many of the headlines. Cruz in some ways taking this attack to donald trump in a stronger way than weve seen some other candidates who tried to go after him on stage. The back and forth between them showed cruz standing in many ways, seeming like an equal to trump, which has been the main challenge of this all the way along. But trump at the end of the day made this seem like an big overarching issue that he wasnt necessarily raising himself, but pointing to lawyers and others who say this might be simply raising the question. And trump saying the reason hes doing this now is because cruz is rising in the polls and he might actually do well against him. In a norral election cycle, people might be put off by someone saying theyre doing something for political reasons. Im not sure here if thats perceived as, in fact, a little bit of honestly from donald trump. Cruz tried to say once again this is a matter of settled law. And trump quoted lawrence tribe who was ted cruzs constitutional law teacher. Lawrence tribe first started speaking publicly about this on this program where he raised doubt about the question of whether ted cruz is actually meeting the qualifications of natural born citizens to be president of the United States. Professor tribe gave us a statement tonight in reaction to what ted cruz said about him on the stage. Ted cruz said hes not surprised that lawrence tribe is doing thisser because, as ted cruz put it, lawrence tribe is a huge hillary supporter. He dismissed all of lawrence tribes scholarship on this matter, simply by the notion that hes a huge hillary supporter. Here is professor lawrence tribes response to what he heard on the debate stage tonight. Quote, i endorsed obama over hillary in 2008 and havent endorsed anyone for 2016. Cruz is just make things up. Truth seems to be beyond his reach. Very sad. Eugene robinson, thats lawrence tribes response to what he heard. How do you think it played in that debate . Well, lawrence, i think basically that any minute spent talking about ted cruzs eligibility on a debate stage is a good minute for trump and a bad minute for cruz. Cruz is there having to explain why he is eligible to be where he is standing and why he is eligible to run for president. I dont think that is good for the cruz candidacy at all. You know, they went back and forth. You could grade the witticisms any way you want. I just think that the whole extended discussion probably played better for trump than for cruz. David frum, you have the cross border perspective on this, being from canada yourself. The audience there seems to have been equally divided amongst supporters of every candidate. Because in the first round of questioning, every single answer by every candidate seemed to get the same amount of wild cheering applause. And on this issue, as it was going back and forth between trump and cruz, there was some booing, there was some cheering. It was hard to read the crowd. But read for us the republican politics of this outside of that debate hall tonight. You had it exactly right. If donald trump wins iowa and wins New Hampshire, this theory that has been dominating the party that hes simply going to melt away somehow, that becomes hard to sustain. The great question mark has been, maybe he wont win iowa. Maybe someone who appeals to the more religiously traditional portion of iowa could win. All he has to do is shave off 2 , 4 . It depends on which poll you look at the. But he doesnt have to crush he doesnt have to damage him. Him. He just has to shave him. If trump wins iowa and then i think its pretty generally expected that he will go on and win New Hampshire. How does this race recover from that from the point of view of any of the other republican candidates. And although i think cruz was dominant and correct and witty, trump continued to sew the seeds of doubt while denying he was doing it. And casey, does the Cruz Campaign point to if they can pull out a win in iowa, where do they point on the electoral map to their next win . South carolina, lawrence. Right where were standing tonight. I mean, the question, i think, that overrides a lot of this is if donald trump does, in fact, lose to ted cruz in iowa, how does trump personally react to that . He isnt someone who typically takes well to losing. However, if hes able to go into New Hampshire in the position that hes in now and potentially do well, the fight is going to come down here. Weve seen historically iowa doesnt necessarily make the deciding be the deciding factor here. South carolina has a much stronger history of anointing eventual nominees. And the reality is that, you know, trump is pretty strong here, but cruz has also appealed to some of the evangelicals. Hes also appealing to many of the more libertarianfocused voters that there might be out there. Theres a lot of them actually in South Carolina. Especially if rand paul tends to fall off. And then from South Carolina, youve got nevada, and then youre on to the scc primary states. And thats a place where cruz has focused a lot of his energy. So i have to say, the republicans are also meeting here. The rnc is having their meeting in charleston. And i was over there earlier today talking to folks. The discussion has almost come down to, if trump and cruz are our choices, who do we think is more palatable . I mean, theres almost theres so much less discussion of trying to figure out who is this establishment guy going to be that we can all get hbehind and try to unite our party. The ad war is extraordinary intense here in South Carolina. Theres a very tough is ad from the Jeb Bush Super pac calling marco rub yore a weather vane on immigration. It could take down marco rubio potentially for cruz if he can manage to stay in a strong position as far as here. The reason were talking about South Carolina is in the polls at the moment indicate that donald trump doesnt seem to have any real problem in winning New Hampshire. Something is going to have to change there for there to be someone else on top in New Hampshire. And so gene robinson, were looking at your home state. Were looking at South Carolina as the one that tells us who might be two wins by that time. And as we frequently do, those first two have their own way of settling things in iowa and New Hampshire. How do you handicap the republican race when it turps to South Carolina . Right now, trump is obviously way ahead according to the polls. There hasnt been a lot of frequent polling in South Carolina. But theres another interesting moment in tonights debate when trump was asked in a somewhat chastising tone, are you really angry like nikki haley, the governor seems to say you are. And trump said yeah, im very angry. The country is being run horribly and im angry about it. And i point to that because remember what happened four years ago in South Carolina. The distinguishing characteristic of the republican electorate in South Carolina four years ago was anger. To the surprise of the establishment in South Carolina. And the state ended up voting for newt gingrich, largely on the basis of a very angry antiobama speech and debate performance he had had just a little bit before the primary. So there is this sort of hard edge that South Carolina can sometimes adopt when it comes to election day. Again, i think that was another moment i would say was probably good for trump. A quick break here. Casey hunt, thank you very much for joining us from South Carolina tonight. Jonathan allen will join us. Hes going to talk about why some democrats are now worried that donald trump might be a tougher candidate than they thought to beat in a general election if thats what it comes to. And tavis smiley will join us to talk about the little dustoff he had this week. Or big one, with donald trump. This is joanne. Her long day as a hair stylist starts with shoulder pain when. Hey joanne, want to trade the all day relief of 2 aleve with 6 tylenol . Give up my 2 aleve for 6 tylenol . No thanks. For me. Its aleve. 