Transcripts For MSNBCW The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

MSNBCW The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell July 23, 2019

Glosser how part of the impetus for doing this is stephen mill or the stump for trump was invoking his Family History to talk about his ancestors as if they might have been pro trump or Trump Supporters and that was too much for his family to stomach and they starred telling their story publicly. That was something to watch. Breaking news about Robert Muellers testimony to the house judiciary and Intelligence Committee and we will get to that in a moment. If you are going to follow the democratic debates and figure out which approach to health care is the best. The biden approach of strengthening the Affordable Care act or medicare for all, none of those are possible if the democrats dont have 60 votes in the senate. Right now they are 13 votes shy of 60 votes in the san jose. They are four votes shy of knocking Mitch Mcconnell out of the leaders position and installing chuck schumer. This is by far the most election coming up, but the second most important elections are the United States Senate Elections because if Mitch Mcconnell continues to control the senate, he might decide not to confirm a single federal judge or justice nominated by president sanders or warren or harris or President Biden or whoever the next democratic president turns out to be. If your favorite candidate manages to drive trump out of the pedestrian, but Mitch Mcconnell controls the senate, trumpism will control the United States senate. Its time for us here to start paying attention to Senate Candidate who is might be able to help push Mitch Mcconnell into the minority and defeat trumpism in the senate. We have an open invitation and well be bringing them to you regularly. We will be joined by the mayor of helena, montana challenging steve gains who occupies the senate seat that was occupied for 36 years by democrat max bacchus. Democrats can win in montan a. One of the democrats running in montana at end of the hour. The breaking news of the night is that the Justice Department is telling Robert Mueller he is not allowed to answer the questions that democrats plan to ask him on monday, especially the question if donald trump were not the president of the United States, would you have charged him with obstruction of justice . In a letter to Robert Mueller signed by an associate Deputy Attorney general, the Justice Department is telling Robert Mueller he may not make any comments on the facts developed and legal conclusions by the special counsels office with respect to uncharged individuals. Donald trump is an uncharged individual. The letter also said Robert Mueller should not testify about the deliberative process, including any discussions he and his staff had about investigative steps or decisions made during your investigation. That means according to the Justice Department anyway, Robert Mueller cannot answer the most important questions he will face on wednesday, including questions like why didnt you subpoena President Trump to testify to the grand jury . It means Robert Mueller will not be able to answer the question, were you or anybody anyone on your team concerned that President Trump would fire you . Thats a question about Robert Muellers deliberative process and the Justice Department is saying that he cannot answer questions like that. With Robert Mueller now scheduled to begin his testimony to the house judiciary on wednesday at 8 30, jerry nadler is only the third chairman of the House Judiciary Committee in our lifetime who ever had to answer a question like this question. Do you believe the president is guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors, the marker for impeachment by the house . I think there is very substantial, the report presents very substantial evidence that the president is guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors and we have to let mueller present the facts and see where we go from there. The Administration Must be held accountable and no president can be above the law. Heres how extraordinary that statement is. When the chairman of the house judiciary with jurisdiction over impeachment said there is very substantial evidence, that has always meant the president is going to be or is currently being impeached. Thats what it has always meant until now. Thats judge no chairman has ever said anything like that without then actually voting to impeach the president of the United States. Here is what the democratic chairman, peter ro dino said when he began the impeachment hearings against president richard nixon. There have been serious allegations. My people of good faith and sound intelligence, that the president , richard m. Nixon, has committed grave and systematic violations of the constitution. Impeachment resolutions were introduced by members of the house and referred to our committee by the speaker on february 6th. The house of representatives by a vote of 4104 authorized and directed the committee on the judiciary to investigate whether sufficient grounds exist to impeach richard m. Nixon, president of the United States. That was as rhetorically as far as the chairman of the house judiciary was willing to go when he was beginning impeachment