Good evening, lawrence. Good evening, rachel. And thank you for just reminding us that the russia investigation is about russia. Yeah. Something its easy to lose sight of since theres so many other angles going in this including obstruction of justice by the president after the fact of the campaign. But this full cooperation from someone on the russian side of this case, this is an extraordinary turn. I mean, the thing that i am alt a human drama level it is fascinating to think about somebody who prosecutors have laid out tons of evidence was operating as an agent of the russian government in this country. If she was operating as a russian government agent and now shes cooperating with the fbi and federal prosecutors, the course of her life is about to change very, very dramatically. But also if she in her case can shed light on whatever it was happened with the nra and trump and russia in 2016 that will be a Great Service to us in terms of understanding what happened to us. Because that has been a really big weird black box in the middle of this scandal. And it could in the end show us the dimensions of interference in the election, the ways it can be done beyond what we already know and what if any role the nra played in that. Yeah. I mean, reported earlier this year one of the things the fbi was investigating was whether the florida had been used as a conduit for money. We havent seen the money side of the russia scandal laid out very clearly. If thats actually what happened with the florida and butina was part of that, presumably well get access to that. If this was something coming out of putins inner circle in connection with this russian alexander torsion, shes potentially a hugely Important New Development here if we are going to get clear on what exactly she was up to. And it boggles the mind. If she is in anyway a threat to vladimir putin, how is she going to live the rest of her life . How is this going to work . I was at my news meeting and my staff today, we heard she was going to plead and so we were all talking about the possibility she would also have a cooperation agreement. And was over there standing there confidently saying that is inconceivable. Inconceivable, that definitely couldnt happen. Now apparently its happening. Here we are. Thank you, rachel. Thanks, lawrence. Well, the legal ground has shifted quickly under President Trump since he was named as individual one by federal prosecutors on friday. Who described in a sentencing memo from Michael Cohen how donald trump directed Michael Cohen to commit federal crimes to benefit Donald Trumps president ial campaign. Democratic congressman adam schiff who is himself a former federal prosecutor said yesterday that President Trump now faces the possibility of jail time. Theres a very real prospect that on the day donald Trump Leaves Office the Justice Department may indict him, that he may be the first president in quite some time to face the real democratic congressman adam schiff who is himself a former federal prosecutor said yesterday that President Trump now faces the possibility of jail time. Theres a very real prospect that on the day donald Trump Leaves Office the Justice Department may indict him, that he may be the first president in quite some time to face the real prospect of jail time. We have been discussing the issue of pardons that the president may offer to people or dangle in front of people. The bigger pardon question may come down the road as the next president may have to determine whether to pardon donald trump. Unless of course donald trump pardons himself before leaving the presidency. Impeachment proceedings against a president begin in the House Judiciary Committee. The House Judiciary Committee which in the cases of president nixon and president clinton conducted weeks of investigative hearings before the committee voted to send articles of impeachment to the full house of representatives for their consideration. The chairman of the House Judiciary Committee who will have that duty in a trump impeachment if that happens is democratic congressman jerry nadler of new york city who will become chairman of the Judiciary Committee when democrats take control in january. At the beginning of last week on this program congressman nadler was a bit reluctant to talk about impeachment. It was the day after the president tweeted his approval and encouragement of roger stone saying that he will refuse to ever testify against donald trump. That tweet was reasonably interpreted by many legal scholars to be clearly witness tampering on the part of the president , which was actually one of the counts in the articles of impeachment that the house judiciary passed against Richard Nixon. I asked congressman nadler how he would approach the possibility of impeachment now that President Trump has already publicly crossed a line that Richard Nixon crossed. Were going to have to look at all the evidence. All the evidence that the special counsel comes up with, the things that are being done in public, the things we find out are being done and make decisions. There are certainly things he has done that give the appearance of witness tampering, that give the appearance of obstruction of justice. Whether they amount to that and whether you can prove those charges is a different question, but theres certainly evidence. And well have to look at all of that. That was tuesday night, perfectly reasonable response. Theres evidence, were going to have to look at all the evidence. Heres jerry nadler yesterday discussing what we learned on friday from the federal prosecutors who said in writing that Michael