Transcripts For MSNBCW The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

MSNBCW The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell January 11, 2020

Effort is. The fbi is declining to comment. Again, unclear if a formal investigation has been launched, but Bloomberg News says that u. S. Intelligence and Law Enforcement officials are assessing whether there is an active russian disinformation effort to try to scuttle joe bidens president ial chances for 2020. History rhymes. That does it for us tonight. Well see you given on monday. Now its time for the last word with ali. I hope we dont have to pull the tape on this show and say, remember the time that rachel told you about that thing we talk about all the time. Have a great weekend. Thanks, ali. Coming up, the authoritarian president to his claim on he doesnt need to consult congress on actions that could lead the u. S. To war, trumps authoritarian tendencies are on full display. Why that isnt troubling more republicans is becoming a more pressing concern. Michael moore joins us on that. Plus, senator jeff merkley on the crisis with iran. President trumps team is out with another explanation and something isnt adding up. As the focus has been on the two i words this week, impeachment and iran, the administration is still rolling back critical policies while no ones looking. Well explain that too. First its Nancy Pelosis world and we are just living in it. Speaker nancy pelosi has announced that the house of representatives will consider a resolution next week to appoint impeachment managers and transmit the articles of impeachment to the senate. Her announcement in a letter to democratic colleagues came shortly after the house ended its work week without taking a vote on the matter. She said she would consult with colleagues on how to proceed during a House Democratic caucus meeting on tuesday of next week. Now, the letter didnt indicate which day next week the actual vote might occur. Pelosi targeted the end of her letter to the 100 men and women who make up the United States senate writing, quote, in an impeachment trial, every senator takes an oath to do impartial justice according to the constitution and laws. Every senator now faces a choice to be loyal to the president or the constitution. No one is above the law, not even the president. Speaker pelosi said this to reporters shortly after the announcement. Are you satisfied, madame speaker, that there will be a fair trial in the senate . No. What feedback have you gotten from your colleagues . Absolutely total cooperation. It cracks me up to see on tv oh, pressure, pressure that. I have news for them you dont have a story. They dont have a story. All right. So, the stage is starting to be set for the Historic Senate impeachment trial of President Trump. Its been a lot of back and forth over the last couple of weeks about whether Nancy Pelosis strategy of holding the articles of impeachment from the senate has actually worked. Now, if john bolton offering to testify wasnt enough of an indicator that her strategy has produced some results, there is yet a new indication that pelosi has something to show for her efforts thanks to republican senator Susan Collins of maine. Collins spoke with her local paper saying that she is working with what she calls a fairly small group of fellow republican senators, republican senators, toward a goal of ensuring that witnesses can be called in the senate trial. Collins later said to nbc news, quote, i am hopeful that we can reach an agreement on how to proceed with the trial that will allow the opportunity for witnesses for both the house managers and the president s counsel if they choose to do so. It is important that both sides be treated fairly. Theres that both sides thing again. Those efforts stand in stark contrast to the efforts of Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell whos made clear that the senate will move ahead with the trial without any resolution on witnesses. But heres the thing. Mitch mcconnell once sang a very different tune on impeachment witnesses. As congressman adam schiff noted when he tweeted this video from during the clinton impeachment trial. There have been 15 impeachments in the history of this country. Two of them were cut short by resignations and the other 13 impeachments, there were witnesses. Its not unusual to have a witness in a trial. Its certainly not unusual to have a witness in an impeachment trial. The house only asked for three witnesses. I think as pretty modest. In 1999, Mitch Mcconnell was right. According to the executive book writer for citizens and ethics in washington, the senate has heard testimony from witnesses at every trial it has completed in its 231year history. Its anyones guess whether well actually hear from witnesses during the senate trial. But think about john bolton and think about Susan Collins. Would we even be talking about witnesses if nancy pelosi hadnt held those articles back . Would bolton have come forward . Would collins have publicly advocated for witnesses . Would mcconnell have tried to just steam roll this whole process . The momentum seems to be on the side of hearing from witnesses at least for now. And if you see that as a good thing which a majority of this country actually does, according to new polling, then you likely have nancy pelosi to thank for that. Leading up for our discussion tonight is arlena maxwell, senior director of progressive programming at sirius xm radio and msnbc political analyst. And rick wilson, contributor to the daily beast. Hes the author of the book everything trump touches dies welcome to both of