hearings of president nixon. Jerry nadler has gone far beyond that and the house has not decided to have impeachment hearings. Chairman nadler seems to be regarding the hearing with Robert Mueller as the only witness as a preliminary hearing on the way to impeachment hearings. I believe that when people hear what was in the Mueller Report then we will be in a position to begin holding the president accountable and make this less of a lawless administration. We have never seen a situation where the president and the white house Stonewalls Congress on subpoenas. That was article three of the nixon impeachment. They stonewalled subpoenas. Here the president set out right out loud the stonewalling of subpoenas and thats an invasion of the separation of powers and a core function of the duty of congress to hold the Administration Accountable to the american people. After Robert Mueller testifies on wednesday, he will testify to the house intelligence chaired by congressman adam schiff. Most with our busy lives have not had a chance to read the report. We want bob mueller to bring it to life. Who better than the man who did the investigation himself. We want the people to hear it from him and not filtered through bill barr who had a misleading characterization of it, but the man who did the work himself. The typical preparation that the members engage in as a team for a typical hearing is absolutely nothing. In a typical congressional hearing, there is zero coordination with the members of the committee. The members prepare alone with their staff. Not in time. Cnn. Com reports that the republicans on the House Judiciary Committee held a mock mueller hearing last week. If that has ever happened in the history of congressional hearings, i for one am unaware of it as chief of staff in two senate hearings. I never heard of such a thing. Now that the democrats discovered that the republicans had a mock hearing, the democrats plan to hold a twohour mock mueller hearing tomorrow and we are fortunate to be joined by someone who will be at that mock hearing tomorrow and the real hearing on wednesday. Leading off the discussion is Debbie Powell of florida, a member of the house judiciary and White House Correspondent for the pbs news hour and analyst. Leonard pits, jr. For the miami herald is with us tonight. Congresswoman, i never heard of this kind of rehearsal before. Is this the first time they have done this. They havent said, but we didnt decide to get ready because the republicans held a mock hearing. We had discussions about doing that. We have one opportunity inviting special counsel mueller and we have to be prepare and strategic. We prepare on our own. We cant be asking the same questions. Im looking forward to that tomorrow. What are the rules of the hearing as you understand it . Is it possible not every member will get to ask questions . I believe we are all asking questions. We will make sure that everybody has enough time. We have been talking to the chairman and will have an opportunity to question special counsel. What we hear from jerry nadler is he supports impeachment and is treating this as a preliminary procedure to getting to impeachment. Without formally calling it an inquiry, what we are doing is taking this investigation very seriously. Like most of the Congress Must bes that spoke have said, most americans dont have the time to read a 448 page report. We found substantial evidence that shows us that the president obstructed justice. It is critical for the American Public to understand that. Thats why this hearing will be very important on wednesday. Having said that, we will follow the steps that we need to and make that decision after the hearing. Do you support impeachment hearings . I came out to support impeachment inquiry a few weeks ago. Im an immigrant and came from ecuador. I took an oath when i became a citizen on january 3rd when i was elected to represent my community and its to defend and protect the constitution against all foreign and domestic enemies. After seeing the continued obstruction by this president and not allowing us to question fact witnesses Like White House counsel don mcgahn and having different hearings from experts and prosecutors, i realized that my duty was to protect our country. Our democracy. I understand what it is to live under a dictatorship in latin america. I understand and recognize the elements of someone that has grabbed on to power that has corruption in his government. I am extremely worried that people dont understand what could happen if we allow this president to get away with corruption, obstructive acts and all the high crimes and misdemeanors we have in the Mueller Report. He is throwing roadblocks in front of the committee saying that Robert Mueller cannot testify about any deliberations and that means if there was a discussion among Robert Mueller and his associates about the possibility of the president firing them all and Strategic Decisions they might have made, Robert Mueller is not allowed to testify to that according to the Justice Department. Not clear if he has to follow that. As has been clear in many important ways, the United States no longer has a Justice Department. Donald trump has a large personal law firm in washington. Thats emblematic as a nation. We have seen institution