Cohen committed federal crimes to influence the outcome of the 2016 president ial election, quote, in coordination with and at the direction of individual one. If its proven, are those impeachable offenses . Well, they would be impeachable offenses, whether they are important enough to justify an impeachment is a different question. But certainly theyd be impeachable offenses because even though they were committed before the president became president , they were committed in the service of fraudulently obtaining the office. The fact of the matter is what we see from these indictments and charging statements and is much broader conspiracy against the american people. In less than a week the incoming chairman of the House Judiciary Committee has gone from careful statements of having to wait and look at all the evidence the special counsel comes up with to yesterday saying, yes, what we learned on friday about donald trump would be impeachable offenses. Individual one has changed everything. The presumption that has floated around washington for decades that the president of the United States cannot be indicted is being challenged more and more every day. Harvard law professor lawrence tribe has now concluded that the president definitely can be indicted. He will join us later in this hour with his reasoning for why the president can be indicted. Individual one really has changed everything, which is to say Michael Cohen has changed everything for donald trump. Michael cohens guilty plea combined with the federal prosecutors putting it in writing Michael Cohens crimes were committed in coordination with at direction of individual one has changed everything from donald trump. Now there is talk of indicting the president. Now there is talk of jail time for the president. And now there is talk of impeachment. The chairman of the committee who has jurisdiction over impeachment in the house of representatives is saying, yes, if the federal prosecutors on the Michael Cohen case can prove what they about individual one, then, yes, President Trump committed impeachable offenses. Washington can feel where we are now. Washington can feel what is coming now. An impeachment investigation by the House Judiciary Committee is all but inevitable. When he becomes chairman jerry nadler no dut will wait for Robert Mueller to complete his investigation, and that could take several more months. But then Jerry NadlersJudiciary Committee is going to have to investigate what he called impeachable offenses yesterday. At minimum the House Judiciary Committee is going to have to investigate how the president coordinated with and directed Michael Cohen to make illegal payments to two women to buy their silence in the final days of the president ial campaign about their Sexual Affairs with donald trump. Even individual one now realizes that impeachment is a real possibility. Cnn. Com is reporting tonight that a source close to the president says that President Trump sees impeachment as, quote, a real possibility. Everyone in washington can feel where this story is going now including individual one. The United States senate has a literary form called the Dear Colleague letter. It is usually a letter sent by one or more senators to all 100 senators. A Dear Colleague letter can be about relatively obscure unimportant things, but sometimes they are about the most important issues of the day, and tonight in the washington post, 44 senators have published and cosigned an extraordinary Dear Colleague letter to all 100 United States senators. The 44 senators signing this letter are all former senators, both democrat and republican. It says dear senate colleagues, as former members of the u. S. Senate democrats and republicans, it is our shared view that we are entering a dangerous period, and we feel an obligation to speak up about serious challenges to the rule of law, the constitution, our governing institutions and our National Security. We are on the eve of the conclusion of special counsel robert s. Mueller iiis investigation and the houses commencement of investigations of the president and his administration. The likely convergence of these two events will occur at the time when simmering regional conflicts and global power confrontations continue to threaten our security, economy and geopolitical stability. During our service in the senate at times we were allies and at other times opponents but never enemies. We all took an oath swearing allegiance to the constitution. At other critical moments in our history when constitutional crises have threatened our foundation, it has been the senate who has stood in defense of our democracy. Today is once again such a time. We urge current and future senators to be steadfast and zealous guardians of our democracy by ensuring that partisan or selfinterest not replace national interest. Leading off our discussion now mimi roca, former federal prosecutor, and judge sugarman, and ryan klaus. And it really does seem as if individual one has changed everything about this and very quickly. You hear adam schiff talking about jail time. Were going to hear professor tribe in a another segment talking about of course the president can be indicted as a sitting president. Jerry nadler now, these are impeachable offenses. 