The fbi and congress are now examining this Campaign Event last spring in washington. Some say the russians wont be reasonable. I intend to find out. Before the speech, there was a vip reception. And the Russian Ambassador was there, as well as jeff session. I dont recall. It is possibility. His explanation was terrible. I dont recall. It seems like amnesia is contagious. Everybody in this organization seems to get it from one another. Putin for the first time, he has acknowledged Russian Hackers could have played a role in meddling with the u. S. Election. Private Russian Hackers not connected to the government could have been involved. If they are in patriotic mood. Putin is enjoying this. At what point do they start laughing at us as a country . Why would the president s soninlaw Jared Kushner want secret back Channel Communications with the kremlin that no one in the American Government would know about during the transition from the Obama Administration to the Trump Administration . Could it be that Jared Kushner wanted to begin dismantling sanctions on russia as fast as possible, especially on one russian bank that might be able to help Jared Kushner out of financial trouble on one of his new York Real Estate projects. Is that what Jared Kushner discussed with the head of that russian governmentowned bank in middecember . Tonights breaking news developments are moving us closer to answers to those questions. Tonight here on msnbc, Michael Isikoff reported his findings to chris hayes that as soon as President Trump was sworn in, Trump Administration officials started a high speed state Department Review of sanctions on russia. Obama administration officials, some of whom had just left their jobs, did everything they could to slow down the trump attempt to remove the sanctions. Tom malinowski who was obamas assistant secretary of state for human rights told Michael Isikoff he alerted members of congress, including democrats and republicans of what he believed the Trump Administration was trying to do. Democratic senator ben cardin and republican senator Lindsey Graham hastily introduced Bipartisan Legislation to prevent the Trump Administration from unilaterally removing those sanctions. But the administrations momentum on removing sanctions suddenly stalled a few days later when the president was forced to Fire National security adviser michael flynn. Michael isikoffs reporting adds a possible dimension to an earlier breaking news report tonight from the Washington Post which revealed that the white house and a russian Stateowned Bank have very different explanations for why the banks chief executive and Jared Kushner held a secret meeting during the president ial transition in september. The bank maintained this week that the session was held as part of a new Business Strategy and was conducted with kushner in his role as the head of his familys real estate business. The white house says that the meeting was unrelated to business and was one of many diplomatic encounters the soon to be president ial adviser was holding ahead of Donald Trumps inauguration. Sergey gorkov is the head of that russian bank. Its a government owned bank. Vladimir putin appointed Sergey Gorkov as the head of that bank. One russia expert told the Washington Post that the bank, quote, operates like putins slush fund. That bank was sanctioned by the Obama Administration. Under the obama sanctions, that bank could not do business with Jared Kushner or his familys real estate business. Sanctions would have to be lifted in order to make it possible for Sergey Gorkovs bank to loan money to Jared Kushner or do any business with him or his family. But thats what the sanctioned bank insists that meeting was about. If it was about that, then obviously Jared Kushner would need those sanctions removed as quickly as possible. Of course, the white house insists that the meeting was not about personal business at all. That it was simply a diplomatic meeting of some kind. Former u. S. Ambassador to russia Michael Mcfaul says that Sergey Gorkov has no diplomatic function in the russian government, has not been known to be used as any kind of back channel to Vladimir Putin. When Sergey Gorkov was the deputy head of another russian bank in 2013, that bank was one of the sponsors of the Miss Universe pageant in moscow produced by donald trump. After yesterdays reports that attorney general Jeff Sessions may have had a secret meeting at washingtons Mayflower Hotel with the Russian Ambassador last spring, nbc news is reporting today that that meeting included Jeff Sessions, Jared Kushner, and donald trump, who gave a Campaign Speech that day at the Mayflower Hotel. Last night on this program, senator al franken revealed that he and senator Patrick Leahy sent a letter to the fbi in march, asking them to investigate any contacts between attorney general Jeff Sessions and russian officials. Joining us now, ken dilanian for nbc, peter baker, chief White House Correspondent for the New York Times and an msnbc political analyst. Previously he was the Moscow Bureau chief for the Washington Post for four years. And also with us joy reid, msnbc National Correspondent and the host of a. M. Joy on weekends on msnbc. Ken dilanian, i want you to take us over what nbc news is reporting tonight, adding to all of this. Absolutely, lawrence. And first i want to be very clear about one thing. Jeff sessions adamantly denies that he had a meeting with Sergey Kislyak at that Mayflower Hotel event. His spokesman denies it on the record. And this is one of the reasons, you know, ive known about this and ive been reporting on this meeting for a while as i think have some other reporters in this town. And there has been a lot of haziness about what exactly congressional investigators were learning. And thats why i was really glad to see senator al franken on your show last night go on the record and say look, we have reason to believe, thats the phrase he used, that this was not as had been first reported. Recall that this was a speech that donald trump gave during the primary, sponsored by a russian friendly think tank. And before the speech, there was a vip reception at which Sergey Kislyak, the Russian Ambassador was present, along with some other diplomats. Jared kushner was in the room. Jeff sessions was in the room. It was reported that donald trump shook Sergey Kislyaks hand. But sessions people and kushners peach denied they had any substantive encounter with kislyak. Well, now were being told that congressional investigators have reason to believe, and theyre not exactly saying what that reason, but theyre suggesting that it is classified evidence, that there may have been a private encounter. Thats not proof that there is one, but they have reason to believe it. And they also tell us that the fbi is very interested in this meeting and is concerned that perhaps the russians were seeking to ingratiate themselves with the Trump Campaign at this meeting. Dont forget that april is around the time the democrats first discovered a hack in their network, lawrence. Joy reid, the denials about this meeting seem to be playing with language. Theyre saying things like