Special prosecutor is going to talk to steve bannon, who you spent a lot of time talking to. The Special Prosecutor has been talking to many of your sources in this book. Has the Special Prosecutor reached out to you to talk to you about either the firing of the Special Prosecutor or any other elements of this story . He has not. And if the Special Prosecutor does want to interview you, would you cooperate with that . Good question, and i dont know the answer. But i think that the answer is, yes, because i have nothing to hide. Everything i know is in the book. What about the sources that are many sources are revealed in the book and many quotes attributed to people. But there are a lot of unattributed quotes. If the Special Prosecutor would point to the book and say who is the source here, and its a source i cant reveal, i clearly would not. You know theres no privilege. The Special Prosecutor could hold you in contempt and you could end up in jail by refusing
to answer that. Ive had a lot of threats over the last few weeks. We take them as they come. The i want to go to a passage about don mcgahn thats in your book, because i have to the say, for readers of this book, the detail that the president specifically ordered the firing is just one more little piece that fits into this story completely and the characters behave in the way we understand them from your book. Heres reference to don mcgahn, paige 212 of your book. Mcgahn tried to explain that, in fact, comey himself was not running the russia investigation, that without Comey The Investigation would proceed anyway. Mcgahn, the lawyer whose job was to issue cautions, was a frequent target of trump rages. Typically these would begin as a kind of exaggeration or acting and then devolve into the real thing. Now the president is focussed in a vicious fury on mcgahn and his cautions about comey. Thats just comey. So we can presume something similar went on with that with the attempt to fire mueller. Let me give a slightly different context than the New York Times gives. The New York Times makes it sound like trump thought about it, sat down, determined that he should fire that he should fire mueller, that he should act on this, and then told mcgahn to cary this out. And thats not untrue. But the difference is, he does this constantly. Every day the president is saying hes going to fire somebody. Anybody who he feels is has annoyed him, irritated him, gotten in his way, disagreed with him is going to be fired. The Firing Of Mueller was talked about by trump, especially in this june, july period, before his legal team really got in and took over, this became an obsession with the president. He had to get rid of mueller. Now but n an obsession with this president becomes, instead of instead of an order, it becomes kind of like wallpaper, it just goes on and on and on. He just repeats and repeats and repeats. Is it serious . Is it just him spouting off ultimately thats what the Special Prosecutor will have to decide. And its a key thing, because the Special Prosecutor has to prove intent. If hes just a crazy person, which, in part he is, its going
to be very hard to prove intent. So was there a moment in which he directed this to happen . Well, actually, yes, but there were hundreds of moments in which he does that and in which everybody sort of deflects. Equally, the times has mcgahn threatening to quit. Mcgahn has probably threatened to quit a hundred times. Actually what they say in even now, mcgahn would like to get out of there, they just cant find somebody else to replace him. So they have to come and each time beg him to stay. You have bannon in here saying quoting him now and attributing it to him, its not one of the unacknowledged quotes its bannon saying to you, if he fires mueller it just bring it is impeachment quicker. Was that the widespread view in the white house . Completely. Everybody believed Firing Mueller would be suicidal. And everybody had to deal with this every day, it was always fire mueller, how can we fire mueller . Get rid of this guy . And again, this was regarded as something less than real. It was just the stuff that comes out of the president s Mouth Uncontrollably and often meaningle meaninglessly. So youre describing a work place they dont take the guy seriously that they have to execute it, but if he pushes it to an order then they have to issue threats to resign . Yes. The question is but even that thats always going on. The efforts to resign because nobody wants to be there. So its this its a kind of the New York Timescuriously makes this sound normal. Even though what do you mean normal . Makes it sound like there is a man who has fought throuthoug something and made a decision. There are no decisions here. Its just blater. Of course, blather can become a decision. The comey firing. Nobody expected it to happen, and then it happened because he did it on his own. He just went rogue and suddenly it happened. So i believe that everybody expected and continues to expect mueller to be fired. But how that happens is a its a kind of a threedimensional thing because every day hes Firing Mueller. So how does it become how does that go from this kind of, you know, the president