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Joe biden is not the only democrat who thinks the unthinkable is now thinkable, is now possible. But he is the highestranking democrat who has said that, yes, donald trump could win the presidency. Yes, i think its possible. And i hope that if that were to occur i hope it doesnt because i have fundamentally different views than he does i hope that he gets a lot more serious about the issues, a lot more serious about gaining knowledge about how this nation functions and Foreign Policy and domestic policy. But look, thats a long way off. A. And roll call, Jonathan Allen writes, quote, for a long time, democrats seemed content to watch trump wreak havoc on the republican primary field. Now, though, its clear theyre alarmed at the possibility heck win the presidency. Jonathan allen joins us now along with Eugene Robinson and david frum. Jonathan allen, im starting to hear exactly what you reported look, lets just concede, the attitude on trump across the board with all of us, democrats, republicans, operatives, pundits, has changed over time. It has had to change over time. The facts on the ground have changed over time. But democrats who used to think what a gift, how lucky could we be to run against donald trump, arent so sure about that anymore. Yeah. Its a doublebarrelled concern. Number one, they see him as somebody who could win the presidency in terms of the political map. And then number two, theyre worried about what he would actually do if he became president of the United States. And gene robinson, theres a fear among democrats that donald trump is willing to throw punches that no one else would even think about throwing or even know how to do. I mean, as he came out of the gate talking about bill clintons past, bill clinton, theyve never, ever Hillary Clinton have never had to campaign directly against a candidate raising the accusations about bill clintons past. Right. And look, if donald trump no one should never say oh, no, hell never go there, right . He will go there. He goes there every time. And if you look at where he was when he started his candidacy and no one took him seriously and no one thought he would do particularly well, look where he is now. I think anyone who underestimates him as a politician, has someone who has figured this sort of disinter mediated world perhaps better than other politicians have, and a way to get his message through, you know, anybody who underestimates him i think is nuts. And again, when he gets to the general election, if he does does anyone think for a minute that he will feel particularly bound by what he said in the primary . I actually dont. I think he wont just sort of slide to the center. I think hell go all over the map wherever he needs to go. Andrea mitchell raised this with nancy pelosi this week. Lets listen to this. Trump accused by Hillary Clinton of sexism. He then tweeted out. Watch out, if you go there, im going to go there. And then he goes after bill clinton and bill clintons past. And we saw a noticeable change in the clinton world. I was out on the campaign and the pulling back by both hillary and bill clinton. A new caution out there, because obviously donald trump is a volatile adversary. How fraught is this with risk for the Democratic Party and for Hillary Clintons candidacy . Well, i believe that Hillary Clinton want to talk about the issues that affect people and their everyday life. But on the issue of bill clinton past, is that fair game . It would be if he was running for president. But he isnt. Hillary clinton is running for president. David frum, i have a feeling that donald trump isnt going to play by Nancy Pelosis rules. Hes not going to play by anyones rules. He just saw the republican candidates dig themselves in. Hey, 50 caliber machine guns . Im for them. Personal flame thrower, im looking myself here on national television. But donald trump has an ability to pivot. For example, on the issue of health care, every other republican on that stage is committed in one way or another taking Health Care Coverage away from millions of people who have it now. Donald trump is capable of saying almost anything. Its not just i think actually the clinton sexual issues are thats misdirection. The mother load of pain and damage is on the financial scandals. The clinton foundation, how the clintons got so astonishingly rich at a time when mrs. Clinton was secretary of state and likely next president of the United States. That is the kind of thing that donald trump delights in talking about. He delights in talking about the corruption of the american political system, which the clintons unfortunately do exemplify. And so it is i forget now whose line it is its like driving in a nascar race where one of the drivers is drunk. Hes not drunk. Hes just willing to take risks that nobody else is willing to take. If donald trump wants to get into talking about complex Financial Transactions involving the clintons, hes got an awful lot of complex Financial Transactions. Hes got involvement with the mafia and others in building buildings in new york city. It seems to me, that would be an area where he would be happy to have a truce with the clintons. Thing his strategy is always whenever hes got a vulnerability to attack the other side, his opponent for whatever similar vulnerability they might have to get out there first on it. And so far it seems to be pretty effective. Obviously theres a lot to dig into on donald trump. If he makes the general election 37 i think youll hear a lot more about these things. But right now, hes on the attack so much, its hard to dig in on him because every five minutes theres a new tweet making news. To the point that Andrea Mitchell was raising, which was an observable Clinton Campaign retreat away from engaging in any kind of combat with donald trump, do you have any sense of disappointment among democrats, among clinton supporters who were eager. Oh, they cant wait for bill clinton to get out there, see what he has to say about donald trump to discover bill clinton isnt willing now to say anything about donald trump. To tell you the truth, what i detect from the clinton camp right now is paying more attention to Bernie Sanders to donald trump. Yep, good reason. Theyve got a primary campaign on their hands now. Seven points in the latest national poll. And theyve got to try to win iowa and New Hampshire or theyre not going to get the chance to go after donald trump. And the electability argument, david frum, has become complex for Hillary Clinton, since we show Bernie Sanders actually outperforming her, specifically in the matchup with trump. He does significantly better than she does. Again, i worry about polls that ask people questions t