44 United States senators tonight thinking this is the moment. And they describe it there as the convergence of both what they believe is the end of the Mueller Investigation and what they are sure is the beginning of an impeachment process in the house. They didnt use the word impeachment but theyre talking about house investigations. Everyone can feel where this is now. And part of that lawrence is for so long we were only hearing trump and giuliani and his surrogates, and they were controlling the narrative. What you have now both from mueller and the Southern District is facts and evidence are coming out. And you can spin those, you can make arguments, but its really hard to really knock those down when they come out. And i think thats what happened on friday night. You had this trilogy and three different documents about donald trump, individual one in one document and clearly implications about him in the mueller document that just scream of criminal behavior, frankly. Its like reading a book where you have separate chapters and weve got a few of the chapters and some of the lines are blocked out like the flynn but were starting to get all of the chapters and we need to see the whole book. With cohen, with that memo that the Southern District wrote, they laid out as good of a case as anyone could about how this president with cohen manipulated the American Public to get to be president. And that is serious. And by freezing it the way they did they essentially said without using the fact words, we can prove this. And its not just Michael Cohen. I really believe thats the way it should be read. And thats the kind of latest stage of revelations. James comey in an interview with nicolle wallace, took us back to what it now seems like a story so long ago the obstruction of justice that might be brought against the president and possibly an impeachment process, involving him telling james comey to drop the flynn case. Lets listen to what james comey said thaubt that because its important to remember this is also part of the totality of the house of representatives will be considering when they take a look at the president s conduct. Lets listen to this. He asked me to drop the investigation. I just replied by saying, agreeing that flynns a good guy. Which had been my experience, had been a friendly, nice person in my interactions. And shortly after it ended and i left very quickly and writing down everything i remembered. And i emailed my staff, a lot of work to prepare me to give the first briefing to the new president. And i said the briefing went fine but now i have to write another memo. And they knew what i meant, something had happened. I sat down with them and said, read my memo because obviously its obstruction of justice. Obviously evidence of obstruction of justice. Yes, i think thats actually several points that we have on a case of obstruction of justice. But i think what makes the obstruction of justice claim much stronger than it has been, theres already been evidence and trump essentially confessed to obstruction when he told on nbc to lester holt that he fired jim comey because of the russia investigation. That was already enough for many people, for me, to conclude it was obstruction. But the key thing is were going to learn why flynn pleaded guilty and what hes given to mueller that will deepen the understanding of what trump was doing when he asked comey to let him go. Thats another key episode in his obstruction claim. Keep in mind that while Michael Cohen may be facing four years for a certain amount of crimes, flynn is facing zero jail time based on muellers request and he was implicated in crimes that are arguably far worse than cohens. So what im reading in between the lines here is flynn has given the goods and information to mueller. And if we find out what that is, that would make sort of a vague obstruction case to the public, much deeper and much more alarming. And brian, when you look at the list of those 44 senators who signed that letter tonight to the washington post, 11 republicans, many of them very solid republicans, allen simpson, these are many of the really serious players in the senate during their time in the senate like bill bradley, bob bradley, john carry on the democratic side of it. Im not sure when the concept for this letter was borne, but im sure it was speeded up after individual one was described by the federal prosecutors. Yeah, i mean, this is people from both sides coming together and saying this is bigger than one party. This is about rule of law in america, democracy, things we should agree on. And i think when you look at the totality of the picture here you have five people around the president , senior people. His campaign chairman, Deputy Campaign chairman, Foreign Security advisor and the net is closing in on donald trump. You have credible allegations now of him basically committing felonies around Campaign Finance. You have him conspiring with the russians. You also have the obstruction of Justice Charges and then you have adam schiff talking about credible allegations of money laundering. All of this stuff is stuff we should not disagree on. Its not acceptable. Its disqualifying, and its so sad to see we have lowered the bar so much you just have to commit a crime on the republican side. That seems to me what the senators were going for in their letter. Theyre talking about lets rise above partisanship. It seems to me that letter is much more directed at the republicans in the senate who have been so reflexively defensive of everything the president does. The sad thing about that letter is a lot of republicans are a dying breed of the republican party. Were not enemies, that doesnt cheer when the president says the press is the enemy of the people, that uses the law as weapons against his political opponents. So i think there needs to be moments in this country when we come together and stop having blue and red especially red in this instance that are a