president ial gas to the actually happening . Its making that case for his lawyers to try to make that presentation of the character is made virtually impossible because of his job. Meaning, a prosecutor and the people looking into this arent going to believe that a president is just that nutty and flaky and constantly saying things that arent really . I dont know if thats true. I think that is what is what mueller they ultimately that will be the ultimate question. Was there intent here or is or was this just daily stupidity really, incompetence, disregard. Theres a passage in here about the everybody in the white house believing that if the investigation moved long term into the trump Financial Transactions that that would be
disastrous for the president. And the president seemed to confirm that by having that be the thing that made him keep saying, i can fire mueller, i can fire mueller. Completely. And then at one point, of course, he says he gives an interview to the New York Times and he he draws the line. He says, Mueller Cant Go here. You know, cant go into his family finances. And, you know, bannon then pointed out to me afterward bannon makes this noise, he says lets just tell the prosecutor what he cant look at. Yes. Imagine for us as you know this Trump Character and i think have conveyed him better than anybody has conveyed him because you get these dimensions that are difficult to capture, all these weird dimensions. Imagine him in an interview with the Special Prosecutor when the special Prosecutor Says why did
you order don mcgahn to have me fired . What does trump say to that . I think its almost unimaginable, and from the Point Of View of the prosecutor, its both youre both going to get things that are immediately and stunningly incriminating, but youre also going to have to step back and say this is so stunningly incriminating that maybe its not incriminating, maybe hes just thats where we are the insanity defense. Playing stupid. The stupidity or insanity defense. Ive asked lawyers all week, what happens if lawyers convince him you cant talk to the Special Prosecutor, and then the Special Prosecutor decides to subpoena him and they refuse to respond to a subpoena . Is that imaginable to you that he would refuse to respond to a
subpoena and if hes held in Contempt Of Court will he respond to that . Its never happened before. I have no idea. I would say because im a reasonable person, it cant happen and eventually he has to respond. I remember bannon going in there and the president would go, i have Executive Privilege, i have Executive Privilege and bannon would say no, you dont. Weve gone through this before. President s have to testify when theyre subpoenaed. I put out on twitter about questions, and one of the biggest questions was about nikki haley. Lets look to an interview that nikki haley did today that part of the interview was provoked by something you said last week. Lets listen to this. He told the comedian and Television Host bill maher that
hes president sure that the president is having an affair and close readers of his book would be able to figure out who the president is having an affair with. So wolff writes in the book, quote, that the president had been spending an amount of private time with nikki haley on Air Force One and was seeming to groom her for a National Public future. I dont think you have to be Sherlock Holmes to see what hes insinuating. But i would like to get your response to that insinuation. It is not true. It is highly offensive. And its disgusting. If you look at what ive said this before. It amazes me what people will do and the lies they will say for money and power. And in politics, its rampant. But here you have a man whos basically saying ive been spending a lot of time on Air Force One. I have literally been on air
force one once and there were several people in the room when i was there. He says im talking a lot with the president in the oval about my political future. I never talked once with the president about my future and im never alone with him. Do you believe that the u. S. Ambassador to the United Nations is having an affair with the president . What i know is in the book. Whats your reaction to what you just heard . I dont know who the reporter is who is, in fact, making the insinuati insinuation. So youre saying you invited people to read Between The Lines publically. Read Between The Lines. If i knew it, i would have said it. Is she reading between the right lines . That reporter who brought this question to nikki haley. Is she reading im not going to go further than whats in the book. Do you think its reasonable that this reporter brought this question to nikki haley based on
what she read in the book . I think all questions are reasonable. So but you did say you believed the president is currently having an affair. Not in the book, but you said that publically. I believe the president well, you know its what is an affair . Remember that question . Lets put it this way, sex with someone whos not his wife. I i believe there a number of reliable, and i would say authoritative, people in the white house have said that. And nikki haley saying thats not true, its highly offensive, its disgusting, seems to agree the implication is that its her. She seems to be, yes. I dont know. It is literally whats in the book. If you want to infer, i well, i do want to ip to clarify for the public record. You never said nikki haley. You never said any name. I did not. So anyone who has brought nikki haley in this has done so through their own reading . Yes. Going back to the Obstruction Case with the president. As you hear these various scenarios being played out and you hear john dowd saying, its not the president whos going to decide, im going to decide whether the president agrees to do this interview. Do you think this is how this will happen . John dowd will say to the president yes, you can or no, you cant . I think he will. But this is donald trump. He will do what he wants to do, and its likely he will decide i can go in there and charm these guys, i can sell them. Michael wolff thank you for joining us again tonight. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Coming up the, the panel is joining us. They will consider everything thats developed. Some of them taking notes during Michael Wolffs conversation here. Well see what they think the Special Prosecutor is going to react to. Also adam schiff will join us, thats coming up. How do you win at business . Stay at la quinta. Where were changing with stylish makeovers. Then at your next meeting, set your seat height to its maximum level. Bravo, tall meeting man. Start winning today. Book now at lq. Com coaching means making tough choices. Stjim youre in y. But when you have high Blood Pressure and need Cold Medicine that works fast, the choice is simple. Coricidin hbp is the 1 brand that gives powerful Cold Symptom Relief without raising your Blood Pressure. Coricidin hbp. Especially in this june, july period, before his legal team really got in and took over. This became an obsession with the president. He had to get rid of mueller. Now an obsession with this this president becomes, instead of instead of an order, it becomes kind of like wallpaper, it just goes on and on and on. He repeats and repeats and repeats. Thats the Instant Replay of my interview with Michael Wolff. Joining us now ron kline the former Chief Counsel to the Senate Judiciary committee and Chief Of Staff to janet reno. And jill winebanks. And matt miller. Jill, i want to go with you, my
discussion with michael, i wish i had a lawyer with us. Because there were moments he talked about what the Special Prosecutor was going to find from this witness donald trump and from others that there was this vague blanket of noise that he described ultimately as wallpaper that was the fire mueller wallpaper and was that really a specific demand to fire mueller and michael was speculating the Special Prosecutor is going to have to get inside the president s head to figure out what his actual intent was in those statements. What was your reaction to that . I think intent was one of the more interesting parts of that interview. He also said that the president likes to say, youre fired, and he does it all the time. He apparently learned his lesson on The Apprentice all too well. As far as intent its tricky for a lawyer to be able to prove intent. But in this case there are so many acts in further answance t
jury can infer intent. And the other problem is if he didnt intent the corrupt Firing Of Mueller and, lets face it, of comey, then if wolff is correct, he sounds like the alternative is the man is crazy. If hes crazy and incompetent and stupid, which are the words Michael Wolff used then we have to look at the 25th Amendment and congress has to stand up and say the man is incompetent. Those seem to be the fwo choices he was saying, it was hard to choose intent because hes crazy. That leads up from impeachment possibly to the 25th Amendment. Possibly its a lose for trump. And the 25th Amendment is mentioned specifically by steve bannon and steve bannon gives it
a 33 in his calculations of it actually being used against this president for exactly this kind of stuff in Michael Wolffs book. Ron, jill said a jury can infer intent, which is what i was thinking when i was listening to michael. If this was a normal case, the issues Michael Wolff was talking about, does he mean it, that would be left to a jury. With the president its not clear if this gets brought to a jury. It might be brought to congress and in an impeachment proceeding thats one of the things for Congress Left to decide. Donald trump may be crazy, but hes not legally insane. The standard on that is very high. I think mr. Wolffs legal analysis is kind of back wards, all due respect. And jill pointed out there are specific acts of obstruction. He wasnt spouting off when he
did fire james comey, when he instructed a false statement be produced by don junior about that trump tower meeting. So there are a lot of specific acts. And what mr. Wolff calls the wallpaper i think is powerful evidence of intent. The fact that trump is saying we ought to get rid of mueller, do this, that, just shows a focus on stopping the investigation. Not about Conflict Of Interest or supervising the Justice Department, its about stopping the investigation. That would be powerful evidence of his intent, this is not someone who acts like an ininnocent person, lawrence. Thats the most important thing that comes out of the picture that wolff paints. I was struck by that term wallpaper that Michael Wolff used. It tells us a lot. If you ever listened to the wiretaps of mafia headquarters
in new york or boston or different places, the wallpaper was we need to get rid of that guy, and at some point that guy would be gotten rid of with or without a specific order on those mafia wiretaps. But youre all taking notes while Michael Wolfff was talking. Your reaction to what you heard . I was struck by what h