didnt have a private meeting. What does that mean . Does that mean oneonone . No one else in the room . Are they trying to say well, its not a meeting if anyone else is in the room . Im wondering if these denials are really turning on what is the meaning of the word meeting. Yeah. And of course this co comes afte everyone in the trump world has denied knowing who Sergey Kislyak is practically. No one can seem to remember meeting with him. And i think ken made really the key point is that april is one the sort of hacking was sort of in its peak, right . It didnt go throughout the year in 2016. We knew it was active in the spring of 2016. So this would have been at that same time. And you just have this series of meetings between members of the Trump Campaign and people like Sergey Kislyak and people that are connected to this russian sanctioned bank. Kit not possibly be all coincidental and the Trump Campaigns denials cannot all be true. Lets listen to what congressman adam schiff said about Jeff Sessions involvement in all of this. He failed to disclose his meetings with the Russian Ambassador when he testified. He then when he was called on it supplemented his testimony. If that supplemental testimony still wasnt accurate, and there were additional meetings or an additional meeting. And again, this is just an allegation, that would be a very Serious Business because that would indicate a very knowing desire to conceal information from this senate and potentially provide false testimony. Peter baker, how much trouble is Jeff Sessions in . Well, we dont really know, obviously. Look, its important to say that meeting or shaking hands with an ambassador by and of itself is not necessarily a problem. I mean, in fact, there were four ambassadors there at that meeting in april if i understand correctly. But the trouble is, as we were just saying is whether or not he fully told the truth about it. Whether he didnt disclose something that he knew or remembered correctly. And we dont know the nature of the conversation, if there was a conversation. The head of the organization that sponsored that speech told me several months ago that he didnt recall sessions and kislyak actually directly talking at that reception before that speech. So, you know, if thats not case, then it would be interesting to know what that evidence. So its still very murky, obviously. And weve got to be careful about drawing too large connections when we dont have all the facts yet. Peter, id like you to draw on your moscow experience and give us your reaction to this reporting tonight about Jared Kushner meeting with the russian banker. This is a governmentowned bank. A sanctioned bank. The bank is saying, hey, it was to discuss private business, possibly involving Jared Kushner and his family. The white house is saying oh, no, no. This was a very diplomat Jared Kushner at work. Yeah, its very odd. And it is thats curious. Its one thing to have representatives of a new administration coming in, meet with accredited diplomats. Thats normal. That happens. But to meet with the head of a sanctioned bank, a bank that were not allowed to do business with under american law at the moment, that raises questions. What was that about . How did they get connected . What was the purpose of the meeting . What was discussed at the meeting . What was the goal of Jared Kushner when he met with his bank, what did he bring away from that meeting . And we dont know the answer to that. In russia basically, people like the head of bank are agents of putins kremlin. Theyre not free actors. Theyre not independent player theres. What was going on there, we dont know. Again, we dont want to draw too large inferences from a sketchy amount of fax. But it certainly raise as lot of questions. Joy, its awfully easy to construct scenarios about the Jared Kushner meeting which are very, very bad for Jared Kushner. And which explain why he would want to hide these contacts. Yeah, and the problem for the Trump Administration is that when you start to go sort of the act achems razor, why they seem to be constantly moving in one direction, in russias favor, then hanging off to the side are Jared Kushners own business contacts. That 666 fifth average, that heavily leveraged building from which he has been actively seeking financing is hanging out there. And donald trump, his fatherinlaw had this obsessive interest in russia since it was a part of the soviet union, going back to the mid 1980s when he was proffering himself as a diplomat that could solve the nuclear issue. The business he did in terms of the Miss Universe pageant in russia there is a consistent pattern here. And for Jared Kushner, if these were innocent contacts, there was no reason not to disclose them. He was not a diplomat. And the administration, the Incoming Administration by december had at least one person who had some standing. They had already decided who was going to be their secretary of defense. But he wasnt having these contacts. Its Jared Kushner who had no diplomatic experience, but was the head of a business, not yet a part of the administration. Ken, one of the things you mentioned was the possibility that congressional investigators and or the fbi might have some classified evidence that informs them about this meeting at the Mayflower Hotel. And one of the forms of classified evidence that they might have would be an intercepted communication from the Russian Ambassador to moscow about that meeting. And that might include an account of the meeting that contradicts Jeff Sessions in a very sharp way. Thats absolutely right, lawrence. That is certainly my speculation. I dont have that confirmed. Thats certainly the suggestion that ive been getting from some sources, that we are its very highly classified and sensitive, which is why they cant talk about it. But weve certainly seen this in other contexts. We know in the context of Jared Kushner seeking a back channel with the russians, that story was based on an intercepted kislyak communication back to moscow. And the leakers to the Washington Post were willing to disclose that at potential peril to that channels communications. Thats certainly a possibility. And if thats the case, this is a huge problem for Jeff Sessions. Because, you know, he has already corrected his under oath testimony once. I dont think you get a Second Chance to clear up the matter of how often you met with the Russian Ambassador. Ken dilanian, thank you very much for joining us tonight. I really appreciate it. Good to be with you. Joy reid, peter baker are going to stay with us. Democrats are demanding Jared Kushners security clearance be revoked. And what happened to americas position in the world today when the president decided to drop out of the Paris Climate Accord. And why russia should be very happy about that. You wish to see. What i have seen . You will. When. I. Kill you. [ explosions ] [ intense music ] the mummy. Rated pg13. Abreak through your allergies. . Try new Flonase Sensimist allergy relief instead of allergy pills. Its more complete allergy relief in a gentle mist experience youll barely feel. 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