you. Thank you for being here. Zerlina maxwell, lets take a look at this. Its been a little over a year since nancy pelosi was the speaker of the house. Since then, it was the shut down at the time. Shes been a thorn in the president s side. Now she is seeming to have achieved some level of success in getting Mitch Mcconnell who two weeks ago said on fox news no witnesses, im hand in glove with the white house on this. We always question Nancy Pelosis strategy until its proven that its the correct strategy at the end. And in hindsight were like she knew what she was doing. I wonder if we can just stop criticizing her in the beginning and wait. Often there is a reason for the tactics shes using. I think this was a strategic pause to allow there to be oxygen on the fact that Mitch Mcconnell is covering up for the white house. Theres additional pieces of information and evidence that have been revealed postvoting on the articles themselves. Yeah. Thats a big deal. And i think that nancy pelosi understood that either the president or the white house would continue to, you know, do things that were wrong and potentially impeachable. They could always have new articles of impeachment and impeach him again. So, i think that shes just trying to have all her options on the table instead of just kowtowing to Mitch Mcconnell. Hes always been seen and all the analysts say hes the tactician. Hes the strategist. Now hes maybe met his match. Its interesting, rick, because that is what people say. This is a guy who counts votes as well as nancy pelosi does and gets things done or in the case of the last few years in Congress Gets nothing done. But in this particular case it felt i remember watching that night he was on fox saying that hes hand in glove with the president thinking to myself, that doesnt seem very strategic of Mitch Mcconnell. It looks like the white house and the republicans may have just shown their hand here. Mitch mcconnell is an extraordinarily gifted strategist when it comes to the ordinary legislative business of the senate. In fact, the ordinary legislative business of the senate, hes the best since lbj and maybe better. Were in an extraordinary moment right now where he understands very well that hes got five or six senators out there right now who are vulnerable in 2020 who are in purple or blue states who are in danger by the fact that the majority of americans, the majority of americans in those states believe there should be an impeachment trial with witnesses in the senate who believe that trump has done something wrong, who believe that trump needs to be held to account, and that the senate process shouldnt be shortcuted and waved away by Mitch Mcconnell. He has that knowledge. Hes in a very difficult position trying to balance dealing with donald trump on the one hand and dealing with the political realities on the other. The minute Mitch Mcconnell senses that his majority is in danger is when he will start rolling back on some of these things. And what were hearing today with look, weve heard from mitt romney that he thinks it would be interesting to hear from witnesses. We know Corey Gardner is thinking about it. Weve heard from Lisa Murkowski and now Susan Collins. So, weve got four people who we know are thinking about it or should be thinking about it given the demographics or Upcoming Elections in their states. Its not surprising. They could lose if they dont appear at least that they have open minds. They have to take an oath of impartiality. Thats a separate oath thats not just for the hell of it. Theyre actually taking an oath, putting their hand up and saying im going to be impartial. They cant fake it. Right. In this particular moment there needs to be a process. The House Republicans said they wanted to hear from more witnesses even if witnesses they called were in front of them not saying things that were favorable to the president but through the entire impeachment hearing process, they complained about there not being enough information, not being enough witnesses, not being enough direct evidence, even though that was in part not true. Okay. Lets get more evidence and more witnesses, why are you opposed to more information and more transparency. Lets say they get three or four senators to say whats it going to have more witnesses, have the trial look more fair, probably be more fair. In the end, do you see anything happening that moves the needle on donald trump being removed from office or acquitted by the senate . At the end of the day you need 2 3 to remove him from office. That is a number that no matter how optimistic your math is right now unless we see eyewitnesses that produce and then they gave rudy a bag of cash to give to trump, until we see something to that level, its still a very high lift to get mcconnells control of his caucus loose enough to get to 2 3. However, i do think that these things tend to have a preference cascade. There may be a point where the evidence starts to accrue. The president s behavior starts to get more and more unhinged, and you see a feeling for mcconnell again, hell change everything. Mitch mcconnell tomorrow would drag donald trump out in the street and gut him like a hog if he thought he would lose his majority. If he thinks his majority is going to go, he would do anything to protect it including throw the president over the edge. Its not there yet in his mind, but it might get there. Zerlina, do you think the effect of a trial with witnesses that is televised that everybody listens to, do you think that starts to move things for Mitch Mcconnell . I think that it allows things to move in the sense that