after institution subverted. Institutions that are supposed to serve the needs of we the people. We have seen institutions after institutions subverted to the personal needs and narcissim and ego of this one man. The Justice Department comes just one more to bite the dust. One of the things that strike me about the letter to Robert Mueller is it comes at a low level in the Justice Department to go to Robert Mueller. An assistant Deputy Attorney general. Telling him you literally in every sense cannot say a word that does not already appear in the Mueller Report. You cant talk about, for example, why you cant say anything more on the question of why didnt you subpoena President Trump. Thats a decision. He is not allowed to explain a decision like that. Two of the biggest questions i have heard from democrats that they want to answer is why didnt you force donald trump to sit for an interview and you yourself talked to him and asked specific questions and the second one is how did you not make a decision on obstruction of justice and decide you would punt it and where did you want it to go . Did you want it to go to congress or is bill barr right and you punted to the attorney general . Thats the two biggest questions and they dont want him to answer that. A spokesperson said he wanted to stay in the walls of the report and doesnt want to go further than that. Look at his press conference about 10 minutes with no questions see an example of what he wants to bring to the house. That said, they will try to go beyond the report because they want to get the answers for the american people. This is the doj officially telling Robert Mueller you cant answer all the questions we want to know. One of my favorite questions if not my favorite is why didnt you subpoena for testimony President Trump . The Mueller Report address this is and addresses it directly and on a footnote later in the report. They say they were concerned about the costs of potentially lengthy constitutional litigation with resulting delay in finishing our investigation. There was no time limit on this investigation. I dont understand what the delay is that they are talking about. What the time pressure is they were talking about. There is nothing in the report that explains time pleasure. Lawrence, its very clear to me having dealt with some of the counsel representing the administration and the executive branch that the reason why the president was not forced to testify in front of mueller is because they didnt allow him to. The counsel representing the executive must have told or attorney general barr must have said you are not going to get the president to testify. But mueller did not issue a subpoena, which he could have done. Thats his decision and thats not explained in the Mueller Report. That is true. We have enough in the Mueller Report. I know that people have a lot of questions outside of that, but we have 448 poijs that outlines. Volume one, the russia interference. 200 contacts with the Trump Campaign and volume two outlining the 10 instances of obstruction of justice. Personally i think if we can get that information out on wednesday, thats all we need. We dont need to go further. Im confident we can do that. Democrats tell me no one reads the book, but they watch the movie. They want Robert Mueller to be out there and talking to television so people who said that part is over and bill barr set the narrative and everyone thinks President Trump is exonerated, they can listen to muellers own words and be moved some way. Thats what democrats hopes are. Robert mueller will be in an interesting place. There will be questions that go outside that will be questions that normal people want to know. People i talked to around the country, especially democrats who are frustrated by the decision not to make a decision on obstruction of justice and why didnt you make the things. Its going to be an interesting thing if he doesnt go further than the report, thats enough for the people who are frustrated by it. One is intent and did the president intend to obstruct justice. The Mueller Report said they know the answer, but they wont tell us. It appears in the footnote that where mueller is talking about not subpoenaing donald trump and he said we obtained from other sources and other sources allowed us to draw relevant factual conclusions on intent. So mueller has a conclusion on the president s intent, but didnt put it in writing and now apparently the Justice Department is saying you cant tell us the answer to that question. Since when is ignorance an excuse. Maybe im missing something. Since when is ignorance of the law an excuse. Thats one thing, with all due respect to the Mueller Report and the things brought forward there, we have seen the president obstruct justice in realtime before our very eyes. If you dont have the Mueller Report, you have the lester holt interview. To me thats a clear cut im not a lawyer here nor do i play one on tv, but it seemed a clear case of i did this because he was getting too close and i fired james comey because he was close to things i didnt want him to be close to. What more do we need . Its quoted in the Mueller Report and one of the things he was referring to when saying we had other sources,

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