he can at least put himself on the side of looking like hes running a fair process. Right. I do think that he perhaps cares about he didnt seem to two weeks ago. I think in some ways that was a misstep. And then the backlash demonstrated to him that he cannot appear at least on the face not to be doing this in good faith. But i dont think it moves anything towards the 2 3, to ricks point. But that doesnt mean its not necessary to have a completely open and transparent process that includes necessary witnesses so that the American People can go to the ballot box and then vote with all of that information. You know, the senators need more information so they can make informed judgments, but so do the american voters. I think even if the partisans are not going to make the right decisions, the American People can make their own judgments and maybe well have a different, you know, set of senators in the next congress because they have not done in the face of mounting evidence the right thing. Rick, you and i havent spoken since the iran stuff happened a week ago. Thats when it became intense. Do you think it changes any of this discussion that were having around impeachment and President Trump, weakens him or strengthens him . Not at all. I think that he will hes already started to change the subject on his own accord because he has the Attention Span of a gnat. Hes always off on some other tangent, some other vector. As long as the step down continues to hold and iran doesnt take an overt action, i dont think it changes much at all. I think were back to where we were preiran. I think the impeachment doesnt really change whether or not iran is getting sporty in the gulf or not. And i think youre going to see a refocus on this. And trump himself will change the subject away from iran and National Security and back on to the impeachment. Good to talk to both of you. Thanks for kicking it off for us tonight. Coming up, there are more questions than answers about the strike that killed the top iranian general. Those questions are because donald trump has changed his story about the imminent threat that Qassem Soleimani posed three times in the last 48 hours, next. Before nexium 24hr mark could only imagine. A peaceful night sleep without frequent heartburn waking him up. Now that dream is a reality. Nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for allday, allnight protection. Can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn . hey there im lonnie from lonnies lumber. If you need lumber wood, lonnies is better than good. We got oak, cherry, walnut, and more. And we also have the best selection of plywood clattering in the state. 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Greenlight your business in 2020 with fast internet and voice for 64. 90 per month. Switch now and get a 100 prepaid card when you add comcast business securityedge. Call today. Comcast business. Beyond fast. I dont know exactly which minute, we dont know which day it would have been executed, but it was very clear. Qassem soleimani himself was plotting a broad large scale attack against american interests and those attacks were imminent. There are still a lot of questions about the strike that killed the iranian general Qassem Soleimani in baghdad last friday. Mike pompeo says the attacks were imminent though he couldnt say specifically where or when. Pompeo is being asked about that because donald trump has said three Different Things in the last 48 hours. We did it because they were looking to blow up our embassy. He was looking very seriously at our embassies and not just the embassy in baghdad. But we stopped him. I can reveal that i believe it would have been four embassies. Now, some United States senators briefed on the soleimani strike wednesday say specific intelligence about an imminent threat that necessitated taking the life of Qassem Soleimani was not presented in that briefing. Nbcs Peter Alexander then asked mike pompeo about those senators comments today. So, the senators are lying . We told them about the imminent threat, all the intelligence weve briefed that youve heard today i assure you in unclassified setting weve provided in the classified setting as well. To be clear, you told them that embassies were to be targeted, that was the imminent threat . Im not going to talk about the details about what we shared in the classified setting. But make no mistake about it. Those members of congress who want to access the same intelligence, can see the same intelligence that will reflect what i described to you and what the president said. Is that threat now gone with soleimani gone . Threats are never gone. A lot of danger in the world. Joining us now, jeff merkley, democratic senator from oregon. Good to see you. Thank you for joining me. I want to clarify i want to just say again because i know that you know from the senate what you are allowed to say and not allowed to say on television to people like me and our viewers who dont have access to classified information. But, secretary pompeo did say to Peter Alexander both in unclassified and classified settings, we told them about the imminent threats. Now, i have spoken to several members of congress in the last 24 hours who have disputed that. They say they did not leave any briefing, classified or unclassified, with the understanding that the reason for the soleimani assassination was an imminent threat. I put that to you with whatever level of comfort you have in answering me. Do you believe there was an imminent threat that justified the killing of Qassem Soleimani . Well

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